Caning Question

[Lamont Cranston]

So I've been through all the threads here and other places but I'm still a bit concerned about caning. I'm fine with hands, floggers and belts -- I've used them and felt them. But now I'm 'talking' with a pyl who says she really wants stripes like Sir Winston's Avatar and Chicklet's lovely pix -- well, probably more like Chicklet's than Sir Winston in the beginning. I'm fine with that and in getting to 'know' her would like to, ah, accomodate her and hope she enjoys it as much as I've read others do.
Here's my problem... It doesn't seem like you can really self-experience a cane like you can most other impact toys and I figure the fabric on my favorite test surfaces are probably a bit tougher than skin. So, E_G, Sir Winston, Catalina and everyone else, how do I learn how to do this right.
I don't have time or patience to make a cane -- and I recall a thread by Catalina about doing that -- but hey, I do live in the San Francisco Bay Area so I'm pretty sure that I can find a great place to acquire a good one. Any recommendations on what to acquire would also be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[graceanne]

I've never been caned or caned anyone. But, I do remember reading somewhere that you want to practice swinging it sometime. I read that it's hard to control a cane, and you don't want to accidently hit her spine, or other 'no no' spots.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

Yeah, I gather there are plenty of places the cane should not go and, while I have the diagram I'm hoping those with experience here will help me figure it out because while she wants and I think I would enjoy it ain't going to happen until I'm pretty sure I know what the heck I'm doing.
Sorry about the hijack last night.

 

[graceanne]

Yeah, I gather there are plenty of places the cane should not go and, while I have the diagram I'm hoping those with experience here will help me figure it out because while she wants and I think I would enjoy it ain't going to happen until I'm pretty sure I know what the heck I'm doing.
Sorry about the hijack last night.

Like I said - I don't care. I'm a major hijacker, hijacks don't bother me.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

And I did offer cookies...
Thanks for responding.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Start with slow, light swings, working up in intensity as you get a feel for your partner's reaction.

Yes, you most certainly can cane yourself. Thighs are perfectly legitimate targets for canes. You can wail the bejeebers outta your own thighs to get an idea of what a particular can feels like. You can do it sitting down striking across the front of your thighs, or standing on the sides or to the rear a bit..

The thinner the cane, the more "sting" it has, the thicker it is, the more "thud". The heavier the cane is the more impact it transmits to deep tissue ("hydrostatic shock" is the term for impacts in traffic accidents and boxing...).

Avoid using heavy canes striking vertically along the spine, avoid strikes over the kidney area. Breasts and nipples can be caned, I prefer using light, thin canes for those. The shoulder blade area is fine for canes, avoid the neck. Avoid joints.

18" - 24" canes are easily controlled unless you're trying to hit as hard and as fast as you possibly can. If someone doesn't have the eye-hand coordination to place a controlled, single, cane stroke exactly where they want it, don't trust them with a knife cutting their own food either...

Hope that helps!

 

[Netzach]

Probably key in this is being caned by someone who knows how. I know a lot of people don't relish that but all the people I know who are really artistes with it have sacrificed their hiney for a short while.

It's just because the sensation is remarkably unique - it's not obvious at all how it plays out and experiencing it does help. I don't think I'd have the range and the psychological adeptness I do on the top with a cane had I not bottomed to it.

What Geoff said is true also, you can cane your own thighs, though I find it far more unpleasant than the asscheeks. I find it's also really hard to bring myself to hit myself hard enough to get that burn, pause, burn effect that a solid swat brings. Which is the intrigue, I think.

The large bruising stripes in SW's av were *probably* created with a heavy cane. Remember these are contusions, you don't want to keep hitting someone over them once they're there. I've only left marks like that with two toys - one a heavy delrin cane, and one a thin paintstick shaped paddle made of rosewood. The paintstick was probably the more effective of the two for "souvenirs."

I definitely recommend using a pillow to see where you're hitting and sucking up ALL the advice in the slim little "Canes and Caning" dungeon guide published by Greenery press - probably the best little discourse on this I've ever read.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

I'm not sure how to do that snip thing so... E_G, yes, that helps. Netzach, finding someone to show me what it feels like was a real part of my learning early learning experience. I don't think I have submissive or masochistic bone in my body but that was how we learned way back when.
E_G when you're talking thin / thick I get the hydrostatic thing -- where to beginners start? Thick I would imagine. When I go looking for one, how do I define thick?
Thanks to both of you.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

Probably key in this is being caned by someone who knows how. I know a lot of people don't relish that but all the people I know who are really artistes with it have sacrificed their hiney for a short while.

