Defining Love

[GiveawayGirl]

My version was definitely simplistic.

I don't think the author was suggesting that he had all the answers so from that perspective is clearly simplistic. If I understand you correctly though I think what the author was suggesting was the opposite. Kind of like when we give birthday or Christmas gifts...we should give a gift that we think the recipient will enjoy...not what we like. I think what you've suggested above is that if a sports fanatic gives me tickets to a sports event, that even though I detest sports I should appreciate his intent in giving me something that he thought I would appreciate. Where I would agree I should appreciate the thought in the giving ...I would have appreciated it even more if he knew me well enough to know I have no interest in sports so gave me something I was interested in...instead of what he was interested in.

Guess it depends whose perspective you are looking at it from. The author was suggesting you should give (in your loving actions) what would be perceived as loving actions by the recipient. Not that there is anything wrong with showing your love the way you would like to...but if it's never done in a manner that the receipient recognizes as showing love...then (s)he may start to feel unloved.

WW, I understand exactly what you are saying, and the theory behind the book.

My original comment came from a conversation I once had. When asking someone whether or not they "loved" me, their reply was yes, but that my interpretation of what love is was different than his was. And that our definitions may simply not be compatible.

I've thought on this long and hard for quite some time. While on some level, I believed it to be a cop out on his part because I do believe that if you love someone, you will do things to show them because you want them to know it. At the same time, I question how much of my doubt about this person's love came from my own pigeon-holed expectations of what love should be. And I wonder still today if in loving a person, should I not accept what he has to give instead of expecting something different because it suits me.

The one thing I know with complete certainty from reading all of the posts on this thread is that there is not one answer to any of these questions.

 

[midwestyankee]

The one thing I know with complete certainty from reading all of the posts on this thread is that there is not one answer to any of these questions. [/B]

Aha, I agree!

And that is the whole point of the thread.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Aha, I agree!

And that is the whole point of the thread.

Of course you do, and you are right!

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by GiveawayGirl
WW, I understand exactly what you are saying, and the theory behind the book.

My original comment came from a conversation I once had. When asking someone whether or not they "loved" me, their reply was yes, but that my interpretation of what love is was different than his was. And that our definitions may simply not be compatible.

I've thought on this long and hard for quite some time. While on some level, I believed it to be a cop out on his part because I do believe that if you love someone, you will do things to show them because you want them to know it. At the same time, I question how much of my doubt about this person's love came from my own pigeon-holed expectations of what love should be. And I wonder still today if in loving a person, should I not accept what he has to give instead of expecting something different because it suits me.

The one thing I know with complete certainty from reading all of the posts on this thread is that there is not one answer to any of these questions.

Very interesting GG. Can't say I've ever thought of definitions of love as being incompatible. I have often said trust a person's actions over their words in determining if they love you....since the words "I love you" come easily to some but they don't act like they love you. But what you're suggesting is something else. Food for thought.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Very interesting GG. Can't say I've ever thought of definitions of love as being incompatible. I have often said trust a person's actions over their words in determining if they love you....since the words "I love you" come easily to some but they don't act like they love you. But what you're suggesting is something else. Food for thought.

Honestly, the idea of compatibility may be more an issue of being able to accept love in the way it is being offered without measuring it against what our expectations are.

But of course, I avoid this stuff so what do I know?

 

[midwestyankee]

Very interesting GG. Can't say I've ever thought of definitions of love as being incompatible. I have often said trust a person's actions over their words in determining if they love you....since the words "I love you" come easily to some but they don't act like they love you. But what you're suggesting is something else. Food for thought.

Far be it from me to get in between two intelligent and beautiful women (well, maybe ... ), but I think I'd like to slide a word in edgewise here.

When people come at love with differing definitions or widely differing expectations, then the chance for incompatibility is greatly increased. To use WW's examples, if I am one who believes that love looks like time given to the beloved but my beloved thinks love takes the form of gifts and security, then my use of large amounts of time to be loving seems to be incompatible with my beloved's need for my time. I see these two descriptions (WW's styles and GG's expectations) to be very similar.

I think it was GOS who suggested earlier that communication between lovers is absolutely essential. What I can see happening here, though, is cases where the two might not even understand that each is motivated by love. And therein may lie some of the most stubborn problems in relationships.

