Are you ever "justified" in using a racial slur?

[Le Jacquelope]

I think it depends on context. Do you mean it as something based solely on race, or based on actions?

Let me explain: I've used the word nigger before. In calling someone a nigger, it had nothing to do with the color of their skin, but how they were acting. They were acting like a nigger. The person I called a nigger was white.

I realize that the word historically has a racial meaning, but I simply see it in a different context. I see it relating to actions, not pigmentation.

And that's the other problem: it's okay to call a black person a nigger if you hit the convoluted strike zone of reasoning as to why. It's never right to fire back with anything.

 

[sr71plt]

They were acting like a nigger.

Uh. Oh. And just what would constitute "acting like a nigger"--presumably in a negative sense? (And what does that say about the one who thinks/makes such a statement?)

Isn't everyone getting tired of this thread yet?

The pillowfighters nearly buried it in domesticating sweet whipped cream up the line. Wouldn't that have been a good demise for it?

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Uh. Oh. And just what would constitute "acting like a nigger"--presumably in a negative sense? (And what does that say about the one who thinks/makes such a statement?)

Isn't everyone getting tired of this thread yet?

The pillowfighters nearly buried it in domesticating sweet whipped cream up the line. Wouldn't that have been a good demise for it?

I can tell you what my brother-in-law's definition is. "A person who by their actions makes their entire race (in my Brother-in-law's case, black) look bad."

I would assume that is the definition that Wildcard Ky uses.

Personally, I refrain from using the term at all. I am much more imaginative than to use a racially charged slur against someone. It's lazy and stupid. Call me "Cracker", "White Trash", "Republican" or another slur.. I'll likely laugh in your face and insult your ancestry and mating habits. What I won't do is retaliate in kind. Because that would make me just as lazy and ignorant as you are in initiating such an exchange.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Ok. Fine.

Since so many people from the General Board are so hell bent on telling their side of the story, portraying themselves as the victim, while forgetting to talk about what they did to instigate things, I figured I would explain by example the reason why these people LIE when they say they have a problem with racist speech.

Yes, the General Board lies when they say they have a problem with racist speech.
...
{edited for brevity}
...
Racial slurs are not accepted on the GB? That's a lie. A PROVABLE LIE. A provable, DOCUMENTED lie.


Now can someone please show me where I somehow PROVOKED those racial slurs from all those people? That's a trick question: remember, you all previously said retaliatory racial slurs was wrong.

Since you felt the need to cross post this diatribe both here and on the GB I'll just paste in the same response.

LT, nobody has to lie to show how much of a manipulative, abusive, hate-mongering asshole you are. All they have to do is direct anyone who thinks that in dealing with you that they are dealing with anything resembling sane or reasonable to any number of your past and current ravings.

There are very few people that have used any sort of racial slur against you. Yet you indict the entire General Board, myself included, who has never, ever used or defended the use of racist language and in fact have asked other people not to use it when I was around, refusing to interact with them until they complied. Yet because I objected to your use of racist language (retaliatory or not I don't make that distinction to justify bad behavior) you have tried to paint me as permissive of such behavior. Which is an outright falsehood. You tried to do the same thing to Black Shanglan, accusing him/her (I have no idea, nor do I much care what gender BS is) of "enabling" racist behavior. Again, a falsehood.

You've repeatedly defended your "right" to retaliate in kind, and invented excuses to do so against anyone who disagrees with you. You gasp and fan yourself when someone makes a comment, that you take out of context, like "Yeah because if they really cut loose the black people would be crying like little girls and screaming that the racist white people are evil. Such a double standard exists." in your poll, get this, asking who the biggest piece of "white trash" is. Somehow that statement is demeaning, but you referring to people as "white trash" isn't? Why not "Who is the biggest racist piece of shit on the GB?" Why "White Trash"?

