BDSM: Questions and Answers

[JazzManJim]

Subs here are very vocal and they outnumber the Doms. I don't know much about Doms and I can't write about them effectively or like the deserve to be written about. That's what I want to know, I want to know them as human beings as well as Doms. Even in this thread the subs are immediate and touchable and the Doms have been friendly yet distant. They share their knowledge, but they don't share themselves like the subs have.

Frustrating for us writer types who find you and your lives incredibly fascinating.

KM, I'm more than willing to share with you anything you might want to know. I've posted here a couple times on this thread, but in a rather general way, as opposed to something more personal. I'm not averse to getting morepersonal about what being a Dom is like for me, and how I deal with insecurities and vulnerabilities.

Let me know what you want to know, and I'll answer, as best I can.

 

[JazzManJim]

What do Dominants get out it?

I get a few things out of being a Dominant.

There is a very emboldening effect that happens when a sub puts herself in my hands. To have a woman put herself in front of me and tell me, essentially, "I am yours. Do what you will", that makes me feel incredibly emboldened and manly. But more than that, it's saying that she's placing herself there because she recognizes that I'm an Alpha Wolf and she wants me, in part, because of that. That's a very validating thing..it increases what I feel about myself.

Beyond that, knowing that she trust me to care for her speaks to the caretaker in me. It makes me feel like a capable and competent guardian, which is an important thing for me.

There's such a rush in being in that position that happens that's very hard to describe. It makes me feel proud and tall and that much more confident in myself.

See, the problem some Doms have is, though we'll rarely come out and say it, we are prone to being more vulnerable than most would think. A dom puts his whole self out there for a submissive, and even for the world, and it's his very raw self that he's showing. In a true Dom, there's no artifice and no facade. That makes him vulnerable to the hurts of rejection, which happens all too often. When a Dom is rejected, it's not just his sexuality or his attractiveness that's being rejected, it's his masculinity and Alpha Male nature that's being rejected. That's a hard thing to take. Having that happens a few times can cause us to doubt whether we're truly Alpha at all. After all, what use is a leader if no one follows?

More than that, there's great pressure on Doms to be good in bed, without a lot of the things "vanilla" man get. Subumissives aren't always very forthcoming about what pleases them, assuming that a Dom will just know what that is. The mantra of communication that has been given to women "If you want your man to know what you like, you have to say so" hasn't entirely filtered down to the submissives. That means that there's a real chance that a Dom could do a lot wrong in bed. Again, it's a blow to the Alpha nature he has. Of course, that also means that a Dom has to be willing to make himself tender and open, so that he can work with his submissive, to make her feel comfortable enough to tell him what pleases her. The dual roles of sensitive listener and Mandingo He-Man in bed isn't always an easy transition. When he does it wrong, the implication can be made that he doesn't know what he's doing as a Dom. Again, a blow to the Alpha nature. After all, wasn't he just born a Dom? Of course, that's not true - being a Dom is a constant learning process, whether you're in a relationship or not.

But that's about all I think y'all can stand of this train of thought for now. I hope it's helped some.

 

[P. B. Walker]

It would be interesting to hear from a female dominate (Domme) on KM's questions about what makes dominates tick.

- PBW

 

[chatbug]

Domination

And yes, I want to know what makes you tick. I merely took the concept of trust and combined it with a BDSM situation. I have three stories right now where trust is the theme. The thing that didn't satisfy me in any of them is that it's the sub learning the trust. The Dom is just there, like a fixture, teaching the sub something. This had been done to death. The one thing I've noticed in all the BDSM stories I've read is that the sub learns and the Dom teaches. The Dom rarely, if ever, has any difficulties to get past beyond how to teach a sub.

...

Dominants are vulnerable too, they're people too. They feel, they hurt, they desire, they want, they need, they love, they trust, they guilt, they anger, they everything just like everyone else. The thing about BDSM in fiction is that the Dom has to be in control, confident, strong. The vulnerabilities of the human hide behind the role of the Dom.

