Defining Love

[TantaLiza]

I firmly believe that every person in this life needs to have at least one person who loves them just because they do. Not because they have to, or because they are related. Just because loving that person makes their life better. Love without obligation is the key to making us realize we are special in our own way.

Very well put, GG!! I guess after a while, you get tired of being patient and just want someone to make you feel special.... it's been way too long! ~sigh~

Back to bed for me....

 

[midwestyankee]

Very well put, GG!! I guess after a while, you get tired of being patient and just want someone to make you feel special.... it's been way too long! ~sigh~

Back to bed for me....

I suspect that when "it's been way too long" one of the challenges is to maintain a balance of staying open to others without feeling constantly vulnerable. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why it always seems to feel as if it has been way too long.

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Love

What an interesting thread!

As I've grown older, my definitions of various feelings and things have gotten simpler.

I agree that love comes in all degrees, and that the word itself is used for different meanings.

I am STILL learning about life and love every day.

The greatest lesson I'm STILL studying is that in order to truly love another (or others) you must love yourself first. If you do NOT love yourself, and put your needs first, you will not be able to fully help and love the other people in your life.

I have met many "caretakers", and some of them are great friends of mine. However, by giving so much of themselves to those they love and care about, they have become "lost" somehow, and do not appear to ever be happy (or feel guilty when they manage to find time to do something nice for themselves).

The little word "in" changes the meaning of love so deeply for me. By loving myself, my heart has opened up and allowed a wonderful 'Man to be "in" love with me. It doesn't seem to work if that "in" word isn't mutual (as far as couples go).

"Letting go" is an act of love as well, as I was only able to believe in myself after stopping a relationship where he was unable to use that little word "in" before the word "love". Looking back now, I realize I still love him, and hope that one day he can love himself enough to let another into his life as I did.

Guess with this rambling, my definition isn't sounding very simple!

Each day brings a new color into the word "love" for me. For instance, today "love" will be watching "Dr. Phil"; cleaning the bathroom and starting some laundry!

As I begin this year officially engaged to be married, my future offers many challenges of my feelings of "love". The greatest sensation is being able to look into my 'Man's eyes knowing I'm "in" love with him (on good days and bad ones), and actually seeing his love FOR me reflecting back to me.

I don't think I would have had this experience if I didn't begin to love myself first.

And I thought my answer would be a quick one!

Jenny, thanks for sharing here. You made some very important points but this was not a ramble.

I especially noted your thoughts on people you call "caretakers." I think many women in my parents' generation (and mine as well) were raised to believe that being a caretaker was their natural role in life. And some people just naturally seem to take on that role. I am close to a family where the mother, two daughters, and a son were all raised to be caretakers and they all had deep trouble loving themselves as well as consequent difficulties in loving others well.

So, for my part, I suspect you're completely right to say that you could not possibly have found yourself in the love you have now without first loving yourself.

Congratulations on your engagement! I'm very happy for you.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

GG, for someone who vowed to make a single post here and then go on her merry way, you seem to have made yourself at home

And I could not have come close to saying this as well as you did. You have added a lot of wisdom and clear thinking lately.

As much as I expect to rue that I said this, I'm glad you decided to stick around. It's making a big difference in the thread.

I knew if I stuck around I would hear about it from you yankster.

I thank you for the compliment.

And trust me, rue it you will, over and over again my friend. I think history has proven that once I start, I never shut up

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Very well put, GG!! I guess after a while, you get tired of being patient and just want someone to make you feel special.... it's been way too long! ~sigh~

Back to bed for me....

Thank you

Being made to feel special by someone whom you WANT to make you feel that way is a gift too precious for words. And I have found in my very limited experience that, although it seems way too long, when it happens again, it will have been well worth the wait.

 

[midwestyankee]

I knew if I stuck around I would hear about it from you yankster.

I thank you for the compliment.

