Could a human do hand-to-hand combat against a grizzly bear?

[Sonny Limatina]

someone burnt the toast......

This is might surpass his "I meant to quote the Declaration of Independence while calling it the Constitution" performance--which I thought was safe at the head of the Moron List.

 

[semen4her]

Cut him some slack. He grew up among the famous "punching bears" of Indiana.

I am looking online for a bear for sale that has no claws as we speak.

 

[eyer]

This is might surpass his "I meant to quote the Declaration of Independence while calling it the Constitution" performance--which I thought was safe at the head of the Moron List.

[ ^ swipe ^ ]

So...

...you still the deny the Constitution was established by the framers to protect, preserve, and defend the unalienable individual rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness the founders announced in the Declaration of Independence.

[ ^ direct hit ^ ]

A "paw" "swipe" wouldn't kill...

...a claw "swipe" would definitely do some damage.

No doubt I should've posted:

A "paw" "swipe" wouldn't necessarily kill...

...to better match:

...a claw "swipe' would definitely do some damage.

BTW:

Is it true circus bears are seriously and sometimes even totally declawed?

Though, I haven't yet heard of Ringling actually depawing bears...

...why in the world would that be?

 

[Solid Muldoon]

Any you mooks ever tried to pick up a cat that didn't want to be picked up? A five pound cat? How'd that work out for ya?

Now imagine that cat weighs half a ton.

I used to read them Tarzan books where Tarzan would put a lion in a Full Nelson. Yeah, right. Ever see a cat scratch the back of his head? You're on the back of his head.

You'd be hamburg in seconds flat.

 

[Super-Surprise]

Any you mooks ever tried to pick up a cat that didn't want to be picked up? A five pound cat? How'd that work out for ya?

I once tried to pick up this "Kat"! Was just a little too slippery!


http://img01.xmissymedia.com/galleries/pixmix/20110720_MIX360/PixMix360-img011.gif

 

[Peregrinator]

Complete fabrication - dying bull at the slaughter house...

Mas Oyama was a showman and self-inventor of his own mythologies. He was also Korean...

Well, all I have for what I posted and what you posted is "someone says." I'm way, way inclined to believe you, however. The story I cited has always struck me as apocryphal at the very least. I'll stand by my statement, however; "IF true, he might have been able to slightly inconvenience a grizzly..."

 

[Peregrinator]

I read somewhere that if you dug a very large pit and tossed in a prime example of all of the large and powerful animals (lion, tiger, Cape Buffalo, grizzly bear etc.) that the only one that would crawl out would be the polar bear. There is simply no animal on earth that can take one down (armed humans being the exception).

Males can be up to 1500 lbs. (I've heard of one report of a 1650 lb polar bear.) And they aren't afraid of anything...including nuclear submarines.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f5/Polar_bears_near_north_pole.jpg/800px-Polar_bears_near_north_pole.jpg

That freaky show on I think Discovery Channel that does computer-animated animal-v-animal duels did one with a griz and a tiger once. The conclusion was one "swipe" broke the tiger's neck and killed it. Polar bears are without equal on land for power and stealth. There just ain't anything in their class. Siberian tigers are probably next in line.

 

[Peregrinator]

If you toss in an elephant - it wins easily against any land animal (and often has won against even humans armed with firearms). The Polar bear or Kodiak Brown would be disassembled, and trampled into red dust if pitted against an elephant.

Now THAT would be interesting. The sheer mass of the elephant might indeed tell out. I have to wonder.

 

[Peregrinator]

swipe (swp)
n.
1. A sweeping blow or stroke.
2. Informal A critical remark.
3. A lever, especially one that raises the bucket in a well.
v. swiped, swip·ing, swipes
v.tr.
1. To hit with a sweeping motion.
2. To pass (a swipe card) through an electronic reader.
3. Informal To steal; filch. See Synonyms at steal.
v.intr.
To make a sweeping stroke.

When you swing a baseball bat (regardless if you choose to describe that motion as "sweeping" or brutal or anxious or whatever) and "swipe" the ball, most probably it will result in a foul tip, a pop up, or an easy-out grounder...

...more serious damage - a line-drive base hit, a home run - will not be done.

