BDSM and religion

[Trinique_Fire]

I'm curious, and this has been floating around in my head for the past couple of days. Where does religion fit into your lifestyle, if at all? Were you religious at one point and just stopped attending services or gatherings? If so, why? Have you discovered a religion or faith that accepts you fully, as you are? Do you ever feel as if you're hiding part of yourself from people, especially when you attend services (if you do).

I've been thinking about this because in the past two years I've been jumping from religion to religion, trying to get a feel for what I was looking for. I went from (my mother's brand of) Catholocism, Presbetyrian (sp?), Buddhism, Ba'hai, Lutheran, Non-denominational, and now Uniterian Universalist.

Currently I attend a Lutheran church on a pretty much regular basis, but I don't by any means feel at home there. I went to a Unitarian church when I was very little, and I started going again until I moved.

How does religion affect your lifestyle, whether you're a Dominant, submissive, slave, bottom, etc. How do you deal? Where do you worship? Etc.

Thanks,

 

[jasonlf]

This is similar to a topic I posted before.

I think BDSM fits hand and hand in with my beliefs (fundamentalist protestant) when practiced in love and in a loving relationship.

(that's not meant to be judgemental, I just don't believe in casual sex)

 

[sphynx's dragon]

I gave up on religion years ago. For years it's been more of a hobby for me. I study the different religions but have yet to find a single one that is "right" fror me. <shrug> So I've come to the conclusion that the glass through whcich I view the Light that is God is a slightly different color than others.

 

[Bikewer]

Rationalist, skeptic, and atheist, I have no attachment to religion whatever.

 

[arctic-stranger]

My faith is one of the most important things in my life. And it always has been, as far back as i can remember. Not only do I worship, I LEAD worship every Sunday morning. Yes, i am a religous professional. I have studied religion and theology in America and Germany, and currently serve a protestant congregation.

I am, however, pretty human. Not a super spiritual person....maybe a c- Christian. Maybe. Not a bad pastor, but not the best Christian.

Any way, here is some of what i believe.

a) My faith does not make me any better than any other person. I don't have faith in my faith. I dont have much faith in my own goodness and there are those on this board who probably think i am something of hypocrite because my lifestyle does not match that of the "ordinary" man of the clothe. I dont have faith in the Christian Bible, although with Soren Kierkegaard I believe it is more than just a work of genius. I do believe it is inspired in a way that other books are not. But my faith is not in the words of the Christian Bible.

I do have faith in God. For me, that faith takes a specific form as Christian faith. Even more specifically i believe that Jesus came to bring us salvation, which in Greek literally means wholeness. I believe we are all fragmented people, but that Jesus came to pull those fragmented parts back together.

b) i am not sure how my faith relates to my BDSM side, because that is a relatively new side to me. i firmly believe that sexuality and spirituality are closely linked...(See Bernini's Teresa in Ecstacy, and tell me she isnt getting off on something!) There is a lot in Christianity that is subtly related to BDSM...did you see the Passion of the Christ? Suffering is pretty big in the Gospels. Much of religion has to do with obedience and turning yourself over to a "higher power" of some kind.

Worship is the ultimate in submission. As a Dom, i find myself leading others in it. and i find it very hard to do.

 

[babiesmiles]

.....See Bernini's Teresa in Ecstacy, and tell me she isnt getting off on something!...

Weird .. this morning I was just thinking to this sculpture which lately happened to me to see again under a new complete different point of view .... it must be the mystical flow which floats on here these days !

edit to add

http://www.thais.it/scultura/image/sch00349.jpg

 

[arctic-stranger]

Weird .. this morning I was just thinking to this sculpture which lately happened to me to see again under a new complete different point of view .... it must be the mystical flow which floats on here these days !

One of the reasons i am a spiritual person. or try to be.

 

[arctic-stranger]

Ok, in spite of the length of my previous answer, my Significant Other rightly told me that i did not answer the questions. So, if you dont mind, i will take another shot at it.

I'm curious, and this has been floating around in my head for the past couple of days. Where does religion fit into your lifestyle, if at all? Were you religious at one point and just stopped attending services or gatherings? If so, why? Have you discovered a religion or faith that accepts you fully, as you are? Do you ever feel as if you're hiding part of yourself from people, especially when you attend services (if you do).

I think i handled this one except for the last part. Have i discovered a religion that accepts me fully as i am. Yes and No. I have not found a church that will do that. Maybe i have. Part of that is me. Unfortunately when i started the Christian journey i thought i had to put on the front of being a perfect Christian. I did that for years...even in the ministry...especially in the ministry. I did not believe that God or others would accept me as i really was, so i did a lot of denying who i really was.

I will find out shortly how accepting my church is of me when they learn i am not quite the person they want me to be (an impending separation and divorce.)