And trust me, rue it you will, over and over again my friend. I think history has proven that once I start, I never shut up

GG, if you keep making posts as eloquent and moving as the one above this, no one will want you to stop. Not even me.

A for your eloquence.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Perspective...............

I've read back to the beginning of this thread and it's led me to many provoking thoughts about what love means, when love is right and wrong, when love works, and how to make love work.

But then this evening, as I was tucking in my daughter and saying goodnight, her last comment to me was "I love you forever mommy, even when you get dead".

What else is there?

 

[midwestyankee]

Perspective...............

I've read back to the beginning of this thread and it's led me to many provoking thoughts about what love means, when love is right and wrong, when love works, and how to make love work.

But then this evening, as I was tucking in my daughter and saying goodnight, her last comment to me was "I love you forever mommy, even when you get dead".

What else is there?

Sometimes we can learn more by looking through the eyes of a child than we can by reading all the philosophers.

 

[TantaLiza]

Thank you

Being made to feel special by someone whom you WANT to make you feel that way is a gift too precious for words. And I have found in my very limited experience that, although it seems way too long, when it happens again, it will have been well worth the wait.

Tis true... one day it will be worth the wait...

In all honesty, depsite having a teenager, the closest I've come to really feelin special was two years ago... which said previously, was very shortlived (less than 6 months total). At almost 38, I believe I'm ready to see what it's supposed to feel like...

Untill then, it'll be things like your daughter and mine will say that keeps me alive....

Kudos, GG!!!

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Tis true... one day it will be worth the wait...

In all honesty, depsite having a teenager, the closest I've come to really feelin special was two years ago... which said previously, was very shortlived (less than 6 months total). At almost 38, I believe I'm ready to see what it's supposed to feel like...

Untill then, it'll be things like your daughter and mine will say that keeps me alive....

Kudos, GG!!!

When things work right, many types of love come together to make life good. Until that happens, you live off the love you have.

And to be perfectly honest, if I had to choose between them, I'll take the being loved when I "get dead" kind every time.

Thankfully, life doesn't make us choose.

 

[TantaLiza]

When things work right, many types of love come together to make life good. Until that happens, you live off the love you have.

And to be perfectly honest, if I had to choose between them, I'll take the being loved when I "get dead" kind every time.

Thankfully, life doesn't make us choose.

Thank God for small favors, eh??

Those real hugs an kisses from neices and nephews help, too!!

 

[midwestyankee]

I have read all of your posts and have agreed with many of them. We all have our own definitions of love. I love deeply so it makes sense to me that this topic of love is such a deep one that we will never be able to truly define it.

I love my spouse, my family, my in laws, my friends, my pets, my life! I love spring until summer. Then I love the heat of summer until fall. Then I love fall for all its color and cool. Then I love winter. Does this make me fickle? No. All of these loves are different. I believe it shows that I have a huge heart and can love many people and things in many ways. Loving someone and being in love are not the same, as has been discussed earlier. I agree with the posters who stated that the first flash of falling in love tends to burn out into a more comfortable love. To me that comfortable love is just as wonderful as the first flash. It may not be as exciting, but it is steady and secure. Personally I think that if you only have lust it will eventually burn out to nothing. I was in love with 2 men once, years ago. Both of them were different, as was my love for each of them. The more passionate of the 2 relationships was the one that suffered. It simply burned out or maybe I let it go because I felt more in the other relationship. There was passion there as well, but there was also companionship, friendship, likes and dislikes of the same things. All in all a much more fulfilling relationship in the long run. One that has turned into a very comfortable relationship of over 25 years. We still have passion, but I wonder if that doesn’t come from within me. I have a passion for living so doesn’t it make sense that I would have a passion for loving too?

I, too feel like I have babbled…

Sweet_em, I apologize for not responding to this post sooner. It slipped by me somehow.

Something in here just caught my eye, too. You mentioned that once you were in love with two men, and it appears to have been at the same time. If the definition I have been using holds, then it should be quite possible to love two people at once. It may be difficult to give each sufficient attention but it would still be possible. And maybe ever preferable in some cases.

