Did government officials know that the attacks on Pearl Harbor were coming?

[blobfish]

Some say that officials within the Roosevelt administration knew about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance, but allowed it to happen so that the United States could become directly involved in the war.

 

[renard_ruse]

Some say that officials within the Roosevelt administration knew about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance, but allowed it to happen so that the United States could become directly involved in the war.

Yes, that's my belief.

Have they made it illegal yet to say you believe that?

 

[Ham Murabi]

You ask the average politician today and I'll bet most will tell you Pearl Harbor Day is Dec. 7.
No question it's some kind of conspiracy. I just hope someone tells the Navy.

 

[Recidiva]

Yes, from the history I've read and seen, there were warnings and the people in charge of relaying the warnings and taking action didn't do so.

But it wasn't done out of malice, I think things like that get done out of laziness and not being willing to accept it as a credible threat and therefore not acting on the warning. I don't think you can accuse anyone of letting it happen in a conspiracy sense, just that it happened and in retrospect there was enough information available that if acted on, would have saved lives.

 

[blobfish]

Yes, from the history I've read and seen, there were warnings and the people in charge of relaying the warnings and taking action didn't do so.

But it wasn't done out of malice, I think things like that get done out of laziness and not being willing to accept it as a credible threat and therefore not acting on the warning. I don't think you can accuse anyone of letting it happen in a conspiracy sense, just that it happened and in retrospect there was enough information available that if acted on, would have saved lives.

I don't know that it wasn't done intentionally, and I'm not sure that it would be a bad thing if it was. The U.S. needed to get into the war, and the martyrs that died at Pearl Harbor allowed that to happen.

 

[Recidiva]

I don't know that it wasn't done intentionally, and I'm not sure that it would be a bad thing if it was. The U.S. needed to get into the war, and the martyrs that died at Pearl Harbor allowed that to happen.

Sorry, I don't buy any conspiracy. Do some research. It's pretty well documented by many sources.

As interesting as it might sound to create conspiracies out of...no facts whatsoever...the real fact is that a conspiracy of that magnitude is nearly impossible. People can't keep secrets very well. There's a trail of information being delivered and reasonable but tragic choices being made on the basis of that information.

 

[bra_man69]

Thinking when the island of Alaska got attacked before Pearl Harbor might of tipped them off

Go back and read about what was going on inside Japan's military might give you some insight a lot of jealous between there army and navy.

 

[blobfish]

Sorry, I don't buy any conspiracy. Do some research. It's pretty well documented by many sources.

As interesting as it might sound to create conspiracies out of...no facts whatsoever...the real fact is that a conspiracy of that magnitude is nearly impossible. People can't keep secrets very well. There's a trail of information being delivered and reasonable but tragic choices being made on the basis of that information.

I'm not saying that it did happen that way, just that it could have. I don't have an opinion either way.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Some say that officials within the Roosevelt administration knew about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance, but allowed it to happen so that the United States could become directly involved in the war.

That's bullshit.

 

[Phelia]

If I recall correctly, radar was so new at the time that unfamiliarity with the technology caused officials to all but ignore the onslaught of planes headed their way. I don't think it's part of a cover up. They knew it was coming and did very little to try and mitigate the damage. That doesn't strike me as very tactically sound.

Wild to think about it. Humanity finally invents the technology to detect that kind of threat and then refuses to believe when it warns of danger.

 

[blobfish]

That's bullshit.

Yeah, I'm not going to take anything from that website seriously. That's like quoting Conservapedia for information on evolution.

 

[DevilishTexan]

Of course. Only surprise the Japs ever made was buying up half of our land before anyone noticed. Then reselling it to the Chinese to pay off their clusterfuck dept from the 80's.

 

[blobfish]

Wild to think about it. Humanity finally invents the technology to detect that kind of threat and then refuses to believe when it warns of danger.

