2024 First Presidential Debate Thread: June 27th

[BabyBoomer50s]

Biden is pulling another democrat stunt similar to RBG, just too selfish to do what's best.

This belongs in the “Thanks Biden” thread.

 

[ll74]

I think the barrage of lies piled on lies pretty much explains how Biden got tongue-tied up. He did constantly say Trump was lying but couldn't quickly and glibly say how.

And he should have.

At some point Republicans/Trumpers are going to how to do the work of acknowledgment of the unacceptability of Trump if this is going to happen. And apparently that's not going to happen. There's a much larger number of rotten Americans than was imagined before Trump showed up and renewed their boldness. (Yes, it's happened before. McCarthy, Wallace . . .)

The voters decide. If you don't trust voters, that's another issue and one that would only be solved by education or stopping people from voting

 

[coati]

So who's the other choice? How are they going to get their hands on any campaign funds? Finance laws exist. What mechanism will be used? How quickly will it be invented? 129 days.

Practical logistical reality.

What people really do need to do is to stop freaking out. Yeah the debate sucked. Biden had a cold. And a stutter. And an off night. None of that changes his record as president.

We need to calm down, step back from the drama and pull together. I'm seeing a bigger freak out from the pundits than the people. Pro Biden sites comment sections are still fully pro Biden. Even videos and articles criticizing Biden are getting massive pushback.

Biden gave a hell of a speech today. Full of energy. Where was that Biden last night? Apparently with a head cold dealing with a freaking lunatic. It doesn't change what he's accomplished and what he can accomplish.

One thing I can absolutely guarantee, if the people who are freaking out don't calm down and get behind Joe Biden then Trump will be the next president. There is no scenario in which a switch will win the presidency. None.

The Democratic Party actually has mechanisms in place so that delegates can nominate whoever they want. This is how Kennedy was nominated at the 1960 convention. And, whoever is nominated inherits the funding and infrastructure of the Party. Granted, in this case a change would require Biden to voluntarily step aside, and it will be messy for a while, just as it was leading up to the Kennedy nomination.

When you recognize that you have a 15-amp fuse in a circuit tha has 18 amps of demand, you replace the fuse. To say that this is "freaking out" is not a fair assessment of the situation, nor is stating that there is "no scenario" in which changing the fuse will help the situation. Just sticking with the status quo is more risky than taking appropriate action. That's what is happening on the Democratic side. Our candidate has a significant health problem.

On the Republican side, instead of having a fuse in the fuse box, they have instead inserted a steel nut who will burn the house down as the circuit gets overloaded with domestic and international issues. Their candidate is the most dangerous in GOP history.

So, what are the younger generations doing? I can tell you this, most of them are not freaking out. They saw this coming long before the boomers did. They are too busy trying to survive to freak out about the latest boomer blunders. As Jimi Hendrix said, "Fall mountain fall, just don't fall on me." As in past generational transitions, their goddam elders just won't listen. Don't count on them to vote.

 

[Pad_Foot]

Biden should have dealt with just a single lie at a time, and then said, “Man, can you just lie on one thing at a time ?”

Alas.

He should have called in sick, and it would be worse now

Biden has to be the one to step aside like Johnson did. The Dems need to be ready.

 

[coati]

You are calling on the Republicans to change to a candidate who is not a criminal and coup plotter? If not, why not?

I am not a Republican, and I already know that they will not change their candidate.

I am trying to convince fellow Democrats not to make a similar mistake.

 

[coati]

The Democratic media outlets are split. NYT called on Biden to step down. Washington Post says think it through, don’t make a hasty decision. Obama and Clinton have both come out in support of Biden. The lack of an obvious alternative works in Biden’s favor.

BoomerBoy, I already know that's what the MAGAts want, and I already know that many Democrats are being timid here.

I want to get a healthy Democratic candidate. My opinion may prevail, or it might not. I just state it while I have the opportunity to do so.

 

[butters]

Don't count on them to vote.

if they don't vote, it's game over for their futures

the Biden administration will work to protect that, trump's won't.
it's that stark of a choice.

unless poll numbers start to show a single, strong candidate who could do better that Biden against trump in november i don't see anything about to change.
if they don't vote, that's on them because they'll hand this to trump who'll pull out of NATO, burn fossil fuels like there's no tomorrow (there won't be), make sure states control women's bodies, roll back gay rights, step away from Ukraine and be 'surprised' when putin invades Poland and so so much more. Do 'the youth' want these things? If not, they'd damned well better vote.

 

[Aglaopheme]

The Democratic Party actually has mechanisms in place so that delegates can nominate whoever they want. This is how Kennedy was nominated at the 1960 convention. And, whoever is nominated inherits the funding and infrastructure of the Party.

