Use of the "N" word

[JuanaSalsa]

Or a chat in the pub or on the train, within a few minutes of hearing the product of your imagination people will have a fair idea of who you are. It's not for no reason that people post their most intimate fantasies anonymously.

The reason for pseudonyms (and they are not just for erotica) is because some people can't differentiate between fantasy, rhetoric, and reality, and insist on believing stupid shit like "you are what you write."

I would suggest that "you are how you act" and what you say or write, or even think, has very little to do with it.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

I have used it several times, but they were in period pieces. Yet I still got some comments about using it by some of the WOKE readers, on a porn site.

I just wonder if they complain about the use of that word in the Interracial porn videos?

 

[SimonDoom]

I see. They're not racists, they're closet racists. You are what you eat. You are what you write. You are what you fantasize about.

I don't believe this at all. It's no more true than it is to say if you write about vampires you are a vampire.

People are complicated. It doesn't mean that they are "closet" anything. That's too simplistic and reductionist. I believe that to refuse to understand and to acknowledge the complexity of people and what they fantasize about is to fail to understand a key thing that lies at the heart of erotica, and lies beneath much fantasy and fiction generally.

Which isn't to say I necessarily would want to express all those fantasies and cross currents in my own fiction. I'm not sure I could use the N word, for example, in a way that wouldn't dampen whatever erotic effect I wanted. I'm not sure I'd need it or want it.

I think the concept of taboo words is somewhat silly, and we should have grown up beyond that by now. I hope in the future we get to a point where there are no taboo words. But it is what it is and that's not a fight I care to fight, so I don't.

 

[SimonDoom]

So, in an attempt to shock, let's say I use the N-word in that piece.

You seem to be implying that the fact I've used that word reflects some degree of racism within me, or at least some sort of desire to use that word frivolously. When, in fact, my use of that word in that context has been considered very carefully, and when it does not reflect my beliefs. In fact, I'm using it in a conscious effort to repudiate the use of that word.

Can you see that, perhaps, "you are what you write" might be a very facile way to look at a word as complicated as the N-word? Or, indeed, at other aspects of complicated stories?

Another example: A law professor uses the word in a class on freedom of speech, to discuss how we feel about what speech is obscene and how it should be regulated, if at all. Does one have a different feeling about the use of the word if the professor is black or white? There ARE examples of the word being used in classes this way, and there have been controversies over such uses. There's a legitimate pedagogical purpose, behind it, because these days there are very few truly shocking words, and that one's probably number 1. Using a word that is painful for some to hear may provoke a more meaningful discussion about speech. It also gets future lawyers used to the fact that like it or not when they handle real cases they will be dealing with unvarnished nastiness, and they have to get used to it, the way a doctor has to get used to the sight of blood.

But I agree the idea that "you are what you write" is not true. Agathie Christie was not a detective. She was not a closet detective. That's false psychology.

 

[AlexBailey]

The following are some scattered thoughts on the subject -


It can be very jarring, but it's all about context and intention.

I went to elementary school in Oakland CA when the N word was used much more openly and casually. I had an effeminate African-American third-grade teacher who used it when referring to some of the black students when they would misbehave - telling them not to act like little N-words. Whites were a minority at the school and I remember being very confused about how some students would use it among friends while others used it only when no blacks were around.

I got in serious trouble once when I saw a fight between two kids and joined in the schoolyard chant, "A fight, a fight! A N-word and a white!" That teacher yanked me into his classroom and smacked me repeatedly with a wooden ruler. He was furious at first and I was terrified, but he seemed to realize that he had crossed a line and quickly calmed down. We had a very frank and private talk about racism where he explained that it was used to try to "push others down" and that while no one should use the word, that it is also used by many black people to take control of it and take the power away from the word.

That was a formative moment for me. I liked that teacher and felt his conflict. He was also the first person I'd heard people openly calling a faggot. It's funny, I've always used slurs about gender and sexuality in a similar way that African-Americans might use the N-word - when I lived within a young lesbian and gay community a lot of us called each other fags and queers, but I remember a couple of older people being upset by those words, saying in effect that they had fought hard to get past it and it pained them to hear it now. I suspect it is very similar to the dynamic within the African-American community.

I lived in a very affluent, almost all white community in high school where we read Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn in class. It had been taught in school for many years but it was becoming controversial. At first I found it conflicting to hear the the white kids openly using the N word in class but it brought out valuable conversations - among them was the value of using the word in literature. The teacher brought out a copy of Huck Finn that had the N word removed. Compared to the original it seemed so contrived and almost disrespectful because it sort of whitewashed the story.