But...i would hope that no one would have to hide anything if they attend our services... We have had a few assorted felons, schziphrenics, gays and lesbians, and probably some secret bondage folks. We even have a few Jews and Pagans who attend, although we are overtly Christian. But when you are the pastor...well you can that agenda, it just may not apply to you.

Cut....

How does religion affect your lifestyle, whether you're a Dominant, submissive, slave, bottom, etc. How do you deal? Where do you worship? Etc.

Thanks,

Let me work backwards here. I worship at a mainline protestant church, which is neither liberal nor fundamentalist. We are near a university, so half the congregation has a Ph.D. in astrophysics or marine biology or something like that. (I Never use scientific analogies in my sermons because half the congregation will be lining up to correct me.)

I actually dont know many of the answers to these questions. I do know that I as much as i like spiritual awakenings, i find worship pretty hard to do. I can lead others in it, but i have a hard time doing it. I worship best in Russian Orthodox churches, especially Russian speaking Orthodox churches. Dont ask me why, but some of the most intense spiritual experiences i ever had were in Orthodox churches in Russia. I guess because i had to let go in many ways, and just let it happen. I am not good at that. But i know it is good for me.


How does this affect my lifestyle? To be honest, i am working on that. On the one hand, i am pretty tired of denying who i am to others. Religion affects my lifestyle in that i am monogamous (with one major exception), and in the end i want a loving, caring, relationship, and not just a quick lay. In terms of my role as a dom, i am really new to that, and i am not sure where it fits right now. I know that when i lead worship, i am basically asking others to submit to my leadership, at least in part. (But only to a certain extent...in my church we dont tell others how or what to think.)


Right now i am trying to integrate my faith with my sexuality. I really dont know where this will lead, but i can guess that few if anyone in my church really wants to know what their pastor has under his robes....I want to find a way to integrate this into my faith. my guess is the answer has to do with love....

 

[laurel-marie]

My 'religion' and my lifestyle seem to go well together.


[Proverb 31 (Bible) broken down and studied gives me a cursory guide as a submissive wife.]

 

[Trinique_Fire]

Arctic, I must thank you immensely for your beautiful and detailed responses. I imagine it can become a struggle when you know that there is this part of your life that you either have to or feel you have to hide from others, especially as a pastor. I, personally, would love to hear more about your journey with the church and then discovering BDSM if you're willing.

Thanks,

 

[Trinique_Fire]

My 'religion' and my lifestyle seem to go well together.


[Proverb 31 (Bible) broken down and studied gives me a cursory guide as a submissive wife.]

Could you quote it or give the basic rundown of what Proverbs 31 says?

 

[Netzach]

I'm re-reading this little gem, guess that being sick makes us all as spiritual as we are going to get and this is as far as I go. There are some lovely little nuggets that put me back in touch with the D/s themes in my life, and even have me re-thinking a few things about what I do now versus what I may do in the future...


The Master does his job
and then stops.
He understands that the universe
is forever out of control
and that trying to dominate events
goes against the current of the Tao.
Because he believes in himself
he doesn't try to convince others.
Because he is content with himself
he doesn't need others approval.
Because he accepts himself
the whole world acepts him.

Tao Te Ching, trans. Stephen Mitchell

 

[arctic-stranger]

Could you quote it or give the basic rundown of what Proverbs 31 says?

Ode to a Capable Wife
10 A capable wife who can find?
She is far more precious than jewels.
11 The heart of her husband trusts in her,
and he will have no lack of gain.
12 She does him good, and not harm,
all the days of her life.
13 She seeks wool and flax,
and works with willing hands.
14 She is like the ships of the merchant,
she brings her food from far away.
15 She rises while it is still night
and provides food for her household
and tasks for her servant-girls.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
17 She girds herself with strength,
and makes her arms strong.
18 She perceives that her merchandise is profitable.
Her lamp does not go out at night.
19 She puts her hands to the distaff,
and her hands hold the spindle.
20 She opens her hand to the poor,
and reaches out her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid for her household when it snows,
for all her household are clothed in crimson.
22 She makes herself coverings;
her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the city gates,
taking his seat among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them;
she supplies the merchant with sashes.
25 Strength and dignity are her clothing,
and she laughs at the time to come.
26 She opens her mouth with wisdom,
and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
27 She looks well to the ways of her household,
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children rise up and call her happy;
her husband too, and he praises her:
29 “Many women have done excellently,
but you surpass them all.”
30 Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain,
but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
31 Give her a share in the fruit of her hands,
and let her works praise her in the city gates.

 

[laurel-marie]

Could you quote it or give the basic rundown of what Proverbs 31 says?

Sorry, I'm moving slow today.

Thank you Arctic-stranger for providing it.