I wonder if others who have been posting here will be interested in this line of thinking.

It appears to be at least theoretically possible to love two people well at the same time. Does anyone have experience with this to share?

What challenges have you found? How did you overcome them? Has anyone been truly successful having two simultaneous relationships in romantic love?

 

[midwestyankee]

A shameless bump to get the thread back into view.

Re: Loving two people at once.

It appears to be at least theoretically possible to love two people well at the same time. Does anyone have experience with this to share?

What challenges have you found? How did you overcome them? Has anyone been truly successful having two simultaneous relationships in romantic love?

 

[TantaLiza]

Sorry Yankee... seem of late, I can't even manage to have one!! Guess that matches the one I had a couple years ago... my first one. which lasted about 8 months. My daughter's father was a totally different story... ~sigh~

I'll keep lurkin til I have something to comment about tho!!!

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by TantaLiza


I'll keep lurkin til I have something to comment about tho!!!

Another lurker here...just don't have time to get my thoughts together but enjoying the discussion

 

[midwestyankee]

QUOTE]Originally posted by TantaLiza
Sorry Yankee... seem of late, I can't even manage to have one!! Guess that matches the one I had a couple years ago... my first one. which lasted about 8 months. My daughter's father was a totally different story... ~sigh~

I'll keep lurkin til I have something to comment about tho!!! [/QUOTE]

Another lurker here...just don't have time to get my thoughts together but enjoying the discussion

Lurkers are always welcome.

Expecially when they are two intelligent and beautiful women.

And we look forward to hearing from you both again soon.

 

[DLL]

[No message]

 

[Icey*Fire]

A wonderful thread yankee...I just wish I had something enlightenling to add,,something intelligent to contribute,
but I seem to know more of what love 'is not' than what it is.

At one time I thought I knew what it was..but over the years the person I loved above all, killed all of my feelings and showed me that my idea of love was a fairy tale.

I have such love in my heart to give, but I am so scared now to even think of loving anyone after the hurt and betrayal I was delt.

The person I loved more than my life and was the father of my kids, turned away all the love and affection I offered him. He told me it was not his place to make me happy. That if I wanted happiness it was up to me to make myself happy. I did not understand that at the time and I still do not understand years later. I thought that was what we did when we fell in love with someone,,,tried with all our being to make that person happy? He told me one day that he married me...what else did I expect? And he did not 'have' to marry me. We married because I thought we loved each other. Not sure now why he did marry me.

I know that love is NOT ignoring,,lying,,hurting,,cheating,,putting down,,making fun of,,,,the one you love.

I hope that one day I will be able to love someone, I still have a few good years left in me..lol.

But will I know that love when I feel it? Or will I just be reaching out for someone to fill the long lonely hours of my life.

I know this was off your topic, but wanted you to know I read your thread and thought it was very good. It does at least give me hope.

 

[midwestyankee]

A wonderful thread yankee...I just wish I had something enlightenling to add,,something intelligent to contribute,
but I seem to know more of what love 'is not' than what it is.

At one time I thought I knew what it was..but over the years the person I loved above all, killed all of my feelings and showed me that my idea of love was a fairy tale.

I have such love in my heart to give, but I am so scared now to even think of loving anyone after the hurt and betrayal I was delt.

The person I loved more than my life and was the father of my kids, turned away all the love and affection I offered him. He told me it was not his place to make me happy. That if I wanted happiness it was up to me to make myself happy. I did not understand that at the time and I still do not understand years later. I thought that was what we did when we fell in love with someone,,,tried with all our being to make that person happy? He told me one day that he married me...what else did I expect? And he did not 'have' to marry me. We married because I thought we loved each other. Not sure now why he did marry me.

I know that love is NOT ignoring,,lying,,hurting,,cheating,,putting down,,making fun of,,,,the one you love.

