a question for american men

[4est_4est_Gump]

But men in America are often told that that is the golden ticket. The plush office and the sleek car are the ultimate desirables to women.

Of course it's usually other men touting this, not the women. You and Chippy were correct that the bank account usually designates the class in this country. We are young, we are told that the "American Dream" is within our reach if we just make enough money, buy the shiny things and flaunt, flaunt, flaunt.

That being said, if you ask most women I know, they're looking for a man who, yes, has a job and shows commitment to something but it doesn't have to include a corner office. I tend to make more than almost every guy I've ever dated, I don't care, what I do care about is that he doesn't take advantage of that. That there is some give and take, some sharing of the bill if you will.

I spend my Sunday nights sipping good whiskey and talking about guys with my single girlfriends. We all say the same things, what's important is 1st, them showing us that we matter, checking on us, making contact through the week. 2nd that he's honest and kind. 3rd that he's taking care of his own business, not that he's got a high paying job, just that he's got a plan for his life.

That's it.

Who is telling them that? It ain't men...

Could it be actual experience?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

thankyou for your contribution.

the point dolf, myself, and a few other ladies here are attempting to make is that a guy can be quite capable of supporting a pregnant partner or a growing family without being rich, and that just because a richer man came along it doesn't mean the woman would leave her partner to be with the one with the bigger wallet.

But that is not original choice.

Now, the guy supporting the family, while not rich, would he have had a shot if he lacked the ability to do even that?

 

[butters]

Who is telling them that? It ain't men...

Could it be actual experience?

no, it's the media trying to get you to buy their products. till recently, advertising was largely main-dominated.

 

[fair_warning]

Females dont respect males, period. They fear males, and resent how males ignore the social conventions that tie females down like Gulliver.

Bullshit buddy boy.

What century are you referring to?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Bullshit buddy boy.

What century are you referring to?

2nd, BC...




Oh, I forgot... BCE... Like we do not know what it means...

 

[butters]

But that is not original choice.

Now, the guy supporting the family, while not rich, would he have had a shot if he lacked the ability to do even that?

if by original choice you mean what i asked, yes it is.

there are always other options, and you've only to look at how many unemployed males have partners and dependents to see that they clearly do 'have a shot', at least with some women. i reiterate, it's about the reasons why the man might be unemployed, not the simple fact of not working at that time. couple that with the fact that more and more women are earning today, the size of a man's income is less relevant if a couple's not hurting for money if a woman can earn more, and they still wish to raise a family, then why shouldn't the father be the designated stay-at-home parent?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

no, it's the media trying to get you to buy their products. till recently, advertising was largely main-dominated.

You are going to have to prove that since my understanding of marketing, other than beer and cars during the game, is that it is aimed at who does the purchasing, the wife and the little terrorists who cheep like hungry birds until she gets the the sugar cereal or toy that they just cannot live without.



Love and marriage,
Love and marriage,
It's an institution you can't disparage...



*clink*

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

if by original choice you mean what i asked, yes it is.

there are always other options, and you've only to look at how many unemployed males have partners and dependents to see that they clearly do 'have a shot', at least with some women. i reiterate, it's about the reasons why the man might be unemployed, not the simple fact of not working at that time. couple that with the fact that more and more women are earning today, the size of a man's income is less relevant if a couple's not hurting for money if a woman can earn more, and they still wish to raise a family, then why shouldn't the father be the designated stay-at-home parent?

No, it was about changing horses in mid-stream...

Why is it the guy always leaves his wife for a younger poorer woman and not a richer older woman (unless, of course, his name is John Forbes Kerry)?

 

[butters]

You are going to have to prove that since my understanding of marketing, other than beer and cars during the game, is that it is aimed at who does the purchasing, the wife and the little terrorists who cheep like hungry birds until she gets the the sugar cereal or toy that they just cannot live without.



Love and marriage,
Love and marriage,
It's an institution you can't disparage...