Furthermore your retaliation knows no bounds, You will not only insult an entire race while attempting to "get back" at someone who called you a name, but you will trash their stories here, insult and threaten not only them, but their entire family. You call their children retards and accuse them of abusing them. You make repeated references to "anally raping" and "curb stomping"(Link for the uninformed) people that disagree with you. You have gone so far as to get people fired from their jobs, threatened to post personal information to the boards, gone to OTHER boards (UUNET) to try to incite violence against someone, traveled to other states for a "showdown" and God knows what else.

The sky is the limit with you, and god forbid that anyone call you on your ignorant bullshit when directed at someone else, because they're next in line under that broad brush. The next objective of your Crusade.

 

[Recidiva]

I think it depends on context. Do you mean it as something based solely on race, or based on actions?

Let me explain: I've used the word nigger before. In calling someone a nigger, it had nothing to do with the color of their skin, but how they were acting. They were acting like a nigger. The person I called a nigger was white.

I realize that the word historically has a racial meaning, but I simply see it in a different context. I see it relating to actions, not pigmentation.

That was essentially my point by saying black people use the word to indicate ignorance or poor behavior.

When LT says things like people deserve to be flayed and anally raped for using the word, we do question a simple word's power to evoke such violence, and tend to point to him as the source of threat and violence.

And me saying that you choose to take an insult infuriated him to where he interpreted it as a white person telling a black person how to feel.

I got that impression by his thread entitled "White people are now telling black people how to feel about racial slurs."

Never mind that it's my philosophy and it's how I feel and act.

He retaliates by all manner of threats of violence and retaliation. I'd known LT for about give or take a year and a half before these comments were made. I believe I did know how the game went.

To me it's my attitude toward terrorism also. No, I'm not afraid of you, no, I'm not subjected to your demands or requirements. No, what is holy to you does not have to be holy to me.

No, actually, I'm not putting on the Burkha. So shoot me.

This is his response.

 

[Recidiva]

Uh. Oh. And just what would constitute "acting like a nigger"--presumably in a negative sense? (And what does that say about the one who thinks/makes such a statement?)

Isn't everyone getting tired of this thread yet?

The pillowfighters nearly buried it in domesticating sweet whipped cream up the line. Wouldn't that have been a good demise for it?

I think race attitudes are an interesting subject, and one I'm happy to explore. This is an extreme case, but during the debates on the GB I've learned quite a bit.

This is partially my response to being told I should have no opinion, and I should keep my head down because I'm ignorant white trash and all high-minded people would crucify me if they knew the "real me."

Really?

Bring on the cross. Let's do this thing. Sounds like a good cause.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Since you felt the need to cross post this diatribe both here and on the GB I'll just paste in the same response.

LT, nobody has to lie to show how much of a manipulative, abusive, hate-mongering asshole you are. All they have to do is direct anyone who thinks that in dealing with you that they are dealing with anything resembling sane or reasonable to any number of your past and current ravings.

There are very few people that have used any sort of racial slur against you. Yet you indict the entire General Board, myself included, who has never, ever used or defended the use of racist language and in fact have asked other people not to use it when I was around, refusing to interact with them until they complied. Yet because I objected to your use of racist language (retaliatory or not I don't make that distinction to justify bad behavior) you have tried to paint me as permissive of such behavior. Which is an outright falsehood. You tried to do the same thing to Black Shanglan, accusing him/her (I have no idea, nor do I much care what gender BS is) of "enabling" racist behavior. Again, a falsehood.

You've repeatedly defended your "right" to retaliate in kind, and invented excuses to do so against anyone who disagrees with you. You gasp and fan yourself when someone makes a comment, that you take out of context, like "Yeah because if they really cut loose the black people would be crying like little girls and screaming that the racist white people are evil. Such a double standard exists." in your poll, get this, asking who the biggest piece of "white trash" is. Somehow that statement is demeaning, but you referring to people as "white trash" isn't? Why not "Who is the biggest racist piece of shit on the GB?" Why "White Trash"?

