Democratic Primary Fucktussle!

[SEVERUSMAX]

Yes...and all that is because the USA was founded on a the right wing ideology of liberalism.....classical English liberalism to be exact.

That's why the socialist left is anti-American.

You and Dumpster share one common flaw: the tendency to conflate your ideology with the American nationality and patriotism. They're not the same by a country mile. No doubt you think that FDR and Truman weren't patriots, not to mention JFK, LBJ, Carter, Clinton, and Obama. And you'd be just as wrong about them as you are about Trump, who is no patriot at all.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You and Dumpster share one common flaw: the tendency to conflate your ideology with the American nationality and patriotism. They're not the same by a country mile.

Not at all. I'm well aware that ideology, nationality (I think you were going for nationalism) and patriotism are all very separate concepts.

No but the political ideology and values I adhere to personally are the ones the USA was founded and built upon, Liberalism.

As opposed to the anti-American socialistic, authoritarian left.

No doubt you think that FDR and Truman weren't patriots, not to mention JFK, LBJ, Carter, Clinton, and Obama.

Not at all, you're just engaging in wild ascription here because you can't actually make an argument to what I said.

And you'd be just as wrong about them as you are about Trump, who is no patriot at all.

This is just TDS talking.

 

[Ezeerider]

No, not quite so

Yes...and all that is because the USA was founded on a the right wing ideology of liberalism.....classical English liberalism to be exact.

That's why the socialist left is anti-American.

I believe a reading of our history reveals a very healthy split in the idealism of the founders, in particular, the conflicting images of democracy held by Hamilton and Jefferson, and of course those who supported their respective visions of what the new country should be - and more importantly, how and by whom and to what degree it should be governed. And the argument continues today. Hell, it's a democracy, or at least something closer to it than in most other countries today, so that, we hope anyway, speaks loudly for itself.

I believe we could come a hell of a lot farther toward something far more like what they envisioned if we would first stop trying to ignore their loud, repeated and mutual argument for, above all, an absolutely secular government.

However, religion and politics have always been tightly intertwined by those in power in both those factions, since the raison de etre of both has always been expansion and control; through fear, intimidation and unlimited violence whenever and wherever needed to seize and maintain both those objectives.

I agree there's a lot to be gained by getting back to basics in many ways, but we first have to know what that actually means, and that means doing the homework - and doing your own thinking.

"We must never confuse dissent with disloyalty." ~ Edward R. Murrow

 

[JKendallDane]

You and Dumpster share one common flaw: the tendency to conflate your ideology with the American nationality and patriotism. They're not the same by a country mile. No doubt you think that FDR and Truman weren't patriots, not to mention JFK, LBJ, Carter, Clinton, and Obama. And you'd be just as wrong about them as you are about Trump, who is no patriot at all.

Now, now, now! Even though I'm pretty sure, BB and Dump could give him and Pence a run for the money in a tag-team match, nobody can dry hump a flag as well as 45 does.

.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I believe a reading of our history reveals a very healthy split in the idealism of the founders, in particular, the conflicting images of democracy held by Hamilton and Jefferson, and of course those who supported their respective visions of what the new country should be - and more importantly, how and by whom and to what degree it should be governed. And the argument continues today. Hell, it's a democracy, or at least something closer to it than in most other countries today, so that, we hope anyway, speaks loudly for itself.

I agree there was differences in vision and how things should be run.

But they also SHARED some common ideals/values, most notably the protection of individual liberty from government authority.

Even into modern history where there were social liberals (FDR/JFK) and Neoliberals (Reagan, HW Bush) and classical liberals like Ron Paul and Ted Cruz, there was always a very liberal bias be it left or right.

That is no longer the case....there is a fundamental divide, there is a faction of (D)'s that's sounding more and more authoritarian every single day.

However, religion and politics have always been tightly intertwined by those in power

They both address values and ideals....can't compete with one another.

I agree there's a lot to be gained by getting back to basics in many ways, but we first have to know what that actually means, and that means doing the homework - and doing your own thinking.

100%

 

[JackLuis]

Oh, Demonrats are sounding authoritarian? What is causing that? Could it be the "Nazi" in the White House driving them to the Left?

Zealotry is the enemy, BB.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Oh, Demonrats are sounding authoritarian? What is causing that? Could it be the "Nazi" in the White House driving them to the Left?

Zealotry is the enemy, BB.

They are a reaction to Trump.

