Cussing & Discussing Robert Heinlein's Works

[KHAN-E]

There are a lot of "opinionated scientists" running around - spouting "facts" that are NOT at all scientific.

"Yesterday's heresy is today's science and will become tomorrow's disguarded, outdated, and outmoded mistake." - Khan-E

Feel free to quote me.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Can I lead an interplanetary settlement of beautiful, sexy, and very sexual Amazons? (Except we would all have BOTH breasts! And we wouldn't use bows and arrows.)

Or maybe a Matriachal society, women in charge of EVERYTHING. Men as servants and playthings. (Actually, I think that would get boring after a while. But some women would LUV it!)

I LUV men too much to go for a Lesbos or Sapho society, but they'd be nice places to visit.

I might like to be an elf. Especially if I looked like Liv Tyler (even though her character is NOT in the books!!!).

Hon, you can be anyone you want as long as I get to share your life's adventures for I am always restless and you are NEVER boring! I like the idea of amazons, want to gang up on Wonder Woman together? I think she need a really good licking after getting nothing but shit in her 50 years' worth of comics!

Pilgrim

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Science and Super Bowl

There are a lot of "opinionated scientists" running around - spouting "facts" that are NOT at all scientific.

"Yesterday's heresy is today's science and will become tomorrow's disguarded, outdated, and outmoded mistake." - Khan-E

Feel free to quote me.

I will go a step futher. Science is a elimination competition like Super Bowl or other sports. All ideas and theories start out roughly equal. It take a tough competition to thin out the herd as the weak and foolish get killed off and the stronger is thrown againest the stronger through a series of harder testing. Finally, the best meet in a Super Bowl to contest for the prize of be labeled "Natural Law". Even then, the year's champion must go through another series with next year's harder challengers. It is never-ending. That's why efforts to blend religion and science are doomed to fail. Religion is fat and happy and full of lard because it don't like having to work to win. It want everything on its plate now and they want respect without having to earn it. Rather like a spoiled brat. Like all spoiled brats, dogmatic religions tends to throw a fit when it can't win.

Science will win out always because it's in workout every single day while religion make a weak pass at some work on one day a week and then stay for hours gossipping and eating dongnuts!

Notice that by religion I mean a system of ideas, symbols and rituals. Spritiuality is much more different because it's very anarchic and individualitic which mean that some goddless artist can be very spiritual while hardheadhead about facts and is will to drop bad idea or you can have a catholic who thinks she see virgin mary EVERY where!

 

[KHAN-E]

Hon, you can be anyone you want as long as I get to share your life's adventures for I am always restless and you are NEVER boring! I like the idea of amazons, want to gang up on Wonder Woman together? I think she need a really good licking after getting nothing but shit in her 50 years' worth of comics!

Pilgrim

I agree about Wonder Woman. From the time I discovered sex (at age 18, of course), I always felt that what Wonder Woman needed was a good ORGASM! She always seemed so uptight.

In retrospect, I think it was the male writers who caused the problem. They didn't know how to write and portray the full emotional range of a woman. Still, a good sex scene would certainly have livened things up. I'd still read comics if they had more SEX!!!

 

[sensualpilgrim]

I agree about Wonder Woman. From the time I discovered sex (at age 18, of course), I always felt that what Wonder Woman needed was a good ORGASM! She always seemed so uptight.

In retrospect, I think it was the male writers who caused the problem. They didn't know how to write and portray the full emotional range of a woman. Still, a good sex scene would certainly have livened things up. I'd still read comics if they had more SEX!!!

Actually, Woder Woman's creator was into bondage, woman's power anda secret poly life (in salon.com). If you read his early wartime books, there's a lot of tying up which can be pretty sexual in Freudian terms. But after he left the title to go back to his psycholoy work, it was took over by uptight writers who didn't know what to do with a strong woman.

For my cents, I would make Wonder Woman bisexual because she grew up on an island full of women and they have to get off somehow! Maybe even with her mother!

 

[Nathon_88]

I agree about Wonder Woman. From the time I discovered sex (at age 18, of course), I always felt that what Wonder Woman needed was a good ORGASM! She always seemed so uptight.

