Defining Love

One of my favorite threads 'Defining Love' is no longer active but the questions and interest remain. Recently I've noticed lots of threads describing relationship trouble, many wondering about the idea of being 'in love' and loving someone. So I thought I'd just openly steal the original thread's original post.



To begin: What is your definition of love?

What experiences helped shape your definition?

What have you read that helped form your definition?

Taking familial love as a given, what other forms of love can you identify?

What are the limits on loving? Can we love more than one person at a time (again, all outside the category of familial love)?

What freedom do we gain through love? What constraints do we take on through love?

What is the difference between being in love and loving someone?

Cate, I'll be back to answer these questions once I've had a chance to think about them.

In the meantime, I've included what I consider to be one of the most beautiful sonnets I've ever read: Shakespeare's Sonnet 116. Back in my teaching days, when I was introducing my students to definition essays, I would use this sonnet to illustrate the concept of definition. I particularly like the use of "definition by negation": telling what something IS by explaining what it ISN'T.

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixèd mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

Cathleen said:

One of my favorite threads 'Defining Love' is no longer active but the questions and interest remain. Recently I've noticed lots of threads describing relationship trouble, many wondering about the idea of being 'in love' and loving someone. So I thought I'd just openly steal the original thread's original post.



To begin: What is your definition of love?

What experiences helped shape your definition?

What have you read that helped form your definition?

Taking familial love as a given, what other forms of love can you identify?

What are the limits on loving? Can we love more than one person at a time (again, all outside the category of familial love)?

What freedom do we gain through love? What constraints do we take on through love?

What is the difference between being in love and loving someone?

Click to expand...

ah Cate...great revival

*have to get back to you...I'm supposed to be working still *

wicked woman said:

ah Cate...great revival

*have to get back to you...I'm supposed to be working still *

Click to expand...

You know how I love to think.... and he had a wonderful thread. I hope he won't mind....

Cathleen said:

You know how I love to think.... and he had a wonderful thread. I hope he won't mind....

Click to expand...

Trust me he'd be pleased...and I adore it when you think.

wicked woman said:

Trust me he'd be pleased...and I adore it when you think.

Click to expand...

As do I.

I am still in the process of waking up the rest of my brain cells. I will have to work on these questions one at a time.

Can you love more than one person at a time? I recently learned that I absolutely can. Unfortunately, because it caused a whole lot of angst (at least to me).

I think I need a shot of caffeine.

cathleen queried
what is your definition of love? what experiences helped shape your definition? what have you read that helped form your definition? taking familial love as a given, what other forms of love can you identify? what are the limits on loving? can we love more than one person at a time (again, all outside the category of familial love)? what freedom do we gain through love? what constraints do we take on through love? what is the difference between being in love and loving someone?

Click to expand...

superb questions, i think. my responses are almost entirely off the top of my head.

love is the desire to put another person's well-being and happiness above your own. i'm an agnostic but i too feel the resonant wisdom expressed in the paul's first epistle to the corinthians. and of course, shakespeare's brilliant sonnet doesn't exactly suck, either. :> i formed my notions about love somewhere between those 2 things and my own musing. beyond romantic love however, are larger categories: love of self, love for family and friends, love for our fellow person (IOW, compassion). love brings the freedom to dare all things, say all things, be all things but that very freedom is the double-edged sword upon which we all have so often impaled ourselves: that very freedom is itself a constraint IMHO.

the difference between loving and being in love is to my way of thinking definitional. after all, i love my wife and am in love w/ my wife. by contrast, while i love my parents, i am not in love with them. being in love is therefore romantic love alone. if you ask how these are different when speaking solely of romantic love however, i can merely scratch my head. i don't believe there is a difference.

ed

Cathleen said:

What is your definition of love?

Click to expand...

I'm not really sure how to describe it. It's where you find yourself thinking about that person just out of the blue on many different occasions throughout your day when you are not together. Where you can't imagine what things would be like without that person, and forget what everything was like before you met them. Where you can sit and just watch them sleep for hours on end. Where time gets away from you when you're together and you don't realize it.

I can't really put it into a distinct sentence, but I know those are just some of the things that I would put into the definition of love. There's a lot more that should go in there, but I don't want to ramble and stuff today.

Cathleen said:

What experiences helped shape your definition?

Click to expand...

Cathleen said:

What have you read that helped form your definition?

Click to expand...

Cathleen said:

Taking familial love as a given, what other forms of love can you identify?

Click to expand...

love with my boyfriend, love with friends, love with pets

Cathleen said:

What are the limits on loving? Can we love more than one person at a time (again, all outside the category of familial love)?

Click to expand...

Yes, we can. There are many different types of love. I can honestly say that I love at least 3 different people right now, just in different ways.

