Doesn't This Make US Look Bad?

[4est_4est_Gump]

The ball is in your court now, you, reci, all the people who argued for doing something, anything, after all it is humanitarian!


Now, you need to come up with the answers to the tough questions. You got us involved, we're there, what's next? Further laughter at us or real military action?


What is your answer to Bashir when he decides not to live up to the agreement?

Unbelievably small pinpricks???

 

[unregistered]

 

[Bad_Doggie]

Go to pages one to three of reci's thread and you will see exactly where I stand before it degenerated into A_J's only thought is how to make the President look worse.

I do not think we have ANY business there and I said it clearly and without equivocation.

Now, it is the people who have been backing the brilliant plan and use of force by our President that now have to answer that question. Now, those very same people said YES! when it was Saddam, right before they cut and run.

Am I going to follow that banner into war?

Not a fucking chance...

So we're to take that as a NO you don't support boots on the ground, right?

In which case you have what you want, plus you have possibility of chemical weapons removed from Syria. Sounds like a win to me, perhaps Bush should’ve tried that strategy.

Or did you support boots on the ground in Iraq?
.
Woof!

 

[Bad_Doggie]

You simply do not see that you have put yourself back into the same box that the liberal world view put us into at the end of Desert Storm.

Too squeamish to finish the job, the world-wide Left insisted that we stop at the border and come to some sort of agreement that they could all live with and that Saddam had no intention of ever living up to.

But we had a real reason to take on Saddam; he invaded Kuwait and threatened Saudi Arabia.

Assad has done nothing of the sort!

However, our President drew a line in the sand, and that line has figuratively put us back on the Iraqi border, only this time it is Syria and the ONLY way they are ever going to comply is if we kick in the door and serve then with a search warrant the same way we did with Saddam...

Russia sure as hell isn't going to do it and trust me on this one, with their promise of arms and assistance, unbelievably small pinpricks are not forcing Assad to do anything anywhere any time soon.



Enjoy your victory, for you own the trophy and it is full involvement in Syria now...

When we do nothing (and pinpricks are nothing) we are not going to look one whit stronger or more credible.

You’ve NEVER seen me state that we should have stopped at the boarder after Desert Storm, which isn’t surprising as that’s not what I think/thought.

And you simply don’t see that you as a nation have no right to impose whatever political system suits you on any nation and group of people you choose. You also don’t see that most of the turmoil in the Middle East is a direct consequence of failed US foreign policy over the past 50 odd years and wish to continue repeating the same mistakes over and over again.

The line in the sand has been drawn for getting for 100 years and IS written into international laws. That’s a fact that you continue to avoid. That Obama was one of the few to have the political balls to stand up and say “this is my line too and I will see that it is enforced” is to his credit.

That as part of the political negotiations Chemical weapons should be reduced/removed from the region is a win regardless of who eventually wins. And let’s face it nobody really cares who does. They’re both abhorrent, oppressive regimes and we are not in a position to impose democracy and freedom on anyone, they have to want it and fight for it themselves.

Woof!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

So we're to take that as a NO you don't support boots on the ground, right?

In which case you have what you want, plus you have possibility of chemical weapons removed from Syria. Sounds like a win to me, perhaps Bush should’ve tried that strategy.

Or did you support boots on the ground in Iraq?
.
Woof!

No, I do not have what I wanted.

It is your belief that this will occur, this removal of chemical weapons, and your hope, but this region is known for, if nothing else, the crushing of hope. The very players themselves have created such a cynicism in me that I highly doubt anything will come from this agreement other than embarrassment for the United States and especially the office of the Presidency. Had we elected a man who had had some experience somewhere, anywhere, any time of being held to his words, a plan and a goal, none of this would have happened the the man just gets so pumped up, wound up and full of himself that he thinks he can make magnificent sounding pronouncements that look good in the moment with the belief, fostered by the American Press, that nothing he says can ever come back to haunt him, which is a shame, because Vlad may write for the NY Times, but he certainly does not subscribe to it...