Furthermore your retaliation knows no bounds, You will not only insult an entire race while attempting to "get back" at someone who called you a name, but you will trash their stories here, insult and threaten not only them, but their entire family. You call their children retards and accuse them of abusing them. You make repeated references to "anally raping" and "curb stomping"(Link for the uninformed) people that disagree with you. You have gone so far as to get people fired from their jobs, threatened to post personal information to the boards, gone to OTHER boards (UUNET) to try to incite violence against someone, traveled to other states for a "showdown" and God knows what else.

The sky is the limit with you, and god forbid that anyone call you on your ignorant bullshit when directed at someone else, because they're next in line under that broad brush. The next objective of your Crusade.

Ah, you've managed to completely FAIL to explain how all those documented NIGGER insults, used against me, were in any way justified, or why no one had anything to say to the people who used them.

Now, in light of your inability to actually refute my evidence that you're a LIAR when you say you don't condone racial slurs, you come up with new charges.

Anal rape and flaying, you say? I thought that was okay to say. I mean, really. Guess where I parodied that from? http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=192645

And let us once again discuss the General Board's permissiveness towards physical threats of violence - threats that I did not instigate, and threats that no one criticized: http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=6509981&postcount=17

I bet if I search a little harder, I can show people where someone threatened to cut my TONGUE out over an argument where I never provoked that person with any threats of violence.

But yet once again, when I do it, it's calling all fucking cars on the GB.


On the General Board, as I said before, there is a no holds barred policy that has been in force for years. It's only when I adopted that policy that it became a problem.

 

[Recidiva]

Ah, you've managed to completely FAIL to explain how all those documented NIGGER insults, used against me, were in any way justified, or why no one had anything to say to the people who used them.

Now, in light of your inability to actually refute my evidence that you're a LIAR when you say you don't condone racial slurs, you come up with new charges.

Anal rape and flaying, you say? I thought that was okay to say. I mean, really. Guess where I parodied that from? http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=192645

And let us once again discuss the General Board's permissiveness towards physical threats of violence - threats that I did not instigate, and threats that no one criticized: http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=6509981&postcount=17

I bet if I search a little harder, I can show people where someone threatened to cut my TONGUE out over an argument where I never provoked that person with any threats of violence.

But yet once again, when I do it, it's calling all fucking cars on the GB.


On the General Board, as I said before, there is a no holds barred policy that has been in force for years. It's only when I adopted that policy that it became a problem.

I've got that your attitude is "Names will always hurt LT" and "LT's sticks and stones will break your bones."

 

[Le Jacquelope]

And me saying that you choose to take an insult infuriated him to where he interpreted it as a white person telling a black person how to feel.

I got that impression by his thread entitled "White people are now telling black people how to feel about racial slurs."

Never mind that it's my philosophy and it's how I feel and act.

1) If I were white you'd never have mentioned my race at all. You never do with anyone else.
2) Black people do have a God given right to take offense to that word, in light of how it has been used for the last nearly 200 years.
3) You try saying that to any black person on the street and see what happens.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I've got that your attitude is "Names will always hurt LT" and "LT's sticks and stones will break your bones."

What a way to completely FAIL once again to refute the fact that the GB does condone racial slurs/insults.

 

[Recidiva]

1) If I were white you'd never have mentioned my race at all. You never do with anyone else.
2) Black people do have a God given right to take offense to that word, in light of how it has been used for the last nearly 200 years.
3) You try saying that to any black person on the street and see what happens.

1. That thought is a trap. If I keep my head down and my eyes averted from all things black, I'm a reverse racist. It means I make judgments according to race. I don't. I make mention of race when the subject of race is raised. Other than that, no, I don't. But I will discuss it. I can't speak for other white people or for black people, because that's racist. I speak for myself and for my personal observations of race interaction and attitude.

2. You're making a sweeping generalization for an entire race. It discounts personal perspective, personal experience and assures that hatred and condemnation will continue eternally. That's racism. Tell me, what God given rights do white people have? I didn't get the memo, other than you speaking for God and telling me what's what.