That is how it was done until 1972 when the party switched to primaries after what happened in Chicago in ‘68.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I am not a Republican, and I already know that they will not change their candidate.

I am trying to convince fellow Democrats not to make a similar mistake.

Running someone other than Joe Biden would be a huge mistake. Democrats often shoot themselves in the foot, but I don’t see them doing something that stupid.

 

[coati]

if they don't vote, it's game over for their futures

the Biden administration will work to protect that, trump's won't.
it's that stark of a choice.

unless poll numbers start to show a single, strong candidate who could do better that Biden against trump in november i don't see anything about to change.
if they don't vote, that's on them because they'll hand this to trump who'll pull out of NATO, burn fossil fuels like there's no tomorrow (there won't be), make sure states control women's bodies, roll back gay rights, step away from Ukraine and be 'surprised' when putin invades Poland and so so much more. Do 'the youth' want these things? If not, they'd damned well better vote.

It gets very difficult to convince them to vote when their only choices are a lunatic and a guy at death's door. I work with these younger people every day.

Give them a better choice. Don't double down on a candidate who is significantly impaired, like the Republicans are. Bring more hope to this situation instead of telling people to simply vote against the guy who is more impaired.

 

[KeithD]

Yes, Dems (and I) were hoping for a knockout punching of Trump in the debate. Biden failed miserably in this (which I noted on the boards before the debate was over). That's a setback. As long as the Republicans hold to a rotten candidate, though, it's not in and of itself a reason to drop someone who's doing just fine in the job, which will be a party-splitting, time churning bloodbath.

I'm not going to go too far in deciding what I think about replacing Biden/keeping Biden. I said years ago that he should be a transitional president and should open the doors to others by closing his door at the right time (not two years ago, because that would make him a lame duck, but sometime earlier this year), but that didn't happen. One reason for that is that he was put in a vice. I don't think he wants to be followed by Harris. He needed her demographic in 2020, but I don't think she's the one he'd choose to groom as his successor. (She'd be just fine with me.) If he had had someone he could have mentored without splitting the party, I think he might have and prevented where we are today. But he didn't have that luxury.

Replace him or not, but don't do so on the basis of Chicken Littling the "mixed" reveal on Biden's health. And it is mixed, because most of the time he's showing as more robust than I ever could, and I'm younger than both candidates and have led a "be sharp or maybe die" life.

Meet every Republican/Russian/Trumper propaganda jab about Biden's fitness with a reality check on Trump's fitness. Constantly take the wind out of their sails on this point.

 

[ll74]

Running someone other than Joe Biden would be a huge mistake. Democrats often shoot themselves in the foot, but I don’t see them doing something that stupid.

What is blatantly obvious from last night is that running Biden in the first place was a mistake. They should've made him a one term candidate and then hand picked his successor to continue their policies forward.

 

[ll74]

Replace him or not, but don't do so on the basis of Chicken Littling the "mixed" reveal on Biden's health. And it is mixed, because most of the time he's showing as more robust than I ever could, and I'm younger than both candidates and have led a "be sharp or maybe die" life.

Yes, because having a candidate very publicly showing that he may stroke out at any moment is good.

I need some of whatever drugs you guys are on. I'm absolutely used to MAGA telling me that the sky isn't blue....but cmon man.

 

[butters]

It gets very difficult to convince them to vote when their only choices are a lunatic and a guy at death's door. I work with these younger people every day.

Give them a better choice. Don't double down on a candidate who is significantly impaired, like the Republicans are. Bring more hope to this situation instead of telling people to simply vote against the guy who is more impaired.

i am fully in agreement that there should be a better choice for them
given that right now there's not; they need to hear reality: Biden isn't doing this alone. he's surrounded by people of all ages who keep him informed of how younger generations see/feel things. His policies to reduce educational cost, improve child care availability, improve wages, climate, environment, housing, mental health care, regular health care etc..., etc..., etc..., are ALL aimed at giving them a future they'll not have under trump. And should he fall by the wayside, Kamala Harris will take hold of the reins. I don't doubt for one minute that her choice of VP will come from the younger ranks of 30-50 year olds.

If they do what's good for their country, hand the Senate and House to the Biden administration, they can get so much better results than Biden has been able to produce so far... and he HAS done a lot despite all the blocking by republicans. It's in their hands.

 

[KeithD]

Yes, because having a candidate very publicly showing that he may stroke out at any moment is good.

I need some of whatever drugs you guys are on. I'm absolutely used to MAGA telling me that the sky isn't blue....but cmon man.

