Caning Question
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Lamont Cranston
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Yeah, that million dollar question is different with each person and every time you get together. Thanks for the reminder.
serijules
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ARGH, pet peeve alert...please don't consider dowel rods to be canes. There is absolutely no comparison. A splintery length of cheap ass wood is not a cane, no matter what you do to "treat" it beforehand.
Check out this essay by Old Tom. He is one of the most skilled caners I have ever seen and had the pleasure of being caned by (with the exception of my Owner
) His passion is working with newbies regarding the cane, either teaching the top or helping the bottom discover it.
http://www.old-tom.com/stories/caneteach.html
He has a lot of info on types of canes, how to care for them, how to practice, etc.
One thing to remember is that cane marks can last for MONTHS. One caning I got years ago, the marks lasted for 2 years...and they were not cuts, they were just deep welts like the picture in Geoff's AV. Usually my cane marks last at least a few months. It may just be my body but it's something to keep in mind (although I don't usually mark or bruise easily or for long at all, just with canes there are thin lines that take forever to fade long after the bruising and puffiness and redness is gone).
I have some writings on my feelings the first few times being caned too, if you are interested. May give you some emotional insight to what may be experienced.
Check out this essay by Old Tom. He is one of the most skilled caners I have ever seen and had the pleasure of being caned by (with the exception of my Owner
) His passion is working with newbies regarding the cane, either teaching the top or helping the bottom discover it. http://www.old-tom.com/stories/caneteach.html
He has a lot of info on types of canes, how to care for them, how to practice, etc.
One thing to remember is that cane marks can last for MONTHS. One caning I got years ago, the marks lasted for 2 years...and they were not cuts, they were just deep welts like the picture in Geoff's AV. Usually my cane marks last at least a few months. It may just be my body but it's something to keep in mind (although I don't usually mark or bruise easily or for long at all, just with canes there are thin lines that take forever to fade long after the bruising and puffiness and redness is gone).
I have some writings on my feelings the first few times being caned too, if you are interested. May give you some emotional insight to what may be experienced.
catalina_francisco
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Welcome to the joys of caning. As far as safety and choices go, you can find some good info in the Our Bodies, Our Brains thread, in particular post #33 and #34 on the second page. As to personal taste and experience, I would not start with anything other than a thinner (though not too thin) rattan cane. I know there are a huge variety of options available commercially these days, including plastics and steel, but I am a bit of a puritan and love everything about traditional canes and their outcomes, and am not a big fan of things such as thick dowel simply because they can be dangerous with the slightest misjudgement, and to a large degree lack the flexibility you can find even in a thicker cane. I also don't particularly like the idea of steel and brittle plastics, so would only approach them with care. Our canes are 6mm, 8mm, 10mm, 12mm, 14mm in thickness which gives a wide variety for varying the sensations and outcomes.
As to testing on oneself. This is an old and well promoted theory of approach to new things introduced to SM play, and F has used it extensively himself, but it needs to be used with a couple of things foremost at the front of your brain when applying your knowledge to another. Firstly, hitting yourself is never, I repeat never, the same sensation as getting it from someone else, so using that as a form of judgement as to how it feels fails to a degree once you are dishing it out to another. Secoondly, no matter who you are, how it feels to you even if someone else is administering it to get past the difference between hitting yourself and being hit by another, everyone processes and experiences sensation and pain differently....so while it may not feel bad to you, or might hurt like hell, to another bottom the outcome may be vastly the opposite. To then try and tell them otherwise or judge them for their reaction compared to yours is bordering on ignorance of basic physiology.
As to practicing on inanimate objects. This is fine if it gives you a sense of security, and once again it is popular to recommend, but it is reliant on how you learn best, how you interpret the information gained in relation to applying it to a living, breathing being, and being able to transition between those states. Hitting a pillow can only let you get used to the feel of the cane in your hand and how you swing it, with a non-moving, silent target....that changes when you have a live target. I have found common sense and knowledge works better for me, but then I can be an impatient bitch when I have to do something new. I know when F ordered me to top others, I never got around to practising on anything, including him though there were moments i would have loved to have him volunteer just so he could experience some of what I was feeling.