Cathleen said:

What freedom do we gain through love? What constraints do we take on through love?

Click to expand...

I don't know that there's a freedom gained, per se. I do see ourselves putting certain constraints on ourselves though. Those constraints include remaining faithful to our lover/SO, looking out for each other and trying to make each other happy, making sacrifices for other people. There are a lot of constraints in that respect, although I don't view it as being bad or a negative thing to have those constraints when you're in love, or love someone.

Cathleen said:

What is the difference between being in love and loving someone?

Click to expand...

I don't really know how to answer this one. I reserve the love word for certain people that I truly care about and are truly special like that. I can say that there is a difference between the love I have for my man and the love I have for some of my friends.

Cathleen
So glad to see this thread come back! It's been awhile!
How does one define love? I would have to say, it's accepting all of the other person for who they truly are, understanding their little "quirks" and embracing them. I thought I was in love with someone and stayed with them for almost 12 years. I realized after moving and learning about myself again that towards the end I was really in love with the thought of him loving me. I would say I truly loved him for the first 4 years, after that though, things became rote.
I am now with someone who I consider to be my best friend, confidant and great lover. I look back at the past, and while I have many fond memories, I can't remember a time I wasn't in love with the man I am with now. I am able to be myself with him, silly, serious, just me. I don't feel like I have to walk on egg shells and I can talk to him about anything.

The definition for love in my opinion, is different for each individual. I'm anxious to hear from others.

Thank you all for taking the time to express your thoughts. I hope we can all query together about love, in all its forms.

Already I have questions or curiosities for some of what I've read here and from other sources. I know it's a spansive topic and we truly can't define love to one particular thing (thank goodness) but I know I can learn more about myself by interacting with you all.

I don't consider this 'my thread', rather, l hope we will all discuss and inquire to one another about our thoughts and experiences.

Thanks for sharing.

shell seeker2 said:

Cathleen
So glad to see this thread come back! It's been awhile!
How does one define love? I would have to say, it's accepting all of the other person for who they truly are, understanding their little "quirks" and embracing them. I thought I was in love with someone and stayed with them for almost 12 years. I realized after moving and learning about myself again that towards the end I was really in love with the thought of him loving me. I would say I truly loved him for the first 4 years, after that though, things became rote.
I am now with someone who I consider to be my best friend, confidant and great lover. I look back at the past, and while I have many fond memories, I can't remember a time I wasn't in love with the man I am with now. I am able to be myself with him, silly, serious, just me. I don't feel like I have to walk on egg shells and I can talk to him about anything.

The definition for love in my opinion, is different for each individual. I'm anxious to hear from others.

Click to expand...

Shelly!! I'm very glad you found this... I missed the discussion we were all having so being a chatterbox....

I have a question (for you, anyone) about not being able to remember the feeling of love before the man you're with presently. Where do you think those feelings go in theory? Can you sort of 'conjure' them up if ever you wanted?

Willing and Unsure said:

<snip>


I don't know that there's a freedom gained, per se. I do see ourselves putting certain constraints on ourselves though. Those constraints include remaining faithful to our lover/SO, looking out for each other and trying to make each other happy, making sacrifices for other people. There are a lot of constraints in that respect, although I don't view it as being bad or a negative thing to have those constraints when you're in love, or love someone.

<snip>

Click to expand...

Thanks W&U (I want to change the unsure to sure ).

I really like how you express the idea of contraints and freedom. I had a thought about your view of turning the contraints into positives, that makes sense. It seems as though the overall effect is freedom.

silverwhisper said:

superb questions, i think. my responses are almost entirely off the top of my head.

love is the desire to put another person's well-being and happiness above your own. i'm an agnostic but i too feel the resonant wisdom expressed in the paul's first epistle to the corinthians. and of course, shakespeare's brilliant sonnet doesn't exactly suck, either. :> i formed my notions about love somewhere between those 2 things and my own musing. beyond romantic love however, are larger categories: love of self, love for family and friends, love for our fellow person (IOW, compassion). love brings the freedom to dare all things, say all things, be all things but that very freedom is the double-edged sword upon which we all have so often impaled ourselves: that very freedom is itself a constraint IMHO.

the difference between loving and being in love is to my way of thinking definitional. after all, i love my wife and am in love w/ my wife. by contrast, while i love my parents, i am not in love with them. being in love is therefore romantic love alone. if you ask how these are different when speaking solely of romantic love however, i can merely scratch my head. i don't believe there is a difference.

ed

Click to expand...

You have a good 'off the top of your head' Ed, thanks for sharing.

I wonder about that freedom - you say it is to dare all and say all. For me I find the closer I become to someone, (in a romantic relationship), the more difficult it is for me to ask the intimate questions/discussions. It's as though there is something to lose and I don't want to chance it.

