Are you afraid to be a Christian?

[AppleBiter]

Nor will I deny my lack of belief.

Perhaps that is more dangerous in the United States today.

I'm sorry . . . BS replied to something I said earlier w/a question. I hadn't seen it until now and so now, I'm replying to the question he asked me, not overstating my answer or anything.

I don't think anyone should deny belief or lack of belief in whatever they choose or don't choose to believe in. I think the danger comes in when people don't choose to be comfortable and accepting of others' beliefs and practices.

 

[Guest]

I'm sorry . . . BS replied to something I said earlier w/a question. I hadn't seen it until now and so now, I'm replying to the question he asked me, not overstating my answer or anything.

I don't think anyone should deny belief or lack of belief in whatever they choose or don't choose to believe in. I think the danger comes in when people don't choose to be comfortable and accepting of others' beliefs and practices.

I agree.

(And I was responding to BS as well - I just quoted you instead of him. Oops.)

 

[zeb1094]

I agree.

(And I was responding to BS as well - I just quoted you instead of him. Oops.)

Ok, I'll have to call a mis-quote penalty. Ten yards, lose of down, play ball!

 

[CharleyH]

I agree.

(And I was responding to BS as well - I just quoted you instead of him. Oops.)

Good Lord! (?) how we miscomminicate. = exciting to me. chuckle - laugh -

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I find it funny that the most preachy and sanctimonious person on this board is the resident, militant atheist, amicus.

I frankly don't think that morality is anything other than a matter of educated guesswork and opinions. I hold to my morality, and yes, it is tied to my religion, though saying which is the cause and which the effect is a "chicken vs. egg" question. I happen to believe that my morality is strongly linked to science, but science doesn't PROVE it, any more than it proves my religion.

I am a pagan. And, to quote Tony Curtis in "Vikings", "If my soul is content to be heathen, and your soul is content to be Christian, let's not question flesh for wanting to remain flesh." That sums my attitude about the matter pretty well. I have Christian, atheist, Muslim, Jewish, etc. friends. My friendship with them is not based on faith. It is based on affection and respect for the person, not just one aspect of them, like their faith. I DO respect those who believe what they do firmly, without the need to shove it down people's throats. Like my Muslim friend, Houman.

 

[Guest]

Good Lord! (?) how we miscomminicate. = exciting to me. chuckle - laugh -

Come over here and kiss, er, say that to my face.

 

[BlackSnake]

... I doubt anyone of any religion or belief should be ashamed, or even right to the detriment of another belief, so why do we all make eachother feel ashamed or wrong to believe in what we do? Why do we fight over it and war over it? difficult questions, I know.

Because we are cowards, we want to fit in to the group. We hush our voices when we hear others pass judgment, we fear that judgment will turn on us. We only stand up we there are others standing up. We dare not be different. We fight for things we don't believe in because we fear...

 

[entitled]

<hijack>
Houman is just a cool name.
</hijack>

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

<hijack>
Houman is just a cool name.
</hijack>

He'd be glad to know that. I won't say his ethnicity, per his request. But you can probably guess.

 

[entitled]

He'd be glad to know that. I won't say his ethnicity, per his request. But you can probably guess.

Ethnicity doesn't matter to me. But it's a cool name.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Ethnicity doesn't matter to me. But it's a cool name.

Thanks.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I agree whole heartedly. But I do think the thread has taken a spin since you posted. I doubt anyone of any religion or belief should be ashamed, or even right to the detriment of another belief, so why do we all make eachother feel ashamed or wrong to believe in what we do? Why do we fight over it and war over it? difficult questions, I know.

I think it's because there's simply nothing too silly for you little two-legs to get up to.

Seriously, I think some of it has to do with power. Religions have power; humans want power. That works pretty well if you take over or start your own religion, but then there are all of those annoying little sods who choose to believe something else. If you got into the religion game for the power of it in the first place, then the solution seems simple: force them to convert.

When you look at some of the most egregious offences involving religion - Irish penal laws, for example, or the Inquisition, or forcible conversion of "heathens" - they boil down to a very human desire for temporal power.

Shanglan

 

[Munachi]

haven't read the whole thread... well anyway, i am a christian and i hope i am not afraid of saying so. i might be at times without noticing myself. of course there have been situations in which i kept more or less quiet about it, sometimes just because i have grown tired of always the same arguments... there were other times when i discussed it more than i wanted to, when i basically felt pushed into a position where i had to defend my believes because no one else would... which always makes me get a bit annoyed when people point out how they are christians who want to press their belief on everyone - i have met quite a few atheists who have been trying to basically do the very same thing. though of course also many that didn't. there are nice people and assholes everywhere i suppose...

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

If you are a christian and afraid to proclaim it, you're not one. If you are a christian and you are not afraid to proclaim it, you should be.

 

[Halo_n_horns]

If you are a christian and afraid to proclaim it, you're not one. If you are a christian and you are not afraid to proclaim it, you should be.

My first name is Christian ... literally. How's that for a proclamation?

 

[Guest]

If you are a christian and afraid to proclaim it, you're not one. If you are a christian and you are not afraid to proclaim it, you should be.