I used my knowledge as a recipient, the knowledge of what the bottom expected and was hoping for, what their past experience was, basic technique and physiology, and a lot of instinct. As can be seen by the pics I posted, I did not go easy on the willing treasure, and he was far from upset and damaged saying he totally loved it and begged for more. Most important thing you can remember is to watch, listen, and not get carried away with what you are doing to the point of overlooking what is happening to the one at the end of the cane. It is also wise to take into account sometimes they might not tell you if it is becoming too much for a variety of reasons, even the fact they may not realise it themselves at the time or just not want to disappoint or seem wimpy. Have fun exploring and we are always happy to look at pics. 
Catalina
As to testing on oneself. This is an old and well promoted theory of approach to new things introduced to SM play, and F has used it extensively himself, but it needs to be used with a couple of things foremost at the front of your brain when applying your knowledge to another. Firstly, hitting yourself is never, I repeat never, the same sensation as getting it from someone else, so using that as a form of judgement as to how it feels fails to a degree once you are dishing it out to another. Secoondly, no matter who you are, how it feels to you even if someone else is administering it to get past the difference between hitting yourself and being hit by another, everyone processes and experiences sensation and pain differently....so while it may not feel bad to you, or might hurt like hell, to another bottom the outcome may be vastly the opposite. To then try and tell them otherwise or judge them for their reaction compared to yours is bordering on ignorance of basic physiology.
As to practicing on inanimate objects. This is fine if it gives you a sense of security, and once again it is popular to recommend, but it is reliant on how you learn best, how you interpret the information gained in relation to applying it to a living, breathing being, and being able to transition between those states. Hitting a pillow can only let you get used to the feel of the cane in your hand and how you swing it, with a non-moving, silent target....that changes when you have a live target. I have found common sense and knowledge works better for me, but then I can be an impatient bitch when I have to do something new. I know when F ordered me to top others, I never got around to practising on anything, including him though there were moments i would have loved to have him volunteer just so he could experience some of what I was feeling.
I used my knowledge as a recipient, the knowledge of what the bottom expected and was hoping for, what their past experience was, basic technique and physiology, and a lot of instinct. As can be seen by the pics I posted, I did not go easy on the willing treasure, and he was far from upset and damaged saying he totally loved it and begged for more. Most important thing you can remember is to watch, listen, and not get carried away with what you are doing to the point of overlooking what is happening to the one at the end of the cane. It is also wise to take into account sometimes they might not tell you if it is becoming too much for a variety of reasons, even the fact they may not realise it themselves at the time or just not want to disappoint or seem wimpy. Have fun exploring and we are always happy to look at pics. Catalina
Lamont Cranston
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Catalina & Serijules
Thank you both for sharing your thoughts and information. It is appreciated.
Thank you both for sharing your thoughts and information. It is appreciated.
myinnerslut
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Evil_Geoff said:
you know... canes terrify me. id always thought id never ever want to be struck with one of those. and then you say this and get me thingking... a cane doesnt have to be a big fancy thing bought for the purpose of hitting someone. A , being the clever man he is, uses these to leave those pretty red lines across my ass (that hurts like a bitch). now i say that its closer to a cane then im comfortable admitting.
http://www.firetoys.co.uk/juggling/Devil_Stick_Hand_Sticks.html
ETA just clarifying, NOT a cane, just closer then id care to come to a cane
Last edited:
Evil_Geoff
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serijules said:
Not that I mind getting credit, but it's Sir Winston's av with the seriously caned hiney...
Mine's the red headed, red bearded, tattoo'ed guy in front of a cross!
Sir_Winston54
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The hiney's prettier IMO.Evil_Geoff said:Not that I mind getting credit, but it's Sir Winston's av with the seriously caned hiney...
ecstaticsub
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I don't have a whole lot of experience but I found it odd that with the one caning I recieved it didn't hurt that much while it was going on (and he iced me down immediately fterwards too which felt wonderful!) but the next day hurt extremely! My ass continued to hurt for the next week. On the other hand a good beating with a strap hurts as it is being done more than the canng but it doesn't hurt as much the next day.
I'm not sure which I prefer, though obviously it is not up to me.
I'm not sure which I prefer, though obviously it is not up to me.
Lamont Cranston
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ecstaticsub, I think that speaks to the heart of the matter, the million dollar question posed by Netzach. Whether it is a 'simple' spanking or something more intense the reactions / feelings on the top and bottom side of the equation depend on so many things.
