Consequential Time Lines

[Beco]

Bwahahahahaha. Thanks for my morning laugh.

Its not far from the truth Zippy

 

[linuxgeek]

That's what good propaganda does to you.

Ishmael's carefully constructed revisionist history of Katrina has one and only one purpose: Protect the President.

Don't need propaganda. I was paying close attention to what NHC puts out and have a bit better than layman knowledge of weather. If Nagan had listened to what the pros were telling him and done his job, a lot fewer people would have died. When it comes to getting people moved out of an area, whether by their own means or by gov moving them, every hour counts.

When it came to the initial protection of the population, the duty fell on the local and state governments. The response after landfall fell on the Federal government. FEMA failed because it had a political kissass as a leader. Bush is the one who put the incompetant leadership in FEMA while passing out politicial favors.

The government fuckups with Katrina start at the local level and happened all the way up to the whitehouse. Party is not the issue. The fuckers in the possitions of authority did not do their job.

 

[zipman]

Its not far from the truth Zippy

It has nothing to do with "liberals" but with the extremists from both the conservative and liberal ends of the spectrum each tend to disregard facts and logic when evaluating policy and issues.

Not seeing that pretty much ensures you are at one of that spectrum.

 

[Ishmael]

Don't need propaganda. I was paying close attention to what NHC puts out and have a bit better than layman knowledge of weather. If Nagan had listened to what the pros were telling him and done his job, a lot fewer people would have died. When it comes to getting people moved out of an area, whether by their own means or by gov moving them, every hour counts.

When it came to the initial protection of the population, the duty fell on the local and state governments. The response after landfall fell on the Federal government. FEMA failed because it had a political kissass as a leader. Bush is the one who put the incompetant leadership in FEMA while passing out politicial favors.

The government fuckups with Katrina start at the local level and happened all the way up to the whitehouse. Party is not the issue. The fuckers in the possitions of authority did not do their job.

Ya know linux, Katrina was a huge catastrophe. All sorts of mistakes were made at all levels. Decisions were made, or not made, and actions were taken, or not, that had consequences. Some consequences were more dire than others.

You and I can disagree about Bush. And we do. But you know as well as I that to heap all the blame on Bush when so little of the really dire fuck ups were within his sphere of control destroys the accusers credibility.

But more importantly, unless this disaster is looked at dispassionately. Unless all the fuck ups are honestly identified, unless the pure political agendas are dropped, it's not going to get fixed and it's going to happen again.

I'd like to see someone discredit the time line and actions if they can. I've been able to trace news articles or testimony for every salient point.

Ishmael

 

[sweet soft kiss]

Nagel was elected by Democrats I assume. The same kinds that repeatedly elect Sheila Jackson Lee to office, arguably the dumbest person in politics.

LMAO... That's my mom's mantra whenever she sees Sheila pop up on the tube...

As for the time line, there was very little there that I hadn't read of before. The only true surprise was that there was food and water brought into the Superdome before hand. Admittedly it wasn't enough, but there should have been enough to feed everyone for at least 1.5 days. If the Red Cross had been allowed to set up a mobile kitchen the problem of unfed people there would have been negated, no matter what other problems there was at the Superdome.

 

[linuxgeek]

You and I can disagree about Bush. And we do. But you know as well as I that to heap all the blame on Bush when so little of the really dire fuck ups were within his sphere of control destroys the accusers credibility.

Ishmael

My main issues with bush as far as the Katrina response are:

*bush putting someone in lead of FEMA who should have never been in that position but was there because bush was passing out political favors.

*how long it took bush to recognize the cluster fuck the overall federal response was under Brown and finally doing something, anything, to unfuck the federal portion of the response.

 

[Ishmael]

My main issues with bush as far as the Katrina response are:

*bush putting someone in lead of FEMA who should have never been in that position but was there because bush was passing out political favors.

*how long it took bush to recognize the cluster fuck the overall federal response was under Brown and finally doing something, anything, to unfuck the federal portion of the response.

Yup as far as Brown goes. He did well in the position as long as they were writing checks and had co-operative state officials. He wasn't up to the job when Nagin and Blanco turned into encompetents.

I think Bush recognized it, it was the doing something about it that was about a day slow. Why? I don't have a clue.

But the fact of the matter is that the big dust up in New Orleans was the Super Dome and the evacuation thereof. And as late as Friday after the storm Blanco still refused to turn it over to the federalized military. OK, she's in charge. So who's fault is that cluster fuck?

Ishmael

 

[linuxgeek]

But the fact of the matter is that the big dust up in New Orleans was the Super Dome and the evacuation thereof. And as late as Friday after the storm Blanco still refused to turn it over to the federalized military. OK, she's in charge. So who's fault is that cluster fuck?

Ishmael

I'm still trying to figure out why she didnt' send in the National Guard. One purpose on a state level of the National Guard is to suppliment law enforcement. Louisiana is one of the states tapped a bit more when it comes to NG troops deployed to Iraq and Afgan, but it is not like she didn't have troops at her disposal to send in.

As I understand it, when the US Army was finally allowed in, they actualy went in unarmed. At least from the one interview I heard with a sgt, their M-16's are slung and do not have a magazine. I was not able to determine from the inteview whether magazines were at least available even if they were not loaded. If there was a crime commited, they primarily served as transport for regular law enforcement to the scene. Supposedly, if they witness an unlawful act, they are allowed to interceed, but with what? Harsh language? Run the perp(s) over with a duce and a half?

 

[Slowlane]

I think I already said that the time line was no surprise to me. Anyone watching the events as they happened could put it together.

And while we are blaming everybody, lets not forget to blame the idiots who could have gotten out but didn’t. There were hundreds of unused auto’s along the streets when the water went down. Ultimately, the first step in your safety is your own responsibility.

I’ll even go so far as to guess that some of them (few I would hope) stayed because they could smell a possible looting spree.

 

[Ishmael]

I'm still trying to figure out why she didnt' send in the National Guard. One purpose on a state level of the National Guard is to suppliment law enforcement. Louisiana is one of the states tapped a bit more when it comes to NG troops deployed to Iraq and Afgan, but it is not like she didn't have troops at her disposal to send in.

As I understand it, when the US Army was finally allowed in, they actualy went in unarmed. At least from the one interview I heard with a sgt, their M-16's are slung and do not have a magazine. I was not able to determine from the inteview whether magazines were at least available even if they were not loaded. If there was a crime commited, they primarily served as transport for regular law enforcement to the scene. Supposedly, if they witness an unlawful act, they are allowed to interceed, but with what? Harsh language? Run the perp(s) over with a duce and a half?

Bayonet charge of course. :avery:

Posse Comitatus dude. No federalized military can engage in ANY police activity in ANY state unless the president invokes the Insurrection Act. In which case martial law is in power within the boundaries of the states named in the executive order. The governor would become a prisoner in her mansion. (Not literally, but figuratively.)

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

I think I already said that the time line was no surprise to me. Anyone watching the events as they happened could put it together.

And while we are blaming everybody, lets not forget to blame the idiots who could have gotten out but didn’t. There were hundreds of unused auto’s along the streets when the water went down. Ultimately, the first step in your safety is your own responsibility.

I’ll even go so far as to guess that some of them (few I would hope) stayed because they could smell a possible looting spree.

Most of those folks were cradle to grave welfare babies. They did what they've always done (and been trained to do) sit on their asses and cry for help.

And you're right about the looting. Many of the gangs were setting up their own little fiefdoms. That's what all the shooting was about.

Ishmael