Taboo words have power and cultural significance because they are emotionally charged. I'm sure there are people who can get a thrill from the power of them - heck, I get inexplicably excited when a lover penetrates me, pulls my hair, and calls me a faggot, but I would never assume it would be good for anyone else. I've used "faggot" in stories where a hater was using it as an insult, but I would not feel comfortable writing it between lovers.

Remember the Mel Brooks movie Blazing Saddles? It was hilarious to me and many others when it came out - full of racial discrimination and language. I remember seeing it on broadcast television back in the 80's but I haven't seen it in a long while.

Times change. I think the most important thing is to not be a dick. You may have the best intentions but context is everything and it has different meaning to different people. I think you will upset and lose some audience if you use it, but some will understand where you're coming from. My main hesitancy would come from a fear that some people would take it as an endorsement of bigotry.

 

[Whanmore]

I gather there aren't a lot of black authors here. I certainly appreciate most everyone's initial trepidation in using the word. I feel the same way in some instances, despite my liberal use of the word in my daily life.

I've never used it in a straight up smut story. I'm of the opinion most interracial stories here, especially in Loving wives are racist trash and the sad thing is most aren't intending it that way, but the tropes and language and theme of them are offensive to me. I've explained this at length in the past won't bother doing t again other than to say the way I handle IR encounters is they're just two people having sex who happen to be of different ethnicities. I don't play it up as a kink.

But that's me and if people want to use it they have every right to, and sadly that's part of what drives a kink that's bass is somehow a white woman with a black man is still taboo, wrong, and trashy, again, personal opinion, have at it, I don't need to read it, but will never tell anyone what not to write.

In my serious novels I have used it, both as two black men referring to each other that way because for a reason that eludes me, they do and they think its cool. I also use it as an insult slur coming from characters I have created to be unlikeable asshats, and that type uses sexist, racist and phobic language, and I think for many it makes their ultimate demise more enjoyable. I don't over use it, I did a search on a 450 (print pages) I published a couple years ago) and it was used three times, but there were also a couple of other ones that start with S and C, that added another 6 so 9 times in 450 pages 156k words. Everything in moderation and anything loses punch when used constantly, and I write using my personal boundaries as a measuring stick and over use would make me feel uncomfortable because at that point its shock value only

I don't use it to get people going, I do it because I believe in realism and in real life there are ignorant people I will not sanitize my realism for the sake of politically correct snowflakes who want to censor and remove freedom of speech. Go see Keith D's thread "Its getting serious" because that is exactly where caving to the professionally offended leads.

I quite agree that many of the IR themed stories are clearly written by white people with very ... we'll call it limited views on what an interaction with a black person would look like. The Idea of a kink is offensive for sure but that can be true for any situation. It doesn't necessarily have to be. Foe instance being attracted to a black person could be a kin to having an affinity for blondes or big-breasts. Its how its written that makes all the difference. Of course use f the N word can certainly exacerbate the former of the situations.

As far as my use in my writing. I certainly use it occasionally. I would say as much as Necessary. So not much. I've never written a story about a racist or with racist characters. (I live in Indiana so that'd be more of a true experience lol) But I definitely have IR dating in my stories.

Most all my black characters will say the N word at some point I'd imagine. My stories are based off my experiences and most places I go are predominately white (college, work, school, earth) so I'm frequently the representative of black males in my social group and feel compelled to code switch so as to be more accepted. This obviously leads to a less frequent use of the N word even in most casual settings. But it will slip out around white people if I feel comfortable enough around them. I general rule of thumb...If a black a friend uses the N word around you and your are white they probably at least hold some amount of respect/trust for you lol (again not always)

I know One story That I have written but not yet published on this site had My character, a black guy in a room with three other white people (2 girls and a guy) is rapping along to a Lil Wayne song as it comes on. However for the purposes of the story, the quoted lyrics served to Identifying the song rather than saying anything in particular about the character. The casual use of the N word reflects the casual use of the word in hip-hop culture.

Ironically, or maybe not so ironic...One of my more favorite stories on the site is TCCS by Stormbringer. LoveCraft this I believe is more of what we are talking about. Where a lot of the dialogue involving the black characters is so offensive that its comical. I usually end up glossing over their dialogue and insert my own more imaginative words. However I enjoy stories where A lot of different people fuck a lot of different people and have to deal with the fall out. This serves that niche and I also enjoy reading the inner dialogue of White women who had never been with a black guy before because I have been that person for a number of white women. I could do without the overt racism and over use of the hard "er" in his stories.

And most people wouldn't say I'm the "thug" looking stereotype of black guy but around black people, family and friends the N word flows like elixir but that's a thing that would never happen around certain types because its for us to understand. I'm not sure that was always clear just felt like I wanted to say something from a black authors perspective. That was a lot lol. I hope you read my stories. I really hope you like my stories. I can't wait to read yours!

