Schumer and the 2 state solution ELI5

[icanhelp1]

Another one for my “ignore list”.

It’s always uneducated, warmongering, right wingers, isn’t it?

If 1200 of your people were brutally murdered you’d have a different perspective on things.

 

[STrent]

What does your religion have to do with this? You are an anti semite. You are blaming the people of Israel because they (not me for sure) elected Bibi, and the arm carries out operations in order to eliminate HI. YOU STILL DON'T MENTION ISRAEL AND WHAT ISRAELIS HAVE SUFFERED. WHERE ARE OUR HOSTAGES, AND WHY ARE WE SUFFERING FROM ROCKETS AND ISRAELI CHILDREN ARE TRAUMATIZED, NOT BY ISRAELIS, AS GAZAN CHILDREN ARE BEING USED BY HAMAS-ISIS.

I think the entire world is getting fed up of Israelis or Israel supporters complaining about their suffering when their army has attacked a strip of land 25 miles long by 5 miles wide and literally carpet bombed civilians, cut off water supplies, blockaded them in, refused aid from getting in, managed to cut off their main aid agency’s funding (UNWRA) based on what now appear to be lies, together with bombing and destroying all medical facilities, using white phosphorous in heavily populated areas, snipers killing civilians, the list is so long and goes on, and on, and on…

Meanwhile over 30,000 have definitely died, over 70,000 are injured or maimed, over 80% of the housing stock and civilian architecture is again, destroyed, as all virtually all places of historic interest, all religious places of worship, the port, all farmland, and we’ve even had concrete and sewage put into the fresh water wells throughout Gaza.

This isn’t a scorched earth policy, it’s a complete destruction of every single facet of the things which support life.

And the world will not forget this, and I know that many will not forgive.

And this is all Israel’s doing - nobody made them use over 40,000 tonnes worth of 2000lb unguided bombs, never mind the rest of the munitions unleashed on Gaza.

And yet we are supposed to ignore all of this destruction, all of this suffering, all of this - for the 1200 Israelis killed on 7 October 2023, most of which according to Hareetz Newspaper in Israel - were actually killed by the IDF due to the Hannibal directive they operate under.

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/1/17/israel_october_7_investigations

And yet those of us calling for a ceasefire - we’re the extremists.

Shame on those pushing Israel into these awful actions.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

If 1200 of your people were brutally murdered you’d have a different perspective on things.

That doesn't justify killing thousands of innocent people does it? Women, children, disabled, men, or how about babies? You seem to have a special spot for babies.... Totals around 30,000 dead now, when does the Palestinian deaths make up for the 1200?

e. An Israeli general and his staff at one of the killing site told the world what he saw, *decapitated babies* wasn’t sufficient corroboration for him, wasn’t a reliable spokesperson but yet Reuter’s disinformation platform blamed an Israeli bombing strike killing 500 Palestinians followed up by the ministry of health parroting the same bile.

 

[ll74]

I think the entire world is getting fed up of Israelis or Israel supporters complaining about their suffering when their army has attacked a strip of land 25 miles long by 5 miles wide and literally carpet bombed civilians, cut off water supplies, blockaded them in, refused aid from getting in, managed to cut off their main aid agency’s funding (UNWRA) based on what now appear to be lies, together with bombing and destroying all medical facilities, using white phosphorous in heavily populated areas, snipers killing civilians, the list is so long and goes on, and on, and on…

Meanwhile over 30,000 have definitely died, over 70,000 are injured or maimed, over 80% of the housing stock and civilian architecture is again, destroyed, as all virtually all places of historic interest, all religious places of worship, the port, all farmland, and we’ve even had concrete and sewage put into the fresh water wells throughout Gaza.

This isn’t a scorched earth policy, it’s a complete destruction of every single facet of the things which support life.

And the world will not forget this, and I know that many will not forgive.

And this is all Israel’s doing - nobody made them use over 40,000 tonnes worth of 2000lb unguided bombs, never mind the rest of the munitions unleashed on Gaza.

And yet we are supposed to ignore all of this destruction, all of this suffering, all of this - for the 1200 Israelis killed on 7 October 2023, most of which according to Hareetz Newspaper in Israel - were actually killed by the IDF due to the Hannibal directive they operate under.

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/1/17/israel_october_7_investigations

And yet those of us calling for a ceasefire - we’re the extremists.