So let me raise this question: how difficult is it to ask your beloved what he or she needs and expects from your love?

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Far be it from me to get in between two intelligent and beautiful women (well, maybe ... ), but I think I'd like to slide a word in edgewise here.

When people come at love with differing definitions or widely differing expectations, then the chance for incompatibility is greatly increased. To use WW's examples, if I am one who believes that love looks like time given to the beloved but my beloved thinks love takes the form of gifts and security, then my use of large amounts of time to be loving seems to be incompatible with my beloved's need for my time. I see these two descriptions (WW's styles and GG's expectations) to be very similar.

I think it was GOS who suggested earlier that communication between lovers is absolutely essential. What I can see happening here, though, is cases where the two might not even understand that each is motivated by love. And therein may lie some of the most stubborn problems in relationships.

So let me raise this question: how difficult is it to ask your beloved what he or she needs and expects from your love?

Unless I misunderstand, I don't necessarily think communication is the problem yank. The real question I raise is whether it becomes a compatibility issue when the expectation is that the one you love will love you back in the manner you want them to versus in a way that is expressive and right for them. Flip the coin and consider the same issue. It is right that someone you love expects you to only love them in the way that their expectations demand instead of accepting the love you have to give on its own merits for the gift that it is. If these two don't mesh, can you truly sustain a loving relationship or can you be incompatible based on the way you love someone?

 

[wicked woman]

GG would you give an example of what you mean, if you can do that without getting too personal for you?

 

[GiveawayGirl]

GG would you give an example of what you mean, if you can do that without getting too personal for you?

I sure can try WW

Let's say my expectation of love is expressive, that I want to hear it and be reminded of it regularly.

And the person I love has the expectation that I know it, and that he shows me he loves me in his own, less expressive way.

If my expectation is not being met even though that person loves me truly in the way he best can.....

Should I change my expectations to accept that love for what it is?

or

Do I expect that the person who loves me will change to meet my expectation?

or

Is our love incompatible?

 

[wicked woman]

Originally posted by GiveawayGirl
I sure can try WW

Let's say my expectation of love is expressive, that I want to hear it and be reminded of it regularly.

And the person I love has the expectation that I know it, and that he shows me he loves me in his own, less expressive way.

If my expectation is not being met even though that person loves me truly in the way he best can.....

Should I change my expectations to accept that love for what it is?

or

Do I expect that the person who loves me will change to meet my expectation?

or

Is our love incompatible?

Then that's the same thing I'm talking about...different styles of showing your love....expressing it in words is one of them.

Don't have an answer but if it was a man I was in love with who loved me back I think I'd be working damn hard to see if we could both understand that it's not a question of did we love each other but that we show it in different ways...and some understanding that we need to do both of the things you suggest...I need to understand that my style is different than his...so I should try and show my love in a way that he needs and wants and he should understand that when I show my love for him in my natural way that it may not be his first choice but at least he understands that it's my way if not his.

I'd certainly give that a try before I'd give up on his love.

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Then that's the same thing I'm talking about...different styles of showing your love....expressing it in words is one of them.

Don't have an answer but if it was a man I was in love with who loved me back I think I'd be working damn hard to see if we could both understand that it's not a question of did we love each other but that we show it in different ways...and some understanding that we need to do both of the things you suggest...I need to understand that my style is different than his...so I should try and show my love in a way that he needs and wants and he should understand that when I show my love for him in my natural way that it may not be his first choice but at least he understands that it's my way if not his.

I'd certainly give that a try before I'd give up on his love.

I'm not sure how much I buy into it............

I just thought it was an interesting theory.

 

[69forever]

Ok, I'm jumping in here. I've been in relationships that started with the physical aspect of love, the passion, the sex. That is not enough to sustain a relationship, because when the everyday drudgery of life sets in, there is no foundation to build on.

That foundation is communication, knowing the wants and needs of your partner. Understanding their weaknesses as well as their strengths. Otherwise you're walking into a blind alley.

In our case, we spent countless hours talking and getting to know each other before we even set sight on one another.
Slowly peeling back those layers of mistrust and hurt from before, with that communication, we fell in love. Then when we got together for real, it was like we'd known each other for years.
The foundation was there.

