2024 First Presidential Debate Thread: June 27th

[PaxNurgle]

Trump should be criticized. He sounded like an unhinged loon repeating the same lies, same grievances and same idiocy that he has for the past four years. Zero policy, zero ideas, zero substance.

He enunciated. We'll give him that.

Well the problem is, Trump was under no compulsion to tell the truth, and even answer any given question being asked of him.

Because it doesn't matter. His followers will swallow everything he says regardless of whether it is actually true or not; that partly explains why some of them still insist he rightfully won the election in 2020 (despite it being debunked so many times it's not even worth bringing up anymore.)

Biden was actually being honest, that is, when he could actually articulate what he was trying to say and not coming across like a senile old codger suffering from post-awareness confusions.

So, really the bottom line is this. I don't think, in the end, the debate really changed anyone's mind. Biden supporters are probably a lot more concerned about the mental health and fitness of their candidate but will vote for him anyway, because the alternative is STILL far, far worse. Trump supporters will still support him of course, because they automatically swallow his bullshit no matter how outlandish, and they now have some seemingly valid criticisms of Biden. Independaent voters probably think both are about the worst possible choice of candidates in history, and it is probably one or two issues- inflation under Biden, or potential loss of freedoms under a new Trump adminstration, that will sway them.

 

[Aglaopheme]

Oh, what is that you say?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1806821310229864659

 

[dmallord]

I haven’t audited the fact checkers or counted how many lies each candidate told so I won’t argue your point. In fact I’ll bolster it by suggesting that not all of Biden’s incorrect statements were deliberate lies. For example, when he said he decided to run for office after his son died in Iraq, I don’t think he deliberately intended for the audience to believe Beau died in Iraq. I think he was just confused. He had similar trouble remembering when his son died during his deposition.

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/b...ucker-during-presidential-debate-213855813801
Starting at 0:20 he says his son returned after service in Iraq around the burn pits for a year and came back and developed cancer. That's pretty clear he didn't indicate he died over there. Just to clarify your point.

Hur's report did state he was confused about the date of his son's death. Many of us lose track of dates even those that hurt.

 

[KeithD]

Because it doesn't matter. His followers will swallow everything he says regardless of whether it is actually true or not; that partly explains why some of them still insist he rightfully won the election in 2020 (despite it being debunked so many times it's not even worth bringing up anymore.)

Trump's problem is that he has to add voters. His base doesn't win it for him.

The longer he goes on trying to get black and Hispanic voters with his big, nasty mouth, the fewer of them he's going to be able to pull from Biden. ("Watch out, those raping wetbacks are going to take your janitorial jobs.")

So, it's independents. He has to keep them from weighing the options in terms of their own self-interest. We'll see about that.

 

[Aglaopheme]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1806783413829222566

 

[Lazaran]

Oh, what is that you say?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1806821310229864659

Reid gets it.

 

[adrina]

 

[DeluxAuto]

 

[dkovic77]

Funny how our resident Nazi hasn’t shared these poll/simulation results… wonder why not??

Poor Naziboobs.

 

[adrina]

View attachment 2360638

I shouldn't laugh but I can't help it.

 

[jomar]

il and I agree on very little but on this we do agree.........Biden is toast. He can't recover from this debacle. The debate was scheduled BEFORE the convention and there is some backroom shenanigans going on there and in time we'll find out. Be that as it may, approx 51 million viewers tuned in during the Summer doldrums. For most of them their political investment until after Labor Day is over. Biden, who was never a big crowd drawer, has zero chance to recover before the convention.

I think it was @adrina who mentioned goldfish memories. Biden can absolutely recover from his shitshow debate performance. Did you see his Raleigh rally the following day? He was vibrant and on point. Going forward, he can’t afford a public repeat of his debate appearance, but it’s easy to view that as a moment in time as opposed to that’s the true Biden, though FOX news is unsurprisingly pushing that spin. He’ll be inspiring at the RNC and the next debate, probably the most watched appearances-his team and he will make sure of it.

 

[KeithD]

Nothing can be more galling (good!) for Republican/Trumpers than to see how quickly folks can recover from a disastrous debate for Biden showing that he indeed is old and slipping. The problem, Republicans/Trumpers, is that you've picked a candidate who will cause a majority of Americans to vote for anyone but Trump. If you can stand behind a self-obsessed congenital liar, con man, racist, sexual assaulter, failed businessman, convicted felon, multiply-indicted criminal, pandemic and climate change denier, disloyal, and coup instigator asshole, others can stand by a decent, caring, experienced man who will need a lot of help getting a difficult job done--and will get the competent help from those who won't later refuse to endorse him.

 

[adrina]

Looks like the pundits are freaking out a hell of a lot more than the people.

 

[coati]

Looks like the pundits are freaking out a hell of a lot more than the people.

It ain't just the pundits. And this is about way more than just one debate performance.

Either Biden and the Democrats recognize Biden's heath status and get another moderate candidate or the party will split, much in the way that the GOP split. The boomers in the Democratic party are clinging to the past, ignoring what is taking place right now with the disaffected youth vote.

Adrina, you frequently talk about the need to get people to vote. This is a case in point. If the Democrats do not make an adjustment soon, they will regret it.

 

[adrina]

It ain't just the pundits. And this is about way more than just one debate performance.

Either Biden and the Democrats recognize Biden's heath status and get another moderate candidate or the party will split, much in the way that the GOP split. The boomers in the Democratic party are clinging to the past, ignoring what is taking place right now with the disaffected youth vote.

Adrina, you frequently talk about the need to get people to vote. This is a case in point. If the Democrats do not make an adjustment soon, they will regret it.

So who's the other choice? How are they going to get their hands on any campaign funds? Finance laws exist. What mechanism will be used? How quickly will it be invented? 129 days.