A totally hysterical and inappropriate one.

He's not a Nazi, not even fucking close and even if he was a legitimate fascist, answering the 2nd most dangerous and blood soaked social/political/economic ideology with the 1st is absolutely insane. You want to talk about a total fucking blowout civil war? Fascism and socialism legitimately competing in congress is a damn good way to do that. Neither is appropriate and both are absolutely un-American.

Even Bill Maher has been pleeding with the (D)'s to tone the crazy socialist shit down a notch because you're doing your best to get Trump re-elected.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Cruz is a fanatical theocrat, nowhere close to even a classical liberal.

 

[JackLuis]

Cruz is a fanatical theocrat, nowhere close to even a classical liberal.

Cruz is a loud mouthed ass hole who is in hock to the Texas Oil and Gas industry. If not others in the Upper class 1.5%. Other than that he's a repellent creep!

 

[BotanyBoy]

Cruz is a fanatical theocrat, nowhere close to even a classical liberal.

Really??

What evidence can you present that indicates Ted Cruz wants the Church itself replacing the government as laid out in the Constitution and running USA?

I'm totally open to that possibility.

But I've herd him advocating no such thing, quite the opposite.

 

[Dumpington]

Here are the latest numbers from the RealClearPolitics.com averaging of all of the national polls - https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ - from this morning:

26.2% - Joe Biden - (Creepy-Sleepy Joe somehow remains the overall leader!)

17.0 - Elizabeth Warren - (Pocahontas is proving to be very disappointing thus far!)

16.8 - Bernie Sanders - (The old white male socialist remains right-up there with Liz!)

6.2 - Kamala Harris - (Kam has been slowly fading ever since the Obama's got behind her candidacy!)

5.0 - Pete Buttigieg - (Mayor Pete can't seem to escape from 5th-place!)

3.0 - Francis O'Rourke - ("Beto" might do better if he stopped saying stupid things!)

3.0 - Andrew Yang - (Saying stupid things is what gets Yang attention!)

Cory Booker and the OTHER twenty-plus candidates share the remaining 22.8% polled with "undecided" and "none-of-the-above!"

 

[Dumpington]

A new day, and new polling numbers from the RealClearPolitics.com averaging out of the national polls - and it appears that "Gropin' Joe' is back up by double-digits!

28.0% - Joe Biden - (As much as so many Dems don't want Sleepy-Creepy Joe, nobody is toppling him!)

17.5 - Elizabeth Warren - (Senator Pocahontas seems to be the new favorite of the socialist-left!)

16.4 - Bernie Sanders - (Bernie's faithful followers will accept NO SUBSTITUTE this time around!)

6.1 - Kamala Harris - (Kamala just seems to continue slowly withering away!)

5.6 - Pete Buttigieg - (Mayor Pete will never get much higher than he is right now!)

3.3 - Francis O'Rourke - (Poor "Beto" had such high hopes for himself when this thing started!)

3.1 - Andrew Yang - (It's kind of weird that this guy has knocked Cory Booker out of the top seven!)

And then there are those OTHER twenty-or-so nobodies continuing to fight over the remaining table scraps.

 

[KeithD]

But . . . but . . . didn't Donald Trump publicly accuse Ted Cruz's father of being in on the JFK assassination? Cruz must agree since he's smiling at Trump now rather than busting him in the chops.

 

[JKendallDane]

But . . . but . . . didn't Donald Trump publicly accuse Ted Cruz's father of being in on the JFK assassination? Cruz must agree since he's smiling at Trump now rather than busting him in the chops.

My thought is that Pence managed to convince Cruz that their ultimate dream of Dominionism (and/or Armageddon) could be fulfilled by letting 45 be 45 and do the heavy lifting of screwing up and weakening the system for them. Cruz went from rabid anti-tRump to total suck-up toady way too quick to have it be simple party over country politics.

.

 

[YDB95]

Ted Cruz is out for Ted Cruz and no one else. He sees the kind of loyalty Trump commands on the hardcore right, and he wants the same.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Ted Cruz is out for Ted Cruz and no one else. He sees the kind of loyalty Trump commands on the hardcore right, and he wants the same.

When you consider liberals "hardcore right" ??? You've gone too far left.

 

[YDB95]

When you consider liberals "hardcore right" ??? You've gone too far left.

I'm through with trying to make any sense whatsoever of your definition of "liberal". Agree or disagree, you know what I meant.