Love cann't be a static thing, it is a dynamic force. Everyone has somewhat different expectations. Communication bridges the gap between those expectations as long as both are willing to compromise in some ways. Just my thoughts.

 

[midwestyankee]

I sure can try WW

Let's say my expectation of love is expressive, that I want to hear it and be reminded of it regularly.

And the person I love has the expectation that I know it, and that he shows me he loves me in his own, less expressive way.

If my expectation is not being met even though that person loves me truly in the way he best can.....

Should I change my expectations to accept that love for what it is?

or

Do I expect that the person who loves me will change to meet my expectation?

or

Is our love incompatible?

Wouldn't it be the loving thing to do in this case to work to help your partner understand how the two of you differ? Of course, this assumes that one of you can see that you differ and can articulate it.

I go back to my original definition of love here: actions taken to assist our beloved in spiritual and emotional growth. It seems to me that greater skill in both giving and receiving love would be a worthy goal of one's growth. Thus, if I love someone whose style or preference for showing love differs greatly from my preference or expectation, then it's important to help my beloved grow so he or she can see how we differ and begin the search for other ways to express that love. Similarly, if I were failing to show my love in a way that my beloved could see clearly or accept, then I would seek to understand why it is that my love isn't being seen.

I think what I see, GG, is that the way people love today is just a static image of them. Some people fail to grow. Others grow and mature in their ability to love and be loved. So to say that two loves are incompatible and thus condemn the pair assumes that people are static. I contend that we should not be static and thus, at least potentially, any two people could find a way to love each other regardless of how they prefer to love at a given time.

 

[TantaLiza]

I want to pose a question/thought....

Why is it that some people seem to find love easier than others? Despite familial love, there is a certain need, possibly more in some than others, to find this type of love from a mate... Do you think it boils down to that person who can't find it surely doesn't love themself?? Are they trying too hard?? Are they not deserving as others seem to be?? How does one define the level of need?? I've often heard that to seek is to find but then I'm told when you do, most often in love, you won't....

Hope this makes sense as I've not slept well...

Have a wonderful day!!

 

[midwestyankee]

I want to pose a question/thought....

Why is it that some people seem to find love easier than others? Despite familial love, there is a certain need, possibly more in some than others, to find this type of love from a mate... Do you think it boils down to that person who can't find it surely doesn't love themself?? Are they trying too hard?? Are they not deserving as others seem to be?? How does one define the level of need?? I've often heard that to seek is to find but then I'm told when you do, most often in love, you won't....

Hope this makes sense as I've not slept well...

Have a wonderful day!!

I will hazard a few guesses as a Monday morning present to you, Liza. First off, it seems to me you already answered your first question with your follow-ups. The answer is all of the above. Some who fail in love do not love themselves and thus are not fully capable of extending themselves to a beloved. Some may try too hard, and in so doing fail to present themselves honestly or may miss important signals from the other.

I'm not sure it's valuable to define the level of need, or maybe I don't quite understand what you mean by that.

As for finding only when you do not seek, bunk. You may not ever find love in the specific places where you look, but you must be open to the possibility (which seems like a seeking mode to me) in order to notice someone and open yourself to him or her.

I can tell you from my experience that I have been profoundly surprised to find myself open to loving someone at times when I did not expect or even feel the need for it. Now, it's quite possible that I had the need and simply was not conscious of it at the time. Still, I was not looking and yet met someone once who had a profound effect on me. I found it became a daily imperative to learn more about her and to allow her to learn more about me. We met and talked for hours, slowly letting our minds and souls intertwine until it was eventually clear that we loved each other. and yet, it was not a good time for this for either of us really. We both agreed we had not been looking and yet had found. But we also discovered that we saw something in each other very early that made us open to the search within each other.

That openness, that willingness to explore another, makes all the difference.

I hope this helps.

 

[Sweet_emOcean]

I have read all of your posts and have agreed with many of them. We all have our own definitions of love. I love deeply so it makes sense to me that this topic of love is such a deep one that we will never be able to truly define it.