The dom also learns while the sub is learning. Not so much in stories, as you've noted, but during sexual play the dom is getting feedback from the sub, and should adjust his control in the future to take this feedback into account. In a longer story with multiple sexual scenes, you could show this feedback process.

Also, and it's not very sexy, a dom has to practice some of these skills when the sub's not around. I had to learn how to handle a belt and a whip, how to tie and untie knots, and so on.

As Cym noted, sometimes masters also want to say "Fuck it. I don't feel like doing that." But we know the pleasure we provide. Even though I enjoy my dominant nature, sometimes I feel like I'm just going through the motions.

Long term, a master has to watch out that he doesn't become, as SpectreT said, "an arrogant, conceited, self-satisfied prick". Being a master doesn't just mean you get to dominate someone else. Being a master means you've accepted the responsibility and are really working to dominate and control your own selfish desires.

 

[Guest]

 

[cymbidia]

Last spring sometime, i read an essay entitled Dominant Space. It was a well written piece exploring the idea that Dom/mes have a headspace they go to that’s analogous to subspace, a concept that’s often discussed in the literature and widely understood by most of us who do this kind of thing. Dom/me Space, however, was a new idea to me, though it made immediate sense. I thought it over for awhile and realized that i’d never seen a story from this perspective. Most BDSM stories, as Muff has pointed out, are entirely from the sub’s perspective.

I posted an enquiry on the Story Ideas board regarding someone willing to write a “Dom Space” story. (I’d call up the thread if i could but SEARCH won’t let me.) Discussion. Discussion. Discussion. Then two people took on the challenge. One of them was our own Hecate, from the Dommes perspective, and the other was a nilla, a fine writer, and my friend – and someone who has mysteriously vanished, as slipstream people are so often wont to do, Ray Dario. Both did a fine job. Though the stories aren’t precisely what i was wanting (i wanted the Dom/me to remain in control, to not quite lose it, to walk the edge of the madness within the rip current of the powerful needs and emotions and intensities that must lash at them during extremely focused play), these stories are very good, nonetheless.

They, and the essay prompting them, are an indication, perhaps, of the madness that must occasionally overtake Dom/ms – just as subs succumb to the madness of pain or loss of control or plain ordinary fright.

In any case, and especially for you Muff, here they are.

Dominant Space
http://members.aol.com/MasterNik/DomSpace.html

Ray Dario
Primal Lust
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=13628

Hecate
Pushed Too Far
http://mistresshecate.tripod.com/indexa.htm


(edited to fix the addy on Hecate's story)

 

[P. B. Walker]

For me, the Domme-sub relationship is incredibly invasive. In any relationship, there are hours spent dwelling in each others thoughts. In BDSM, I feel like I delve deeper.

When I look into my pet's eyes, I want to probe into the minute details of each feeling he is experiencing. My nails pinch the tip of his glans... his lips part with pain, but his eyes are reflecting sparks. Why? What could prolong that feeling?

It is an honor to be trusted so implicitly. It also gives me a semblence of control that I had been lacking.

I also like to mark my men by cutting them. Through my own experience, I know that physical pain and physical scars directly correlate to inner growth.

Finally, because it is so difficult to find the right partner to express this sexual medium, it feels more intimate and special.

I found your thoughts very interesting MistressHoney, especially the cutting part. Kinda like tattooing your property. I see you have a story published here... I definitely plan to read it soon

Thanks for the response,

- PBW

 

[SpectreT]

Oh, look, the nipple shield is back.

And, once again, I'm in the position of grinning and nodding and saying, "Me, Too.". JazzManJim nailed it a little more thoroughly than I did when I described the rush, and the reasons for it, and the vulnerability, and the reasons for it.

Also, KM, That was another key point I wanted (but failed) to make. We're people, first and foremost, and your excellent understanding of people and their feelings are what make you such an excellent writer, even of things you claim you "don't get". A screenwriting professor whose name I can't recall said, "There are a million stories in the naked city. However, there are only seventeen basic plotlines." I never did find out what they were.