I have not caned someone -- and may not get that experience -- but I have spanked / paddled / other things and have learned that the reaction and the feeling are different depending on the person, the moment and the reaction. Personally, I think it is about knowing each other -- beyond the obvious trust that must be there. In my experience there is a difference between erotic and punishment pain that is based on both the mental and physical application of either one.
My most important observation so far is that the difference between erotic and punishment seems to be determined by the mindset of both people before the first blow is struck. Other's might disagree with me, but I find the mental / emotional knowledge and control is the central part of all the experiences shared in a D/s relationship -- and the intensity of each experience.
I have not caned someone -- and may not get that experience -- but I have spanked / paddled / other things and have learned that the reaction and the feeling are different depending on the person, the moment and the reaction. Personally, I think it is about knowing each other -- beyond the obvious trust that must be there. In my experience there is a difference between erotic and punishment pain that is based on both the mental and physical application of either one.
My most important observation so far is that the difference between erotic and punishment seems to be determined by the mindset of both people before the first blow is struck. Other's might disagree with me, but I find the mental / emotional knowledge and control is the central part of all the experiences shared in a D/s relationship -- and the intensity of each experience.
neonflux
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I have really enjoyed reading this thread - so much expert advice, I think I've already read it carefully twice. I have a play partner that is also relatively new, still building skills, and we've talked about doing caning practice on each other. Netzach, will definitely check out that book.
QUESTION: I am about to start building a small cane collection, but due to budgetary constraints need to be careful. I have read about aluminum canes, and am interested in buying one because of the added possibilities of temperature play (sort of a two-for-one deal). I did look at one at Madam S - it was very light, flexible, and seemed through my jeans that it would have a nice sting, but their prices are just so high... Any experience / advice? I don't want to fork out the dough and then find that I am sorry I made my purchase.
Neon
P.S., I thought of making my own but living in a studio with cats, didn't want to expose them to the fumes. maybe after I move in with ~D...
QUESTION: I am about to start building a small cane collection, but due to budgetary constraints need to be careful. I have read about aluminum canes, and am interested in buying one because of the added possibilities of temperature play (sort of a two-for-one deal). I did look at one at Madam S - it was very light, flexible, and seemed through my jeans that it would have a nice sting, but their prices are just so high... Any experience / advice? I don't want to fork out the dough and then find that I am sorry I made my purchase.
NeonP.S., I thought of making my own but living in a studio with cats, didn't want to expose them to the fumes. maybe after I move in with ~D...
neonflux
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Just a note in case you don't know about the "Kinky Flea?" Lady Thorn's SM Flea in San Francisco, 942 Mission Street (between 5th and 6th streets - parking is easy during the weekends), 2pm to 5pm, $5 admission. Open to ages 18+. It's a great place to get toys cheaply. The next one is on Sunday, August 12.Lamont Cranston said:
Neon
Lamont Cranston
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neonflux said:Just a note in case you don't know about the "Kinky Flea?" Lady Thorn's SM Flea in San Francisco, 942 Mission Street (between 5th and 6th streets - parking is easy during the weekends), 2pm to 5pm, $5 admission. Open to ages 18+. It's a great place to get toys cheaply. The next one is on Sunday, August 12.
Thanks. I didn't know about that. I'll have to go check it out.
serijules
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Proper rattan canes are not "big fancy things"..they are extremely cheap if you are willing to prep them yourself and don't want a fancy handle or whatnot. What you pay for when you pay $20-40 for a cane is someone else doing the prep work and handle weaving themselves.
I'm only going to say this once more than I will shut the fuck up about it, but a dowel rod is not a cane. I am rather surprised Geoff even considers using one as such as I usually consider him pretty well versed in safety issues.
Dowel rods have no flexibility and if they DO flex, they will crack, splinter and break. Rattan is used in caning because it IS flexible and when treated properly, it can withstand a hell of a lot without breaking. A properly treated rattan cane can be bent nearly entirly in half without breaking. Thus why it is used in caning.
There is a reason why no experienced caner out there uses dowel rods as canes, and it isn't because they have a fancy expensive collection...it's because they know better. Sure, if you are just playing tap tap, a dowel rod is an option, but caning is not "tap tap" play.
This is one area I am admittedly a snob on because I do have a lot of experience in this area and I have zero tolerance for lack of common sense and safety when it comes to canes. You can do a hell of a lot of damage with them if you don't know what the fuck you are doing.