I wonder if I'm like the one who impales myself with the freedom.

I see now how you and W&U are saying something very similar. I didn't think of it that way. Cool.

Cathleen said:

Shelly!! I'm very glad you found this... I missed the discussion we were all having so being a chatterbox....

I have a question (for you, anyone) about not being able to remember the feeling of love before the man you're with presently. Where do you think those feelings go in theory? Can you sort of 'conjure' them up if ever you wanted?

Click to expand...

I'm so glad I found this too! Was just looking around and there it was. I enjoyed our previous discussions and had hoped that there was some trace of that thread. So many wonderful thoughts were shared! In answer to your question though. Here I go!
In theory, I don't know where they would go. I don't think the way I feel could be conjured up. I haven't been so relaxed/content (not the words I'm trying to think of)or myself with anyone else. Did HE conjure these feelings up in me or was it something we developed over time? Now, by no means am I saying that we are a rose garden 24/7 however, a day doesn't go by when he doesn't kiss me good bye when he's leaving for work (I'm off in the summer and usually still sleeping), we always tell each other that, but it's not a worn out thing, or something I expect to hear from him. I think this "feeling" of love has to do with the appreciation we both feel towards each other of the acceptance of another. I hope that makes sense. I don't think that the feeling of love could be conjured up by one person alone. I think that it's the combination of two people that creates that feeling. What do you think?

Eilan said:

Cate, I'll be back to answer these questions once I've had a chance to think about them.

In the meantime, I've included what I consider to be one of the most beautiful sonnets I've ever read: Shakespeare's Sonnet 116. Back in my teaching days, when I was introducing my students to definition essays, I would use this sonnet to illustrate the concept of definition. I particularly like the use of "definition by negation": telling what something IS by explaining what it ISN'T.

Let me not to the marriage of true minds
Admit impediments. Love is not love
Which alters when it alteration finds,
Or bends with the remover to remove:
O no! it is an ever-fixèd mark
That looks on tempests and is never shaken;
It is the star to every wandering bark,
Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.
Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks
Within his bending sickle's compass come:
Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,
But bears it out even to the edge of doom.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.

Click to expand...

Smart teacher Elian - it is often easier to define what it isn't to get to what it is.

Share at your leisure and want.

shell seeker2 said:

I'm so glad I found this too! Was just looking around and there it was. I enjoyed our previous discussions and had hoped that there was some trace of that thread. So many wonderful thoughts were shared! In answer to your question though. Here I go!
In theory, I don't know where they would go. I don't think the way I feel could be conjured up. I haven't been so relaxed/content (not the words I'm trying to think of)or myself with anyone else. Did HE conjure these feelings up in me or was it something we developed over time? Now, by no means am I saying that we are a rose garden 24/7 however, a day doesn't go by when he doesn't kiss me good bye when he's leaving for work (I'm off in the summer and usually still sleeping), we always tell each other that, but it's not a worn out thing, or something I expect to hear from him. I think this "feeling" of love has to do with the appreciation we both feel towards each other of the acceptance of another. I hope that makes sense. I don't think that the feeling of love could be conjured up by one person alone. I think that it's the combination of two people that creates that feeling. What do you think?

Click to expand...

Actually I think I wasn't clear with my question. I'm wondering about the feelings of love you had with the previous man. I know feelings are energy and are absorbed in some way but... is it that the 'older love' is stored or something? How would that impact the love today?

Already I can tell I've set off a fire in my mind... I should have known better than this. lol

B]What are the limits on loving? Can we love more than one person at a time (again, all outside the category of familial love)?[/B]

I think that it is very possible to love more than one person at a time. I love many people both girl and guy friends for very different reasons. Anyone who has met some of my friends would definitely see that. However, as much as I love them and want them in my future, I may not necessarily want them to be my life partners.
What is the difference between being in love and loving someone?

Like I said above, I love many people for different reasons, I am in love and devoted to only one. Someone once told me that if there was a tidal wave and she was holding her husbands hand and her child's, she wouldn't second guess herself that she would hold on for dear life to her husband. When I first heard that I was astounded, however, (keep in mind I do not have children yet) that to me is the definition of being in love with someone. I love my man more than myself sometimes (I am rather lovable) and I would never give him up. What I mean by that is that if I need to make a sacrifice for his betterment, I would 99.9% of the time.

Cathleen said:

Actually I think I wasn't clear with my question. I'm wondering about the feelings of love you had with the previous man. I know feelings are energy and are absorbed in some way but... is it that the 'older love' is stored or something? How would that impact the love today?

Already I can tell I've set off a fire in my mind... I should have known better than this. lol

Click to expand...