You lay down a red line and you had better have a plan all ready for exactly what you are going to do or you are going to end up looking like a rodeo clown without the bravery and heroism of keeping the cowboy out of harm's way.

Now, with 20-20 vision, I hear a lot of "We Love it when a plan comes together," as if the episode were over and put to bed when, in reality, we have just committed to another long-term Middle East entanglement in which we either strut about impotently as clowns on a stage or we stage another Iraqi intervention, but based on the region's history, I do not see anyone just rolling over and handing over their edge against their enemies.

What I wanted was for them to fight it out and then deal with the winner and deliver humanitarian aid.

Instead, we prolong the fight.

Like Mubarek and Momar, if we had stayed out of those fights, they would have prevailed and we would have gone back tot hat which passes for peace in the region, rag-tag little rat-fuck attacks on each other, the Jews and the Christians.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

"You’ve NEVER seen me state that we should have stopped at the boarder after Desert Storm, which isn’t surprising as that’s not what I think/thought."


Never said you did. I said you were in that same boat...

 

[Bad_Doggie]

I think that that first statement is the niave root of most of America's (and the West in general) that, for the most part, they think just like us.

Who said anything about them “thinking like us?”

What I said was that their main objective is the same as ours; that being to thwart the spread of radical Islam. And this is should be of no surprise to anyone as they’ve been fighting it longer than we have in the west. They the US was supporting and funding the mujahedeen that led to the eventual rise and spread of radical Islam is just more evidence of another failed US foreign policy.

Russia could give a shit if they gas each other, civilians, the west or even Russia, in fact, a small (staged) gas attack might be the very thing they need to get the tank columns rolling again.

Nope Russia couldn’t give a shit about a gas attack so long as it is against a foe (radical Islam).

Oh noooo’s Russian tanks to start rolling again…..have yours ever stopped?

We cannot defeat the radicals. They cannot directly defeat us, for they are divided and we are divided and for the most part, the West is at war with itself between extreme Liberalism and the Libertarian mindset that many of us have about not wanting the Leftist-leaning state to be our nannies.

You keep telling yourself that, outside of the US the Libertarian mind set is all but dead and it on life support in the US.

If you think the Russians have just accepted that the Cold War is over and that they are leaving it behind them, then I do not think that we will ever agree on anything, because from the Vikings to Dostoevsky, that sure doesn't sound like the Mother Russia I have come to understand.

That we don’t agree should be of no surprise to either of us. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t make for interesting conversation or exchange of ideas….so long as you’re reasonable about it and keep away from propaganda barrages.

Woof!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

"You keep telling yourself that, outside of the US the Libertarian mind set is all but dead and it on life support in the US."


It is growing.

 

[Busybody]

wanna see RACISM?

here is RACISM

http://cdn.pjmedia.com/tatler/files/2013/09/time-9162013.jpg

 

[Busybody]

protecting THE NIGGER al all costs

 

[Bad_Doggie]

No, I do not have what I wanted.

It is your belief that this will occur, this removal of chemical weapons, and your hope, but this region is known for, if nothing else, the crushing of hope. The very players themselves have created such a cynicism in me that I highly doubt anything will come from this agreement other than embarrassment for the United States and especially the office of the Presidency. Had we elected a man who had had some experience somewhere, anywhere, any time of being held to his words, a plan and a goal, none of this would have happened the the man just gets so pumped up, wound up and full of himself that he thinks he can make magnificent sounding pronouncements that look good in the moment with the belief, fostered by the American Press, that nothing he says can ever come back to haunt him, which is a shame, because Vlad may write for the NY Times, but he certainly does not subscribe to it...

I guess you guys believe the previous incumbent had “some experience somewhere, anywhere, any time of being held to his words, a plan and a goal, …etc etc” in which case you have to explain the cluster fuck that was and STILL is Iraq. The cost in lives and the financial cost that has pushed you, as a country, to the brink.