In retrospect, I think it was the male writers who caused the problem. They didn't know how to write and portray the full emotional range of a woman. Still, a good sex scene would certainly have livened things up. I'd still read comics if they had more SEX!!!

*chuckles* Go to Marvel....They chucked the comics code, and it's really noticable at times.

They're at about a PG-13 rating now.

 

[SlyFox]

Today's Aphorisms

I think Wonder Woman would make a delightful companion, spouse, soul mate or whatever if it weren't for that damn lasso of her's - Can you imagine always having to tell the absolute truth about everything??? i.e. "Honey, does this dress make me look fat" or "Be honest! You think her boobs are prettier than mine, don't you?" Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

From “Time Enough For Love” by Robert A. Heinlein © 1973 All rights reserved:

It has long been known that one horse can run faster than another - but which one? Differences are crucial.

A fake fortuneteller can te tolerated. But an authentic soothsayer should be shot on sight. Cassandra did not get half the kicking around she deserved.

Delusions are often functional. A mother's opinions about her children's beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera ad nauseam, keep her from drowning them at birth.

Kahn-e, that last one might give you some insights to the delima you've been talking about lately...

SlyFox

 

[SlyFox]

More Heinlein Homilies

From “Time Enough For Love” by Robert A. Heinlein © 1973 All rights reserved.

"Most 'scientists' are bottle washers and button sorters"

"A 'pacisifist male' is a contradiction in terms. Most self-described 'pacificists' are not pacific; they simply assume false colors. When the wind changes, they hoist the Jolly Roger."

[Although this may be a non sequitor (sp?) and and an invitation to flaming attacks, I think that statement would apply to male "anti-abortionist, Right to Lifers" as well. If males ever attain the dubious ability of becoming pregnant and bearing children (especially if it's againt their will) - then and only then will they have the moral standing to tell women what they can and cannot legally do with their own bodies.]

"Nursing does not diminish the beauty of a woman's breasts; it enhances their charm by making them look lived in and happy."

I couldn't agree more. Maybe because the sight of a woman nursing a baby is so erotic is the very reason it is considered by our society and culture to be "obscene" and "indecent exposure"... What a bunch of bull ka ka..

SlyFox

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Liv Tyler in LOTR

Can I lead an interplanetary settlement of beautiful, sexy, and very sexual Amazons? (Except we would all have BOTH breasts! And we wouldn't use bows and arrows.)

Or maybe a Matriachal society, women in charge of EVERYTHING. Men as servants and playthings. (Actually, I think that would get boring after a while. But some women would LUV it!)

I LUV men too much to go for a Lesbos or Sapho society, but they'd be nice places to visit.

I might like to be an elf. Especially if I looked like Liv Tyler (even though her character is NOT in the books!!!).

Actually, her character IN in the book! Look in back of The Return of the King. You will find in Appendix A (v): "Here Follows a part of the tale of Aragorn and Arwen" pg. 1032

 

[SlyFox]

More Heinlein Homilies

From “Time Enough For Love” by Robert A. Heinlein © 1973 All rights reserved.

"A generation which ignores history has no past - and no future."

"A poet who reads his verse in public may have other nasty habits."

Yeah... Just ask Laura Bush (According to the news, she recently cancelled a scheduled "poetry reading" at the White House by prominent literary figures because she didn't want it "politicised" - i.e. "anti Iraq war" sentiments being expressed...)

"What a wonderful world it is that has girls in it"

"Small change can often be found under seat cushions."

Hell, that's what I lived on when I was going to school.

My copy of Time Enough For Love is literally falling apart. Looks like I'm going to have to spring for a new copy if I can find one...

SlyFox

 

[KHAN-E]

Actually, Woder Woman's creator was into bondage, woman's power anda secret poly life (in salon.com). If you read his early wartime books, there's a lot of tying up which can be pretty sexual in Freudian terms. But after he left the title to go back to his psycholoy work, it was took over by uptight writers who didn't know what to do with a strong woman.

For my cents, I would make Wonder Woman bisexual because she grew up on an island full of women and they have to get off somehow! Maybe even with her mother!

Maybe you should write and draw a new "Origins" issue and submit it to DC. Tell them you have some guarenteed sales. I'd buy a number of copies - for myself and distribution to some of my friends.