The love I felt in the distant past was what I would consider destructive love in a sense. He did not love me, the way I had loved him. The experience of hurt I felt once I realized that didn't really phase me in a life altering he spun my life around and now I'm stuck in the mud way. Once I was able to distance myself from the situation I realized that I had given up way too much of myself. I gave him what I thought was all I had. I don't dislike him or hate him either. Even though he was happy when I asked him to leave (he didn't want to be the "bad guy"), he was the one who for over a year continued to try and contact me and reconcile. I think I took the energy I absorbed from that love and it helped me to 1) reconnect with myself. I had completely lost myself meaning I limited things I liked to do because he didn't like it, etc (he wasn't possessive). 2) It allowed me to rediscover what I wanted in a partner and more importantly what I didn't want.
The energy that was once there no longer is, but what is present is a stronger, happier me. Am I in the ball park here with what you're looking for?

Cathleen said:

Thanks W&U (I want to change the unsure to sure ).

I really like how you express the idea of contraints and freedom. I had a thought about your view of turning the contraints into positives, that makes sense. It seems as though the overall effect is freedom.

Click to expand...

I've had a lot of people tell me I should change it, but it still fits in a lot of ways.


As for the idea of constraints and freedoms, I agree, it is not always negative. I'm so much in love right now with someone and I actually do feel like I am a lot freer when it comes to a lot of things. A lot of the insecurities disappear and you do feel like there's nothing to hold you back like that. It's a great feeling overall. When I say there are constraints, there really are, but they are things that you are willing to abide by just because you want to, or feel that you should, if anything, just to make your partner happy.

I've noticed that when you are in love with someone, you do start to be less self-centered with your wants, needs, and desires. You also tend to try to do things to please your partner, and seeing their happiness is enough to make you happy and feel really great inside.

cathleen quoth
you have a good 'off the top of your head' ed, thanks for sharing.

Click to expand...

bah; i'm just a pretentious bastard: the long sentences are a cover for my painfully slow thought processes. :>

cathleen quoth
i wonder about that freedom - you say it is to dare all and say all. for me i find the closer i become to someone (in a romantic relationship), the more difficult it is for me to ask the intimate questions/discussions. it's as though there is something to lose and i don't want to chance it. i wonder if i'm like the one who impales myself with the freedom.

Click to expand...

as i said, i think we all impale ourselves on that freedom. the fear of risk is a very powerful one, i think. :>

cathleen quoth
i see now how you and W&U are saying something very similar. i didn't think of it that way. cool.

Click to expand...

nah; what's cool is that you posed the question. :> at the risk of sounding like a dimestore pundit, the things we discuss most are IMHO the things that matter to us most. :>

ed

Years ago I had an old guy tell me his definition of love,kind of comical.So I thought I would throw it out here.Love is an abcess in the brain that comes to a head in the penis.Years ago I began to think a lot along those lines.I would find a really hot piece of ass and I would think I was in love.Had love and lust confused.
I had several bad maraiges because of that.Then I finally found my one love of my life.There are many kinds of love.The love you have for a son or daughter,the kind of love you have for your spouse or significant other etc. and parents,pets and so on.So to put one definition on the word love for me is dificult.
As for love of your partner,spouse etc. I guess I would say that it is after several years of being together that you get that same giddy ,excited feeling in your gut when it is say getting close to quitting time at work because you been thinking of them all day and you cannot wait to get home to see them,talk to them.It is when bang out of the blue for no reason you suddenly think of them.Their smile,the cute little things they do and you think how very lucky you are to have them in your life and you think of ways to make them happy and try to make them have those special days.They feel like they are actually a part of you like you have been together forever but yet it feels as though you just met them also because that excitement is still there and you look at them even though you both have changed drastically ove rthe years and you still find them absolutely beautiful and you are thankful for them.

Cobra,
I enjoyed reading your last thought. I know exactly what you mean. You do go out of your way to make the other happy because you do think of them so often. I can't think of many things better than that.

CATE!
Its a wonderful thing...this thread. I'm sure if he's around & lurking...he'll enjoy...and maybe he'll even be inspired to post! I have a few thoughts to gather and I'll get back to you!

"You say that love is nonsense....I tell you it is no such thing. For weeks and months it is a steady physical pain, an ache about the heart, never leaving one, by night or by day; a long strain on one's nerves like toothache or rheumatism, not intolerable at any one instant, but exhausting by its steady drain on the strength."
Henry Brooks Adams (1838-1918),

Ricwilly said:

"You say that love is nonsense....I tell you it is no such thing. For weeks and months it is a steady physical pain, an ache about the heart, never leaving one, by night or by day; a long strain on one's nerves like toothache or rheumatism, not intolerable at any one instant, but exhausting by its steady drain on the strength."
Henry Brooks Adams (1838-1918),

Click to expand...

beautiful