Defining Love

[Cathleen]

The love I felt in the distant past was what I would consider destructive love in a sense. He did not love me, the way I had loved him. The experience of hurt I felt once I realized that didn't really phase me in a life altering he spun my life around and now I'm stuck in the mud way. Once I was able to distance myself from the situation I realized that I had given up way too much of myself. I gave him what I thought was all I had. I don't dislike him or hate him either. Even though he was happy when I asked him to leave (he didn't want to be the "bad guy"), he was the one who for over a year continued to try and contact me and reconcile. I think I took the energy I absorbed from that love and it helped me to 1) reconnect with myself. I had completely lost myself meaning I limited things I liked to do because he didn't like it, etc (he wasn't possessive). 2) It allowed me to rediscover what I wanted in a partner and more importantly what I didn't want.
The energy that was once there no longer is, but what is present is a stronger, happier me. Am I in the ball park here with what you're looking for?

Yes, Shelly, you are in the ball park - actually you hit it out with that reply.

I don't like that I can relate to the 'losing yourself' for a loved one. I don't know if it isn't possible for me. I hope it doesn't repeat for me, if there is that opportunity.

I know age has helped define more of what I want and don't want but I'm not sure age serves me well with the risk or trust issues needed. I know I'm not in the best of places at the moment so that is damping my hope - or whatever it is that makes me open.

 

[Cathleen]

Years ago I had an old guy tell me his definition of love,kind of comical.So I thought I would throw it out here.Love is an abcess in the brain that comes to a head in the penis.Years ago I began to think a lot along those lines.I would find a really hot piece of ass and I would think I was in love.Had love and lust confused.
I had several bad maraiges because of that.Then I finally found my one love of my life.There are many kinds of love.The love you have for a son or daughter,the kind of love you have for your spouse or significant other etc. and parents,pets and so on.So to put one definition on the word love for me is dificult.
As for love of your partner,spouse etc. I guess I would say that it is after several years of being together that you get that same giddy ,excited feeling in your gut when it is say getting close to quitting time at work because you been thinking of them all day and you cannot wait to get home to see them,talk to them.It is when bang out of the blue for no reason you suddenly think of them.Their smile,the cute little things they do and you think how very lucky you are to have them in your life and you think of ways to make them happy and try to make them have those special days.They feel like they are actually a part of you like you have been together forever but yet it feels as though you just met them also because that excitement is still there and you look at them even though you both have changed drastically ove rthe years and you still find them absolutely beautiful and you are thankful for them.

Cobra, that is funny and heartwarming at the same time... not to mention sweet as all get out. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[Cathleen]

"You say that love is nonsense....I tell you it is no such thing. For weeks and months it is a steady physical pain, an ache about the heart, never leaving one, by night or by day; a long strain on one's nerves like toothache or rheumatism, not intolerable at any one instant, but exhausting by its steady drain on the strength."
Henry Brooks Adams (1838-1918),

My first reaction was how amazing it would be to feel that kind of love. Then I thought ouch - almost.

Is it that love breaks us down and then builds us together with the other? I know I don't have a clue on that question.

 

[shell seeker2]

Yes, Shelly, you are in the ball park - actually you hit it out with that reply.

I don't like that I can relate to the 'losing yourself' for a loved one. I don't know if it isn't possible for me. I hope it doesn't repeat for me, if there is that opportunity.

I know age has helped define more of what I want and don't want but I'm not sure age serves me well with the risk or trust issues needed. I know I'm not in the best of places at the moment so that is damping my hope - or whatever it is that makes me open.

I have vowed myself, not to loose myself again. I know that age has also helped me to define who and what I am. I don't think I had bad choices with trust (that was never an issue) however, I am finding that the older I get the more I want to take the risks. I have found that through my past experiences it has helped me to be more open about everything. I can honestly say, that I have never trusted anyone as much as I trust my s/o. I think I trust him more than anyone for the simple fact that I have laid all my cards out on the table and have not been judged and I have been respected for it.
Every place we are helps to get us where we're going.

 

[Gallant Man]

Love is complex

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=13226884#post13226884

 

[Private_Label]

One of my favorite threads 'Defining Love' is no longer active but the questions and interest remain. Recently I've noticed lots of threads describing relationship trouble, many wondering about the idea of being 'in love' and loving someone. So I thought I'd just openly steal the original thread's original post.



To begin: What is your definition of love?

I have several.
Unconditional love: no matter how badly the other person screws up I will always give my emotional support him or her, even if I yell at them.