 

[jasonlf]

Ode to a Capable Wife
10 A capable wife who can find?
She is far more precious than jewels.
11 The heart of her husband trusts in her,
and he will have no lack of gain.
12 She does him good, and not harm,
all the days of her life.
13 She seeks wool and flax,
and works with willing hands.
14 She is like the ships of the merchant,
she brings her food from far away.
15 She rises while it is still night
and provides food for her household
and tasks for her servant-girls.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
17 She girds herself with strength,
and makes her arms strong.
18 She perceives that her merchandise is profitable.
Her lamp does not go out at night.
19 She puts her hands to the distaff,
and her hands hold the spindle.
20 She opens her hand to the poor,
and reaches out her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid for her household when it snows,
for all her household are clothed in crimson.
22 She makes herself coverings;
her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the city gates,
taking his seat among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them;
she supplies the merchant with sashes.
25 Strength and dignity are her clothing,
and she laughs at the time to come.
26 She opens her mouth with wisdom,
and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
27 She looks well to the ways of her household,
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children rise up and call her happy;
her husband too, and he praises her:
29 “Many women have done excellently,
but you surpass them all.”
30 Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain,
but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
31 Give her a share in the fruit of her hands,
and let her works praise her in the city gates.

I *love* that part of the Bible.

 

[YinandYang]

This is an interesting thread, thanks for bringing it up. When I realised what my BDSM incantations were, I sought desperately to find how that links in with my beliefs.

I was brought up a Romany (English) and the views of Romany's are very similar to Pagan. I see the male/female aspect of all things, the positive the negative. From my simplistic pagan views, I worked my way through spiritualism, many of the basics for this I could connect with, but much of it I found to be 'old school' (IMO). I searched for freedom, a way to interact with people in life and not rely on their energies. I searched for reasonings behind things, the higher power at work if you like. The synchronicities that presented there self to me, and my part in this world. I read books, I travelled and I listened to people (the biggest source of knowledge I beleive), and I experienced. The conclusion I am at now, which is almost certainly likely to change as I grow is that I haven't found a particular named religon that fits solely into my beleifs (or vise versa). Its all about where it comes from, and at the moment its inside.

I beleive some of the lessons we are here to experience (earth) is to unite the postive/negative, male/female (I don't mean as in the sex's but as in the male/female within all of us), the light and the dark and the yin and the yang. So for me BDSM fulfils and explains a role within me. I am independant, stubborn, and very much a doer in normal life. I have always had my 'survival' head on. I tend to have the outlook that if life isnt working for you, change it. We are the ones solely responsible for our own lives and destiny's. In the bedroom, and at other scening times, I am submissive, event reliant on events and the person I am with, which is a huge contrast for me.

So, I guess spiritually for me, its about uniting those two aspects of myself and allowing them in harmony in my life. BDSM has allowed me to look deeper within, and that can't be a bad thing

 

[onceburned]

Where does religion fit into your lifestyle, if at all? Were you religious at one point and just stopped attending services or gatherings? If so, why? Have you discovered a religion or faith that accepts you fully, as you are? Do you ever feel as if you're hiding part of yourself from people, especially when you attend services (if you do).

I am Catholic by choice, having been raised without a religion. I am a very irregular attender of services which I guess makes me a bad Catholic. But I think many American Catholics also share this failing.

Although I disagree with many of the Church's teachings (again, I think most American Catholics fall into this camp) I find that the spiritual traditions of the Church speak deeply to me. And are relevant to D/s. Such things as contemplative prayer, surrendering to God's will, reverance for authority... these things have their echoes in D/, and they resonate for me.

I am a submissive if that makes a difference.

 

[Trinique_Fire]

onceburned, I understand exactly what you mean.

The reason I started this thread was because I had been thinking...and finding almost frightening similarities between BDSM and religion. I'll point out, for example, onceburned's post. Yes it does seem that there are strong similarities and representations between Catholocism and BDSM. It seems to work that way with other religions as well. I'd be interested to hear from people who have upbringings in various other religions (especially outside of Christianity) where the similarities and ties between religion and BDSM are strong.

So, adding a second question onto the first one: Do you see the similarities between religion and BDSM? What are the connections? Why so many links? I'd like to puzzle this out and here various people's thoughts.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I am Catholic by choice, having been raised without a religion. I am a very irregular attender of services which I guess makes me a bad Catholic. But I think many American Catholics also share this failing.

Although I disagree with many of the Church's teachings (again, I think most American Catholics fall into this camp) I find that the spiritual traditions of the Church speak deeply to me. And are relevant to D/s. Such things as contemplative prayer, surrendering to God's will, reverance for authority... these things have their echoes in D/, and they resonate for me.

I am a submissive if that makes a difference.

lol i have always said that being a good lil catholic girl has prepared me to be a good lil slave.