*clink*

bloody typos

'man dominated'. i was typing 'mainly' and got distracted.

oh, for sure - the wife demands you buy the flashy two-seater sports model, or the ultr-expensive wristwatch, or the most fashionable designer label suits and shoes

not

i take on board your other items, but used the car (specifically) as it links to dolf's example about how an american male sent her a picture of his car in order to impress her with his value as a person.

 

[butters]

No, it was about changing horses in mid-stream...

Why is it the guy always leaves his wife for a younger poorer woman and not a richer older woman (unless, of course, his name is John Forbes Kerry)?

if you say so

they don't. always. quite often a man will leave for a younger woman simply because it feeds his ego to think he can still attract young flesh. sometimes it's because his wife makes him feel old, and unloved, and the younger (less 'experienced') girl looks up to him - not being familiar with his faults. and sometimes it's because the marriage just doesn't work and plenty of people are still attracted to the same kind of model we found attractive as we did in our earlier years.

oh, just to say that the richer, older woman might be a bit more clued-up on male nature and not relish the idea of taking on someone else's husband who's jumped ship unless they happen to fall in love.

but it's a sweeping generalisation to say what you did, and i don't accept it as a definite truth. times they are a-changing.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

But she's not going to gold-dig off a poor old man, now is she?

 

[CandiCame]

if by original choice you mean what i asked, yes it is.

there are always other options, and you've only to look at how many unemployed males have partners and dependents to see that they clearly do 'have a shot', at least with some women. i reiterate, it's about the reasons why the man might be unemployed, not the simple fact of not working at that time. couple that with the fact that more and more women are earning today, the size of a man's income is less relevant if a couple's not hurting for money if a woman can earn more, and they still wish to raise a family, then why shouldn't the father be the designated stay-at-home parent?

How often does that happen though? I don't know where you are, but where I am, the economy is shit. You simply can't live as a unit without two incomes. Who makes more isn't as relevent as it is that everybody's working and you're surviving. You have to put things in their proper perspective and order. You can't think about the metaphysical aspects of your relationship until the concrete are taken care of. You don't start bitching about who's earning more money because it makes you feel like a dependent until you've paid your fucking rent. At that point (the broke as hell point) you're bitching that whoever doesn't make enough is fucking broke and needs to pick up some extra income- a second job or overtime or whathave you.

There's just not that often that anyone can be a stay at home parent. I honestly just went through everyone I know, and I can't think of a single person, male or female who can afford to do that. I know one woman with no under the table job, but she has sever arthritis and gets disability from when she did work that still contributes to her household income. If you were rich, this might be an issue, but as it stands now, nobody wants to date somebody broke, because if they do get intimate and move in together, it's another mouth to feed, and more utility bills to pay (another person using electricity and water and whatnot). And the reality of it is, that you have to offset that.

The Beatles were wrong. Love isn't all you need. You have to survive.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The conceit of every generation is that somehow, maybe it is the iPhone, they are new, "socially" evolved and somehow separated from the general human condition of Shakespeare's day...



... conceit, of course, does not make any thing true.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

How often does that happen though? I don't know where you are, but where I am, the economy is shit. You simply can't live as a unit without two incomes. Who makes more isn't as relevent as it is that everybody's working and you're surviving. You have to put things in their proper perspective and order. You can't think about the metaphysical aspects of your relationship until the concrete are taken care of. You don't start bitching about who's earning more money because it makes you feel like a dependent until you've paid your fucking rent. At that point (the broke as hell point) you're bitching that whoever doesn't make enough is fucking broke and needs to pick up some extra income- a second job or overtime or whathave you.

There's just not that often that anyone can be a stay at home parent. I honestly just went through everyone I know, and I can't think of a single person, male or female who can afford to do that. I know one woman with no under the table job, but she has sever arthritis and gets disability from when she did work that still contributes to her household income. If you were rich, this might be an issue, but as it stands now, nobody wants to date somebody broke, because if they do get intimate and move in together, it's another mouth to feed, and more utility bills to pay (another person using electricity and water and whatnot). And the reality of it is, that you have to offset that.