Friendship: someone I enjoy being with, and can share my secrets with. Note: there are people that can be "called" freinds that I do not love. It doesn't mean I have to love "everything" about each friend, just that there is something loveable about them.

Lust: desire to have not just the other types of love but also a physical sexual desire for the other person

What experiences helped shape your definition?

My family. I have some members who have taught me unconditional love and other members who I wonder if they actually feel anything for me, or if they just like the fact that I am window dressing for their life.

In High School, when I was having a major bout of depression (undiagnosed) a friend was moving away that I did nor consider as a close friend. She started hugging the other girls present goodby. I didn't expect to get a hug, but I did. *tearing up* I wont ever forget that, because it snapped me out of the "zombie" phase I was going through. I don't even remember her name, and I doubt she remembers me.

What have you read that helped form your definition?

Speculative fiction (Sci-fi/fantasy) Mainly Heinlein and LeGuin have given me interesting things to consider on the subject of love. Both have shown me that it is possible to love a lot of people at the same time - you just love them all in different ways.

Taking familial love as a given, what other forms of love can you identify?

Either I have too many forms to completely list or it can all be seen as aspects of familial/friendship love.

What are the limits on loving? Can we love more than one person at a time (again, all outside the category of familial love)?

I think so. Each person that is loved is loved for different reasons. Even family. I have love for my friends. DOesn't mean I want to have sex with all of them, but I see friendship as a form of love.

What freedom do we gain through love? What constraints do we take on through love?

Freedoms: a support network that acts as a cushion when you screw up big time in your life in any aspect of you life. It is a safe base from which I can range out farther than I could if I were alone.

Constraints: the offering of unsolicited opinions.
Thinking about their needs for a safe haven and a base from which they can range out farther than they could alone.

What is the difference between being in love and loving someone?

I haven't figured that one out completely yet. I am loving to a lot of people, friends, family... I don't have enough experience (even at 40 years old) to say how being "in love" is different. At the moment though, I would have to say that "In Love" includes loving someone, but in addition the person is someone you want to be even closer to, and have a partnership with to be the first one to provide the other with the freedom and constraints of love.

 

[Cathleen]

So often I hear the phrase 'You can't help who you fall in love with' (or you can't help who you love), in the context of accepting limitations or adjusting your own thoughts or preferences of who you thought you'd fall in love with.

Why? I'm not sure I understand that at the moment. What happens when you fall in love with someone that would fit into the idea of that phrase? Do you have a priority list of sorts? Such as I can't accept this or they must have that. I'm resisting using the word 'settle' but...

Anyone have some thoughts on this?

 

[Nikasha]

Very early, as in almost immediately, I learned the hard way the difference between sex and love. They are good separately, but together they are sublime. Having sex with a person I love, and am in love with allows me to completely let go of all of those facades we all use in day to day life to be part of society. I can be 100% ME. And not just in the bedroom. I don't have to hide behind all that armor that I've built up over the years, that thick skin of sarcasm and wise-cracks that comes so naturally now, that keeps me separate. I love him, so I am open to him, to his energy, to his needs, to his wants. I love him, so I am vulnerable to him, and he to me. I wouldn't have it any other way.

When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind
lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your
tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their
clinging to the earth.
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may
become sacred bread for God's sacred feast
--Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet Speaks of Love

 

[Nikasha]

So often I hear the phrase 'You can't help who you fall in love with' (or you can't help who you love), in the context of accepting limitations or adjusting your own thoughts or preferences of who you thought you'd fall in love with.

Why? I'm not sure I understand that at the moment. What happens when you fall in love with someone that would fit into the idea of that phrase? Do you have a priority list of sorts? Such as I can't accept this or they must have that. I'm resisting using the word 'settle' but...

Anyone have some thoughts on this?

Sometimes I think that electric chemistry between people overrides everything else, everything "sane." There's that one person that we know we shouldn't have anything to do with, but the energy between you couldn't care a fig about what you think or want, because there's just something so demandingly magnetic about that person. I've learned to just RUN when that happens. There are kinds of temptation that I cannot withstand, and so I make extra sure I don't allow ME to place myself in those situations. It's not always easy to make your feet listen to reason, though, when the rest of you is hellbent on that person.

Does that make sense?

 

[Ricwilly]

"The highest love of all finds its fulfillment not in what it keeps, but in what it gives."

 

[midwestyankee]

Cate, I applaud you for reviving this thread. I can think of no one better than you to take up this mantle and make it a better place for discussion and, possibly, learning.

X 12

 

[Cathleen]

What a pleasure it is to see you here... thanks, you my friend are very welcome here of course and you are also a treasure.