A young Wonder Woman being taught the pleasures of sex by her mother and her mother's friends sounds like my kind of comic!

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Today's Aphorisms

I think Wonder Woman would make a delightful companion, spouse, soul mate or whatever if it weren't for that damn lasso of her's - Can you imagine always having to tell the absolute truth about everything??? i.e. "Honey, does this dress make me look fat" or "Be honest! You think her boobs are prettier than mine, don't you?" Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

I could use a lasso like that! It would help keep you guys in line. Maybe I ought to BE Wonder Woman. I wonder if DC would let us do a movie version - updated to Lit. sensibilities,of course.

Delusions are often functional. A mother's opinions about he children's beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera, ad nauseam, keep her from drowning them at birth.

I know some of those children. In fact, I probably was one of those children. Maybe I still am.

Thanks for including that one, Sly. I'm much to busy with MY life right now to even seriously consider having a child. My "raw nerve" has healed (at least for now).

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Liv Tyler in LOTR

Actually, her character IN in the book! Look in back of The Return of the King. You will find in Appendix A (v): "Here Follows a part of the tale of Aragorn and Arwen" pg. 1032

One point for you. She is in the book. What I meant is that she is NOT in the book, AS she is in the film. The film's chronology is wrong for her character. For example, she was not involved in the Flight to the Ford", though in the movie she was the heroine of the event.

The filmmakers took some liberty to create a "Love Interest" for Strider.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Liv Tyler in LOTR

One point for you. She is in the book. What I meant is that she is NOT in the book, AS she is in the film. The film's chronology is wrong for her character. For example, she was not involved in the Flight to the Ford", though in the movie she was the heroine of the event.

The filmmakers took some liberty to create a "Love Interest" for Strider.

True true, Connie, but seriously, would you rather have such a kissable elf princess riding the horse (and maybe getting her pussy wet from all that rough hair on horse back?) or a male elf who you are going to see for 80% of the movie? What I really want to see is Arwen being used as a object of gang-bang by her lover, her father, her granmother, and the fellowship. Think what I can do with that staff! Maybe there should be a porn call the Fellowship of Arwen's Pussy!

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Origins of Wonder Woman

Maybe you should write and draw a new "Origins" issue and submit it to DC. Tell them you have some guarenteed sales. I'd buy a number of copies - for myself and distribution to some of my friends.

A young Wonder Woman being taught the pleasures of sex by her mother and her mother's friends sounds like my kind of comic!

I'm game for this. I also want to write about how Ronnie and Betty got pissed enough about Archie's cheating heart and discovered that their best friendship have bloomed into a passionate, lusty affair between the Riverdale girls as they discovered their bisexuality. They have many wonderful sex for the first time in their lives. Even daddy Logan approved of Ronnie's new relationship because it will keep Archie out of his hair! But then after the hot months of lust passed the girls realized that they really did love Archie and so they form a threesome and after graudation, they create a communel marriage. I also want to rewrite the story of Virgin Mary by starring how Princess Mary become a beautiful and talented temple harlot for the greek goddess of love, and how Zeus fucked her pussy as a swan from which she got a son Jesus who grew up to become her lover and consort after 40 days and 40 nights of wedding fucking. Then later, Mary and her two triple sisters also named Marys brought her son back to life by the magic of blow job (which put the whole idea of coming back to life in diffrent light, dosen't it? )

 

[SlyFox]

Re: Origins of Wonder Woman

I'm game for this. I also want to write about how Ronnie and Betty got pissed enough about Archie's cheating heart and discovered that their best friendship have bloomed into a passionate, lusty affair between the Riverdale girls as they discovered their bisexuality. They have many wonderful sex for the first time in their lives. Even daddy Logan approved of Ronnie's new relationship because it will keep Archie out of his hair! But then after the hot months of lust passed the girls realized that they really did love Archie and so they form a threesome and after graudation, they create a communel marriage. I also want to rewrite the story of Virgin Mary by starring how Princess Mary become a beautiful and talented temple harlot for the greek goddess of love, and how Zeus fucked her pussy as a swan from which she got a son Jesus who grew up to become her lover and consort after 40 days and 40 nights of wedding fucking. Then later, Mary and her two triple sisters also named Marys brought her son back to life by the magic of blow job (which put the whole idea of coming back to life in diffrent light, dosen't it? )

Pilgrim you're just begging to be lynched - literally - by the "Bible Pounders" of the "Christian"??? right wingers (not to mention the comic book crazies). "Balsphemy" is the second most common cause for getting one's ass killed in any society or culture - "civilized" or not - The first is simply being "different" and I think you'd qualify on both counts. Keep up the good work...