It's just because the sensation is remarkably unique - it's not obvious at all how it plays out and experiencing it does help. I don't think I'd have the range and the psychological adeptness I do on the top with a cane had I not bottomed to it.

What Geoff said is true also, you can cane your own thighs, though I find it far more unpleasant than the asscheeks. I find it's also really hard to bring myself to hit myself hard enough to get that burn, pause, burn effect that a solid swat brings. Which is the intrigue, I think.

The large bruising stripes in SW's av were *probably* created with a heavy cane. Remember these are contusions, you don't want to keep hitting someone over them once they're there. I've only left marks like that with two toys - one a heavy delrin cane, and one a thin paintstick shaped paddle made of rosewood. The paintstick was probably the more effective of the two for "souvenirs."

I definitely recommend using a pillow to see where you're hitting and sucking up ALL the advice in the slim little "Canes and Caning" dungeon guide published by Greenery press - probably the best little discourse on this I've ever read.

Thank you. I don't think I've seen that one so I'll go find it. Shouldn't be hard in this neck of the woods.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

The really good news about this woman is that, unlike the last woman who asked me for this, her favorite book is NOT the the Q Letters by Sir John. Have you read that one?

 

[nh23]

Start with slow, light swings, working up in intensity as you get a feel for your partner's reaction.

Yes, you most certainly can cane yourself. Thighs are perfectly legitimate targets for canes. You can wail the bejeebers outta your own thighs to get an idea of what a particular can feels like. You can do it sitting down striking across the front of your thighs, or standing on the sides or to the rear a bit..

The thinner the cane, the more "sting" it has, the thicker it is, the more "thud". The heavier the cane is the more impact it transmits to deep tissue ("hydrostatic shock" is the term for impacts in traffic accidents and boxing...).

Avoid using heavy canes striking vertically along the spine, avoid strikes over the kidney area. Breasts and nipples can be caned, I prefer using light, thin canes for those. The shoulder blade area is fine for canes, avoid the neck. Avoid joints.

18" - 24" canes are easily controlled unless you're trying to hit as hard and as fast as you possibly can. If someone doesn't have the eye-hand coordination to place a controlled, single, cane stroke exactly where they want it, don't trust them with a knife cutting their own food either...

Hope that helps!

EG i was wondering what diameter of cane you would recommend for someone just beginning with a cane. I prefer the thud type of pain over a stinging pain..but some of those really thick canes scare me

 

[Lamont Cranston]

EG i was wondering what diameter of cane you would recommend for someone just beginning with a cane. I prefer the thud type of pain over a stinging pain..but some of those really thick canes scare me

Great question, thank you.

 

[Netzach]

Thank you. I don't think I've seen that one so I'll go find it. Shouldn't be hard in this neck of the woods.

little hunter green book by Janet Hardy (aka Dossie Easton co-author of "the topping/bottoming books)

The Q letters it ain't, haha!

 

[graceanne]

I have to say when I see pics like those in SW's av, I think NO FUCKING WAY. But the ones in chicklets thread, then I think . . . well maybe.

 

[Netzach]

I am weird, but the first cane I was introduced to was 1/4 inches of black delrin. You will get thud AND sting, you will want to start off light light light.

Advantages: there's some thud there too. And it cleans up with all the anti-microbial goo you could want for multiparty use.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

little hunter green book by Janet Hardy (aka Dossie Easton co-author of "the topping/bottoming books)

The Q letters it ain't, haha!

That's good, because I read that book just for the young lady who was so turned on by it and can't say that it is one that is good for the cause. I'll get this one too. Thanks.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I'm not sure how to do that snip thing so... E_G, yes, that helps. Netzach, finding someone to show me what it feels like was a real part of my learning early learning experience. I don't think I have submissive or masochistic bone in my body but that was who we learned way back when.
E_G when you're talking thin / thick I get the hydrostatic thing -- where to beginners start? Thick I would imagine. When I go looking for one, how do I define thick?
Thanks to both of you.

Actually starting thin is better. You are less likely to cause deep tissue damage and serious injuries with the thinner canes... Rattan is a good choice of material. The ones I use most frequently though are nothing more than 5/8" dowel rods you can buy in any hardware store, cut to a length I find comfortable to work with (my pair are 27-3/4" long). My arsenal includes 1-3/16" dowel rod, a 7/8" rattan cane, down to 1/16" (and thinner towards the tip) bamboo. I have canes in Lexan and delrin, acrylic, oak,... all kinds of material.