 

[SweetErika]

I've been eagerly following this thread...so much food for thought! I'm still thinking about the original questions, but lines from one of my favorite poems keep running through my head...

Love

I love you
Not only for what you are,
But for what I am
When I am with you.

I love you,
Not only for what
You have made of yourself,
But for what
You are making of me.

I love you
For the part of me
That you bring out;

I love you
For putting your hand
Into my heaped-up heart
And passing over
All the foolish, weak things
That you can't help
Dimly seeing there,
And for drawing out
Into the light
All the beautiful belongings
That no one else had looked
Quite far enough to find.

I love you because you
Are helping me to make
Of the lumber of my life
Not a tavern
But a temple.

Out of the works
Of my every day
Not a reproach
But a song.

I love you
Because you have done
More than any creed
Could have done
To make me good.
And more than any fate
Could have done
To make me happy.

You have done it
Without a touch,
Without a word,
Without a sign.

You have done it
By being yourself.
Perhaps that is what
Being a friend means,
After all.

by Roy Croft

 

[midwestyankee]

What a pleasure it is to see you here... thanks, you my friend are very welcome here of course and you are also a treasure.

You're such a gracious hostess, Cate. Thank you.

 

[Cathleen]

Ah, but Yank, you are the reason for the ponderings of this topic. It's nice to have some participation, as I've found there is no one definition of love but that doesn't mean it can't be contemplated.

I have a question for you all...

What kind of expectations do you have with your loved one? Or what kind of expectations do you have of being loved or in love?

 

[bobsgirl]

Ah, but Yank, you are the reason for the ponderings of this topic. It's nice to have some participation, as I've found there is no one definition of love but that doesn't mean it can't be contemplated.

I have a question for you all...

What kind of expectations do you have with your loved one? Or what kind of expectations do you have of being loved or in love?

I was just thinking about this today. I guess I expect my loved one to pay attention to my likes and dislikes and make an effort to remember the little things that make me happy. And, day in and day out, it's not as easy to make this a priority as you might think.

MrBG and I are empty-nesters and we are kind of in transition now. Our youngest moved out a couple weeks ago, and I am surprised to say, we have had FUN! Yes indeedy, that kind of fun! Who knew?! Maybe it's one of the rewards for sticking it out through diapers, and the teenage years! LOL

 

[shell seeker2]

Ah, but Yank, you are the reason for the ponderings of this topic. It's nice to have some participation, as I've found there is no one definition of love but that doesn't mean it can't be contemplated.

I have a question for you all...

What kind of expectations do you have with your loved one? Or what kind of expectations do you have of being loved or in love?

My biggest expectation of my loved one would have to be respect and understanding. By respect, I want to be a full partner and share everything. It's difficult at times, however, I have found that by sharing not only the responsibilities, but fears, hopes, and dreams and understanding them for what they are, is critical in any relationship. Probably even more important then that would be respect for who I am and who they are as in any relationship. The older I become, the more I tend to overlook downfalls in a person.

As fars as expectations for being in love, wouldn't that be dependent on the couple? I haven't had expectations of being in love. I know that most girls dream of the perfect guy, the perfect everything, but let's face it. Don't you think that that has helped increase the break ups? Too many expectations of what love should be rather than what it is?

 

[Exciteher]

I love this thread, and am touched by what everyone is sharing here. I see thoughts familiar to me, and thoughts that shine new, but above all I am struck by the grace I feel as you each share your insights. I have been pondering how to add anything to this thread. It is very difficult for me to speak of love without speaking of it from within my experience of relationship. Below is a verse from Gibran that I was introduced to by the woman who encouraged me, with wisdom and passion, to discover my own unique way of loving. I did not understand my need to love many people at once, or how that could even be right or possable. She knew it was my nature, just as it was hers.. but it was difficult for me. I feel this verse contains universal truths, whether one is inclined to love many or one. She gave me this early on, it was like a key, another way to add to the understanding of the infinite borders of love. I have not been able to more concisely express what it contains about love in my own words.