Shame on those pushing Israel into these awful actions.

Lol.... "I don't know how you can engage with them..."

Five seconds later..... ENGAGE!

 

[RobDownSouth]

I'm not sure a two state solution would be feasible, given Israel's propensity to thumb its nose at international law.
Under a two-state solution Palestinians would have the "right of passage" between Gaza and the West Bank, which would mean traversing via land across Israel.

I'm more in favor of complete autonomy for Gaza as a starter. It did my heart good this past weekend to watch close to a quarter million meals delivered to Gaza while the Israeli naval pirates and land genocide forces stood by seething in anger (Israel later took revenge by sacking Gaza's single working hospital on Sunday night, based on "fresh intelligence" *wink *wink *wink *nudge)

Statehood for Gaza would mean the end of the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza, which would deprive the Israeli economy of plunder at sea. Gaza could then trade with the outside world, without Israeli sanction or limitations. Gazans could even import rebar and concrete again for the first time since 2007, strengthening buildings against the next round of Israeli adventurism.

Let's not mince words here, Israel is due a reckoning for their conduct over the past six months. The same situation existed in Egyptian-Israeli relations until 1978, until President Carter bought off both sides with American cash. Sadly, this would appear to be the only way to calm Arab bloodlust against their Israeli oppressors.

Gazan peace could be further strengthened by denying Israel American subsidies in the even of Israeli initiated hostilities going forward. Israel has overplayed its hand, and forfeited its long-held role as "permanent victim" in the world. There is little to no remaining goodwill towards Israel after this most recent "splendid little war" and the time is right to make Israel pay financially for their genocidal activities.

One could easily make an argument to arm Gaza with American JDAM "Bunker Buster" bombs. A handful of these in Gazan control would make Israeli politicians think twice (or more!) to initiating another war to shore up flagging domestic political support.

 

[Bray123]

Total rubbish. Please educate yourself properly, go read a few history books, and see where you went wrong!!

Thank you for your in-depth analysis. I have read some history and for the sake of brevity used the phrase 'nation of Palestine' rather than write three pages of why there is no country currently recognised.

If there is no such place, why did Golda Meir possess a passport with 'Palestine' emblazoned on the cover? She brandished this on TV for all to see, to educate people us all.

The word 'Palestine' is a historic corruption of 'Philistine', which is mentioned in various ancient books. So yes, it exists and has aways existed even as a derogative.

You're welcome.

 

[STrent]

Thank you for your in-depth analysis. I have read some history and for the sake of brevity used the phrase 'nation of Palestine' rather than write three pages of why there is no country currently recognised.

If there is no such place, why did Golda Meir possess a passport with 'Palestine' emblazoned on the cover? She brandished this on TV for all to see, to educate people us all.

The word 'Palestine' is a historic corruption of 'Philistine', which is mentioned in various ancient books. So yes, it exists and has aways existed even as a derogative.

You're welcome.

There’s an element here of thinking we shouldn’t feed the Zionist bad faith actors on this forum and also a part of me that agrees with you, misinformation and outright lies need to be challenged.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

There can be no two state solution under the current circumstances.

Nevertheless, the White House is trying not to lose Michigan and Nevada over its Israel policy in November.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Nevertheless, the White House is trying not to lose Michigan and Nevada over its Israel policy in November.

Comprehensive banking sanctions against illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank announced yesterday should improve Biden's standing with Arabs in Michigan. Those warmongering militant settlers are suddenly majorly fucked.

 

[ll74]

Nevertheless, the White House is trying not to lose Michigan and Nevada over its Israel policy in November.

I've heard the perspective that Schumer's statements are meant to provide cover to the White House on the issue. I don't disagree.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

If 1200 of your people were brutally murdered you’d have a different perspective on things.

1,149 people have been killed in the USA from mass shootings since 1983 to 2023. I guess when that number reaches 1200 you'll start to change your perspective on it, right?

Edited:

In 2024 there have been more than 51 people killed already, so you've reached the 1200 people killed mark. I can assume you'll be showing your outrage now.

 

[Rightguide]

I'm not sure a two state solution would be feasible, given Israel's propensity to thumb its nose at international law.
Under a two-state solution Palestinians would have the "right of passage" between Gaza and the West Bank, which would mean traversing via land across Israel.