Different materials have different feels, flexibility, etc, lets see if I have a pic of the cane collection handy... Ah yes!

https://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=740905

This is not the complete collection, there are some missing, but that'll give you an idea...

 

[Sir_Winston54]

So I've been through all the threads here and other places but I'm still a bit concerned about caning. I'm fine with hands, floggers and belts -- I've used them and felt them. But now I'm 'talking' with a pyl who says she really wants stripes like Sir Winston's Avatar and Chicklet's lovely pix -- well, probably more like Chicklet's than Sir Winston in the beginning. I'm fine with that and in getting to 'know' her would like to, ah, accomodate her and hope she enjoys it as much as I've read others do.
Here's my problem... It doesn't seem like you can really self-experience a cane like you can most other impact toys and I figure the fabric on my favorite test surfaces are probably a bit tougher than skin. So, E_G, Sir Winston, Catalina and everyone else, how do I learn how to do this right.
I don't have time or patience to make a cane -- and I recall a thread by Catalina about doing that -- but hey, I do live in the San Francisco Bay Area so I'm pretty sure that I can find a great place to acquire a good one. Any recommendations on what to acquire would also be appreciated.
Thanks

If you know that she has a preference for sting over thud, or vice versa, that will make a great deal of difference in the type of cane you purchase. Discuss that with her beforehand, and if possible, invite her to accompany you on the shopping trip. Most stores (I would think especially in the Bay area) will kind of "look the other way" if you want to try a light swing or two for her to "try it out." The thinner the cane, the stingy-er it is... and the more likely to break skin, up to a certain degree of impact. One very nice thing (IMNSHO) about the thinner canes is the welts they raise at a relatively low level of impact force. But then, I like welts. Thuddy (thicker) canes will not create the almost-instant welts, but they are likely to cause slow-appearing bruises, and bruises that are deeper in the glutei than the thinner cane will if it's used with sufficient force to cause bruising. A thinner cane's bruises will also disappear more quickly than those from a thicker cane. All of these factors should be discussed with her prior to your purchase - and it's why my "arsenal" of canes ranges from "rather thin" to "THICK."

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x95/Sir_Winston54/HPIM0100.jpg​

You can, however, self-experience a cane to a certain point, as long as you have reasonable flexibility in your lower back and "operating" shoulder. Simply hold the cane in your dominant hand with most of the grip centered in your thumb and forefinger, the "action" end of the cane pointing downward. Now, raise it to a horizontal position, action end pointing behind you. Snap your wrist in (seen from the top) a clockwise motion (right-handed - counter-clockwise for left). It's not hard to raise at least some degree of welt on your own hiney that way, unless you're a leather-ass. The harder/est strokes, however, would be difficult to duplicate; however, since you specify that she would likely be more interested in markings like Chicklet's than those in my avatar, strokes of that degree of impact are certainly achievable.

Regarding use specifically on her backside, however, there's nothing wrong with starting out with light strokes, assessing her physical reaction to them by eye, increasing the force of impact slightly, re-assessing her reaction - and even *asking* her how she's doing - until you reach a point that is satisfactory to each of you. In other threads, both EG and I have stressed that one of the (if not the) most important facets of creating a good experience - for both of you - in this culture is communication, Communication, COMMUNICATION... and communicating during a scene, especially if you're not really, really comfortable that you know just where her head is at all times, is just as important as communication beforehand and afterwards. Do use caution to ensure that the tip end of the cane will fall no more than 2-3 inches (5-8 cm.) from the "highest" point of the far cheek from you, or she'll suffer the dreaded "wrap" - when the tip of the cane bends and strikes an area not desired. For some reason - something to do with physics, which I don't really understand and therefore can't explain - those "wrap" strikes hurt more than the rest of the stroke.

Speaking of communication afterwards, I don't remember what the thread was - it was a *long* time ago - but I believe someone objected at some point to my mentioning discussing a scene after it was completed, saying that the bottom involved (I don't recall whether it was a Top or bottom who wrote, and it may have been via PM rather than in the thread) in *their* scenes was almost never in a mental space that would allow her to discuss the experience during aftercare. I remember shaking my head as I read that and thinking, "Is the only communication they have after a scene *immediately* afterward, during aftercare?" Those discussions can take place during aftercare, if the bottom's emotional/psychological makeup is of the type that would allow it, but it can also be an hour later, a day, even a week - but sometime before the next activity.

