Deportation without chance to plead case in court

[SensualMale]

...

...yet, some fucking orange picker can just pay a couple hundred of his bucks and a goat and be smuggled over here and get on welfare.

I support the Border Patrol, and I support our government...I suggest you shit or get off the pot.

It's not the fucking orange picker, but it's the fucking smuggler and then the fucking contractor that need to be booted so smuggling can go down or stop altogether.

I don't do drugs

 

[SensualMale]

...

You are implying that the border patrol just up and gathers whomever they deem unworthy, that isn't so. Your misleading comments in regard to the government agencies is dangerous to say the least. Imagine if someone actually believed what you are saying.

If you are wanting to right a wrong in the US, write your congressmen, hell, become one! Run for President! Doing it on a porn board isn't bringing about change...at all.

The INS has done that before. And with legal folks. Didn't you say you worked for the INS?

Why are you so upset about it? It's just a porn board!

 

[SensualMale]

Can I have one?!

That must be really scary living there.

I sure don't like visiting Miami, I don't think you could get me to consider going to CA. The people in Miami are not very friendly, they really hate white people! One told me I needed to learn to speak Spanish. They were really nasty about it too. WTF I am tourist.

CA: You probably wont find a more diverse state in terms of its people, except maybe for NY and FL. But then, a lot of people cannot deal with that diversity, for various reasons

 

[SensualMale]

Actually it is the total opposite...The europeans came in here, too over your lands and pushed you out....we are trying to prevent the same thing from happening to our country again....apparently you did not learn much from having foreigners come in and do those things to your people

Gee whiz! How convenient

 

[SensualMale]

I should have added the word "illegal" to that statement I suppose....and it wasn't meant to make the one word sound derogatory....and my apologies if it did...and let me say again, I have no problem with people of any country coming here ...following the proper procedures, of course...insted of paying some smuggler to sneak them in..

How about nailing the smuggler(s) to begin with? I don't see many comments on that; just rants about the undocumented people No wonder the problem persists.

 

[bg23]

*bump*

I will comment to this thread, later, i promise.

Thought I'd give it a bump for the sake of fun.

Must go have dinner now. We're having roast beef, isn't that lovely?

Cheers!

 

[AStranger2004]

I disagree AS....last I heard...Holland and Germany are even closing their doors to foreigners, by making it more difficult to come over, because they are being overrun by illegals.

I'm not sure we're on the same page, Bent.

In a great many countries (Holland and UK included) immigration controls are being tightened. My point was that where this occurs it is for political rather than economic reasons. Both Holland and the UK have recently had big surges of electoral support for neo-fascist parties. Governments react by trying to undermine support for those parties by tightening immigration controls. At the same time the mass-media talk up the supposed problems of illegals "flooding" this country or that.

Its a game, and it has very little to do with economics. As I said previously, those economies that have historically allowed large-scale immigration have done very well.

 

[showuoff]

I've seen the customs folks be pretty tough at times here at the US/ Canadian border and to their own country's people.

I also know that not ALL customs agents are not created equal but God forbid I come up on one that is less knowlegable on asylum law if that's what I seek.

Judge & jury all in one booth- scary thought indeed.

It's scarier than that. Not just judge and jury, but policeman, prosecutor, judge and jury all wrapped up in one poorly trained and relatively uneducated booth person.

If people like Lady G and RJohns86 think this is fine, I wonder if they would want to try this on for size: We will train business owners in commercial law. Then if they believe you owe them money and you don't have a credible complaint about their product, they can decide with no appeal to take the money you owe out of your bank account directly or sell your assets to get the money. No independent review.

Or how about this? We train store owners in shop lifting law. The following is a true story. You walk into the store wearing a pair of shoes you bought there last week. On the bottom of one of the shoes is the size tag glued on by the store. The store sees the size tag as you walk up some stairs and stops you for having shop lifted the shoes. They decide on their own that your story that you did not see the size tag pasted on the sole is not credible. And they decide that the soles of the shoes, although dirty, are only dirty enough to be consistent with walking around the store. That they did not see you take shoes or remove the price tags doesn't matter to them. They stop you, and arrest and take the $200 pair of shoes away.

In the real situation, the police came, they arrested the shoe wearer at the store's request, the shoes were impounded as evidence, and the alleged shoplifter was released the next day. He went home, and prepared his case by getting the purchase receipt for the shoes. He showed the receipt in court, and the case was dismissed. He got his shoes back the same day. He retained a lawyer to sue the department store for false arrest, and they settled, thereby compensating him for the damages the store caused.

In Bush's World, the store would be able to take the shoes on the spot, and then decide, without review, that you are guilty because they say so. They convict you, and sentence you on the spot to one year in jail for petit larceny. You have no chance to go home and get the receipt. The store owners decide that your claim to have a receipt is not credible for no partiuclar reason except they don't ever believe those they think are shoplifters.