 

[Djmac1031]

As a white person, I wouldn't feel comfortable using it no matter what the context.

If black people care to use it, that's their choice.

 

[lovecraft68]

I gather there aren't a lot of black authors here. I certainly appreciate most everyone's initial trepidation in using the word. I feel the same way in some instances, despite my liberal use of the word in my daily life.


I quite agree that many of the IR themed stories are clearly written by white people with very ... we'll call it limited views on what an interaction with a black person would look like. The Idea of a kink is offensive for sure but that can be true for any situation. It doesn't necessarily have to be. Foe instance being attracted to a black person could be a kin to having an affinity for blondes or big-breasts. Its how its written that makes all the difference. Of course use f the N word can certainly exacerbate the former of the situations.

As far as my use in my writing. I certainly use it occasionally. I would say as much as Necessary. So not much. I've never written a story about a racist or with racist characters. (I live in Indiana so that'd be more of a true experience lol) But I definitely have IR dating in my stories.

Most all my black characters will say the N word at some point I'd imagine. My stories are based off my experiences and most places I go are predominately white (college, work, school, earth) so I'm frequently the representative of black males in my social group and feel compelled to code switch so as to be more accepted. This obviously leads to a less frequent use of the N word even in most casual settings. But it will slip out around white people if I feel comfortable enough around them. I general rule of thumb...If a black a friend uses the N word around you and your are white they probably at least hold some amount of respect/trust for you lol (again not always)

I know One story That I have written but not yet published on this site had My character, a black guy in a room with three other white people (2 girls and a guy) is rapping along to a Lil Wayne song as it comes on. However for the purposes of the story, the quoted lyrics served to Identifying the song rather than saying anything in particular about the character. The casual use of the N word reflects the casual use of the word in hip-hop culture.

Ironically, or maybe not so ironic...One of my more favorite stories on the site is TCCS by Stormbringer. LoveCraft this I believe is more of what we are talking about. Where a lot of the dialogue involving the black characters is so offensive that its comical. I usually end up glossing over their dialogue and insert my own more imaginative words. However I enjoy stories where A lot of different people fuck a lot of different people and have to deal with the fall out. This serves that niche and I also enjoy reading the inner dialogue of White women who had never been with a black guy before because I have been that person for a number of white women. I could do without the overt racism and over use of the hard "er" in his stories.

And most people wouldn't say I'm they "thug" looking stereotype of black guy but around black people, family and friends the flows like elixir but that's a thing that would never happen around certain types because its for us to understand. I'm not sure that was always clear just felt like I wanted to say something from a black authors perspective. That was a lot lol. I hope you read my stories. I really hope you like my stories. I can't wait to read yours!

If you want offensive check out Samuel X he's so bad he's in a class of his own. 3k stories here and not one H, think his average score is 3.
Everything in moderation, but the sad thing to me is that the draw to IR stories is that its some type of sleazy taboo, either directly with all manner of demeaning language and trashy scenarios. Or, the whole cuck thing where its shown as more humiliating to the husband if the bull is black, and again, that's a negative connotation on both the black man, the wife, and of course the white man is not a man hence his wife has to go for the "BBC" so its racist and degrading in that sense too which is why the handful of Loving wives stories I have involve no IR, I won't fee that crap.

In visual porn I enjoy IR for the simple reason its a sexy contrast to see darker on lighter skin regardless of the "pairing" but if at some point the ignorant stuff I described shows up in the dialogue its a click off. I have a thing for women from India or the middle east who have darker skin tones, always have. So of course I married a red head Sicilian who's whiter than I am...heh.

As for the last part of your post, its not hard to understand, its a cultural thing, and in a sense its not much different than when I'm alone with longtime friends we all bust balls and say much cruder things than I would ever say in mixed company or around people I don't know that well.

I think like many things its not really as complicated as we make it. There was a thread not long ago about the saying "stay in your lane" and the angle that's an offensive thing to say, but it does have some merit. I can write from any perspective, but if its something I have little experience with my style is in a lot of ways to be vague as fuck and not prove myself an idiot.

 

[Lovecraft_Lore]

There are the white people who never use it because they never have black people in their stories to start with. Like claiming there is no racism in the Dukes of Hazard because there are no Black people at all.

Then there are the BBC fedish types, that use it but the Black person is just there as a big dick.

I stay away from the loving wives stories.

I have not used it as I don't have any I story reasons for any of the characters to call others slurs.