I can't speak for all switches, but the experience is kinda sub, kinda Dom, moving based on moods and needs. A feeling or a desire will manifest itself, and then I "know my role", as a popular entertainer is fond of saying. Makes it a little tougher finding a sympatico partner, since a lot of folks are one or the other, not both.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Thanks for the replies so far! I'm learning a lot and an open mind is the best thing for understanding other people.

'Nother question.

I've read stories where Dom/mes just "knew" that someone was a sub in a completely non-BDSM setting without being told. I doubted the veracity of this to some extent, but I'm also wondering about it.

How do you know when another person is a Dom/me or a sub?

 

[RisiaSkye]

Okay, so I said I wasn't going to answer these questions because you're kicking my sorry ass in the Survivor thing, and I didn't want to give you help kicking it more thoroughly. Turns out, even I'm not that petty.

Domme space:
For me, the ability to control the situation, to plan and enact what goes on in the bedroom, creates a comfort zone. After an incredibly violent and traumatic past, sex is (or has been) tinged with hideous unpleasantness. Control mediates that, gives me the chance to seek what I need sexually through trying to provide the exquisite edge of pleasure for another. But, that's only the sex bit.

That someone will allow me to push them to the very edge of their fantasies, and will let themselves *truly* experience it, trusting me to keep them safe and in control, is an awe-inspiring gift to receive. The trust that it requires to really submit (rather than just screw around--like the "whip me, beat me" stories) is enormous, and to have MasterMe (hubby) put that trust in me, against everything we're taught on every level, from gender stereotypes down to 'nilla expectations, is such a precious gift that it undoes my own fears of intimacy, and of judgement. To see someone look at you with a mixture of lust, nervous anticipation, and total trust is more than a power surge, it's a life-altering experience.

About the submission-detection:
I agree that many stories (including one of my own) oversimplify the process, but I do think that you can sense when someone is bent in similar kinks to your own. I don't know what it is...it's like what homosexual men call "Gaydar;" you can just *tell*. In some cases, there's physical evidence--people with brands, tattoos, and other permanent body transformations are likely suspects, for example. Sometimes it's how they automatically drop their heads a bit to listen, the way they *ask* to be heard, the care they take to acknowledge and show concern for all, or the way someone dresses to be attractive but not too showy, which might be seen as too willful, or prideful.
Somehow, I doubt that helps. *sigh* I tried. That counts, right?

RS

 

[KillerMuffin]

RisiaDarling...

I've already turned in my BDSM entry and a Fetish entry. There is no conceivable way you could be "consorting" with the enemy at this point. Besides, I'm prolificness in action. Pure output is about the only way I can win a contest in these parts.

What I'm trying to do here is understand you more fully. I think that not only are you guys off your rockers in some ways, but you're more in tune with yourselves and with human nature than any other "group" of people because what you do is very introspective and very giving.

It's fascinating to me in ways that I'm almost envious of.

 

[JazzManJim]

[BI've read stories where Dom/mes just "knew" that someone was a sub in a completely non-BDSM setting without being told. I doubted the veracity of this to some extent, but I'm also wondering about it.

How do you know when another person is a Dom/me or a sub? [/B]

I'm going to second RS's comment on this completely. YOU can see, in a person's mannerisms, whether they're a submissive or not. You can see it in the tilt of their head, in how and how often they talk, in their crowd interaction.

I suppose it could be like "gaydar", I"m not sure. I've never really had that one, but I tell you that I could pick just about every submissive ouf of a crowd, given some time to watch and talk to folks.

 

[cymbidia]

Muff, last month i was in a grocery store line in Spokane waiting my turn. The man ahead of me put his things on the motorized belt then scooted them over to make room for mine. He turned to talk to the checker while i watched and listened, idly. He had a tone in his voice, not an obvious thing at *all*, but a way of speaking, of phrasing his words, of knowing he was being carefully listen to that caused my whole self to straighten, to come to alert, to lean into him a bit, to pay closer attention. When he was done talking with the cashier, he turned to me and caught my eyes. Deliberately.

I the space of the ensuing two second eye-meeting, i *knew* he was Dom and he *knew* i was sub. He smiles easily and released my eyes, then used some kinda subtle hand signal that indicated i could move up in front of the cashier; he gave me his permission to move. Then he wished me a good day and wheeled his cart out of there.