Practical logistical reality.

What people really do need to do is to stop freaking out. Yeah the debate sucked. Biden had a cold. And a stutter. And an off night. None of that changes his record as president.

We need to calm down, step back from the drama and pull together. I'm seeing a bigger freak out from the pundits than the people. Pro Biden sites comment sections are still fully pro Biden. Even videos and articles criticizing Biden are getting massive pushback.

Biden gave a hell of a speech today. Full of energy. Where was that Biden last night? Apparently with a head cold dealing with a freaking lunatic. It doesn't change what he's accomplished and what he can accomplish.

One thing I can absolutely guarantee, if the people who are freaking out don't calm down and get behind Joe Biden then Trump will be the next president. There is no scenario in which a switch will win the presidency. None.

 

[jomar]

Saw this on another site:

Heather Cox Richardson: The GISH GALLOP. It's a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs, and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut them in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don't know where to start grappling with the flood
that has just hit them.
It is a form of gaslighting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

 

[KeithD]

Either Biden and the Democrats recognize Biden's heath status and get another moderate candidate or the party will split, much in the way that the GOP split. The boomers in the Democratic party are clinging to the past, ignoring what is taking place right now with the disaffected youth vote.

Adrina, you frequently talk about the need to get people to vote. This is a case in point. If the Democrats do not make an adjustment soon, they will regret it.

You are calling on the Republicans to change to a candidate who is not a criminal and coup plotter? If not, why not?

 

[KeithD]

Saw this on another site:

Heather Cox Richardson: The GISH GALLOP. It's a rhetorical technique in which someone throws out a fast string of lies, non-sequiturs, and specious arguments, so many that it is impossible to fact-check or rebut them in the amount of time it took to say them. Trying to figure out how to respond makes the opponent look confused, because they don't know where to start grappling with the flood
that has just hit them.
It is a form of gaslighting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

This responds to the suggestion that the moderators should have fact checked. Pointing to frequently stated lies is possible in the venue they had, but new lies and lies piling on lies are beyond immediate debunking and avoiding becoming a partisan. This should really have been enough to ask Trump three times if he'd honor the vote results in face of him deflecting for the rational voter to hear all they needed to know about Trump and whether he should be kept around in American politics.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

It ain't just the pundits. And this is about way more than just one debate performance.

Either Biden and the Democrats recognize Biden's heath status and get another moderate candidate or the party will split, much in the way that the GOP split. The boomers in the Democratic party are clinging to the past, ignoring what is taking place right now with the disaffected youth vote.

Adrina, you frequently talk about the need to get people to vote. This is a case in point. If the Democrats do not make an adjustment soon, they will regret it.

The Democratic media outlets are split. NYT called on Biden to step down. Washington Post says think it through, don’t make a hasty decision. Obama and Clinton have both come out in support of Biden. The lack of an obvious alternative works in Biden’s favor.

 

[Aglaopheme]

I do not know a single Democrat that would call the NYT a Democratic media outlet.

 

[ll74]

This responds to the suggestion that the moderators should have fact checked. Pointing to frequently stated lies is possible in the venue they had, but new lies and lies piling on lies are beyond immediate debunking and avoiding becoming a partisan. This should really have been enough to ask Trump three times if he'd honor the vote results in face of him deflecting for the rational voter to hear all they needed to know about Trump and whether he should be kept around in American politics.

Biden should've fact checked. The moderators were fine. They aren't there to fact check...Tapper reasked the same question several times when 45 didn't answer.

 

[KeithD]

Biden should've fact checked. The moderators were fine. They aren't there to fact check...Tapper reasked the same question several times when 45 didn't answer.

I think the barrage of lies piled on lies pretty much explains how Biden got tongue-tied up. He did constantly say Trump was lying but couldn't quickly and glibly say how. At some point Republicans/Trumpers are going to how to do the work of acknowledgment of the unacceptability of Trump if this is going to happen. And apparently that's not going to happen. There's a much larger number of rotten Americans than was imagined before Trump showed up and renewed their boldness. (Yes, it's happened before. McCarthy, Wallace . . .)

 

[Aglaopheme]

Because they want to use it as a "nonpartisan" source. But what it's called matters less as it loses readers and credibility, like all of the corporate media giants.

No, that is not why.

 

[icanhelp1]

So who's the other choice? How are they going to get their hands on any campaign funds? Finance laws exist. What mechanism will be used? How quickly will it be invented? 129 days.

Practical logistical reality.

What people really do need to do is to stop freaking out. Yeah the debate sucked. Biden had a cold. And a stutter. And an off night. None of that changes his record as president.

We need to calm down, step back from the drama and pull together. I'm seeing a bigger freak out from the pundits than the people. Pro Biden sites comment sections are still fully pro Biden. Even videos and articles criticizing Biden are getting massive pushback.

Biden gave a hell of a speech today. Full of energy. Where was that Biden last night? Apparently with a head cold dealing with a freaking lunatic. It doesn't change what he's accomplished and what he can accomplish.

One thing I can absolutely guarantee, if the people who are freaking out don't calm down and get behind Joe Biden then Trump will be the next president. There is no scenario in which a switch will win the presidency. None.

There's an easy remedy. If Biden cares about the country, his party, he could take a good look at himself and just walk away. He could do what president Johnson did back when and tell the people he will not run for another term and will not accept the nomination. SIMPLE. Biden is pulling another democrat stunt similar to RBG, just too selfish to do what's best.

 

[adrina]

There's an easy remedy. If Biden cares about the country, his party, he could take a good look at himself and just walk away. He could do what president Johnson did back when and tell the people he will not run for another term and will not accept the nomination. SIMPLE. Biden is pulling another democrat stunt similar to RBG, just too selfish to do what's best.

Hi traitor!