I'm not exactly sure why this came to mind just now, but it's something I've always done, and tried to encourage others to implement whenever they had the opportunity. Even when scening with "play partners" I didn't really know, I asked them before we scened for an e-mail, IM, or phone number, and specified that it was for the purpose of discussing the scene afterward, when they'd had time to absorb it, think about it, and decide how they felt, because I wanted to improve my skills in reading different people's reactions and giving them the best possible experience that I could. I *never* had one refuse to do so, and have probably learned more about providing a quality experience for a bottom from those after-scene discussions than during all the rest of my experiences.

ETA: All the advice that EG, Netz and the others got in there while I was writing this book is good, too.

And EG, if your house gets broken into and the only thing missing is your canes, don't come lookin' for me.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

Actually starting thin is better. You are less likely to cause deep tissue damage and serious injuries with the thinner canes... Rattan is a good choice of material. The ones I use most frequently though are nothing more than 5/8" dowel rods you can buy in any hardware store, cut to a length I find comfortable to work with (my pair are 27-3/4" long). My arsenal includes 1-3/16" dowel rod, a 7/8" rattan cane, down to 1/16" (and thinner towards the tip) bamboo. I have canes in Lexan and delrin, acrylic, oak,... all kinds of material.

Different materials have different feels, flexibility, etc, lets see if I have a pic of the cane collection handy... Ah yes!

https://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=740905

This is not the complete collection, there are some missing, but that'll give you an idea...

Okay, that gets the brain working... I thought the wood dowel rod was too brittle -- I know it would need to be sanded and varnished. Lexan would seem to be really interesting.
I get the learning to place them correctly on a practice surface -- oh and enjoyed your up close thoughts on those lovely pix that Chicklet shared -- but I'm guessing that either self or trusted other application is a necessary first step here.

 

[Netzach]

One of the things that really rocks about that book, I forgot to mention, and no I don't get percentages, it's just THAT good

is that half of it is dedicated to bottoms and explains a million things you can do to TAKE a caning in a more enjoyable fashion. There are skills in bottoming that are way overlooked. This talks about positioning, the flow of energy (um, hit the backside and you bet the genitals get some energy delivered to 'em) it covers different things to communicate about your Top with. I made my frequent cane bottoms read it too.

I've found my best strategy for avoiding "wrap" (I think it has to do with the tip being propelled at a faster rate than the handle end?) is basically to always strike short of the area I *think* is correct. Whatever visually looks like you're shy of the far cheek, pull back towards you just a little from that. It's never lost that feeling of being a little counterintuitive.

For maximum pleasure for most but not all humans, tap tap tapping with increasing force in a regular and plodding rhythm is lovely. Some people of course will be an exception and hate this - ergo communicate - but some people will fall asleep with a little smile and grinding themselves against whatever they're lying on.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... I thought the wood dowel rod was too brittle -- I know it would need to be sanded and varnished. Lexan would seem to be really interesting.

Lexan is easy to clean, multi-partner friendly. 1/4" dowel rods, yeah, probably too brittle. 3/8" on up, not unless you're going ape-shit with 'em.

Sanded and varnished? If you want to. I just did enough sanding to take the rough edges off the ends, the wood is natural, no finish at all. If I was going to finish I'd probably use a urethane or maybe an oil stain then a clear urethane top coat.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

If you know that she has a preference for sting over thud, or vice versa, that will make a great deal of difference in the type of cane you purchase. Discuss that with her beforehand, and if possible, invite her to accompany you on the shopping trip. Most stores (I would think especially in the Bay area) will kind of "look the other way" if you want to try a light swing or two for her to "try it out." The thinner the cane, the stingy-er it is... and the more likely to break skin, up to a certain degree of impact. One very nice thing (IMNSHO) about the thinner canes is the welts they raise at a relatively low level of impact force. But then, I like welts. Thuddy (thicker) canes will not create the almost-instant welts, but they are likely to cause slow-appearing bruises, and bruises that are deeper in the glutei than the thinner cane will if it's used with sufficient force to cause bruising. A thinner cane's bruises will also disappear more quickly than those from a thicker cane. All of these factors should be discussed with her prior to your purchase - and it's why my "arsenal" of canes ranges from "rather thin" to "THICK."

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x95/Sir_Winston54/HPIM0100.jpg​

You can, however, self-experience a cane to a certain point, as long as you have reasonable flexibility in your lower back and "operating" shoulder. Simply hold the cane in your dominant hand with most of the grip centered in your thumb and forefinger, the "action" end of the cane pointing downward. Now, raise it to a horizontal position, action end pointing behind you. Snap your wrist in (seen from the top) a clockwise motion (right-handed - counter-clockwise for left). It's not hard to raise at least some degree of welt on your own hiney that way, unless you're a leather-ass. The harder/est strokes, however, would be difficult to duplicate; however, since you specify that she would likely be more interested in markings like Chicklet's than those in my avatar, strokes of that degree of impact are certainly achievable.