SlyFox

 

[SlyFox]

Today's Heinlein Aphorisms

From “Time Enough For Love” by Robert A. Heinlein © 1973 All rights reserved.

"History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it"

[See my response to SensousPilgrim (above) for my take on this "homily" ]

"It's amazing how much "mature wisdom" resembles being too tired."

"If you don't like yourself, you can't like other people."

"Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in mind; it may offer a way to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate - and quickly"

Do you suppose that last one would apply to Saddam and Osama? Or just maybe, it applies to George Dubya...???

SlyFox

 

[Nathon_88]

Re: Origins of Wonder Woman

I'm game for this. I also want to write about how Ronnie and Betty got pissed enough about Archie's cheating heart and discovered that their best friendship have bloomed into a passionate, lusty affair between the Riverdale girls as they discovered their bisexuality. They have many wonderful sex for the first time in their lives. Even daddy Logan approved of Ronnie's new relationship because it will keep Archie out of his hair! But then after the hot months of lust passed the girls realized that they really did love Archie and so they form a threesome and after graudation, they create a communel marriage. I also want to rewrite the story of Virgin Mary by starring how Princess Mary become a beautiful and talented temple harlot for the greek goddess of love, and how Zeus fucked her pussy as a swan from which she got a son Jesus who grew up to become her lover and consort after 40 days and 40 nights of wedding fucking. Then later, Mary and her two triple sisters also named Marys brought her son back to life by the magic of blow job (which put the whole idea of coming back to life in diffrent light, dosen't it? )

.......Wow.......You stay out of my mind.

*hugs* That, or contact me and lets compare scripts.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Origins of Wonder Woman

Pilgrim you're just begging to be lynched - literally - by the "Bible Pounders" of the "Christian"??? right wingers (not to mention the comic book crazies). "Balsphemy" is the second most common cause for getting one's ass killed in any society or culture - "civilized" or not - The first is simply being "different" and I think you'd qualify on both counts. Keep up the good work...

SlyFox

Who? Me? (looking around)

Actually all of Christian myths are nothing but pagan myths. I would go so far as to call Christians "pagans." In fact most of the ideas that make for Judo-Christianity are all the ideas of a crazy Persian mystic 3,000 years ago! Try "Jesus Mysteries" in a bookstore and you can see how pagan Jesus is really. It dosen't cover the persian roots , however. One of the great thing about Gnostics, the first Christians (the Catholics came later, really!), is that they were perfectly free to change and mix things because they know that the myths are just about ideas anyway. Even that BJ from Mary is not different from Isis fucking her dead and dismembered hubby Orisis.

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Re: Re: Liv Tyler in LOTR

True true, Connie, but seriously, would you rather have such a kissable elf princess riding the horse (and maybe getting her pussy wet from all that rough hair on horse back?) or a male elf who you are going to see for 80% of the movie? What I really want to see is Arwen being used as a object of gang-bang by her lover, her father, her granmother, and the fellowship. Think what I can do with that staff! Maybe there should be a porn call the Fellowship of Arwen's Pussy!

Maybe that's going to be in the third movie!!!

But, I doubt it!!

Maybe we should film our own pornographic version. But, somehow that seems disrespectful to Tolkein.

No, we probably could make a hardcore version of some of Heinlein's works without deviating much from the novels. "Friday", "To Sail Beyond the Sunset", "The Number of the Beast", and "Stanger in a Strange Land" all CUM to mind.

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Origins of Wonder Woman

I'm game for this. I also want to write about how Ronnie and Betty got pissed enough about Archie's cheating heart and discovered that their best friendship have bloomed into a passionate, lusty affair between the Riverdale girls as they discovered their bisexuality. They have many wonderful sex for the first time in their lives. Even daddy Logan approved of Ronnie's new relationship because it will keep Archie out of his hair! But then after the hot months of lust passed the girls realized that they really did love Archie and so they form a threesome and after graudation, they create a communel marriage.

