As North Korea have admitted to trying to build an atomic bomb...

[HeavyStick]

You see, we have the luxury of calling Bush an asshole here if we want. If we were in Vietnam or North Korea and we called their president an asshole we would be thrown into a gulag for “re-education” or even tortured and killed.

Former USSR/Soviet Union had gulags.

Ar-tard

 

[Dantetier]

"It's just like Islam. WRONG, communism and Islam are not the same. The fear/hate instilled by Islam is completely different. Communist were part of a very active cold war were the only victims were governments and ideology. The Jihad, is an active campaign against all infidels. The Communist wanted world domination. For now the fanatic Islamics want a cleansing of the Holy Land of all Westerners, this is being spearheaded by Al Qaeda"

Not all Muslims feel that way. a VERY few believe that all infidels must die. Not all muslims are involved in the jihad. If they were, the muslims in the US would be killing everyone else, but they aren't.
And if you think the cold war hurt no one except the governments and idealogies... lets ask the millions of people in russia who starved about that... how about everyone living in Russia today who's QoL is crap because their governemtn was bankrupted by trying to keep up with the West?

Frimost: I doubt communism is idea is like that, but in practice it probably is. I can't believe any country would willingly follow a regime who's very base is supression and murder. the idea is sound, the enacting is flawed.

 

[Frimost]

Communists come in two brands.
Young, naive, idealistic people who are too political for their own good and base their belief system on emotions rather than pragmatic reasoning and understanding of how humans really are and always will be (i.e. human nature).

and evil bastards that deserve to be shot.

Repression and communism go hand in hand.
Cuba, China, Vietnam, Laos, North Korea, and the quasi-communist states like Tajikistan, Cambodia, and others,,

Here is but one example of their standard bullshit randomly selected by me that shows you the day to day lack of respect and freedom afforded to people by the belligerent and suffocative one-party monopoly of communism.

Vietnam hill tribe men jailed

And what makes you a "terrorist" to a communist country, what do you have to do to be branded as a "hostile force?" In this case all you have to do is flee to the border to escape persecution of you and your family by government forces.

 

[Guest]

 

[Guest]

 

[TheEarl]

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=3590577#post3590577

Still waiting for a reply Hans.


Communism is sound in theory, but the theory itself is flawed as it ignores basic human nature. No-one is ever willing to accept that they are no better than the next man.

The Earl

 

[Dantetier]

Frimost: again... I point out that I meant idealogically, not the way it is practiced. I understand the the way communism is practiced in the world today is bad, but if communism were to be run EXACTLY the way communism was meant to be run, then I doubt we would be having this conversation at all...


On a side note.... how much of Hanns' rethoric do you think he actually believes himself? or does he do it SIMPLY and PURELY for shock value?

 

[Frimost]

Communist were part of a very active cold war were the only victims were governments and ideology

WRONG! Try MILLIONS of their OWN people BUTCHERED in concentration camps, prison islands, "re-education facilities", and torture chambers.

Radical Islam and Communism have one major thing in common, they seek the eradication of anyone who opposes their belief system, but one is a belief system based on religion and the other an atheistic political system.

I have had relative killed in Czechoslovakia simply because they did not believe in the communist system’s “ideals” and chose to speak their mind or o disagree with the party propaganda. So don’t tell me it didn’t harm anyone because that is a fucking lie!

 

[TheEarl]

There were Irish terrorists who lived in England. Does that make all Irishmen in England terrorists.

Your problem Hans is that you continue to think in generalisations. You see mentalists blowing themselves up and you see what faith they are. So does that mean that all the people of that faith will blow themselves up for a cause that they may not care about?

I'm Christian. Does that mean that I will go to Turkey and try and convert every Muslim by force? Some Christians have done that in the past.

Try and think outside of your own preconceptions. A closed mind is the easiest to hit. Open your mind and allow your beliefs to flow with the veidence, rather than twist the evidence to fit your beliefs.

The Earl

 

[Dantetier]

WRONG! Try MILLIONS of their OWN people BUTCHERED in concentration camps, prison islands, "re-education facilities", and torture chambers.

Radical Islam and Communism have one major thing in common, they seek the eradication of anyone who opposes their belief system, but one is a belief system based on religion and the other an atheistic political system.

I have had relative killed in Czechoslovakia simply because they did not believe in the communist system’s “ideals” and chose to speak their mind or o disagree with the party propaganda. So don’t tell me it didn’t harm anyone because that is a fucking lie!

Uhhh, you know that wasn't my post, right? *chuckles* don't want you to think that was me and forever think I'm the one who said that... so yeah... it was the other guy ^_^

 

[Frimost]

On a side note.... how much of Hanns' rethoric do you think he actually believes himself? or does he do it SIMPLY and PURELY for shock value?