Untreated rattan canes can be bought at Hansons Paddles and other kink stores for $12 a bundle or something like that. They are not necessarily expensive toys.
I'm only going to say this once more than I will shut the fuck up about it, but a dowel rod is not a cane. I am rather surprised Geoff even considers using one as such as I usually consider him pretty well versed in safety issues.
Dowel rods have no flexibility and if they DO flex, they will crack, splinter and break. Rattan is used in caning because it IS flexible and when treated properly, it can withstand a hell of a lot without breaking. A properly treated rattan cane can be bent nearly entirly in half without breaking. Thus why it is used in caning.
There is a reason why no experienced caner out there uses dowel rods as canes, and it isn't because they have a fancy expensive collection...it's because they know better. Sure, if you are just playing tap tap, a dowel rod is an option, but caning is not "tap tap" play.
This is one area I am admittedly a snob on because I do have a lot of experience in this area and I have zero tolerance for lack of common sense and safety when it comes to canes. You can do a hell of a lot of damage with them if you don't know what the fuck you are doing.
Untreated rattan canes can be bought at Hansons Paddles and other kink stores for $12 a bundle or something like that. They are not necessarily expensive toys.
serijules
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Evil_Geoff said:Not that I mind getting credit, but it's Sir Winston's av with the seriously caned hiney...
Sorry, I get you two mixed up because you are two people I enjoy reading posts from a lot lol
Lamont Cranston
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Thank you
Serijules,
I'm not going to get into the debate. I read your links and thoughts on caning and really appreciated it and learned quite a bit. I'm heading into the city today to go look at the 'real' deal. I may never get to or want to use it but I'm going to have a couple just in case.
Again, thanks for sharing -- and I dont think you should shut up if you feel strongly about something.
Also, my thanks to everyone for their thoughts and advice. You've been very kind.
Serijules,
I'm not going to get into the debate. I read your links and thoughts on caning and really appreciated it and learned quite a bit. I'm heading into the city today to go look at the 'real' deal. I may never get to or want to use it but I'm going to have a couple just in case.
Again, thanks for sharing -- and I dont think you should shut up if you feel strongly about something.
Also, my thanks to everyone for their thoughts and advice. You've been very kind.
catalina_francisco
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neonflux said:I have really enjoyed reading this thread - so much expert advice, I think I've already read it carefully twice. I have a play partner that is also relatively new, still building skills, and we've talked about doing caning practice on each other. Netzach, will definitely check out that book.
QUESTION: I am about to start building a small cane collection, but due to budgetary constraints need to be careful. I have read about aluminum canes, and am interested in buying one because of the added possibilities of temperature play (sort of a two-for-one deal). I did look at one at Madam S - it was very light, flexible, and seemed through my jeans that it would have a nice sting, but their prices are just so high... Any experience / advice? I don't want to fork out the dough and then find that I am sorry I made my purchase.
P.S., I thought of making my own but living in a studio with cats, didn't want to expose them to the fumes. maybe after I move in with ~D...
What fumes? It really is the most inexpensive way to go to make your own, and from personal experience I can tell you it ends up meaning a lot more than a commercially purchased one, thus lending that touch more impact...sort of lends that personal, intimate touch. I have posted how to do it somewhere on here but can't remember which thread, but if you want any help I am more than happy to share the steps with you. I'm with serijules in that anything used for caning should first be flexible, secondly darn near foolproof as far as breaking and/or splintering goes. It is one of the reasons I am not a big fan of the newer plastic models....I have seen that type plastic break and would not like to see the damage if it just happened to have a flaw that made it happen on contact with a sub's flesh.
Catalina
neonflux
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Cat, I remember your instructions - I thought that they were great. But I thought that there was some varnishing involved? I think that was what concerned me... Re: the aluminum - it's very flexible and I assume because it's metal would be splinter proof? I appreciate the advice on plastics as I did find one at Madam S that I liked. Would hate to leave a splinter like that in a bottom's flesh...catalina_francisco said:What fumes? It really is the most inexpensive way to go to make your own, and from personal experience I can tell you it ends up meaning a lot more than a commercially purchased one, thus lending that touch more impact...sort of lends that personal, intimate touch. I have posted how to do it somewhere on here but can't remember which thread, but if you want any help I am more than happy to share the steps with you. I'm with serijules in that anything used for caning should first be flexible, secondly darn near foolproof as far as breaking and/or splintering goes. It is one of the reasons I am not a big fan of the newer plastic models....I have seen that type plastic break and would not like to see the damage if it just happened to have a flaw that made it happen on contact with a sub's flesh.