3. I never would and never have said anything racist to a black person on the street. You're the one with a proven ability to jump straight to the racist aspect of anything and start accusing on the basis of race. I've heard racist epithets from your mouth that I've had to look up and have explained to me. You're well versed in racism. You use it to further hatred and misunderstanding. I use it as illustrations of humor and stupidity to show how moronic it is to allow words to move you to hatred and violence.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

1. That thought is a trap. If I keep my head down and my eyes averted from all things black, I'm a reverse racist. It means I make judgments according to race. I don't. I make mention of race when the subject of race is raised. Other than that, no, I don't. But I will discuss it. I can't speak for other white people or for black people, because that's racist. I speak for myself and for my personal observations of race interaction and attitude.

You did more than mention race. You used it as a bludgeon. There's a reason why I put up a poll about your comments and most people saw your behavior as a downright cowardly way to call someone a nigger. Ever wonder why the poll went that way?

2. You're making a sweeping generalization for an entire race. It discounts personal perspective, personal experience and assures that hatred and condemnation will continue eternally. That's racism. Tell me, what God given rights do white people have? I didn't get the memo, other than you speaking for God and telling me what's what.

No, I am not making sweeping generalizations. I am saying that black people have a right to take offense at 'nigger'. White people have a God given right not to like being called 'cracker' etc.

3. I never would and never have said anything racist to a black person on the street. You're the one with a proven ability to jump straight to the racist aspect of anything and start accusing on the basis of race. I've heard racist epithets from your mouth that I've had to look up and have explained to me. You're well versed in racism. You use it to further hatred and misunderstanding. I use it as illustrations of humor and stupidity to show how moronic it is to allow words to move you to hatred and violence.

When you tell someone "my brother in law would say you're a nigger", that's racist - and cowardly, too. Ever wonder why most poll respondents came to that decision and only ONE person voted that it wasn't racist?

Isn't it funny how you keep trying to justify calling me a nigger through your "brother in law"? There is no justification.

 

[Recidiva]

What a way to completely FAIL once again to refute the fact that the GB does condone racial slurs/insults.

I don't need to defend or refute an entire group's actions.

I've made the point several times that there's no way to enforce behavior on the internet. Many people put racist and hateful stuff on ignore and that's the end of it for them.

What you are doing is ignoring that after seeing that the source of most of the most virulent hate is coming from you and you're the one who brings it up the most, people will point to you as the instigator.

You find racism behind every blade of grass in the landscape and every word. You're the boy who cried racism. People just don't jump to it when you start screaming bloody murder. Because you're always screaming bloody murder. Maybe folks fall for it the first three or four or seven times. But after a few hundred times, people fail to defend your bullshit, and then you accuse THEM of being a blade of grass and a word that harbors racism.

 

[Recidiva]

You did more than mention race. You used it as a bludgeon. There's a reason why I put up a poll about your comments and most people saw your behavior as a downright cowardly way to call someone a nigger. Ever wonder why the poll went that way?


No, I am not making sweeping generalizations. I am saying that black people have a right to take offense at 'nigger'. White people have a God given right not to like being called 'cracker' etc.


When you tell someone "my brother in law would say you're a nigger", that's racist - and cowardly, too. Ever wonder why most poll respondents came to that decision and only ONE person voted that it wasn't racist?

Isn't it funny how you keep trying to justify calling me a nigger through your "brother in law"? There is no justification.

I don't think your poll is an accurate representation of what I did or why, and that's my prerogative. I'm not the one that values the court of public opinion here. You and anyone else can think what they want. I'll defend myself as I see fit. Or not.

I don't care about being called a cracker. I think it's funny. I find it to be one of the greatest examples of racist bullshit, and the person uttering it to be foolish. That's why you're where you are in my estimation of sanity and character and intelligence.