Donald Trump shows he may have a stroke at any moment. He's 78, he's obese, golf-cart golf is his only exercise, he inhales cheeseburgers, he's under tremendous stress, he has no at-home support, he's fighting a multipronged effort to put him in prison, he goes off on incoherent rants. There's no disadvantaged point on the "might have a stroke" issue.

 

[ll74]

i am fully in agreement that there should be a better choice for them
given that right now there's not; they need to hear reality: Biden isn't doing this alone. he's surrounded by people of all ages who keep him informed of how younger generations see/feel things. His policies to reduce educational cost, improve child care availability, improve wages, climate, environment, housing, mental health care, regular health care etc..., etc..., etc..., are ALL aimed at giving them a future they'll not have under trump. And should he fall by the wayside, Kamala Harris will take hold of the reins. I don't doubt for one minute that her choice of VP will come from the younger ranks of 30-50 year olds.

If they do what's good for their country, hand the Senate and House to the Biden administration, they can get so much better results than Biden has been able to produce so far... and he HAS done a lot despite all the blocking by republicans. It's in their hands.

The right is making threads literally asking "who is running this country" and this is telling them it's not Biden.

How much clearer do you need to understand that this is NOT going to gain anyone votes? It's just not.....it's the worst possible position you should be taking.

 

[ll74]

Donald Trump shows he may have a stroke at any moment. He's 78. he's obese, golf-cart golf is his only exercise, he inhales cheeseburgers, he's under tremendous stress, he goes off on incoherent rants. There's no disadvantaged point on that.

Deflection. Fuck off.

Own the fact that you support a guy who isn't fit for office. I have done so. I would prefer he not make it to office.

 

[butters]

The right is making threads literally asking "who is running this country" and this is telling them it's not Biden.

How much clearer do you need to understand that this is NOT going to gain anyone votes? It's just not.....it's the worst possible position you should be taking.

show me the polls that give ANY other potential candidate a lead over trump in november

 

[coati]

We

Running someone other than Joe Biden would be a huge mistake. Democrats often shoot themselves in the foot, but I don’t see them doing something that stupid.

We will probably just have to disagree on this.

In past elections, the Democrats would never stick with a candidate who had significant health issues affecting his ability to deal with rapidly increasing challenges. People closely associated with the White House have been expressing concerns for a long time, just as people associated with Trump's administration have expressed very serious concerns about his fitness for office.

Will the Democrats follow the Republican tact here? They might. Even though one Party is far more dangerous than the other, there is a lot of group-think taking place in both Parties.

In my work, rural and indigenous communities get screwed by federal decisions all the time. With Republican administrations, it is due to overt corporate corruption, and with Democratic administrations corporate exploitation happens in a more covert manner. It's just a little easier to sue Republican administrations because they tend to leave more evidence of corruption.

And people wonder why struggling younger adults tend to be cynical?

 

[ll74]

show me the polls that give ANY other potential candidate a lead over trump in november

Why is this your question? I'm at a loss here.

The pod save America crew said it best....it's easy to beat 45......he makes it easy. Throw random Democrat number 4 into the race.

 

[KeithD]

Deflection. Fuck off.

Own the fact that you support a guy who isn't fit for office. I have done so. I would prefer he not make it to office.

No, it's not deflection. It's reality.

And each time you tell me to fuck off I know you know you've lost a point.

Biden not only is fit for the office, he's doing the job--admirably, especially considering he's faced with a "just say no" House. Give him a majority in both houses of Congress and the power of whatever Supreme Court appointments are to be had, and watch what happens on citizen-support legislation.

Now, on the other hand, with Trump . . . Younger voters should give that a thought or two. And so should Chicken Little you.

 

[butters]

no president should be running a country 'on their own'. That's the hallmark of a despot.
no-one has the capacity, the knowledge, the character to do a good job for the people on their own.
Biden listens to advisors with their varying points of view before making decisions—some i agree with, some i don't.

trump listens ONLY to trump unless the arse-kissers are buttering him up enough and they agree with what he'd want anyway, and all his decisions are about what's best for him, not the country.

 

[butters]

Why is this your question? I'm at a loss here.

The pod save America crew said it best....it's easy to beat 45......he makes it easy. Throw random Democrat number 4 into the race.

because democrats aren't going to make the change to another candidate whilst polls show him as the only one capable of beating trump in november.

 

[ll74]

because democrats aren't going to make the change to another candidate whilst polls show him as the only one capable of beating trump in november.

Anyone can beat 45 at this point except Biden. He's literally the one candidate that is losing to him in every poll.

 

[butters]

Anyone can beat 45 at this point except Biden. He's literally the one candidate that is losing to him in every poll.

links, pls?