Regarding use specifically on her backside, however, there's nothing wrong with starting out with light strokes, assessing her physical reaction to them by eye, increasing the force of impact slightly, re-assessing her reaction - and even *asking* her how she's doing - until you reach a point that is satisfactory to each of you. In other threads, both EG and I have stressed that one of the (if not the) most important facets of creating a good experience - for both of you - in this culture is communication, Communication, COMMUNICATION... and communicating during a scene, especially if you're not really, really comfortable that you know just where her head is at all times, is just as important as communication beforehand and afterwards. Do use caution to ensure that the tip end of the cane will fall no more than 2-3 inches (5-8 cm.) from the "highest" point of the far cheek from you, or she'll suffer the dreaded "wrap" - when the tip of the cane bends and strikes an area not desired. For some reason - something to do with physics, which I don't really understand and therefore can't explain - those "wrap" strikes hurt more than the rest of the stroke.

Speaking of communication afterwards, I don't remember what the thread was - it was a *long* time ago - but I believe someone objected at some point to my mentioning discussing a scene after it was completed, saying that the bottom involved (I don't recall whether it was a Top or bottom who wrote, and it may have been via PM rather than in the thread) in *their* scenes was almost never in a mental space that would allow her to discuss the experience during aftercare. I remember shaking my head as I read that and thinking, "Is the only communication they have after a scene *immediately* afterward, during aftercare?" Those discussions can take place during aftercare, if the bottom's emotional/psychological makeup is of the type that would allow it, but it can also be an hour later, a day, even a week - but sometime before the next activity.

I'm not exactly sure why this came to mind just now, but it's something I've always done, and tried to encourage others to implement whenever they had the opportunity. Even when scening with "play partners" I didn't really know, I asked them before we scened for an e-mail, IM, or phone number, and specified that it was for the purpose of discussing the scene afterward, when they'd had time to absorb it, think about it, and decide how they felt, because I wanted to improve my skills in reading different people's reactions and giving them the best possible experience that I could. I *never* had one refuse to do so, and have probably learned more about providing a quality experience for a bottom from those after-scene discussions than during all the rest of my experiences.

ETA: All the advice that EG, Netz and the others got in there while I was writing this book is good, too.

And EG, if your house gets broken into and the only thing missing is your canes, don't come lookin' for me.

Thank you. Again, I'm sorry to quote the entire note rather than snip, but I'll figure that out.
I like the idea of shopping together. It is about both of us and I'll either do that or buy a wide variety to discuss / share before the actual application.
What I particularly appreciate are the thoughts about sharing the expectation before and experience after between the two people. When I visit other sites / chats there just doesn't seem to be an appreciation for how important that is. If the sub and I can't really discuss and explore what the 'moments' were like then I feel it probably didn't work and we probably shouldn't do it again.
Yes, I enjoy 'sharing' pain, but I enjoy it more from psychological (and where the hell is spell check when I want it?) point of view than I do from the physical point of view. Does that make sense?

 

[nh23]

Actually starting thin is better. You are less likely to cause deep tissue damage and serious injuries with the thinner canes... Rattan is a good choice of material. The ones I use most frequently though are nothing more than 5/8" dowel rods you can buy in any hardware store, cut to a length I find comfortable to work with (my pair are 27-3/4" long). My arsenal includes 1-3/16" dowel rod, a 7/8" rattan cane, down to 1/16" (and thinner towards the tip) bamboo. I have canes in Lexan and delrin, acrylic, oak,... all kinds of material.

Different materials have different feels, flexibility, etc, lets see if I have a pic of the cane collection handy... Ah yes!

https://forum.literotica.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=740905

This is not the complete collection, there are some missing, but that'll give you an idea...

Thank You! That answered my question perfectly. And answered my next one..lol. As we were considering just making one from a dowel rod.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

Thank you to everyone

I can't wait for this damned 'virgin' thingie to go away but hey we all need to pay the price.
The young lady wants stripes and thinner would seem to be best. Now, how long do they last? She has limits I need to work with and/or help her define.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

Not like a virgin... Thank You!

I can't wait for this damned 'virgin' thingie to go away but hey we all need to pay the price.
The young lady wants stripes and thinner would seem to be best. Now, how long do they last? She has limits I need to work with and/or help her define.

Damn, the virgin thing went away -- I feel better now. Thanks for helping.