 

[Dumpington]

New numbers out today in the RealClearPolitics.com national polling averages - https://www.realclearpolitics.com/ - with Creepy-Sleepy Joe maintaining his double-digit lead over Senator Pocahontas Warren:

28.8 - Joe Biden - ("Gropin' Joe" continues to hold onto the levers-of-power within his party!)

18.3 - Elizabeth Warren - (Democratic Party voters aren't afraid of Liz like they were with Mrs. Clinton!)

16.5 - Bernie Sanders - (So WHERE will Bernie's supporters go when he's dumped-on a second consecutive time?)

5.8 - Pete Buttigieg - (Mayor Pete actually finds himself in the TOP FOUR for the first time ever!)

5.7 - Kamala Harris - (Kamala's ongoing collapse in the polls is actually quite fun to watch - thank you, Tulsi!)

3.0 - Francis O'Rourke - (Give it up, "Beto," you loser!)

3.0 - Andrew Yang - (You KNOW the Dems are in trouble when this clown remains a contender!)

Eventually the other collection of 20+ nobodies trying to challenge Biden for this party's presidential nomination will see the futility of their efforts and quit!

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'm through with trying to make any sense whatsoever of your definition of "liberal".

Most uneducated folks have a hard time with it, I blame the media who's allowed the illiberal authoritarian left to hide behind the term for a few decades now.

Liberalism, political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/liberalism

Agree or disagree, you know what I meant.

You mean the traditional US political values (classical liberalism, jfust center of right) is "hardcore right" a term which brings fascism and Nazism to mind.

You seem to think liberalism is similar or comparable to fascism/Nazism.

This is VERY common among the radical left who thinks anything to the right of Mao = alt-right NAZI!!!

Obviously I disagree.....I don't think the founding fathers were fascist nor do I think the USA is fascistic, quite the opposite. After having actually been to some theocratical and fascistic nations and even other 1st world democracies I know that the USA was and still is radically liberal.

 

[JackLuis]

Warren shows signs of broadening her base

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) appears to be growing her share of support from black voters, who have been slow to warm to her campaign.

A new poll from NBC News and The Wall Street Journal found Warren in second place among black voters with 13 percent support, her best showing in any poll to date. That’s up from 8 percent in the previous survey from July, although the 5-point swing is within the poll’s margin of error.

An Economist–YouGov survey released Wednesday found Warren’s support among black voters at 11 percent, up from 5 percent in July. And the latest Politico–Morning Consult survey found Warren gaining 5 points among black voters.

Former Vice President Joe Biden still dominates the field with black voters, and he’ll be the favorite to win the nomination unless that changes. Biden pulled 49 percent support from black voters in the NBC-Journal poll, a 36-point lead over Warren.

But Warren is showing signs of life here after public opinion surveys from earlier in the cycle showed her languishing in the single digits among black voters, raising criticism from some quarters that her appeal was limited to wealthy white liberals on the coasts.

Liz could do this, she has plans!

Although she is not favoured by Korean American vets, yet.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Warren shows signs of broadening her base



Liz could do this, she has plans!

Although she is not favoured by Korean American vets, yet.

Or anyone else who has even a shred of respect for the American dream or what the USA stands for.

I'm just American btw.

 

[JackLuis]

NYC mayor Bill de Blasio ending his Democratic presidential campaign

One more down and it's only September.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

The lower tier ones, the really low tier ones, are those about to drop out. I don't count Tulsi as that, not really, when she's in the top ten in Iowa and top four in New Hampshire. Yang is still ahead enough, too. Mayor Pete is capable of hanging on for now, maybe Beto, too. Harris is in denial and likely to hang on at least until Cali. Once she loses her home state badly enough, she'll drop out.

But Bennet, Bullock, Klobuchar, Messam, they're rapidly running on fumes here and everyone knows it. Not calling them bad people. Just saying that their Presidential hopes have already been dashed and they can't accept it. Kudos to de Blasio for finally facing facts.

 

[KeithD]

Just saying that their Presidential hopes have already been dashed and they can't accept it. Kudos to de Blasio for finally facing facts.

Their vice presidential hopes aren't dashed yet, which may keep some of them around a bit longer.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Their vice presidential hopes aren't dashed yet, which may keep some of them around a bit longer.

That may well be what's keeping them going. Bullock, for instance, is a plausible Veep. Klobuchar's management style in her Senate office, however, could well raise eyebrows.