You lay down a red line and you had better have a plan all ready for exactly what you are going to do or you are going to end up looking like a rodeo clown without the bravery and heroism of keeping the cowboy out of harm's way.

An odd thing has happened; I agree with that completely and think I posted such in Reci’s thread.

Now, with 20-20 vision, I hear a lot of "We Love it when a plan comes together," as if the episode were over and put to bed when, in reality, we have just committed to another long-term Middle East entanglement in which we either strut about impotently as clowns on a stage or we stage another Iraqi intervention, but based on the region's history, I do not see anyone just rolling over and handing over their edge against their enemies.

I don’t think the plan has “come together,” I don’t think it possible to have a grand plan. The situation is such that you have to act and re-act to the fast changing situation on the ground. The thing is to have a long term objective and that objective has been clearly stated; no use of illegal weapons and if possible the removal of those weapons.

What I wanted was for them to fight it out and then deal with the winner and deliver humanitarian aid.

Who or what is stopping that scenario now?

All that has happened is that international laws have been shown to mean something and that tin pot regime’s better stay with-in those laws or they will be held accountable. I dunno what message you think would be sent to the likes of North Korea, Iran etc if the International community did nothing.

Tell me what’s the point of having International Laws if no one enforces them?

Like Mubarek and Momar, if we had stayed out of those fights, they would have prevailed and we would have gone back tot hat which passes for peace in the region, rag-tag little rat-fuck attacks on each other, the Jews and the Christians.

Again, what is now stopping that scenario taking place?

Woof!

 

[Bad_Doggie]

"You keep telling yourself that, outside of the US the Libertarian mind set is all but dead and it on life support in the US."


It is growing.

That's exactly what LN said of the truth movement along with links 'n' things.

We're still waiting.

Woof!

 

[Beco]

I guess you guys believe the previous incumbent had “some experience somewhere, anywhere, any time of being held to his words, a plan and a goal, …etc etc” in which case you have to explain the cluster fuck that was and STILL is Iraq. The cost in lives and the financial cost that has pushed you, as a country, to the brink.

Bush again....most of us live in the present.....can we just discuss current events without comparing to the past? If only....

 

[Beco]

protecting THE NIGGER al all costs

Syrian minister calls chemical weapons deal a Russian-won 'victory' over U.S.

 

[Recidiva]

Syrian minister calls chemical weapons deal a Russian-won 'victory' over U.S.

And I could say that Putin is a mango scone.

 

[Bad_Doggie]

Bush again....most of us live in the present.....can we just discuss current events without comparing to the past? If only....

You might have a point IF the past didn’t impact on, and form, the present. But, seeing as there is an objective reality that shows us that it does-you don’t.

Why would anyone object to commenting on the past; unless it’s because it shows your failures and hypocrisy?

Woof!

 

[Bad_Doggie]

Syrian minister calls chemical weapons deal a Russian-won 'victory' over U.S.

Hoorah for the Russians and the Syrians; better anyone, than seeing America succeed, eh?

One wonders, though, if this would've come about if it were not for Obama putting the gun on the table. WhatDaYa fink?

Woof!

 

[BotanyBoy]

The American military has killed more people than any country in the world and they continue.

Someone has to do it....

People watching the evening news in the United States enjoy when their troops overseas shoot and kill people in that foreign country.

https://www.peaceproject.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/product_full/s70_join_the_army_travel_to_exotic_distant_lands_meet_exciting_unusual_people_and_kill_them_sticker_0.png

Let's face it.

Americans love watching our military shoot and bomb innocent people on prime time television news.

Define innocent....if they so much as point a sharp stick at me or cop a tude....they are a hostile threat. You know what we do to hostile threats?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5c/Metallica_-_Kill_'Em_All_cover.jpg

For you that don't know, those people shot by American soldiers have family and friends.

Most people shot do...

They are protecting their homeland from invaders from a foreign country.

They should do a better job, then they won't have to worry about shit like that....like Americans.

Americans are the invaders.