I hope that one day I will be able to love someone, I still have a few good years left in me..lol.

But will I know that love when I feel it? Or will I just be reaching out for someone to fill the long lonely hours of my life.

I know this was off your topic, but wanted you to know I read your thread and thought it was very good. It does at least give me hope.

Icey, it's so good to hear from you. And this is not at all off the topic.

There is a very interesting paradox in what your ex said to you. On the one hand, it's true that we are ultimately responsible for our own happiness and should never expect to find our happiness outside of ourselves. It is also the case that to love someone means to commit to helping that person grow. But growth is not the same thing as happiness. I think we achieve our happiness through continued growth. Otherwise life begins to feel stale and we don't know why we aren't happy.

Unfortunately, it sounds as if your ex was not really aware of this paradox but was simply a selfish person.

I can understand the fear of reaching out when you have been badly burned. It can be so very tempting to avoid pain, and yet we learn over and over that by extending ourselves and confronting pain, we find we can handle it and grow as a result. My guess is that if you allow yourself to be open a bit more, you might just notice someone sometime whom you would have ignored otherwise. And he might just be someone with whom you will find what you are missing.

We can wander a garden all night long and find no beauty. But when we allow ourselves to visit the garden at noon, we can be stunned by the glory of the flowers around us.

 

[midwestyankee]

ok heres my 2 cents worth on that topic.......
Q. Can you be in love with two people at the same time?
A. Many people believe love is so exclusive and unique that even entertaining the thought that you're in love with two people means you're not really in love with either. But that's not what I think. The idea that love has to be confined to only one person is a myth, plain and simple. The truth is, most of us don't want to entertain the possibility that our love can extend to two individuals at the same time, because it's scary to imagine such a confusing state of being. Alas, our hearts have a lot more capacity for affection than we give them credit for — or are brave enough to recognize.

Think about it: We can love more than one of our children and parents at any given time, and appreciate each of them for his or her own special attributes. In the same way, different romantic partners offer different things. Let's say you meet someone who is loyal, totally smitten, and offers you personal and economic stability. His good heart and good intentions make you love him. He's what you want. But then you meet a poet. He is soulful, gifted, romantic and impractical. He's the epitome of every romance novel hero. You become friends, you're attracted to him, you dream of him at night. He's what you want.

Impossible? No. Impractical? Yes. And that's why we try to figure out who's the "real" love of our life, so we can end the ambiguity. Of course, the answer might be that both people are "the real thing." Honestly, it's hard to find everything you want in one person. Two mates can be wonderful in completely different ways.

Of course, if you love two different people, you don't have to act on it. Say you spot your old flame at your high school reunion and realize that the relationship embers still smolder. You, a happily married woman, are shocked at your reaction. Well, you needn't be. We hold a special place in our heart for first loves — the ones who got away. It doesn't say anything bad about your marriage; it says only that you had — and have — something special with someone from your past. You can acknowledge that and still be true to your vows.
If you are deeply attached to more than one person, the real question is: Can you be happy just knowing your heart swells with so much love, or do you need to get involved with both individuals — a situation that is likely to prove explosive, even destructive? Your heart is powerful, but your mind can triumph. Once you understand your emotions, it's up to you to decide what to do about them.

DLL, there is much to think about here. Thanks for weighing in so eloquently on the idea of having more than one love.

I hope some others will chime in as well. Particularly on the point you raised about understanding your emotions when dealing with more than one romantic partner. My guess is that in this you have identified one of the chief obstacles to loving more than one person well.

 

[JennyOmanHill]

Re: Re: Love

Jenny, thanks for sharing here. You made some very important points but this was not a ramble.

I especially noted your thoughts on people you call "caretakers." I think many women in my parents' generation (and mine as well) were raised to believe that being a caretaker was their natural role in life. And some people just naturally seem to take on that role. I am close to a family where the mother, two daughters, and a son were all raised to be caretakers and they all had deep trouble loving themselves as well as consequent difficulties in loving others well.