IF you have someone at home to retrieve the receipt for you, and IF you have $5000 to hire a lawyer, you can perhaps start a court case on your own to allow you to be released from prison. But if you have no one at home to retrieve the receipt or you don't have the money for a lawyer to take a Writ of Habeas Corpus, you must sit in jail for the year. When you get out, the receipt is gone. In fact, the apartment you rented and all your belongings in it are gone. Even if you had the receipt, the store long ago disposed of the shoes so you could not match them to the receipt. You were held in jail for one year, with no appeal and no review on the say so of a store owner that was mistaken, and that ends it.

Lady G. would decide that is all not just fine but actually desirable. We need to stop shop lifters, she would argue, and therefore everyone should carry all the receipts for anything they wear or carry into any store at all times. She would see no problem. The fact that even if you carry all those receipts, the store could still invalidly decide that the receipt belonged to a different pair of shoes doesn't bother her one iota.

People like Lady G and RJohns86 are an object lesson in why police states and dictatorships are able to exist. Some people are simply not smart enough to prevent the taking of their own freedoms, and sometimes will, like Lady G and RJohns86, even argue in favor of the taking of those freedoms.

When the police officer is also the prosecutor, the finder of facts, and the person who metes out the sentence, that is, by definition, what is meant by the term "Police State."

 

[showuoff]

Hey, you Indians had a terrible immigration policy...and look where the tribes ended up living, for the most part!

The Indians didn't have a terrible immigration policy. They simply had inferior weapons. The Europenas didn't immigrate here, they came to conquer and succeeded. That you can't see the difference is mind boggling. Are you really that ignorant of our history?

 

[LadyG]

I so love when idiots take what I say out of context.

Carry on.

 

[Guest]

 

[LadyG]

umm... you were saying?

I was saying good morning, sweetie

 

[Guest]

 

[showuoff]

Do illegal immigrants have any of the rights afforded to the people of the United States? No. They have rights as humans, period...legally speaking, they have none.

And I WORKED for the INS.

You worked for the INS and you believe immigrants have no rights? That's the best argument I've heard yet for not allowing INS employees to make on the spot legal decisions.

First off, the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service gives immigrants all sorts of rights. The first is to have a fair hearing before an Immigration Law judge before being declared illegal. While that is going on they have the right to post a bond in many cases. They have the right to medical care and to be safe in their persons while within our borders. They have the right to claim asylum, and have that claim reviewed by knowledgeable people. They have a right to have a denial further reviewed by immigration law judges and thereafter by our courts. They have periodically been given the right to remain here and obtain a gree card based on the period of time they have lived here as an illegal. While they are within our borders, we have traditionally applied to all immigrants freedom of speech, freedom of worship.

The only right which immigrants do not traditionally have is the right to stay here without permission or legal exception to that permission. But who is to decide if they are here without permission or without exception? The immigrant currently has the right to have the issue decided by an allegedly impartial judge, and have the decision reviewed in the Courts. He has the right to prove that he has been given permission, or falls within an exception that entitles him to permission. Can the border patrol decide on the spot whether the undocumented alien is actually documented, or whether he fits any of the exceptions to documentation? How does the border patrol person, with no fair hearing, determine how many years the illegal has been here?

 

[Guest]

It's not terribly scary. My area is still not crime city but the worry is there for the future. People are very nice here in California.
We love the state and we want it to be safe and inviting. I have heard Miami is pretty scary at night.

Here you go!! Wave on! http://www.homestead.com/best2win/files/FLAGS1.jpg

I'm sure lots of urban areas are scary, especially at night. But I think that has a heck of a lot more to do with being a city than it does with the color/nationity/ethnicity of the residents.

What I'm getting at here is that most urban areas have high crime, and that crime rate goes up as people become more densely packed together. I wouldn't blame it on ethnicity.

I'm sure people already here tried to say that Irish sections of cities were dangerous and bad and such, and pinned it on the ethnicity of the Irish (the newest immigrants at that time) too. Just like people are scared of black neighborhoods, etc. It's not the color of the skin, it's not the ethnicity that makes a place a high crime area. It's the levels of population and poverty. Poor people get desperate. People living in crowded conditions get a bit looney (check out NYC as an example). I insist it's not the ethnicity.

 

[Guest]

What Cherries mentioned about English becoming the second language...anyone that drives through California can see by all the SPANISH FUCKING BILLBOARDS that this is absolutely true! When I go to the store, I get spoken to IN SPANISH...what the fuck...you should see me go off...it's fucking hilarious to see their jaws drop.

*end moment*

Nothing says that people can't put things in Spanish. And that is because we don't have an officially declared national language. It's been assumed that we would do everything in English, but it's never been made our official language. A lot of countries DO have a specified national language. We don't. So anyone here is free to use any language they wish.

 

[Guest]

No, you are an example of why we shouldn't open our borders to every foreigner who wants to come in..

Um, I'm Native American.. You know, as in the people who were here before any of the colonists/immigrants came. My people have ALWAYS been here, so don't you even dare to imply that I shouldn't be here.

