Defining Love

[shell seeker2]

I don't know shell seeker. I think our youth have loads of examples of marriages that didn't work out...right before their eyes. What's the divorce rate now?

My sons were both under 3 when I divorced their Dad. They can't remember ever living in a 'traditional' family. Frankly I'm surprised one of my sons married in his early 20s and the other is going to marry in his mid 20s.

A very good point, WW!

 

[midwestyankee]

One expectation that I would have to insist upon of my beloved would be an unconditional willingness to try to understand me. I just don't see any other way to a good and complete love except through a willingness to extend oneself to fully understand the other. Both partners must be equally willing to open up so that they can discover each other freely. It's a scary thing to reveal our secrets and weaknesses but I don't see how love can flourish without the nourishment of truth and openness.

 

[Masters_aphrodite]

Who wouldn't love a life where there were only happy endings? From the time we are very young (Disney movies) to all the "chick flicks" all imply happy endings. I believe that we read and watch these things because of the happy endings. It's always easier to think the grass is greener on the other side. It's almost as it is programmed into our heads. Real life happens, as does things that make our own lives seem less simple.
I agree that expectations are deadly also. With that being said, all of the above applies. Many people still seek that "perfection".

This is a great thread and i have enjoyed what everyone has shared. One thing that sticks in my mind is a quote that i read from a book..i am not sure who the quote belongs to so i cannot give credit.

"Every love story has an unhappy ending sooner or later---even if the love lasts a lifetime, somebody dies first."

 

[midwestyankee]

This is a great thread and i have enjoyed what everyone has shared. One thing that sticks in my mind is a quote that i read from a book..i am not sure who the quote belongs to so i cannot give credit.

"Every love story has an unhappy ending sooner or later---even if the love lasts a lifetime, somebody dies first."

This is one of the reasons why we admire lovers so much: it's because we enter into love knowing that horrible agony and pain are certain. And yet we love without reservation, despite the knowledge that every day of loving will make the inevitable agony that much more unbearable.

 

[Masters_aphrodite]

This is one of the reasons why we admire lovers so much: it's because we enter into love knowing that horrible agony and pain are certain. And yet we love without reservation, despite the knowledge that every day of loving will make the inevitable agony that much more unbearable.

Yes, this is very true.

 

[bobsgirl]

This is one of the reasons why we admire lovers so much: it's because we enter into love knowing that horrible agony and pain are certain. And yet we love without reservation, despite the knowledge that every day of loving will make the inevitable agony that much more unbearable.

And ask anyone going through such agony if they would rather have never experienced great love to avoid the pain, and I'm sure the answer would be a resounding no. I know mine would be.

 

[wicked woman]

And ask anyone going through such agony if they would rather have never experienced great love to avoid the pain, and I'm sure the answer would be a resounding no. I know mine would be.

Agreed bobsgirl....but I'd rather answer having 'gone' through the agony, instead of 'going' through it.

*don't mind me...you know where I'm coming from*

 

[Cathleen]

This is one of the reasons why we admire lovers so much: it's because we enter into love knowing that horrible agony and pain are certain. And yet we love without reservation, despite the knowledge that every day of loving will make the inevitable agony that much more unbearable.

I really don't enjoy when you are correct.

 

[Cathleen]

Agreed bobsgirl....but I'd rather answer having 'gone' through the agony, instead of 'going' through it.

*don't mind me...you know where I'm coming from*

Agree to the previous agreement.

So, this leads me to a question. That pain we feel emotionally also becomes knowledge in our intellects... the emotional pain will pass in time but the intellect cannot unknow something.

Having that knowledge running around in our minds we still will sign up for love again - but, do you feel the knowledge part holds us back? Is it a longer time with the next love etc.?

 

[Cathleen]

This is a great thread and i have enjoyed what everyone has shared. One thing that sticks in my mind is a quote that i read from a book..i am not sure who the quote belongs to so i cannot give credit.

"Every love story has an unhappy ending sooner or later---even if the love lasts a lifetime, somebody dies first."

Welcome to the thread Masters_aphrodite, thank you for sharing that quote.

(I like quotes but you might find that I will analyze it and discuss it to death.)

 

[wicked woman]

Welcome to the thread Masters_aphrodite, thank you for sharing that quote.

(I like quotes but you might find that I will analyze it and discuss it to death.)

You? analyze and discuss it to death? no!

*sorry Cate...just couldn't resist*

 

[Masters_aphrodite]

Thank you for the welcome Cathleen, and i am glad you enjoyed the quote.

Nothing wrong with analysis and discussion.

 

[Cathleen]

You? analyze and discuss it to death? no!

*sorry Cate...just couldn't resist*

You forgot the word 'over'. lol No need to resist, I'm smiling.

 

[Cathleen]

Thank you for the welcome Cathleen, and i am glad you enjoyed the quote.

Nothing wrong with analysis and discussion.

Give me time, I'll cure you of that notion. lol

 

[wicked woman]

Agree to the previous agreement.

So, this leads me to a question. That pain we feel emotionally also becomes knowledge in our intellects... the emotional pain will pass in time but the intellect cannot unknow something.

Having that knowledge running around in our minds we still will sign up for love again - but, do you feel the knowledge part holds us back? Is it a longer time with the next love etc.?