The reason being physics, as I pointed out above: a "swipe" by anything - bat, axe, kick, crash, brush, punch, bear paw - naturally results in less contact made by any of those examples.

If I take a "swipe" at you, it is understood - figuratively and literally - that that achieves much, much less effect than achieving a direct hit...

...because not enough contact to do "direct hit" damage was made.

Besides, it seems to me a bear's motion with its arms is much more akin to concentrated swatting than your insistence of some sweeping swipe...

...if a bear engages in what you prefer to term "a sweeping motion", the damage that motion will do to me depends on whether s/he just swiped me or actually made meaningful contact.

...ask a fly which it would better prefer.

And in that vein...

...which would you prefer:

To be swiped by a bear's clawless paw...

To be swiped by a bear's claws...

Or to be directly impacted by a bear's clawed paw?

Rate them in order of probable damage done...

Give up, please. A "sweeping blow or stroke" from an animal as powerful as a griz would knock your baseball out of the park, whether it was on this side or t'other of the foul pole.

 

[eyer]

Give up, please. A "sweeping blow or stroke" from an animal as powerful as a griz would knock your baseball out of the park, whether it was on this side or t'other of the foul pole.

Only if it was a solid hit...

...and not just a "swipe".

But, I digress...

Of the seven that were attacked in the most recent episode, how many were "knocked out of the park" by "a sweeping blow or stroke"?

"They came face-to-face with the worst Alaska had to offer, and they're able to say they survived it."

"Basically it was so fast and vicious..."

"In all, six teens were injured, but none as seriously as Berg and Gottsegen. They remained hospitalized in Alaska in serious and good conditions respectively." (I've also read reports of four injured and five injured...)

"One patient had two sucking chest wounds from getting bit in the chest," and both were pretty well chewed on"...

"Both are expected to recover, though Stuemke compared the wounds they suffered to the sort of thing he'd seen in combat in Afghanistan."

"worst injured with bear bite wounds".

"Berg and Samuel Gottsegen were the most seriously injured with bite wounds."

1st attacked and most seriously injured: Joshua Berg - today upgraded from serious to fair condition; "Despite being seriously injured in the assault, Berg remembered his NOLS training: If attacked by a sow grizzly, play dead. He did." "That's when the bear left him alone and went after the rest of the group." Besides being bitten, one report listed him with a cracked skull.

2nd attacked (although I've also read reported that Allaire was actually attacked 2nd): Sam Gottsegen - listed in good condition; bitten on the head and chest, punctured lung, two broken ribs.

Noah Allaire - "The aftermath and the wait were scarier than the attack itself, even, even though that seems hard to fathom," Allaire said; "Allaire remained at the Palmer hospital with injuries Palmer said he did not know. Allaire was listed in good condition".

Victor Martin - "he ran when he saw the bear but fell and was attacked. Martin kicked the bear until he was able to break free and ran up a hill"; treated for a bite wound above his ankle and released. (One would probably think a bear getting kicked would most probably retaliate with "a sweeping blow or stroke", huh?)

I can find no other specific injuries to any of the other 3 in the group.

Evidently, mauling is - overwhelmingly - the most frequent form of actual injuries and causes of death in rare attacks by grizzly bears.

If you exclude the maulings, none of the injuries suffered is anything alien to most high school football towns in America on a Friday night...

A "paw" "swipe" wouldn't kill...

...a claw "swipe" would definitely do some damage.

There were no deaths from this grizzly attack, let alone any from a "paw" "swipe"

So yeah...

...in a rare encounter with a grizzly bear in the wild, if it's not going to be frightened of me enough to retreat and it attacks me, I'll take getting "swiped" by its paw any day.

A nice, soft swat with the paw(s) would be the next preferable...

...but that's just me.

I shall await you providing evidence of a "paw" "swipe" - as opposed to a claw "swipe" or any other means of grizzly attack - killing anyone...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

A grizz has been eating a friend's chickens. I believe there are small children in the 'hood. Time to keep the shotgun by the door loaded with 12 ga. 3" Mag Brenneke Black Magic Slugs.

Ya'll have me so paranoid that I'd want an RPG by the door...