Most of what he says I venture he believes but he purposely couches it in words meant to provoke a sharp reaction for effect and attention. I bet he could merely state his beliefs reasonably and rationally in a well-mannered way if he wanted to but he chooses not to many times in order to troll for responses and get into an argument.

Communism in theory is one based-on unanimous decisions like people are pack animals or ants with complete subservience and blind obedience to the authority of the state. But people, as a higher animal with reasoning power are bound to disagree with one another. Communism also dose not allow for the freedom to own land or the right to have possessions. Any belief system based on the suppression of speech, the stripping of one's land, and the forfeiture of one's possessions is a VERY crappy political system IMO. Since this is ALL against human nature the ONLY way TO implement these measure is through force and intimidation.

 

[Guest]

 

[Dantetier]

Isn't socialism a govenment system based on "the Good for All" theory? And isn't Communism a form of socialism?

 

[Dantetier]

*sits calmly and awaits my death at the hands of savages*

 

[Dantetier]

communism ko(hook).miuniz'm. f. L. commun-is or Fr. commun common + -ism. In mod.Fr. communisme.

1.

a. A theory which advocates a state of society in which there should be no private ownership, all property being vested in the community and labour organized for the common benefit of all members; the professed principle being that each should work according to his capacity, and receive according to his wants.

Where in that does it advocate repression of speech or whatnot?

 

[Frimost]

Dictionary definition??? lOL!

Read the works and writing of Mao Zedong, Lenin, Stalin, Marx, and read their official state policies that they enacted when in power for the "betterment" of their society and the communist party.

The grass is always greener on the other side. Our democracy is flawed and frustrating so it is human nature to always hope, to want there to be an easy quick solution to our problems, to think that there is something better out there that we haven’t seen yet, that hasn’t been thought of yet, that we can try and that will wrap all our problems up in a neat little bundle so we are all happy and content. There is Not…democracy is the best way and everything there is, that can be thought of has been tried by someone before at some time or another.

 

[Dantetier]

Bah... humanity on a whole has the collective IQ of mayonaise.. I can't accept that the ignorant masses all getting together is the best way EXPECIALLY with out current two party system. It's all money based, and it's pathetic, and it makes it impossible to accomplish ANYTHING>

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

As a small ignorant interjection into an otherwise urbane and civilized debate,

I always find it interesting that proponents of "communism" "socialism" "anarchism" etc. always cite that it would work wonderfully in theory if it was implimented correctly, etc etc etc.

This begs the question "Why has it not been implimented correctly?"

I suspect the answer to be "Because it is impossible"

I think the bottom line currently is that Adam Smith's theories, as modified by subsequent thinkers, and as applied to the representative democracy whose current nomenclature is "The United States of America" seem to be at the top of the heap. Nothing argues for the validity of a system as much as its own success.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

The above also begs the question "Why do I spell like shit?"

 

[Dantetier]

I never once said it was possible. I'll be the first one to agree that humans are pathetic wastes of space.

Communism and socialism AS DEFINED by the Oxford English Dictionary.. ARE great systems, but due to human stupidity and greed, they would be impossible to implement correctly

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

I never once said it was possible. I'll be the first one to agree that humans are pathetic wastes of space.

Communism and socialism AS DEFINED by the Oxford English Dictionary.. ARE great systems, but due to human stupidity and greed, they would be impossible to implement correctly

I would submit to you that it would be very possible to impliment "Rosevillecaguyism" correctly.

 

[TheEarl]

How many Muslims do you know Hanns? What is your proof that they're all out to destroy Western Civilisation as we know it? The Islamic religion preaches that death is bad and that there should be tolerance towards Jews and Christians as they are 'people of the book.' Do you even know that Mohammed preached that Christians and Jews will find a place in heaven, because they believe, even if they don't have the same beliefs as Islam.

You are judging an entire social group of the basis of a mentalist fringe. You are saying that every Muslim in the world supports terrorism. Apart from the fact that this is a gigantic categorization without much proof, I believe you are getting confused with motives. Many Muslims are for the basic ideals that the radicals are fighting for: NOT FOR THEIR METHODS. Those ideals are for the Islamic nations not to be bullied by superpowers and for freedom to live their lives as they please. Anything particularly wrong with that?

Have you ever read the Koran? Do you know any Islamic people? Are you in fact basing any of these opinions on anything, but second hand bullshit? If I know of one black person who's a bastard, it doesn't give me a right to assume that all black people are bastards. Try and allow for anomalous results.

Words of a true paranoiac: They're all out to get me.

The Earl

 

[manofsteel52]

I think the Patriot Act did go too far, however, I think it is a response to the type of terrorism that we are facing.

While our founding fathers had to face a number of different problems, a nuclear weapon that could kill millions and make an entire city uninhabitable wasn't one of them. That being the case, I find your position on "preventative war" to be naive. What good is going to war AFTER someone has used a nuclear bomb on one of your cities? Even a dirty nuke would make a city like NYC uninhabitable for years.