I love my spouse, my family, my in laws, my friends, my pets, my life! I love spring until summer. Then I love the heat of summer until fall. Then I love fall for all its color and cool. Then I love winter. Does this make me fickle? No. All of these loves are different. I believe it shows that I have a huge heart and can love many people and things in many ways. Loving someone and being in love are not the same, as has been discussed earlier. I agree with the posters who stated that the first flash of falling in love tends to burn out into a more comfortable love. To me that comfortable love is just as wonderful as the first flash. It may not be as exciting, but it is steady and secure. Personally I think that if you only have lust it will eventually burn out to nothing. I was in love with 2 men once, years ago. Both of them were different, as was my love for each of them. The more passionate of the 2 relationships was the one that suffered. It simply burned out or maybe I let it go because I felt more in the other relationship. There was passion there as well, but there was also companionship, friendship, likes and dislikes of the same things. All in all a much more fulfilling relationship in the long run. One that has turned into a very comfortable relationship of over 25 years. We still have passion, but I wonder if that doesn’t come from within me. I have a passion for living so doesn’t it make sense that I would have a passion for loving too?

I, too feel like I have babbled…

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Wouldn't it be the loving thing to do in this case to work to help your partner understand how the two of you differ? Of course, this assumes that one of you can see that you differ and can articulate it.

I go back to my original definition of love here: actions taken to assist our beloved in spiritual and emotional growth. It seems to me that greater skill in both giving and receiving love would be a worthy goal of one's growth. Thus, if I love someone whose style or preference for showing love differs greatly from my preference or expectation, then it's important to help my beloved grow so he or she can see how we differ and begin the search for other ways to express that love. Similarly, if I were failing to show my love in a way that my beloved could see clearly or accept, then I would seek to understand why it is that my love isn't being seen.

I think what I see, GG, is that the way people love today is just a static image of them. Some people fail to grow. Others grow and mature in their ability to love and be loved. So to say that two loves are incompatible and thus condemn the pair assumes that people are static. I contend that we should not be static and thus, at least potentially, any two people could find a way to love each other regardless of how they prefer to love at a given time.

Yankee, I knew I would regret posting here. I just don't have enough time to keep up this week.

I do understand your point, but my question still remains. Yes, in an ideal world, filled with open, honest, and proactively ideal people, you are completely right. Communication should help to remove the static element of a loving relationship.

Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world, and regular every day people are confounded by issues, and problems, and damaged souls.

If we go back to my example for WW for just a moment and consider it again. What if that person is incapable of showing their love in any other manner due to past hurts that are too deep to heal? What if they are incapable of modifying how they look at love for any number of unavoidable reasons? What if the change you speak of is something that cannot be affected?

Yet, these two people do, each in their own way, love each other deeply.

Is, in fact, that love then incompatible? Are they destined to never be able to make that relationship work?

As I said earlier, it is merely another small aspect of the subject, and food for thought.

 

[midwestyankee]

GG, I can appreciate your feeling there isn't enough time in the day to post to a thread like this. It's not an easy or simple matter to explore.

As for your example, it is more than food for thought. It is a meal of substantial proportion and I will have to digest it for a while before I can respond. But I will. It's far too intriguing to let it sit here unattended.

mwy

 

[GiveawayGirl]

GG, I can appreciate your feeling there isn't enough time in the day to post to a thread like this. It's not an easy or simple matter to explore.

As for your example, it is more than food for thought. It is a meal of substantial proportion and I will have to digest it for a while before I can respond. But I will. It's far too intriguing to let it sit here unattended.

mwy

If I know you at all, of this I have no doubt!

(when have you ever let anything I've said go unchallenged )

 

[JennyOmanHill]

Love

What an interesting thread!

As I've grown older, my definitions of various feelings and things have gotten simpler.

I agree that love comes in all degrees, and that the word itself is used for different meanings.

I am STILL learning about life and love every day.

The greatest lesson I'm STILL studying is that in order to truly love another (or others) you must love yourself first. If you do NOT love yourself, and put your needs first, you will not be able to fully help and love the other people in your life.

I have met many "caretakers", and some of them are great friends of mine. However, by giving so much of themselves to those they love and care about, they have become "lost" somehow, and do not appear to ever be happy (or feel guilty when they manage to find time to do something nice for themselves).