 

[Frisco_Slug_Esq]

Well, all I have for what I posted and what you posted is "someone says." I'm way, way inclined to believe you, however. The story I cited has always struck me as apocryphal at the very least. I'll stand by my statement, however; "IF true, he might have been able to slightly inconvenience a grizzly..."

It's in Mark Bishop's book as well as a few other sources.

I dunno...



I stand by my RPG.

 

[niceguyfrank]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVS1UfCfxlU

 

[kbate]

Now THAT would be interesting. The sheer mass of the elephant might indeed tell out. I have to wonder.

My last 'white hunter' described a Crocodile vs. Elephant battle he witnessed.

The croc - attacked and bit the elephant on the leg - presumably using its patented and incredibly successful "bite, sink, roll" method. The elephant, wrapped its trunk around the crocodile and beat it into a red bloody pulp on the nearest rock and went back to drinking water.

The bear wouldn't last as long as the croc - it has no armoured skin and weighs about half what the croc weighs.

 

[shoulderblade]

Are they an endangered species? Aren't there laws protecting endangered species and making it a felony offense to hunt them?

As far as I know they are an endangered species in the US but not in Canada.

 

[hobbit.]

And fricking laser beams!

they take the fun out of it.

 

[Peregrinator]

Only if it was a solid hit...

...and not just a "swipe".

But, I digress...

Of the seven that were attacked in the most recent episode, how many were "knocked out of the park" by "a sweeping blow or stroke"?

"They came face-to-face with the worst Alaska had to offer, and they're able to say they survived it."

"Basically it was so fast and vicious..."

"In all, six teens were injured, but none as seriously as Berg and Gottsegen. They remained hospitalized in Alaska in serious and good conditions respectively." (I've also read reports of four injured and five injured...)

"One patient had two sucking chest wounds from getting bit in the chest," and both were pretty well chewed on"...

"Both are expected to recover, though Stuemke compared the wounds they suffered to the sort of thing he'd seen in combat in Afghanistan."

"worst injured with bear bite wounds".

"Berg and Samuel Gottsegen were the most seriously injured with bite wounds."

1st attacked and most seriously injured: Joshua Berg - today upgraded from serious to fair condition; "Despite being seriously injured in the assault, Berg remembered his NOLS training: If attacked by a sow grizzly, play dead. He did." "That's when the bear left him alone and went after the rest of the group." Besides being bitten, one report listed him with a cracked skull.

2nd attacked (although I've also read reported that Allaire was actually attacked 2nd): Sam Gottsegen - listed in good condition; bitten on the head and chest, punctured lung, two broken ribs.

Noah Allaire - "The aftermath and the wait were scarier than the attack itself, even, even though that seems hard to fathom," Allaire said; "Allaire remained at the Palmer hospital with injuries Palmer said he did not know. Allaire was listed in good condition".

Victor Martin - "he ran when he saw the bear but fell and was attacked. Martin kicked the bear until he was able to break free and ran up a hill"; treated for a bite wound above his ankle and released. (One would probably think a bear getting kicked would most probably retaliate with "a sweeping blow or stroke", huh?)

I can find no other specific injuries to any of the other 3 in the group.

Evidently, mauling is - overwhelmingly - the most frequent form of actual injuries and causes of death in rare attacks by grizzly bears.

If you exclude the maulings, none of the injuries suffered is anything alien to most high school football towns in America on a Friday night...



There were no deaths from this grizzly attack, let alone any from a "paw" "swipe"

So yeah...

...in a rare encounter with a grizzly bear in the wild, if it's not going to be frightened of me enough to retreat and it attacks me, I'll take getting "swiped" by its paw any day.

A nice, soft swat with the paw(s) would be the next preferable...

...but that's just me.

I shall await you providing evidence of a "paw" "swipe" - as opposed to a claw "swipe" or any other means of grizzly attack - killing anyone...

Jesus fucking Christ, eyer. Has anyone pointed out to you yet that bears have non-retractable claws?

It's in Mark Bishop's book as well as a few other sources.

I dunno...



I stand by my RPG.

RPG's are too slow and single shot. I'd want something I could deploy fast that would spray death at a few thousand rounds a second. Something like an MP5.