No, when I present my subjective experience of having a black brother in law who calls other black people "niggers" - the fact is that I called him on that being racist, and he accepts that. But he's not going to stop calling people niggers. The nuance here escapes you. But it hasn't escaped me. Me being upset at him using the word...won't change him using it. That affects my opinion about the use of the word in practical terms. I don't use it. It's used all the time by other people, enough so that it means very different things to different people, black and white. The fact that you can't grasp my point of view is fine. You telling me what my point of view is, not so fine.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I don't need to defend or refute an entire group's actions.

I've made the point several times that there's no way to enforce behavior on the internet. Many people put racist and hateful stuff on ignore and that's the end of it for them.

Yet here you are trying to enforce behavior on the internet.

What you are doing is ignoring that after seeing that the source of most of the most virulent hate is coming from you and you're the one who brings it up the most, people will point to you as the instigator.

And you're ignoring the fact that when virulent hate comes from others, no one cares.

You find racism behind every blade of grass in the landscape and every word.

You're lying through your teeth again. 'Nigger' is racist. Period. Pity you're too stupid or in denial to understand that.

You're the boy who cried racism.

I didn't cry racism, I proved it, documented it and put it in a neat dossier for you and others to read. And now you're completely ignoring it and dancing new steps to get around it.

People just don't jump to it when you start screaming bloody murder.

But you sure jump to it when I retaliate.

Because you're always screaming bloody murder. Maybe folks fall for it the first three or four or seven times. But after a few hundred times, people fail to defend your bullshit, and then you accuse THEM of being a blade of grass and a word that harbors racism.

And this shows just how stupid, dishonest and clueless you really are.

You want to have your cake and eat it, too - to call someone a nigger and then make threads like this when they retaliate.

 

[Le Jacquelope]

So, while Recidiva is working up her/his/its next convoluted response, let us answer the poll's question:

Are you ever "justified" in using a racial slur?

Recidiva has now repeatedly said yes. As long as you use it against someone in a way that he/she/it approves.

You may continue to spin away, Recidiva.

 

[Recidiva]

Yet here you are trying to enforce behavior on the internet.

And you're ignoring the fact that when virulent hate comes from others, no one cares.

You're lying through your teeth again. 'Nigger' is racist. Period. Pity you're too stupid or in denial to understand that.

I didn't cry racism, I proved it, documented it and put it in a neat dossier for you and others to read. And now you're completely ignoring it and dancing new steps to get around it.

But you sure jump to it when I retaliate.

And this shows just how stupid, dishonest and clueless you really are.

You want to have your cake and eat it, too - to call someone a nigger and then make threads like this when they retaliate.

I'm not trying to tell you what to think. I am pointing out what I think are logical and practical flaws in the execution and experience of your social models.

If I didn't care, you'd be on ignore. I do care. I just don't back you up 100% of the time, and I call you on your inaccuracies and revisionist history.

I'm not lying. I am being honest. You are a judgmental, hateful person who wants to see people physically harmed for personal opinions because of what you believe to be God given rights. That is my opinion.

I am not advocating violence against you, I'm not advocating hatred against you. I'm advocating thinking and being reasonable about people's right to their own opinions, unpopular or popular.

You want to believe I called you a nigger so you can conduct this Inquisition. You have a right to your point of view. I have a right to mine. It's the difference in tactics and methods and outcomes that I find to be interesting.

 

[Recidiva]

So, while Recidiva is working up her/his/its next convoluted response, let us answer the poll's question:

Are you ever "justified" in using a racial slur?

Recidiva has now repeatedly said yes. As long as you use it against someone in a way that he/she/it approves.

You may continue to spin away, Recidiva.

Let me say it's a lot more interesting to have this conversation with you here where you're choosing your words more carefully. It's refreshing.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Ah, you've managed to completely FAIL to explain how all those documented NIGGER insults, used against me, were in any way justified, or why no one had anything to say to the people who used them.

Now, in light of your inability to actually refute my evidence that you're a LIAR when you say you don't condone racial slurs, you come up with new charges.