So, for my part, I suspect you're completely right to say that you could not possibly have found yourself in the love you have now without first loving yourself.

Congratulations on your engagement! I'm very happy for you.

Thank you, MidwestYankee

Just realized I could be considered a Midwest Yankee too!

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Re: Re: Love

Thank you, MidwestYankee

Just realized I could be considered a Midwest Yankee too!

You're very welcome.

And I'll say it here before anyone else does: I'm not sure that Lit could stand another midwest yankee.

 

[Shoshisexy]

Sorry, MY, to take so long to post in here after you so eloquently asked me, but It took me a while to read through everything and get my thoughts together. And they still might make no sense.

I, too, believe there is a difference in loving and being in love.

For me, loving comes easy. I love many people in my life, whether they return the love or not. I have a friend that used to be my best friend. We dated for a while, until we realized we loved each other, but were not in love with each other. We continued to be friends for quite a while. I still love him. I do not knowhow he feels as I have not heard from him in some time. But, if he showed up at my door at 6 in the morning, hurting, I would take him in my arms and hold him and talk to him until he was ready to talk to me.

I have two internet friends that live in California. The two of them are lovers in the romantic sense, although I am not sure whether they love each other or are in love with each other. They would like for the three of us to form a trinity. I am honest and I have told them I am not sure I could do it for many and assorted reasons. This does not stop me from loving both of them. I just don't know if I could be in love with both of them.

I have never been in love, although I have loved many people in my life. I would like to be in love with someone. I would like to find companionship, friendship, caring, lust, romance...all in one man. I don't know if that will happen for me, but I am hoping.



Shoshana

 

[midwestyankee]

Sorry, MY, to take so long to post in here after you so eloquently asked me, but It took me a while to read through everything and get my thoughts together. And they still might make no sense.

I, too, believe there is a difference in loving and being in love.

For me, loving comes easy. I love many people in my life, whether they return the love or not. I have a friend that used to be my best friend. We dated for a while, until we realized we loved each other, but were not in love with each other. We continued to be friends for quite a while. I still love him. I do not knowhow he feels as I have not heard from him in some time. But, if he showed up at my door at 6 in the morning, hurting, I would take him in my arms and hold him and talk to him until he was ready to talk to me.

I have two internet friends that live in California. The two of them are lovers in the romantic sense, although I am not sure whether they love each other or are in love with each other. They would like for the three of us to form a trinity. I am honest and I have told them I am not sure I could do it for many and assorted reasons. This does not stop me from loving both of them. I just don't know if I could be in love with both of them.

I have never been in love, although I have loved many people in my life. I would like to be in love with someone. I would like to find companionship, friendship, caring, lust, romance...all in one man. I don't know if that will happen for me, but I am hoping.



Shoshana

Shoshana, first off thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts. This is not an easy subject and I appreciate the effort it takes to put one's thoughts in order. That, of course, is part of the reason the thread exists.

I am interested that you say you have loved others without being in love. Your caring for your former best friend seems to me to be quite like what I have experienced. You hold this person close to heart, in fact he or she has a special part of your heart and probably always will. You connect on a level that neither of you quite understands, and yet you worship the connection. You think nothing of aiding your friend under the most trying conditions and feel joy with his joy, fear with her fear, sadness together. You have committed yourself to this person's well being regardless of sexual attraction. Am I right?

I wonder if you would agree with me that to you it seems that the state of being in love is an all-emcompassing experience shared by two people, each feeling the same thing: that the other is a near-perfect source of emotional nourishment. That is how I read your last paragraph anyway.

You said you weren't sure that your thoughts would make sense, but let me assure you that they do. Please come back to post again soon.

 

[Dhalgren150]

Love ..... part passion, part hate, and part indifference...
blend them and you have eternal all consuming LOVE.

Dhalgren.