My last 'white hunter' described a Crocodile vs. Elephant battle he witnessed.

The croc - attacked and bit the elephant on the leg - presumably using its patented and incredibly successful "bite, sink, roll" method. The elephant, wrapped its trunk around the crocodile and beat it into a red bloody pulp on the nearest rock and went back to drinking water.

The bear wouldn't last as long as the croc - it has no armoured skin and weighs about half what the croc weighs.

We could get silly and speculate all day about this, but then we'd be eyer. I wonder if the bear wouldn't be able to hang on to the elephant. Crocs basically only have one weapon. And that croc was evidently developmentally delayed, having decided to attack a fucking elephant of all things. But you're probably right; the elephant's mass would be beyond the bear's capacity.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Those kids wouldn't have been mauled if Pookie had been there.

 

[kbate]

J

We could get silly and speculate all day about this, but then we'd be eyer. I wonder if the bear wouldn't be able to hang on to the elephant. Crocs basically only have one weapon. And that croc was evidently developmentally delayed, having decided to attack a fucking elephant of all things. But you're probably right; the elephant's mass would be beyond the bear's capacity.

Yes. Let us not get silly in this thread and discuss ridiculous things.

Let us instead post odds on the Pit fight.

Elephant: 1:9
Brown Bear: 22:1
Rhino: 4:1
Polar Bear: 20:1
Cape Buffalo: 25:1
Human Being (fists only): 25000:1
Crocodile: 50:1
Shark with Laser Beams: 8:1
Human with .357 Pistol: 12:1
Human with RPG: 2:1
LovingTongue: 1:3

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Kbate once said she'd throw her kids to the bear if they couldn't run fast enough.

 

[Sonny Limatina]

Yes. Let us not get silly in this thread and discuss ridiculous things.

Let us instead post odds on the Pit fight.

Elephant: 1:9
Brown Bear: 22:1
Rhino: 4:1
Polar Bear: 20:1
Cape Buffalo: 25:1
Human Being (fists only): 25000:1
Crocodile: 50:1
Shark with Laser Beams: 8:1
Human with .357 Pistol: 12:1
Human with RPG: 2:1
LovingTongue: 1:3

I'm not so sure about those human-being odds. Would the bear be punching, or merely swiping?

 

[Peregrinator]

Yes. Let us not get silly in this thread and discuss ridiculous things.

Let us instead post odds on the Pit fight.

Elephant: 1:9
Brown Bear: 22:1
Rhino: 4:1
Polar Bear: 20:1
Cape Buffalo: 25:1
Human Being (fists only): 25000:1
Crocodile: 50:1
Shark with Laser Beams: 8:1
Human with .357 Pistol: 12:1
Human with RPG: 2:1
LovingTongue: 1:3

Well, this is serious business, like all of Mike's threads. I assume the pit is heated and that's why you gave the polar lower odds than the brown?

I'm not so sure about those human-being odds. Would the bear be punching, or merely swiping?

It's just about time for this video to be linked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84bBzAxLXFY

 

[kbate]

I'm not so sure about those human-being odds. Would the bear be punching, or merely swiping?

I'm going to go ahead and appoint you as referee and announcer and let you climb into the pit to tell me just what kind of moves each bear chooses to utilise.

Please make certain that none use unfair moves such as a judo toss -- such might skew the odds.

 

[kbate]

Well, this is serious business, like all of Mike's threads. I assume the pit is heated and that's why you gave the polar lower odds than the brown?


It's just about time for this video to be linked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84bBzAxLXFY

Depends. I am granting the more vicious reputation the brown bear has will gain more punts - therefore I have to lower his odds to protect my book. I have also not yet rented the bears and could easily end up with 20 year old brown at 1500 pounds and a 8 year old polar bear at 900. Hard to tell until the post parade.

 

[thør]

Depends. I am granting the more vicious reputation the brown bear has will gain more punts - therefore I have to lower his odds to protect my book. I have also not yet rented the bears and could easily end up with 20 year old brown at 1500 pounds and a 8 year old polar bear at 900. Hard to tell until the post parade.

What of the pizzley bear? Is it the best or the worst of both?