I'm more in favor of complete autonomy for Gaza as a starter. It did my heart good this past weekend to watch close to a quarter million meals delivered to Gaza while the Israeli naval pirates and land genocide forces stood by seething in anger (Israel later took revenge by sacking Gaza's single working hospital on Sunday night, based on "fresh intelligence" *wink *wink *wink *nudge)

Statehood for Gaza would mean the end of the Israeli naval blockade of Gaza, which would deprive the Israeli economy of plunder at sea. Gaza could then trade with the outside world, without Israeli sanction or limitations. Gazans could even import rebar and concrete again for the first time since 2007, strengthening buildings against the next round of Israeli adventurism.

Let's not mince words here, Israel is due a reckoning for their conduct over the past six months. The same situation existed in Egyptian-Israeli relations until 1978, until President Carter bought off both sides with American cash. Sadly, this would appear to be the only way to calm Arab bloodlust against their Israeli oppressors.

Gazan peace could be further strengthened by denying Israel American subsidies in the even of Israeli initiated hostilities going forward. Israel has overplayed its hand, and forfeited its long-held role as "permanent victim" in the world. There is little to no remaining goodwill towards Israel after this most recent "splendid little war" and the time is right to make Israel pay financially for their genocidal activities.

One could easily make an argument to arm Gaza with American JDAM "Bunker Buster" bombs. A handful of these in Gazan control would make Israeli politicians think twice (or more!) to initiating another war to shore up flagging domestic political support.

Rob and the Democrats are always looking for ways to arm terrorists.

 

[Rightguide]

Comprehensive banking sanctions against illegal Israeli settlers in the West Bank announced yesterday should improve Biden's standing with Arabs in Michigan. Those warmongering militant settlers are suddenly majorly fucked.

Yes, Joe needs the support of the anti-American terror base in Michigan commanded by Omar.

 

[STrent]

If 1200 of your people were brutally murdered you’d have a different perspective on things.

Humanity and compassion in my book is not limited to just people who speak and look like me.

And FYI, every life lost is a tragedy and we should do all we can to prevent them.

But last year, Israel had by 7 October 2023 killed over 250 Palestinians, most by the IDF and the rest by settlers.

The number displaced had also risen substantially with hundreds of thousands having been moved into Gaza over the years prior, due to the settler colonial movement in the West Bank.

In fact, if you decide the arbitrary number is 1200, you will see that Israel had, before 7 October 2023 killed over 5500 Palestinians between 2008 and 2018. The number of Israeli casualties? 251.

https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/



Now add the current casualties of over 31,000 Palestinians and 1200 Israelis, and you can see that Israel have killed nearly 32 times more Palestinians compared to Palestinians killing Israelis.

The injury figures, however, if you add the over 70,000 we currently know about, means Israel has injured or maimed nearly 100 times more Palestinians than the other way round.

Who exactly is the big danger to regional peace? Hamas/Palestine, under occupation by Israel, or Israel?

Clue: it’s not Hamas or Palestine!

 

[HisArpy]

You are totally mad!

Please understand that these types of people exist solely to push your hot buttons. Arguing with them is a waste of time because that's what they want you to do.

Instead, engage them only as a means of refining your facts and logical positions on current events as well as discovering other similar like minded individuals as yourself.

 

[STrent]

Please understand that these types of people exist solely to push your hot buttons. Arguing with them is a waste of time because that's what they want you to do.

Instead, engage them only as a means of refining your facts and logical positions on current events as well as discovering other similar like minded individuals as yourself.

That’s such a small minded view of the world.

Maybe we are arguing with you because we also feel strongly about the topic and are entitled to different viewpoints based on our experiences and knowledge?

I do find it insulting that those who are basically pro-genocide at this point are trying to condescend to those calling for peace, and a ceasefire.

Israel would improve its international standing if it opened the crossings, withdrew its forces, turned the water back on, and stopped settler violence in the West Bank and in fact removed the settlements - period.

Then we could get to a place where peace is possible between Israel and Palestine.

But Israel doesn’t want peace. It wants the land, and it wants the Palestinians out. So it marches onwards.

 

[HisArpy]

That’s such a small minded view of the world.

Maybe we are arguing with you because we also feel strongly about the topic and are entitled to different viewpoints based on our experiences and knowledge?

I do find it insulting that those who are basically pro-genocide at this point are trying to condescend to those calling for peace, and a ceasefire.