Which makes the conspiracy theories seem possible. Everyone knew that Japan was sweeping across the Pacific, and that the Philippines was on the top of their list. As they were essentially a U.S. possession at that time, they would naturally want to mitigate the threat that the Navy posed to their invasion plans. Any military strategists would have been insane to disregard that threat.

 

[phrodeau]

Japanese government officials knew about it. I'll bet the Germans and Italians knew it was coming, too.

 

[DevilishTexan]

Which makes the conspiracy theories seem possible. Everyone knew that Japan was sweeping across the Pacific, and that the Philippines was on the top of their list. As they were essentially a U.S. possession at that time, they would naturally want to mitigate the threat that the Navy posed to their invasion plans. Any military strategists would have been insane to disregard that threat.

Roosevelt was looking for an excuse.

The Bulldog: "Yeah, sorry bro but a buncha tin cans ain't cuttin' the proverbial mustard. We need boots on ground."

 

[blobfish]

Roosevelt was looking for an excuse.

The Bulldog: "Yeah, sorry bro but a buncha tin cans ain't cuttin' the proverbial mustard. We need boots on ground."

Yeah, military aid is no substitute for the full force of the American armed forces.

 

[DevilishTexan]

Yeah, military aid is no substitute for the full force of the American armed forces.

Well plus wars tend to weed out the "undesirables" ya know.

 

[fuckwaffle]

Yes, from the history I've read and seen, there were warnings and the people in charge of relaying the warnings and taking action didn't do so.

But it wasn't done out of malice, I think things like that get done out of laziness and not being willing to accept it as a credible threat and therefore not acting on the warning. I don't think you can accuse anyone of letting it happen in a conspiracy sense, just that it happened and in retrospect there was enough information available that if acted on, would have saved lives.

And don't forget, back then they didn't have the communication options we have today. The most sophisticated form of long distance communication was Western Union Telegraph and not to reliable Military radios. Some times messages took days to get to the intended person(s).

 

[blobfish]

Well plus wars tend to weed out the "undesirables" ya know.

Yeah, like the fascists. The war didn't do much to nip them commies in the bud, though.

 

[Kruge]

Some say that officials within the Roosevelt administration knew about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance, but allowed it to happen so that the United States could become directly involved in the war.

Very likely the US Government knew an attack was coming....or at least extremely likely. Japan was backed into a corner with it's oil supplies cut off and it was only a matter of time before they did something.

It is less likely, however, that the US Govt thought the attack would come at Pearl Harbor. Most of the military minds of the time where still stuck in the thought process of the battleship being the backbone of the Navy and the idea of putting the battleship fleet in a postion of being attacked seems unlikely to me.

I suspect that the popular belief was a Japanese first strike attack on far eastern bases.

 

[Phelia]

Which makes the conspiracy theories seem possible. Everyone knew that Japan was sweeping across the Pacific, and that the Philippines was on the top of their list. As they were essentially a U.S. possession at that time, they would naturally want to mitigate the threat that the Navy posed to their invasion plans. Any military strategists would have been insane to disregard that threat.

Hmm, I am a little confused by this, so please forgive and correct me if I am misreading you (my brain is covered in wine-fog, so it is likely).

If the US knew, why wouldn't they try and defend themselves, at all? Japan still would've attacked and entering WWII still would have been justified. Everyone at Pearl Harbor was taken completely by surprise.

It's not that a threat was disregarded, it's that it wasn't recognized as a threat. If a brand new technology detects something incredible, it's not unreasonable to think it might be a glitch or malfunction. That, plus a little miscommunication made for a national tragedy.

I'd never heard this conspiracy theory before. I wonder how widespread it is. I'm surprised by it - it doesn't strike me as even remotely plausible (but I guess that's kind of the point of conspiracy theories).

 

[DevilishTexan]

Yeah, like the fascists. The war didn't do much to nip them commies in the bud, though.

Russia is an entirely different animal that doesn't tend to subscribe to Western laws, beliefs or cons.