How did i know?
How did he know?

He was Dom; i know it. And he knew i was sub, too. The signals were there, signals i almost cannot put into words they were so subtle.

It was in his voice, first and foremost. It was a voice of genuine and authentic authority, of a person used to having other people listen to his words - but not a drill sergent kind of voice at all - not that kind of gruff command voice. It was the voice of a man who knew his words wouldn't have to be repeated, that they would be understood and acted on as soon as they were uttered, no matter what words he said.

It was in his eyes, secondly. When our eyes met, i felt him assessing, measuring, taking stock of me not as a woman, exactly, but as a submissive, as one who listens and reacts and responds and does it as automatically as breathing. In the couple seconds that our eyes held, he took my measure in a way that only Dominants take the measure of a submissive - and i gave it. It's both an emotional and cerebral thing, that measurement, and entirely unlike the way nillas, any nillas, look at each other.

Finally, it was in the small, almost unnoticable hand gesture he made to indicate i should now step into his place. It was a command, an order, a small task. It was not some kind of courtesy, it was nothing of the nilla world. It was BDSM at it's purest when surrounded by all things nilla. It was a moment, a single pure BDSM moment between two lifestylers who would never know each other's stories and never meet again, but had had that small moment in common, a moment in which each was as true to themselves as they ever were.

It's hard to put into words, Muff, this almost psychic thing whereby one lifestyler senses another. But it's most definitely there.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Enlightened

RisiaSkye & cymbidia I found both of your replies very enlightening and interesting. I've always been interested in the BDSM world myself. I was wondering... is there such a thing as a "closet" subbie or dominate? If so, can you also "spot" them from just watching them or listening to them talk? Kinda like the "gaydar" for closet homosexuals.

- PBW

 

[Natalie Nessus]

Re: Enlightened

RisiaSkye & cymbidia I found both of your replies very enlightening and interesting. I've always been interested in the BDSM world myself. I was wondering... is there such a thing as a "closet" subbie or dominate? If so, can you also "spot" them from just watching them or listening to them talk? Kinda like the "gaydar" for closet homosexuals.

- PBW

Yes, it is of interest. I can select male subs by tests in conversations, body movement, it is clear to me Of course, i have to be looking,

 

[ChaoticLil]

i've heard the same thing

'Nother question.

I've read stories where Dom/mes just "knew" that someone was a sub in a completely non-BDSM setting without being told. I doubted the veracity of this to some extent, but I'm also wondering about it.

How do you know when another person is a Dom/me or a sub?

Unfortunantly, most people that don't know me believe me to be a Domme because of my height (5'7 though i don't see that as particuliary tall), boobage (46G), and strong personality (okay....so i know what i want out of life). my tattooist has even went so far as to say that i would make good money doing the Domme thing professionally. i truly hate the Domme role; can't do it and never had. i would much rather be the submissive and serve someone.

 

[cellis]

It's both an emotional and cerebral thing, that measurement, and entirely unlike the way nillas, any nillas, look at each other.

It's hard to put into words, Muff, this almost psychic thing whereby one lifestyler senses another. But it's most definitely there.

I have to agree cymbidia... it is not something that is easily explained... There is some kind of underlying energy between Dom/mes and subs... something so subtle that is only exists in our awareness of who we are...

I know in the approach of a Dom/me... how they speak to me, how they look at me. There is something that happens when I am approached... a catch in the breathe, a quickening of the pulse, a clinching in the stomach muscles... all this happens almost instanteously....

I thought about this last night, after I read the original postings, and for me I think is has more to do with my awareness of who I am... It has been like a light switch turn to the "on" position... once I really became aware of who I am, I can, in retrospect, look back and see situation after situation where those subtleties exsisted between myself and others....

I asked Himself once how he knew that others were submissives and he told me that he could just feel it... that he just knew... and that is the way it is for me.... I just know....