Catalina
Neon
catalina_francisco
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neonflux said:Cat, I remember your instructions - I thought that they were great. But I thought that there was some varnishing involved? I think that was what concerned me... Re: the aluminum - it's very flexible and I assume because it's metal would be splinter proof? I appreciate the advice on plastics as I did find one at Madam S that I liked. Would hate to leave a splinter like that in a bottom's flesh...
Yes, I put a couple of coats of clear type varnish on them but from memory it didn't have any fumes. I did hang them in an airy place though so they would dry quicker, so maybe that was it. I must admit, I am surprised ours have lasted the distance so well. They have had plenty of use, been dragged across the planet, and are still going strong....wooden spoons on the other hand get broken on my butt at annoyingly regular intervals.
Catalina
Evil_Geoff
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Hi seri,
We'll have to agree to disagree on whether or not "dowel rods" qualify as canes. Thin dowels, bundled together are a wonderful toy. I use them for "birching"... Delrin is even more flexible than rattan, you can tie the thinner delrin rods into a knot, but talk about an absolute bitch to control! Ugh!
I have had rattan and bamboo canes break... the bamboo splintered, the rattan I was able to cut off and use but it is now a short cane and I tend to use the curved end... I've never had a dowel rod break or splinter. I have gotten into the habit now of working a toy or tool up from light to heavy force so I know what it's structural limitations are. I also tend to use hardwood dowels for the specific reason that in the sizes I prefer, they flex, but they don't flex a lot. But then again, I'm not fond of the machine-gun style "spray and pray" caning technique. I'm very deliberate.
stroke...
observe... (maybe 3 -4 seconds)
rub... rub some more...
stroke...
Repeat, getting more intense over time.
Then maybe I'll switch to a light, stingy cane and do maybe 20 rapid fire strokes to finish the scene.
It all depends on what effect you are wanting to achieve.
So far, I haven't gotten any complaints about the dowel rods, and I have turned several submissives who were afraid of canes into raving fans. So you will pardon me if I don't go and throw my 5 - 6 various size dowel rods out of the toy bag. And if you and I ever have the chance to play, I would like the opportunity to let you sample the rods in the hands of someone competent in using them.
We'll have to agree to disagree on whether or not "dowel rods" qualify as canes. Thin dowels, bundled together are a wonderful toy. I use them for "birching"... Delrin is even more flexible than rattan, you can tie the thinner delrin rods into a knot, but talk about an absolute bitch to control! Ugh!
I have had rattan and bamboo canes break... the bamboo splintered, the rattan I was able to cut off and use but it is now a short cane and I tend to use the curved end... I've never had a dowel rod break or splinter. I have gotten into the habit now of working a toy or tool up from light to heavy force so I know what it's structural limitations are. I also tend to use hardwood dowels for the specific reason that in the sizes I prefer, they flex, but they don't flex a lot. But then again, I'm not fond of the machine-gun style "spray and pray" caning technique. I'm very deliberate.
stroke...
observe... (maybe 3 -4 seconds)
rub... rub some more...
stroke...
Repeat, getting more intense over time.
Then maybe I'll switch to a light, stingy cane and do maybe 20 rapid fire strokes to finish the scene.
It all depends on what effect you are wanting to achieve.
So far, I haven't gotten any complaints about the dowel rods, and I have turned several submissives who were afraid of canes into raving fans. So you will pardon me if I don't go and throw my 5 - 6 various size dowel rods out of the toy bag. And if you and I ever have the chance to play, I would like the opportunity to let you sample the rods in the hands of someone competent in using them.
Ebonyfire
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Evil_Geoff said:Hi seri,
We'll have to agree to disagree on whether or not "dowel rods" qualify as canes. Thin dowels, bundled together are a wonderful toy. I use them for "birching"... Delrin is even more flexible than rattan, you can tie the thinner delrin rods into a knot, but talk about an absolute bitch to control! Ugh!