 

[Wrong Element]

Which makes the conspiracy theories seem possible. Everyone knew that Japan was sweeping across the Pacific, and that the Philippines was on the top of their list. As they were essentially a U.S. possession at that time, they would naturally want to mitigate the threat that the Navy posed to their invasion plans. Any military strategists would have been insane to disregard that threat.

There was concern about an attack on the Philippines, but I don't think anyone in the War Department or anywhere else in Washington believed that the Japanese could pull off a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.

The notion that people knew it was coming but let it happen as a pretext for going to war makes little sense. Leaving aside the loss of life, Pearl Harbor was an almost complete disaster for the Navy. American interests in the Pacific were defenseless for months.

Of course, part of the reason the Japanese threat was underestimated was the plain fact that attacking the U.S. was slow-motion suicide for them, something Yamamoto understood even as he loyally laid the groundwork for Pearl Harbor. Their wins were few and far between after the spring of 1942.

 

[blobfish]

Hmm, I am a little confused by this, so please forgive and correct me if I am misreading you (my brain is covered in wine-fog, so it is likely).

If the US knew, why wouldn't they try and defend themselves, at all? Japan still would've attacked and entering WWII still would have been justified. Everyone at Pearl Harbor was taken completely by surprise.

It's not that a threat was disregarded, it's that it wasn't recognized as a threat. If a brand new technology detects something incredible, it's not unreasonable to think it might be a glitch or malfunction. That, plus a little miscommunication made for a national tragedy.

I'd never heard this conspiracy theory before. I wonder how widespread it is. I'm surprised by it - it doesn't strike me as even remotely plausible (but I guess that's kind of the point of conspiracy theories).

Well, the theory is that the attacks were used as a catalyst for war. The nature of the bombing (surprise attack) contributed to the national outrage that prompted Congress to declare war on the Axis powers. The Gulf of Tonkin incident is similar, though that "attack" was completely fabricated.

 

[njlauren]

The conspiracy theory (I have heard ones that Churchill knew because the British had broken the German codes and the Japanese invasion was mentioned.......among other thing, the only problem with that is the British only had German navy messages, and they only broke a percentage of them, they never broke the German diplomatic codes). Another theory which has some sprinkling of truth to it was the US had broken the Japanese codes and knew it was coming, problem was as of December, 1941 they hadn't broken any significant codes. Yeah, I have heard the arguments about the carriers being at sea, how that proved they knew, but they easily could have come up with an excuse to move the regular fleet out without tipping the japanese off, likewise they could have had the planes and their crews ready, instead of sitting wingtip to wingtip ready to be destroyed. The coventry argument doesn't hold (where the brits knew coventry was going to be hit with V2's but couldn't do anything), the navy had choices had they really believed an attack was coming.

I think most people knew war was inevitable but the military is not different then any other large organization, there is a lot of disbelief there, a lot of 'the US is not at war we are neutral, there is no reason to attack us", as well as more then a bit of racism, who are a bunch of short, bandy legged guys wearing coke bottle glasses going to take on the US? (and yes, those views were expressed, which is kind of ironic, given that by December, 1941 our military was still very, very weak).

More importantly, if they knew they could have protected the fleet and then had their excuse when the Japanese did attack, to lose a good part of our Pacific fleet when there would have been war anyway doesn't make any sense..and despite a cottage industry of books and such, no one has ever presented evidence that backs this up, it is typical conspiracy theory stuff, great for selling books. It doesn't surprise me this is coming a lot of the time from the nutty right wing, who almost 70 years after the man's death want to beat up on FDR and find any dirt they can levy....it also might be an attempt to divert attention from another fact, that the prime movement to keep the US out of the second world war , the America First movement, was mostly made up of middle america conservatives, like Vandendberg and Taft (and several conservative politicians, even after Pearl Harbor, declared that the US should not get involved in WWII, saying pearl harbor was a mistake or that the administration "baited" the japanese into attacking pearl harbor because he wanted the US in WWII......to their credit, after Pearl harbor the America First mentality was disavowed by most, especially after its pro Nazi underpinnings came to light.