You're free to try and kick our ass...but we got like 20 years on everyone else in production alone....and 1-2 generations ahead on technology.....good luck!!

 

[BotanyBoy]

http://cdn.pjmedia.com/tatler/files/2013/09/time-9162013.jpg

That's pretty telling......

 

[Beco]

You might have a point IF the past didn’t impact on, and form, the present. But, seeing as there is an objective reality that shows us that it does-you don’t.

Why would anyone object to commenting on the past; unless it’s because it shows your failures and hypocrisy?

Woof!

Sure, if it's used in that context, but its usually meant as a defense to an argument on what has recently transpired. Well, Obmama did this, but so did Bush!!! Can't we just discuss what just happened with regards to Syria instead of comparing it to the Bush administration? So much happened in Washington over the last two weeks, a game of cat and mouse, we were ready to drop bombs on a country, surely, that warrants a discussion without going back 5 years, again and again.....

 

[Beco]

Hoorah for the Russians and the Syrians; better anyone, than seeing America succeed, eh?

One wonders, though, if this would've come about if it were not for Obama putting the gun on the table. WhatDaYa fink?

Woof!

If that was a bluff....I think it worked. So far.....but the war rages on, thats the big picture that nobody is really talking about. That discussion has taken a back seat

 

[Busybody]

http://cdn.pjmedia.com/tatler/files/2013/09/time-9162013.jpg

That's pretty telling......

same old

same old

 

[Wrong Element]

Meh. You know what frightens allies? Looking strong and incompetent. They've had enough of the bull in the china shop.

You know, we had a recent president who cared about nothing more than seeming "strong." A lot of good it did us.

Whatever else one might think about Obama, he clearly doesn't give two shits about satisfying the "strength" demands of the same Washington press corps that creamed over President Flightsuit.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You know, we had a recent president who cared about nothing more than seeming "strong." A lot of good it did us.

It gave the left a reason to do the exact same thing they spit on others for and still keep their nose up high.

Whatever else one might think about Obama, he clearly doesn't give two shits about satisfying the "strength" demands of the same Washington press corps that creamed over President Flightsuit.

LOL......fling anything for O wont you?

I'll add you to the list of LWCJ fuckers who would esplain away that guy fucking the family dog on the WH front lawn if they had too....not to mention being Bush 3.0.

 

[Bad_Doggie]

Sure, if it's used in that context, but its usually meant as a defense to an argument on what has recently transpired. Well, Obmama did this, but so did Bush!!! Can't we just discuss what just happened with regards to Syria instead of comparing it to the Bush administration? So much happened in Washington over the last two weeks, a game of cat and mouse, we were ready to drop bombs on a country, surely, that warrants a discussion without going back 5 years, again and again.....

When discussing a topic you end up faced with this degree of hypocrisy………….

No, I do not have what I wanted.

(snip).......other than embarrassment for the United States and especially the office of the Presidency. Had we elected a man who had had some experience somewhere, anywhere, any time of being held to his words, a plan and a goal, none of this would have happened the the man just gets so pumped up, wound up and full of himself that he thinks he can make magnificent sounding pronouncements that look good in the moment with the belief, fostered by the American Press, that nothing he says can ever come back to haunt him, which is a shame, because Vlad may write for the NY Times, but he certainly does not subscribe to it...

What else is there to do than underline it as such?

Ya know it’s one of the, funniest things to me, when you guys discuss the US economy and cry, shriek and holler how bad it’s been during the whole of Obama administration.

But, if anyone dare mention how bad things actually were on his inauguration day minus one that is completely inadmissible. It’s almost as if the previous 8 years have been erased and the US economy, banking and manufacturing sectors weren’t on the edge of total collapse on Obama’s inauguration day. All of those failures can only be placed at the door of the Bush administration. And so when viewed against this background the economic performance over the past 5 years (whilst not great) is actually not bad at all.

Refusing to acknowledge these facts and then discussing the economic performance of the Obama administration over the last 5 years is about as intellectually dishonest as it gets.

Woof!