Ever see the comic, "Cherry", aka "Cherry Poptart"? It is comic porn drawn in a very "Archie" style.

Cherry is a high school student, aged 18 (same age rule as Lit.), who is oversexed. Her mother is even more oversexed. Some HOT stuff!

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Re: Origins of Wonder Woman

Ever see the comic, "Cherry", aka "Cherry Poptart"? It is comic porn drawn in a very "Archie" style.

Cherry is a high school student, aged 18 (same age rule as Lit.), who is oversexed. Her mother is even more oversexed. Some HOT stuff!

Yes I have. She's in every store not located in Bible belt and then some. I like the stories which tends more to cute than erotic. At same time, I do think that art is nowhere near the level of art found in Archie's, especially when the art was done by an unknow artist whose name I could never find out no matter where I look. His art have wonderful simplicity, very minimal and sparing line drawing but amazingly expressive and slapstick in a way that they seem normal and middle-class. Even better is its design in which he never go for very detailed background but is empty, borderless white space or plain shape in a way that suggest pop art and op art. His art is often associated with Jughead who seem to be at his best when under this pen. The girls are refreshingly mature and curvey and having forceful personality with style.. I think this guy was clearly influenced by Chuck Close of Warner Bros cartoons like Road Runner.

Pilgrim

 

[SlyFox]

Comics

How the hell did a "discussion" of Heinlein's work evolve into a discussion of the comics. Not that I'm opposed to comics, mind you - especially "erotic" comics but shouldn't we start a new thread devoted to that subject??? [Oh, NO... I did it again - suggested another thread - What the hell was I thinking??? ]

Today's Heinlein contribution:

From “Time Enough For Love” by Robert A. Heinlein © 1973 All rights reserved.

"A motion to adjourn is always in order."

That one is definitely appropo for me as I have to chair far too many @#$%^&*() meetings....

"No state has an inherent right to survive through conscript troops and, in the long run, no state ever has. Roman matrons used to say to their sones: 'Come back with your shield, or on it.' Later on this custom declined. So did Rome."

Of all the strange 'crimes' that human beings have legislated out of nothing, 'blasphemy' is the most amazing - with 'obscenity' and 'indecent exposure' fighting it out for second and third place."

Hmmmm... So that's where I got that conviction...

SlyFox

 

[sensualpilgrim]

Re: Comics

How the hell did a "discussion" of Heinlein's work evolve into a discussion of the comics. Not that I'm opposed to comics, mind you - especially "erotic" comics but shouldn't we start a new thread devoted to that subject??? [Oh, NO... I did it again - suggested another thread - What the hell was I thinking??? ]

Today's Heinlein contribution:

From “Time Enough For Love” by Robert A. Heinlein © 1973 All rights reserved.

"A motion to adjourn is always in order."

That one is definitely appropo for me as I have to chair far too many @#$%^&*() meetings....

"No state has an inherent right to survive through conscript troops and, in the long run, no state ever has. Roman matrons used to say to their sones: 'Come back with your shield, or on it.' Later on this custom declined. So did Rome."

Of all the strange 'crimes' that human beings have legislated out of nothing, 'blasphemy' is the most amazing - with 'obscenity' and 'indecent exposure' fighting it out for second and third place."

Hmmmm... So that's where I got that conviction...

SlyFox

Because as it so happened, many of sci-fic fans also like or loves comics and one things I would like to do is to translate Heinlein to comic books to make up for the crap we see in the movies!

Pilgrim

 

[KHAN-E]

Re: Comics

"A motion to adjourn is always in order."

That one is definitely appropo for me as I have to chair far too many @#$%^&*() meetings....

SlyFox

I was in a meeting recently where some girl thought she was being cute and moved to adjourn right at the very beginning of the meeting. The Chair had to entertain that motion, after explaining that passing such a motion sould mean that no business could be done at the meeting. The motion, naturally, failed.

However, when the meeting was over, almost two hours later, I began to think immediate adjournment wasn't such a bad idea.