I have had rattan and bamboo canes break... the bamboo splintered, the rattan I was able to cut off and use but it is now a short cane and I tend to use the curved end... I've never had a dowel rod break or splinter. I have gotten into the habit now of working a toy or tool up from light to heavy force so I know what it's structural limitations are. I also tend to use hardwood dowels for the specific reason that in the sizes I prefer, they flex, but they don't flex a lot. But then again, I'm not fond of the machine-gun style "spray and pray" caning technique. I'm very deliberate.
stroke...
observe... (maybe 3 -4 seconds)
rub... rub some more...
stroke...
Repeat, getting more intense over time.
Then maybe I'll switch to a light, stingy cane and do maybe 20 rapid fire strokes to finish the scene.
It all depends on what effect you are wanting to achieve.
So far, I haven't gotten any complaints about the dowel rods, and I have turned several submissives who were afraid of canes into raving fans. So you will pardon me if I don't go and throw my 5 - 6 various size dowel rods out of the toy bag. And if you and I ever have the chance to play, I would like the opportunity to let you sample the rods in the hands of someone competent in using them.
I think I have posted this tip back in the day, but the plastic dowel rods that are attached to miniblinds work especially well too. They leave marks just like a cane, and it feels just a stingy. You can get replacement ones at Walmart for under 5 - 10 bucks.
Netzach
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I've been caned with a dowel impromptu. It wasn't sucky but it wasn't as good as rattan. You just couldn't go as hard with it or as specific.
I listen to my ass, generally. My rattans were about $20 each. I am generally a crafty DIY making stuff person and because I do that for a living I pay other people to make my canes.
I listen to my ass, generally. My rattans were about $20 each. I am generally a crafty DIY making stuff person and because I do that for a living I pay other people to make my canes.
serijules
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Evil_Geoff said:Hi seri,
We'll have to agree to disagree on whether or not "dowel rods" qualify as canes. Thin dowels, bundled together are a wonderful toy. I use them for "birching"... Delrin is even more flexible than rattan, you can tie the thinner delrin rods into a knot, but talk about an absolute bitch to control! Ugh!
I have had rattan and bamboo canes break... the bamboo splintered, the rattan I was able to cut off and use but it is now a short cane and I tend to use the curved end... I've never had a dowel rod break or splinter. I have gotten into the habit now of working a toy or tool up from light to heavy force so I know what it's structural limitations are. I also tend to use hardwood dowels for the specific reason that in the sizes I prefer, they flex, but they don't flex a lot. But then again, I'm not fond of the machine-gun style "spray and pray" caning technique. I'm very deliberate.
stroke...
observe... (maybe 3 -4 seconds)
rub... rub some more...
stroke...
Repeat, getting more intense over time.
Then maybe I'll switch to a light, stingy cane and do maybe 20 rapid fire strokes to finish the scene.
It all depends on what effect you are wanting to achieve.
So far, I haven't gotten any complaints about the dowel rods, and I have turned several submissives who were afraid of canes into raving fans. So you will pardon me if I don't go and throw my 5 - 6 various size dowel rods out of the toy bag. And if you and I ever have the chance to play, I would like the opportunity to let you sample the rods in the hands of someone competent in using them.
Never happen, heh. For one, I am a huge fan of the cane and have a competent partner as well as some very skilled partners in the past. I have no interest in feeling a dowel rod, nor would anyone in my circle ever allow it. I've made mistakes in what I allowed in the past to happen with me and a cane, it won't happen again.
I have dowel rods right here next to me, I use them for a craft I make...if I bend it, it snaps in half and leaves splinters flying.
Birching isn't caning. I'm talking about a proper caning, where a rod is used on usually bare skin with some amount of force. So your experience of using dowels as birching or anything else isn't relevant to what I'm talking about.
For what it's worth, you are the only person with experience I've met that considers a dowel rod usable as a cane.
Of course bamboo splinters, thus why only experienced caners usually use them. Rattan can break, no one is arguing that, but it won't happen nearly as easily or as dangerously as dowel rods if taken proper care of.
If I sound upset, it is because I am. I don't understand the logic of using a lesser quality and dangerous implement in place of something that is safer and wiser to use. Because it's cheap? Rattan canes give the same effect, safely.
I'm done with this thread. I don't usually get easily upset, but this upsets me. Sorry to drag the rest of the thread into it.