The Beatles were wrong. Love isn't all you need. You have to survive.

Baby, you wanna see my 401K?

Maybe then I'll get those hot pics I've been asking for...

Let me tell you, living with a woman is a bitch; they know everything about you, because they're a woman, and you know nothing about them because you're a guy...

 

[CandiCame]

No, it was about changing horses in mid-stream...

Why is it the guy always leaves his wife for a younger poorer woman and not a richer older woman (unless, of course, his name is John Forbes Kerry)?

Both genders tend to form relationships with younger individuals once they've established themselves financially. For every older man with a hot secretary, there's an older lady with a hot pool-boy. And sometimes there's an older lady with a hot maid and an older man with a south American rent boy. Lotsa stuff goes on in those circles that folk don't like to talk about, and then get pissed when they get caught over.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Both genders tend to form relationships with younger individuals once they've established themselves financially. For every older man with a hot secretary, there's an older lady with a hot pool-boy. And sometimes there's an older lady with a hot maid and an older man with a south American rent boy. Lotsa stuff goes on in those circles that folk don't like to talk about, and then get pissed when they get caught over.

So there's a wallet involved...


Mine is thick, but since it is ample, I have not expressed it via my choice of vehicle...

 

[CandiCame]

Baby, you wanna see my 401K?

Maybe then I'll get those hot pics I've been asking for...

Let me tell you, living with a woman is a bitch; they know everything about you, because they're a woman, and you know nothing about them because you're a guy...

Yeah, is that just an American thing to? Women who think that they know FUCKING EVERYTHING. Like, they think they have the right to get pissed- not about something I did, but about something that they thought I thought. Like they have goddamn fucking mindreading powers or some shit. And you're just sitting there, and she's all pissed and you're SO FUCKING CONFUSED. Because it's like, "What? No. No, I never thought that."

And then she's like, "Bullshit. I saw you thinking it."

And you're just like, "?"

And there's no fucking way you can win, because the whole thing is fucking stupid, so you wind up apologizing and having no idea why. And then she's all like, "You don't even know why you're apologizing!" And you're just like, "I... WHAT IS GOING ON!?"

And I think that seriously is a woman thing to, because I'm bisexual, and guys don't really do that. They get pissed, they tell you why, and it's usually, if not something that makes sense, at least something that you can figure out and address.

Having dated both sexes, I have come to the conclusion that as a general rule, women are crazy, and men are stupid. Yes, there are stupid women and crazy men, but I haven't dated any of them. Women like... over-analyze stupid shit and men under-analyze important shit. But that's just my experience, that might not translate well into the rest of the world.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

*chuckle*



lol

 

[trysail]

you're being pc... i cannot resist...

http://www.nexttonothing.co/image/cache/data/tv-t-shirts/fawlty-towers-t-shirt-war-500x500.jpg

Oh, for god's sake. John Cleese's Basil Fawlty and Fawlty Towers may be one of the most overrated characters and programmes in history.

 

[rosco rathbone]

thankyou for your contribution.

the point dolf, myself, and a few other ladies here are attempting to make is that a guy can be quite capable of supporting a pregnant partner or a growing family without being rich, and that just because a richer man came along it doesn't mean the woman would leave her partner to be with the one with the bigger wallet.

It would make a good story. A world in which all women were the property of a small group of the uber rich.

 

[Johnny_Ray_Wilson]

So I'm ok?

Always.

I love how the "manly" men in here get to decide how women think. Interesting.

Yet in the parent thread to this discussion, it was about women deciding how men think.

Points taken. Men tend to get sidetracked when it comes to cars. This does not mean all of us are blind to everything else.


A lot of good posts in this thread.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You can restore the curves on your car when it gets old...





The wife you have to trade in and it costs you roughly half your stuff.

 

[dolf]

Females dont respect males, period.

your feeling this way is entirely understandable.

 

[ivantheterrible]

ahhhh for the days when society was maternalistic , it didn't matter who the baby's daddy was, men wandered for food and pillage, came home and hung out for awhile and wandered again.

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

it all depends.