Anal rape and flaying, you say? I thought that was okay to say. I mean, really. Guess where I parodied that from? http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=192645

And let us once again discuss the General Board's permissiveness towards physical threats of violence - threats that I did not instigate, and threats that no one criticized: http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=6509981&postcount=17

I bet if I search a little harder, I can show people where someone threatened to cut my TONGUE out over an argument where I never provoked that person with any threats of violence.

But yet once again, when I do it, it's calling all fucking cars on the GB.


On the General Board, as I said before, there is a no holds barred policy that has been in force for years. It's only when I adopted that policy that it became a problem.

Since you still insist on cross posting to both forums...
I didn't avoid anything, I completely dismissed your sweeping generalization.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? You keep saying that I condone the use of racial slurs, but you can't show one instance, even one, where I did so. In fact, every post I've made regarding this issue condemns those that instigate as well as those who retaliate with racial slurs. THAT is the truth of the matter, and the latter part of that is why you have issue with me. You keep hammering the same talking point with no actual evidence that I've done what you've accused me of doing, I've shown proof, in your very own words to back up everything I've said about you, and yet somehow I'm the liar.

You're not only insane, but you're SO insane that I think that you actually believe what you say despite a lack of any evidence to back it up.

There are very few people that have used any sort of racial slur against you. Yet you indict the entire General Board, myself included, who has never, ever used or defended the use of racist language and in fact have asked other people not to use it when I was around, refusing to interact with them until they complied. Yet because I objected to your use of racist language (retaliatory or not I don't make that distinction to justify bad behavior) you have tried to paint me as permissive of such behavior. Which is an outright falsehood. You tried to do the same thing to Black Shanglan, accusing him/her (I have no idea, nor do I much care what gender BS is) of "enabling" racist behavior. Again, a falsehood.

 

[xssve]

That was essentially my point by saying black people use the word to indicate ignorance or poor behavior.

So? When it's used by White people, it "watch your fucking back" - and historically, the prelude to physical violence.

Calling me a "Whitey" or "grey boy" or 'White devil", Redneck, etc., etc., just doesn't have the same emotional context for me that the N word has for Black folks - I've argued and debated with LT any number of times in here, and race never came up, I had no idea he was Black, really don't care, it's not an issue because I never went out of my way to make it one, and neither did he, it just never came up.

Think about that.

You can try to talk it away all day, I used to do it, exaustive analytical essays on etymology and linguistics, but the fact remains that this word simply makes Black folks very uneasy - it evokes fear - lynching is phenomona of living memory, not some abstract historical report - nooses have been left where they were sure to be found at the Coast Guard Academy by a Black student, and a woman in charge of racial sensitivity training respectively.

You use that term and it's tanatamount to a threat of physical violence, that is the difference between the N word and any other racial epithet, no matter who uses it, or who it's applied to - it has a very different social/psychological context, and if they want to use it amongst themselves, that's Black folks business: they have made it clear they don't care for it when I use it, even in an objective, analytical way, like you're all pretending to do, and so out of simple respect for human dignity, I won't.

I haven't found that this restraint has caused me any real stress of any sort, I've just stayed out of a lot of stupid arguments, and I have avoided inadvertantly hurting the feelings of some very lovely, senisitive people through my obliviousness to the very real visceral reaction this word invariabley evokes, no matter what context it occurs in.

This isn't a joke, and to keep picking at a raw nerve like that is indefensible, even despicable not matter what your professed motives may be. It's very easy to say "get over it", I mean, we haven't persecuted any Black people, since, well, last week at least - every time they hear that word, they feel a boot on their neck, and see the shadow of the noose on the wall, and that's what you're putting them through every time you use it.

 

[Recidiva]

So? When it's used by White people, it "watch your fucking back" - and historically, the prelude to physical violence.

Calling me a "Whitey" or "grey boy" or 'White devil", Redneck, etc., etc., just doesn't have the same emotional context for me that the N word has for Black folks - I've argued and debated with LT any number of times in here, and race never came up, I had no idea he was Black, really don't care, it's not an issue because I never went out of my way to make it one, and neither did he, it just never came up.

Think about that.