No, hon. I don't believe your statement is accurate.

But I do believe many have turned away from organized religion because of that particular mindset.

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[Jubal_Harshaw]

I disagree with the first statement. What it says is tantamount to requiring a Christian to be perfect. In Christian thought only one person* has been able to pull that off, and he seemed to be quite forgiving of those who were less than perfect.

(*I don't mean to slight those of you who believe Mary to have been sinless, but I don't subscribe to that belief.)

I beg to differ. Every church I have ever been to, and that's quite a few, taught that in order to be a proper christian you need to witness and profess your faith to anyone and everyone. Even their hymns tell you to shout it from the mountain tops. Most protestant doctrines teach that you have a higher place in heaven for proffessing your faith diligently. Therefore if you are afraid to proclaim yourself one of God's children, you are not a proper christian.

On the other hand, those that do proclaim their faith on those terms more often either become fanatical or at the very least appear to be. When you pound your bible down everyone elses throats and berate them for their 'sinful ways' even though they don't believe in your god and poke your nose where it doesn't belong a few hundred times to many, you WILL piss a lot of people off. Piss people off enough and your liabel to end up daisey food.

How many wars have already been fought in the name of christianity? How many were fought because one christian sect broke away from another? Where do you think protestants came from? For that matter where did you think the catholics came from? How many others has your god killed during 'Inquisitions', Crusades, witch hunts and countless other justifiable mass murders? How many laws have been passed banning one thing or another because of christian morality? In a country that has supposedly seperated church and state. Oh but that only works one way, doesn't it? And when someone says, "I don't believe in your god. He doesn't exist." You all scream, "BLASPHEMY!!!" You just fail to realise it's only blasphemy if you believe. You try to pass laws to force public schools to teach your faith for you.


What gives christianity a bad name isn't the athiests. They could care less about you. What gives christians a bad name is the christians. I can tell you that every time one of them comes knocking on my door I get a little more preturbed. When my co-workers try to drag me into religious debates, I tell them, "I don't want to hear it." Do they stop and leave me alone? Hell, no. They chase me all though the damned building calling me a heathen and telling me I'm afraid of the wrath of a god I don't believe in. THAT is what gives christians a bad rap.

The christian contingent really needs to learn to mind their own business and let those who don't share their faith live their own lives. After all the NON-christians have a constitutional right to Freedom from Religious Persecution.

 

[Owlwhisper]

.....

 

[BlackShanglan]

I beg to differ. Every church I have ever been to, and that's quite a few, taught that in order to be a proper christian you need to witness and profess your faith to anyone and everyone. Even their hymns tell you to shout it from the mountain tops. Most protestant doctrines teach that you have a higher place in heaven for proffessing your faith diligently. Therefore if you are afraid to proclaim yourself one of God's children, you are not a proper christian.

The christian contingent really needs to learn to mind their own business and let those who don't share their faith live their own lives. After all the NON-christians have a constitutional right to Freedom from Religious Persecution.

So if I'm reading you rightly ... you've decided to define Christians only as people who follow the practice that annoys you?

I'm not surprised that they're getting on your nerves. However, it hardly seems sporting both to complain about the proselytizing and to insist that those who don't do it aren't good Christians. Are only people who annoy you permitted to go to heaven? It seems like a dangerous precedent to set.

Personally, I'm a Catholic. The saner members of my church actually discourage active conversion missions and concentrate on witnessing through works of earthly charity. I consider myself a Christian. I recognize that some other Christian churches may not think I am, but I don't see any particularly compelling reason to assume that they are correct.

Shanglan

 

[Guest]

. . . Are only people who annoy you permitted to go to heaven? It seems like a dangerous precedent to set.

Shanglan

By that reckoning, most politicians are NOT doomed to hell. Jeez, I need a drink.


(My apologies for the post edit, Shang.)

 

[entitled]

... concentrate on witnessing through works of earthly charity.

Shanglan

This defines a true christian - one that follows the example of Jesus.

What Jubal describes is what i call a wanna-be christian. They don't follow the examples written in the bible, they follow one minister's interpretation of the examples in the holy books. An entirely different thing.

 

[BlackShanglan]

(My apologies for the post edit, Shang.)

Not a problem in the least. My brain is functioning very slowly this evening.

 

[cloudy]

When you look at some of the most egregious offences involving religion - Irish penal laws, for example, or the Inquisition, or forcible conversion of "heathens" - they boil down to a very human desire for temporal power.

Shanglan

Indeed.

Owera and I had a long discussion once about Christians wanting to smite us.

I still find that word the most giggle-producing in the english language.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Indeed.

Owera and I had a long discussion once about Christians wanting to smite us.

I still find that word the most giggle-producing in the english language.

Cloudy. Good to see you.

Yes, that whole smiting thing is remarkably silly. Under the word itself is that amazing assumption that humans get to tell God who to punish.

I think that one of the most reliable guides to interpreting Scripture is to ask if one's own interpretation might tend to elevate one above others, increase one's power or wealth, or make one the center of attention. If so, it's probably the wrong reading. Jesus doesn't seem to have been fond of any of those things.

But then, what do I know? I'm just a horse with delusions of genderhood.

Shanglan