I have yet to hear the anti-war crowd give a single suggestion as to how our government should be handling this. It is far easier to criticize than it is to offer a solution.

To your points about medication and health care, well, of course they should be better. War or not, I haven't seen that happening. The truth is, the Clinton Administration severely underestimated the threat of world terrorism to this country. The Bush administration did the same thing when they took office.

At least now, we are doing something to fight against it. Preventing countries likely to provide terrorists with them is a good first step to me.

Sounds good, except for one or two tiny issues...
The good ol' USA developed the nuclear bomb.
The good ol' USA is the only nation to have actually used the nuclear bomb.

I'm not anti american or any other thing some of the weirdos posting on the boards like to call people. I served in the US military from 1970-74.
I remember Vietnam.
I remember plenty of the things our political leaders have done in the name of peace or patriotism. Bottom line is, everyone has their own agenda, especially politicians.
I believe in America and what I was raised to believe that America stood for, though as an adult I know that we were never told half the truth by our own government. I do, however, believe that it can work the way it's supposed to, if we, the people can rein in our politicians.

So now we, the developers and only users of the nuclear bomb, are so terrified of what may now happen because of that, are about to invade another country and kill God knows how many innocents there.
I have no love for Saddam Hussein, and I'm fairly certain he is an evil person. The bottom line is that the US government has shown no concrete evidence that he plans to attack us and use weapons of mass destruction.
If we can't follow our own rules we are no better than he is.

America is not the only country on earth, just one of many. They have not elected us as King.

 

[HeavyStick]

Sounds good, except for one or two tiny issues...
The good ol' USA developed the nuclear bomb.
The good ol' USA is the only nation to have actually used the nuclear bomb. What are you trying to say with this?

I'm not anti american or any other thing some of the weirdos posting on the boards like to call people. I served in the US military from 1970-74.
I remember Vietnam.
I remember plenty of the things our political leaders have done in the name of peace or patriotism. Bottom line is, everyone has their own agenda, especially politicians.
I believe in America and what I was raised to believe that America stood for, though as an adult I know that we were never told half the truth by our own government. I do, however, believe that it can work the way it's supposed to, if we, the people can rein in our politicians.

So now we, the developers and only users of the nuclear bomb, are so terrified of what may now happen because of that, are about to invade another country and kill God knows how many innocents there.
I have no love for Saddam Hussein, and I'm fairly certain he is an evil person. The bottom line is that the US government has shown no concrete evidence that he plans to attack us and use weapons of mass destruction.
If we can't follow our own rules we are no better than he is.

America is not the only country on earth, just one of many. They have not elected us as King.

The good ol' traitors gave US nuclear weapon secrets to the Russians, nearly bankrupting the Social Security Fund.

As far as developing and using the Bomb. what option would you suggest for dealing with Japan in WWII?

If we can't follow our own rules we are no better than he is.

We are enforcing UN sanctions he voluntarily agreed to, and voluntarily violated.

So now we, the developers and only users of the nuclear bomb, are so terrified of what may now happen because of that,

Nuclear weapons of today and yesterday vary greatly. A 1945 nuclear weapon delivered via a propeller airplane and a 1995 nuclear weapon with ICBM capabilitiesand multiple warheads is very different.

Your argument is flawed in every aspect.

 

[zipman]

Sounds good, except for one or two tiny issues...
The good ol' USA developed the nuclear bomb.
The good ol' USA is the only nation to have actually used the nuclear bomb.

I'm not anti american or any other thing some of the weirdos posting on the boards like to call people. I served in the US military from 1970-74.
I remember Vietnam.
I remember plenty of the things our political leaders have done in the name of peace or patriotism. Bottom line is, everyone has their own agenda, especially politicians.
I believe in America and what I was raised to believe that America stood for, though as an adult I know that we were never told half the truth by our own government. I do, however, believe that it can work the way it's supposed to, if we, the people can rein in our politicians.

So now we, the developers and only users of the nuclear bomb, are so terrified of what may now happen because of that, are about to invade another country and kill God knows how many innocents there.
I have no love for Saddam Hussein, and I'm fairly certain he is an evil person. The bottom line is that the US government has shown no concrete evidence that he plans to attack us and use weapons of mass destruction.
If we can't follow our own rules we are no better than he is.

America is not the only country on earth, just one of many. They have not elected us as King.

I do not think you are anti-american and I do not want a war with Iraq. Yes we developed the bomb and yes we are the only country to have used one.

However, you did not address the point of my post which was what is your alternative? I live in NYC and with the exception of Washington DC, is the most likely place for a dirty bomb to go off. I expect my government to protect me. What do you suggest we do? Wait until after one has been detonated? Or Chemical and biological weapons are given to terrorists to be used? Then it is too late.

We need to act before that happens. Personally, I wish that WMD had never been invented, but they have. The question is, do we just let countries (especially those with a crazy ruler and a recent history of armed aggression) develop them?

I say no.