And a youth said, "Speak to us of Friendship."
And he answered, saying: Your friend is your needs answered.
He is your field which you sow with love and reap with thanksgiving.
And he is your board and your fireside.
For you come to him with your hunger, and you seek him for peace.
When your friend speaks his mind you fear not the "nay" in your own mind,
nor do you withhold the "aye."
And when he is silent your heart ceases not to listen to his heart;
For without words, in friendship, all thoughts, all desires,
all expectations are born and shared, with joy that is unclaimed.
When you part from your friend, you grieve not;
For that which you love most in him may be clearer in his absence,
as the mountain to the climber is clearer from the plain.
And let there be no purpose in friendship save the deepening of the spirit.
For love that seeks aught but the disclosure of its own mystery is not love
but a net cast forth: and only the unprofitable is caught.
And let your best be for your friend.
If he must know the ebb of your tide, let him know its flood also.
For what is your friend that you should seek him with hours to kill?
Seek him always with hours to live.
For it is his to fill your need, but not your emptiness.
And in the sweetness of friendship let there be laughter, and sharing of pleasures.
For in the dew of little things the heart finds its morning and is refreshed.
Kahlil Gibran

 

[Cathleen]

Exciteher, thank you for sharing those words. I'm glad you're enjoying the thread, please feel free to share whatever you'd like... it makes for an interesting discussion. Welcome.

 

[Cathleen]

<snip>

As fars as expectations for being in love, wouldn't that be dependent on the couple? I haven't had expectations of being in love. I know that most girls dream of the perfect guy, the perfect everything, but let's face it. Don't you think that that has helped increase the break ups? Too many expectations of what love should be rather than what it is?

Shelly, as always you get me thinking.

I think expectations are deadly actually. Many times, in any relationship, expectations that go unmet lead to resentment. Resentments hurt everything, they are like poison in my opinion.

I never really thought about the reasons for break ups in a general sense. You definitely hit on something there. Perfection doesn't exist, I suppose some will still seek it though. I wonder why...

 

[Ricwilly]

Yeah I think expectations just set me up for disappointment. I think real love has to be unconditional. That is not to say I can't set boundries on what behavior I will accept. I can't be in a relationship where my needs aren't being met. Well not happily anyway. I had some of those in my youth. I wouldn't live like that today. Life is too short.

 

[shell seeker2]

Shelly, as always you get me thinking.

I think expectations are deadly actually. Many times, in any relationship, expectations that go unmet lead to resentment. Resentments hurt everything, they are like poison in my opinion.

I never really thought about the reasons for break ups in a general sense. You definitely hit on something there. Perfection doesn't exist, I suppose some will still seek it though. I wonder why...

So many books and movies romantasize love. Who wouldn't love a life where there were only happy endings? From the time we are very young (Disney movies) to all the "chick flicks" all imply happy endings. I believe that we read and watch these things because of the happy endings. It's always easier to think the grass is greener on the other side. It's almost as it is programmed into our heads. Real life happens, as does things that make our own lives seem less simple.
I agree that expectations are deadly also. With that being said, all of the above applies. Many people still seek that "perfection". In the beginning of a relationship of course it is there.....everyone is on their best behavior. Then once you get comfortable with someone, it becomes "less perfect" and more realistic. I also believe that the lack of support our young people have today and the more influences from movies, books, games have also helped to let our young people more freedoms then we were given in our youth. With less guidance, and more freedoms, are we setting them up for a fall? I see so many children whose parents are less and less realistic. How to we turn this around?

 

[wicked woman]

So many books and movies romantasize love. Who wouldn't love a life where there were only happy endings? From the time we are very young (Disney movies) to all the "chick flicks" all imply happy endings. I believe that we read and watch these things because of the happy endings. It's always easier to think the grass is greener on the other side. It's almost as it is programmed into our heads. Real life happens, as does things that make our own lives seem less simple.
I agree that expectations are deadly also. With that being said, all of the above applies. Many people still seek that "perfection". In the beginning of a relationship of course it is there.....everyone is on their best behavior. Then once you get comfortable with someone, it becomes "less perfect" and more realistic. I also believe that the lack of support our young people have today and the more influences from movies, books, games have also helped to let our young people more freedoms then we were given in our youth. With less guidance, and more freedoms, are we setting them up for a fall? I see so many children whose parents are less and less realistic. How to we turn this around?

I don't know shell seeker. I think our youth have loads of examples of marriages that didn't work out...right before their eyes. What's the divorce rate now?

My sons were both under 3 when I divorced their Dad. They can't remember ever living in a 'traditional' family. Frankly I'm surprised one of my sons married in his early 20s and the other is going to marry in his mid 20s.

 

[Exciteher]

Exciteher, thank you for sharing those words. I'm glad you're enjoying the thread, please feel free to share whatever you'd like... it makes for an interesting discussion. Welcome.

Cathleen, you are welcome! And thank you so much for your warm welcome!

 

[Cathleen]

I think when I was growing up the romanticism of love was still alive. However, by the time I reached the age of majority the illusion was dying - not dead but dying. I have to admit my views were skewed though.

I'm not sure I'm grateful for that or not.