You can try to talk it away all day, I used to do it, exaustive analytical essays on etymology and linguistics, but the fact remains that this word simply makes Black folks very uneasy - it evokes fear - lynching is phenomona of living memory, not some abstract historical report - nooses have been left where they were sure to be found at the Coast Guard Academy by a Black student, and a woman in charge of racial sensitivity training respectively.

You use that term and it's tanatamount to a threat of physical violence, that is the difference between the N word and any other racial epithet, no matter who uses it, or who it's applied to - it has a very different social/psychological context, and if they want to use it amongst themselves, that's Black folks business: they have made it clear they don't care for it when I use it, even in an objective, analytical way, like you're all pretending to do, and so out of simple respect for human dignity, I won't.

I haven't found that this restraint has caused me any real stress of any sort, I've just stayed out of a lot of stupid arguments, and I have avoided inadvertantly hurting the feelings of some very lovely, senisitive people through my obliviousness to the very real visceral reaction this word invariabley evokes, no matter what context it occurs in.

This isn't a joke, and to keep picking at a raw nerve like that is indefensible, even despicable not matter what your professed motives may be. It's very easy to say "get over it", I mean, we haven't persecuted any Black people, since, well, last week at least - every time they hear that word, they feel a boot on their neck, and see the shadow of the noose on the wall, and that's what you're putting them through every time you use it.

Basically I disagree with the "we's" involved in this posting.

Not every black person is offended. To assume so is presumptuous.

I've never called anybody a racial epithet, never will. To assume so is presumptuous.

I personally haven't persecuted any black people or judged them according to their race and not their behavior. I refuse to be held accountable for group guilt in something I didn't, and never would have, participated in.

To assume if I was back in slave trading days and I wouldn't have participated in freeing slaves, is presumptuous. I believe it's something worth dying for, freeing people from persecution. But there are LOTS of faces to persecution, and I believe I'm confronting one right here.

In short, I feel I give white people and black people more free will on the subject, and refuse to accept any pigeonholing that excludes the concepts of forgiveness. I also refuse to be guilty for something I didn't, and have never done.

 

[xssve]

Basically I disagree with the "we's" involved in this posting.

Not every black person is offended. To assume so is presumptuous.

I've never called anybody a racial epithet, never will. To assume so is presumptuous.

I personally haven't persecuted any black people or judged them according to their race and not their behavior. I refuse to be held accountable for group guilt in something I didn't, and never would have, participated in.

To assume if I was back in slave trading days and I wouldn't have participated in freeing slaves, is presumptuous. I believe it's something worth dying for, freeing people from persecution. But there are LOTS of faces to persecution, and I believe I'm confronting one right here.

In short, I feel I give white people and black people more free will on the subject, and refuse to accept any pigeonholing that excludes the concepts of forgiveness. I also refuse to be guilty for something I didn't, and have never done.

Doesn't fucking matter what you did or didn't do, or what you accept or refuse to accept, or how much "free will" you think you're furnishing - the only principle involved here is the threat of institutional, personal violence - the word itself is a threat of physical violence, period, which is why it evokes a violent response, and you're not gonna defuse that anytime soon, you're just a voice in a choir, and most of choir is carrying rope - and when they use it, a thousand times to your one, they are talking about the Ahor, the black hole, they yawning pit of hopelessness and death.

Thing about a mob is, it's hard to sit back and pick out who is really out to get you and who's just along for the ride - it all boils down to the same thing.

This isn't about guilt, all we're talking about is not using one stupid word. I didn't do any of that shit either, and having managed to avoid that through some accident of birth, I'd just soon keep it that way so I don't have to feel guilty.

You wanna show how progressive you are, you just don't use that word, period, and everybody is happy unless you have Tourettes or something - otherwise all it indicates is obliviousness.

This is experience talking, it's a pretty simple concept - stay the fuck out of that particular choir, or you're just part of that mob: your intentions are entirely irrelevant, you're not changing it, you're just adding volume to the dissonence.