Israel would improve its international standing if it opened the crossings, withdrew its forces, turned the water back on, and stopped settler violence in the West Bank and in fact removed the settlements - period.

Then we could get to a place where peace is possible between Israel and Palestine.

But Israel doesn’t want peace. It wants the land, and it wants the Palestinians out. So it marches onwards.

You are entitled to your own views. You're not entitled to your own facts.

In most cases the ideas which progressives hold are akin to them creating a fantasy world where if they're cold they can wish for warmth and it will appear. This is fine in their fictional world but it doesn't work in reality.

Many of the arguments put forward here are of the same effect; you wish for what you get in your fantasies and then try to blame reality, and those who understand that this is reality and not your fantasy world, for the failure of that wish to manifest. You next act like children when called on it.

And then you throw a tantrum when the rest of us respond in kind where you promote violence and support the violent in order to try and use the threat of force to silence your detractors.

This is the world progressives have created and this is the world which is currently falling apart around them. And you still blame the rest of the world for your failings.

Just like a child.

 

[Pad_Foot]

Didn’t the UN used to sit between the two! Back when Begin and Arafat ran the “countries” Both had been terrorists. Ask the English

Begin and Sadat both killed but both knew there was a better way.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

You are entitled to your own views. You're not entitled to your own facts.

WTF do you know about "facts".

What's not to understand? It's just 2 molecules of a volatile carbon based organic bonded with an oxydizer and maintained at a temperature which keeps it in a liquid state.

Or don't you know that?

 

[HisArpy]

WTF do you know about "facts".

Still punking you after all these years.

 

[STrent]

You are entitled to your own views. You're not entitled to your own facts.

In most cases the ideas which progressives hold are akin to them creating a fantasy world where if they're cold they can wish for warmth and it will appear. This is fine in their fictional world but it doesn't work in reality.

Many of the arguments put forward here are of the same effect; you wish for what you get in your fantasies and then try to blame reality, and those who understand that this is reality and not your fantasy world, for the failure of that wish to manifest. You next act like children when called on it.

And then you throw a tantrum when the rest of us respond in kind where you promote violence and support the violent in order to try and use the threat of force to silence your detractors.

This is the world progressives have created and this is the world which is currently falling apart around them. And you still blame the rest of the world for your failings.

Just like a child.

Sorry, are you seriously arguing that I - constantly and consistently arguing that Israel and Hamas should have a ceasefire and that the killing should stop - is promoting and supporting violence?

Another bad faith actor on these threads. Why is it always the pro Israeli lot lying?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Still punking you after all these years.

Thanks for being the butt of all the jokes for all those years!!

 

[RobDownSouth]

Jared Kushner has a solution to the two state issue!

Simply relocate ALL Palestinians from Gaza to the Negev Desert in southern Israel
Then confiscate and develop the valuable waterfront property in Gaza!
Brilliant!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev


Gazans get to live!
Israelis get to profit!
Win-win....right?
Right?

 

[Rightguide]

And this is all Israel’s doing - nobody made them use over 40,000 tonnes worth of 2000lb unguided bombs, never mind the rest of the munitions unleashed on Gaza.

Sorry, are you seriously arguing that I - constantly and consistently arguing that Israel and Hamas should have a ceasefire and that the killing should stop - is promoting and supporting violence?

Another bad faith actor on these threads. Why is it always the pro Israeli lot lying?

Gazans voted for Hamas, Hamas is populated with Gazans, and 70 percent of Gazans supported the actions of Hamas on October 7th. So by and large is it a terror base.

 

[HisArpy]

Sorry, are you seriously arguing that I - constantly and consistently arguing that Israel and Hamas should have a ceasefire and that the killing should stop - is promoting and supporting violence?

Another bad faith actor on these threads. Why is it always the pro Israeli lot lying?

How about a yes on that.

You support a ceasefire where the bad guys will not stop killing. Which means YOU SUPPORT the ongoing murder of innocents. You do this under false pretenses, like EVERYTHING ELSE you go all in on, and then label those who point out your fecklessness as racist, phobic, or whatever new word of the day you make up o try and make it seem like you're victim when the reality is, you're the aggressor.

Basically you're a fuckwit who supports and condones violence in the most passive aggressive manner possible and then denies everything while claiming it's all Trump/conservatives/MAGA's fault that you were born an asshole and things went downhill from there.