YOU are here, and YOUR ancestors came from somewhere else. And now you would deny others the chance to come? Hypocrite.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

Actually it is the total opposite...The europeans came in here, too over your lands and pushed you out....we are trying to prevent the same thing from happening to our country again....apparently you did not learn much from having foreigners come in and do those things to your people

Apprently YOUR ancestors, who were total fucking assholes, STILL haven't learned anything because your people are STILL be total fucking assholes about this land.

Yeah, blame the Native Americans for being civil. That's a good one. Blame us for the genocide and isolationist tactics your ancestors used on us. And then use that as an excuse for why you should continue to be assholes. That washes real well, huh?

 

[Guest]

I should have added the word "illegal" to that statement I suppose....and it wasn't meant to make the one word sound derogatory....and my apologies if it did...and let me say again, I have no problem with people of any country coming here ...following the proper procedures, of course...insted of paying some smuggler to sneak them in..

But you're missing the point: we need workers, and the people willing to come here and take those jobs have no access to the type of things they need in order to come here legally. THAT is the problem.

 

[Guest]

They have no rights, as we have no rights in their country. I had no rights in the countries I lived in overseas until I became legal in that country. Scary or not, that's life.

Um, I'll say this. A HUMAN BEING is still a human being, regardless of nationality or legal status.

When I lived in Mexico no one treated me like a piece of shit because I was a foreigner. I was able to access health care even though I was a foreigner, I was treated kindly, I was able to enter government offices, use any sort of health facility, go into banks and make transactions (and yes, even without having any account in Mexico), use libraries, etc, all without "having any rights" (as you put it) simply because I'm a human being, and even though I had U.S. identification I was still allowed to do these things, and without being hassled.

 

[Guest]

Obviously, neither am I No one here wishes these people harm, however they know the consequences, and yet they still choose to do what they do, and if they get hurt in the process, you can't blame our country for that.

I don't get how someone can say they are dirt assed poor in Mexico, yet can somehow come up with 'thousands' of US dollars to be smuggled over in droves. It just doesn't calculate.

They don't come up with all the money. The way it works is that you pay a coyote part of the fee in advance. Then he does his job. And should you live you then owe him the rest of the fee, which you pay off by working here and saving up money as best you can. If you can't pay off the fee someone comes to "find you" (and you can imagine the various sorts of things that happen). The coyotes know where you are, because they are most often paid to send you or take you personally to your final destination in the U.S., even if that is all the way in Maine. The farther they take you, the higher the fee.

Most often people borrow money from friends and relatives who have recently returned from working in the U.S. in order to pay that initial fee to the coyotes. So then they not only must work off the rest of the fee owed to the coyotes, but they must also save to pay back their friend/relative. Or if they can't manage that, they are expected to return the favor to the friend/relative in some other way once they return to Mexico.

 

[Guest]

No one, other than the people smuggling the illegals over are abusing them...if they are...where is the proof?

Bent, check the farm labor camps. Have you ever seen one of these places? Check the people working in the farm fields, who are rushed in to pick crops before the wait time for pesticide spraying has expired. Check the ones who get sprayed WHILE in the fields (which is against the law). Check the ones whose produce companies write up contracts with them, but won't write up LEGAL contracts with them for employment. Check out the crew leaders of labor camps, who are U.S. citizens, who pocket money out of the workers' pay, charge them money to take them to grocery stores, the laundromat and health facilities (although this last one doesn't happen often because the crew leaders don't want doctors to see the kind of shit that happens to their workers, lest they get in trouble). Check out the forced prostitution, the way the people have taxes automatically deducted from their pay which they can never reclaim, even though they're too poor to have to pay them. Take a look at the working conditions, the insane working hours, the lack of legally mandated bathrooms and drinking water for them when they're working in the fields under the sun. Go into one of those camps and take a look at people, and you'll see hard, physical evidence of the exploitation.

Again, the U.S. PROFITS off of illegal workers. And believe me, people don't risk their lives and health just to come here and NOT work. They come here for the purpose of working. And if they had the money to stay in Mexico, if they had a job that paid them enough to survive in Mexico they would NOT come here to risk their life and health, in a strange land with which they're unfamiliar, living in fear of deportation, being exploited, and living under poor conditions. Do you think they come here because they think it's an easy ride???? They know they're going to be treated like shit here, but they come because they have to survive. They don't come for the purpose of "overrunning" the country here, or for taking over, or for the fun of it. Their lives are extremely difficult, and made moreso by coming here (assuming they don't die on the way here, or after arriving).

 

[LadyG]

*yawn*

Are you the energizer bunny??

http://www.adage.com/century/graphics/icon_bunny.jpg

 

[Guest]

Define native American. You mean of the original group that came from Asia? Did your people conquer any other people? Didn't one tribe war with another on occasion?

Your lilly white headdress has some stains on it.

We're talking about this in the context of colonization, Taltos.

John is trying to say that because the Europeans fucked us over we (as a country) should be exclusive and exploitative to everyone else. His argument simply makes no sense.

P.S.
The Iroquois don't have a "headdress".