 

[xssve]

See, the part you're not getting here Recidiva, is that you can't sharpshoot with this word, you can't pick and choose who you apply it to, it automatically targets all Black people, everywhere, not just the ones who are lucky enough not to be bothered by it - it's truely a weapon of mass dehumanization.

 

[Recidiva]

Doesn't fucking matter what you did or didn't do, or what you accept or refuse to accept, or how much "free will" you think you're furnishing - the only principle involved here is the threat of institutional, personal violence - the word itself is a threat of physical violence, period, which is why it evokes a violent response, and you're not gonna defuse that anytime soon, you're just a voice in a choir, and most of choir is carrying rope - and when they use it, a thousand times to your one, they are talking about the Ahor, the black hole, they yawning pit of hopelessness and death.

Thing about a mob is, it's hard to sit back and pick out who is really out to get you and who's just along for the ride - it all boils down to the same thing.

This isn't about guilt, all we're talking about is not using one stupid word. I didn't do any of that shit either, and having managed to avoid that through some accident of birth, I'd just soon keep it that way so I don't have to feel guilty.

You wanna show how progressive you are, you just don't use that word, period, and everybody is happy unless you have Tourettes or something - otherwise all it indicates is obliviousness.

This is experience talking, it's a pretty simple concept - stay the fuck out of that particular choir, or you're just part of that mob: your intentions are entirely irrelevant, you're not changing it, you're just adding volume to the dissonence.

I don't use the word. But I'm not afraid of it.

This is where I stand. I'm not going to use it. But I'm also not going to be afraid to use the word in context in a discussion about race attitudes. I also don't bleep out "G*d" so I don't take the Lord's name in vain. Different people believe in different profanities. Particularly here, on this site, I will say what I wish, in the context I choose, and I won't have my words twisted to suit someone else's purposes out of fear of some Shibboleth test. I am not afraid of words. This is my opinion. I am not afraid of hearing them. I am not afraid of saying them. If I hold that I have not said it in a hateful or violent context, but in a way of exploring an issue, I have the right to that belief. I believe my actions and history hold up to scrutiny.

It's a bit like being told that all women suffer the stigma of Eve in the Garden of Eden. No, sorry. Not my responsibility. I'm not responsible for that myth.

I'm also not responsible for the myth that all white people need to suffer for the historical actions of other white people. I don't believe that anybody needs to suffer for the actions of others. I don't hold present-day Germans or Japanese responsible for World War II. I don't hold present-day Scandanavians for Viking raids. That's history.

I'm an individual person who will not bother you in your beliefs or myths. You are welcome to them. But do not attempt to enforce them upon me, or your standards based on "The sins of the father become the sins of the sons."

I don't believe in that. I believe in individuality. If I need to die or be persecuted just for believing that, well, I think that's happened historically too to those who stand up for their own opinions and the right to express them and hold them.

LT has a situation here where he's taken to consensual context of the GB and tried to present it as if it were a nonconsentual format. As if he were just sitting there and I screamed out "nigger!" for some reason. That is not what happened. Even framing it in that manner, as if I were some racist coward, is preposterous.

I am on trial here for daring to utter a word...in context of the meaning of that word.

It's interesting to me how many people are willing to condemn the use of a word in a sentence. In an Author's Hangout. It's truly fascinating.

I do believe I've taken "progressive" attitudes of fear and hatred and blame to a reasonable conclusion. I'm progressing to pointing out how ridiculous it is to be afraid of a word. In my mind, the most reasonable response to an insult of racial content...is laughter at the stupidity of the person saying it. Outrage would give it far too much power over me.

 

[Recidiva]

See, the part you're not getting here Recidiva, is that you can't sharpshoot with this word, you can't pick and choose who you apply it to, it automatically targets all Black people, everywhere, not just the ones who are lucky enough not to be bothered by it - it's truely a weapon of mass dehumanization.

What you're not getting is that I never called anybody a nigger. Or any other racial epithet. You can believe I did. But that does not at all mean that I actually did.