 

[RisiaSkye]

Side conversation: I'm less good at spotting Dom/mes, I've noticed; it certainly happens less often. This might be because I only have only subbed to males, and I'm not really *looking* at men anymore (and haven't in a long time). Maybe it's my weakness for submissive women. Or else there's just fewer Dom/mes than subs? I don't know. What do you all think?

P.B.W. Lifestylers are easier to spot; there's a reciprocal charge, as cym mentioned. I think, though, that "closet" BDSMers are fairly easy to spot, at least when they already know that they're looking for something. (Perhaps this is why I notice more subs...they're drawn to my dominant side, and expose their submissiveness more.)

 

[Merelan]

I admit it, I am a submissive. Okay? Just proved it when I was reading this thread. I was just told that when I read a post by Mistress, or another dominate I am attracted too, I lean in a bit, bow head and "listen" with whole body. I am blushing now. Never knew before how obvious it is when you are looking.
Now i am going to be more aware of my posture and such, even at work. Yikes. Another naughty thought to wander through my head during the day.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Thanks Nessus and RisiaSkye...

I think I'll do a little "people watching" while I'm on vacation for Christmas (at the mall or wherever) and see if I can noticed any of these particular actions on people.

Merry Christmas everyone...

- PBW

 

[SpectreT]

Well.

After reading this, I can look at quite a few interactions I've had with others, and I can see how I confuse the hell out of people who spend a lot of time near me. I've got two modes that I run at, and which one I'm in seems to depend entirely on who I'm interacting with. It seems that I'm reacting to signals I never knew I was recieving; either brief glances down, or averting my eyes from people whose mannerisms, tone of voice, etc. indicate a confidence and force of personality I don't posess, along with a sudden heightened focus on what they're saying to me, or when someone seems to be sending me similar signals, mannerisms which tell me that the other person might be submissive, I just kick into what I've always thought of as my "Warrior" mode; calm, confident. "In Command", for want of a better description.

I've had the eyes-locking thing happen to me a few times, too, and didn't immediately recognise which role I was in until the eye contact was broken, either by me blushing and looking away, or by a little smile and nod. Similar signals, in reverse.

I guess people react to everything about a person, even when they don't realize it.

 

[MysCynthia]

BDSM as a Main Forum?

First and foremost... THANK YOU CYM!!! The BDSM thread is absolutely the BEST and I thank you for starting it. I thank all others who post also!
I have a hard time expressing some thoughts and ideas and it seems I can just go to the thread and quote one of your posts.

Considering the volumn of posts in this thread:
I am suggesting that Laurel add a new Main Forum.
A BDSM Forum where posts can be devided down for
more managable reading.

I love the thread but I imagine it is overwhelming
to a newbie looking for information.
I've spent hours looking for a post I've read previously!

It would be wonderful to find threads specifically adressing:
1 Dommes
2 Doms
3 Male subs
4 Female subs
5 Bondage
6 Spanking
7 Toys
8 Pain vs Pleasure
etc........

Any chance ot that happening Laurel? {oops... THANK YOU for starting this site!!!!!!}

 

[P. B. Walker]

I second MysCynthia suggestion. I'm a newbie to this bulletin board and when I came across this thread I found it very interesting. I'd love to explore it... but there's no way I have the time to read the entire thing. I think KillerMuffin said she did and it took her over 4 hrs or something like that.

Out of that list that MysCynthia made there are only like 2 or 3 topics that interest me... which is another reason why I have not read the entire thread... don't want to waste time reading something that doesn't interest me...

- just a newbies opinion (prolly not worth the 2 cents

Great job on this thread cymbidia. Seeing shear number of posts I can't imagine how much time and effort you must have put into this.

- PBW

 

[girl]

I agree

girl

 

[Merelan]

No, Lit cannot be broken into any more segments then it is. If Laurel and Mau started a forum dedicated to BDSM then they would have to have one for incest, and anal and whatever else. It would become too big and too complicated.
You do not need to read the whole thread to find what you want. Just ask. If it was asked before, we are not offended.
Good heavens. How can we be? We have done the same. Killer read it all for information on the lifestyle as a whole.

Well come to Lit though..... holding out a hand. A glass of wine perhaps? A chilled fruit juice?