Well considering we have free will...I think that depends on the individual...and even for an individual it may change over time.

When I was divorced, it hurt so much, my unconscious protected me...had me invest my energy in raising my children...and for the most part took away my interest in men...if I didn't let a man close enough for me to care about, one couldn't hurt me, right? I 'needed' that protection for longer than I care to admit. But eventually, I was strong enough...brave enough...to open my heart again when someone opened theirs to me. I was even strong enough to survive when the love we felt for each other didn't work out as we had hoped. After that I swore I'd never close myself off again. I realized how much I gave up.

Now I think love comes so rarely...that if it knocks on my door, I'm answering...as Yank stated...I've never regretted it....just hasn't ever worked out the way I've wanted it too. Still hoping...

 

[wicked woman]

You forgot the word 'over'. lol No need to resist, I'm smiling.

I thought 'to death' covered 'over'. No?

 

[Cathleen]

Well considering we have free will...I think that depends on the individual...and even for an individual it may change over time.

When I was divorced, it hurt so much, my unconscious protected me...had me invest my energy in raising my children...and for the most part took away my interest in men...if I didn't let a man close enough for me to care about, one couldn't hurt me, right? I 'needed' that protection for longer than I care to admit. But eventually, I was strong enough...brave enough...to open my heart again when someone opened theirs to me. I was even strong enough to survive when the love we felt for each other didn't work out as we had hoped. After that I swore I'd never close myself off again. I realized how much I gave up.

Now I think love comes so rarely...that if it knocks on my door, I'm answering...as Yank stated...I've never regretted it....just hasn't ever worked out the way I've wanted it too. Still hoping...

You know the mind is the most interesting place...

I like what you say and understand it too. I understand that open door far more now. I am finding that since I opened it, I now crave the light outside. But that memory of pain does hinder me still.

I like your words 'just hasn't ever worked out the way I've wanted...', that analytic part of my mind is seeing it all as an experiment... complete with Bunsen Burners, microscopes, beakers etc. I can deal with it at that level at the moment. I can see the 'facts' of the relationships, that helps me bring the experiences into my heart. The mind protects first I suppose.

I've gained so much for having opened the door and don't regret the experiences.

 

[Cathleen]

I thought 'to death' covered 'over'. No?

Umm, it could - just that life everlasting part. lol

 

[wicked woman]

Umm, it could - just that life everlasting part. lol

I don't plan on living that long Cate.

 

[wicked woman]

You know the mind is the most interesting place...

I like what you say and understand it too. I understand that open door far more now. I am finding that since I opened it, I now crave the light outside. But that memory of pain does hinder me still.

I like your words 'just hasn't ever worked out the way I've wanted...', that analytic part of my mind is seeing it all as an experiment... complete with Bunsen Burners, microscopes, beakers etc. I can deal with it at that level at the moment. I can see the 'facts' of the relationships, that helps me bring the experiences into my heart. The mind protects first I suppose.

I've gained so much for having opened the door and don't regret the experiences.

The mind is very protective of us...even when we don't know we need it.

I don't know Cate...I'm pretty analytical...well ok nothing compared to you ...but I tend to look at it a different way. Not so much an experiment...my words you quoted were just a matter of fact. I tend to think of it more on a pro-con basis. I lose way more by cutting myself off to love than I gain by keeping my heart open (even taking into account the downside of love). Cost benefit analysis on my part.
Pure and simple.

What I have learned though, is that I'm capable of loving more than one person at a time...heart 'wide' open, I guess.

 

[midwestyankee]

I really don't enjoy when you are correct.

You're not alone in this.

 

[midwestyankee]

Well considering we have free will...I think that depends on the individual...and even for an individual it may change over time.

When I was divorced, it hurt so much, my unconscious protected me...had me invest my energy in raising my children...and for the most part took away my interest in men...if I didn't let a man close enough for me to care about, one couldn't hurt me, right? I 'needed' that protection for longer than I care to admit. But eventually, I was strong enough...brave enough...to open my heart again when someone opened theirs to me. I was even strong enough to survive when the love we felt for each other didn't work out as we had hoped. After that I swore I'd never close myself off again. I realized how much I gave up.

Now I think love comes so rarely...that if it knocks on my door, I'm answering...as Yank stated...I've never regretted it....just hasn't ever worked out the way I've wanted it too. Still hoping...

I firmly believe that love and hope are intimately associated. Hope allows us to be open for love and love gives us reasons to hope even when our intellects and our reason tell us it is impossible.

 

[wicked woman]

I firmly believe that love and hope are intimately associated. Hope allows us to be open for love and love gives us reasons to hope even when our intellects and our reason tell us it is impossible.

Hadn't thought of it that way Yank...but now that you mention it...I agree. I like that way of looking at it.

 

[midwestyankee]

Hadn't thought of it that way Yank...but now that you mention it...I agree. I like that way of looking at it.

Why, thank you, ma'am.

 

[Cathleen]

I firmly believe that love and hope are intimately associated. Hope allows us to be open for love and love gives us reasons to hope even when our intellects and our reason tell us it is impossible.

I like that very much. So, what comes first? lol Just shoot me!!

I think hope is first, the heart wants and craves love but I think you need hope to allow for the openness. I think once the heart has a taste of love - in many forms - it becomes a life long job so to speak.