The little word "in" changes the meaning of love so deeply for me. By loving myself, my heart has opened up and allowed a wonderful 'Man to be "in" love with me. It doesn't seem to work if that "in" word isn't mutual (as far as couples go).

"Letting go" is an act of love as well, as I was only able to believe in myself after stopping a relationship where he was unable to use that little word "in" before the word "love". Looking back now, I realize I still love him, and hope that one day he can love himself enough to let another into his life as I did.

Guess with this rambling, my definition isn't sounding very simple!

Each day brings a new color into the word "love" for me. For instance, today "love" will be watching "Dr. Phil"; cleaning the bathroom and starting some laundry!

As I begin this year officially engaged to be married, my future offers many challenges of my feelings of "love". The greatest sensation is being able to look into my 'Man's eyes knowing I'm "in" love with him (on good days and bad ones), and actually seeing his love FOR me reflecting back to me.

I don't think I would have had this experience if I didn't begin to love myself first.

And I thought my answer would be a quick one!

 

[TantaLiza]

I guess I can understand your clarification, Yankee... maybe at that early time this morning, I wasn't quite ready to post coherently... lol

Now I have to ask this... as a single mother, I have to put my child first much of the time. If this is the case, how do I "allow" myself to be first without feeling guilt? How can I justify me above her? As many have stated, you have to have a love of self and must learn to put yourself first... I do "love" myself but have a tendency to always come in last, which in turn may truly be a hindrance in the long run... I'm up for any and every suggestion, here or PM... this plagues me and I don't know how to deal with it!

Thank you! And again, forgive me if it's not stated quite clearly...

 

[GiveawayGirl]

I guess I can understand your clarification, Yankee... maybe at that early time this morning, I wasn't quite ready to post coherently... lol

Now I have to ask this... as a single mother, I have to put my child first much of the time. If this is the case, how do I "allow" myself to be first without feeling guilt? How can I justify me above her? As many have stated, you have to have a love of self and must learn to put yourself first... I do "love" myself but have a tendency to always come in last, which in turn may truly be a hindrance in the long run... I'm up for any and every suggestion, here or PM... this plagues me and I don't know how to deal with it!

Thank you! And again, forgive me if it's not stated quite clearly...

This one I can speak to with reasonable assurance that I'm not in over my head!

It's all about balances. Putting yourself first once in awhile is nothing to feel guilt about. If your children are well cared for, know they are loved, and have all they need, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with a little time for mommy. Sometimes it may not always come at the most convenient time, but the times will come if you let them.

Look at it this way. If you were sick and unable to keep up with them, wouldn't you see a doctor, get some rest, and allow yourself to recuperate? Even if it meant that they didn't get all the quality mommy time they wanted?

Caring for your heart is just as important. You cannot love and care for them properly if you do not allow yourself some love and care.

At least this is what works for me

 

[TantaLiza]

Thank you, GG.... from that perspective, I could feel guiltless. The problem I have I guess is defined partway by this statement of yours...

"Caring for your heart is just as important. You cannot love and care for them properly if you do not allow yourself some love and care."

I know there are people that do "love and care" but somehow it's different when it's just family in your life....

 

[GiveawayGirl]

Thank you, GG.... from that perspective, I could feel guiltless. The problem I have I guess is defined partway by this statement of yours...

"Caring for your heart is just as important. You cannot love and care for them properly if you do not allow yourself some love and care."

I know there are people that do "love and care" but somehow it's different when it's just family in your life....

I firmly believe that every person in this life needs to have at least one person who loves them just because they do. Not because they have to, or because they are related. Just because loving that person makes their life better. Love without obligation is the key to making us realize we are special in our own way.

 

[midwestyankee]

I firmly believe that every person in this life needs to have at least one person who loves them just because they do. Not because they have to, or because they are related. Just because loving that person makes their life better. Love without obligation is the key to making us realize we are special in our own way.

GG, for someone who vowed to make a single post here and then go on her merry way, you seem to have made yourself at home

And I could not have come close to saying this as well as you did. You have added a lot of wisdom and clear thinking lately.

As much as I expect to rue that I said this, I'm glad you decided to stick around. It's making a big difference in the thread.