If I ever do get around to writing "A very Samuel X Christmas" I might include it.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

It’s a word. It’s an ugly word, an offensive word. But it’s just a word, not an incantation or demon-summoning spell. I don’t like it, haven’t as yet been required to use it and am happy about that. Were I however writing a historical novel set in the time of Lincoln pushing for the 13th Amendment or during the civil rights marches of the 60s, I don’t see how it could be avoided. Like explosives or nitric acid, I would have to think first and use it with caution.

 

[Comshaw]

How do you feel about the use of the "N" word in stories. Especially in interracial? Might give a sort of realism for the time or place. The use of the term "African American" might sound strange in 1960 Mississippi.

I've thought much about that, the reason being is I have a concept for a story (actually a book) set right after the civil war. After much thought I've decided to use all the vernacular used in that time period and to include a preface explanation as to why I insist on using it. To do other, to try to skip around it, ignores the facts of history. While modern society finds many of the terms used then to be offensive, to try to ignore or tweak history to fit what we believe it was does us a disservice. While those terms used back then should never be used loosely and without thought, they also should never be forgotten. As said by sharper minds than mine, to ignore history, to forget it, is an invitation to repeat it.

Comshaw

 

[lovecraft68]

I've thought much about that, the reason being is I have a concept for a story (actually a book) set right after the civil war. After much thought I've decided to use all the vernacular used in that time period and to include a preface explanation as to why I insist on using it. To do other, to try to skip around it, ignores the facts of history. While modern society finds many of the terms used then to be offensive, to try to ignore or tweak history to fit what we believe it was does us a disservice. While those terms used back then should never be used loosely and without thought, they also should never be forgotten. As said by sharper minds than mine, to ignore history, to forget it, is an invitation to repeat it.

Comshaw

To each their own, but I think a disclaimer for something like that sounds apologetic. Its also not going to help, because the second one of outraged reads those terms will be in the story you're going to get the bomb and a comment calling you a racist anyway. As for history, the media has been rewriting it for several years now.

 

[Comshaw]

To each their own, but I think a disclaimer for something like that sounds apologetic. Its also not going to help, because the second one of outraged reads those terms will be in the story you're going to get the bomb and a comment calling you a racist anyway. As for history, the media has been rewriting it for several years now.

In essence, a preface like that is apologetic, as it should be. It's also explanatory as to why I use such reviled terms. To be clear, they are also repulsive to me. I find I have a hard time putting them down in writing, much less saying them. The reason is when I mentally put myself in a black person's skin, and think of where those names and labels came from, how they were used and why, I can feel the anger building in me. If it's that way for me just doing a mental exercise, how is it for a real black person facing it?

One of my guiding principles, taught to me by the men I worked with as a kid (loggers) is exemplified in a quote from a movie, " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." (The Shootist) Using words and terms meant to insult, demean or denigrate is part of that. I am not perfect at it, but I try very hard not to do to others what I insist they not do to me.

For those who have closed minds, such a myopic view of the world that they can't read and understand my reasoning, I'll neither try to explain in simpler terms, nor allow it to trouble my sleep. There will always be those kinds of people, from all points of the political compass. As for the media rewriting history, they may try, but it doesn't mean I have to buy into it or assist in that endeavor.

Comshaw

 

[XerXesXu]

But I agree the idea that "you are what you write" is not true. Agathie Christie was not a detective. She was not a closet detective. That's false psychology.

Wrong again. You make my point. You are what you write. Agatha Christy was the embodiment of 'cosy', and she wrote 'cosy'.

 

[KeithD]

Wrong again. You make my point. You are what you write. Agatha Christy was the embodiment of 'cosy', and she wrote 'cosy'.

I don't agree with your assertion in the least, and your example shows your weakness. Agatha Christie had a brilliant mind for plot and a great grasp of setting. She didn't write cozies. Cozy writers later channeled her to the extent they could to ride a successful wagon, but they came later and that's not what she wrote. Fiction and those who write it aren't limited by your limited vision.

 

[XerXesXu]

I don't agree with your assertion in the least, and your example shows your weakness. Agatha Christie had a brilliant mind for plot and a great grasp of setting. She didn't write cozies. Cozy writers later channeled her to the extent they could to ride a successful wagon, but they came later and that's not what she wrote. Fiction and those who write it aren't limited by your limited vision.

Shrug. I don't care whether you agree or not. You're hardly an authority on anything. She wrote the epitome of cosies.

 

[KeithD]

Shrug. I don't care whether you agree or not. You're hardly an authority on anything. She wrote the epitome of cosies.

Christie most certainly was not the classic detective she created.

I laughed at the "authority" comment. You couldn't spell either the author's name or the genre correctly.

That said, I'm quite sure I'm more of an authority on mystery writing than you are.

 

[lovecraft68]

In essence, a preface like that is apologetic, as it should be. It's also explanatory as to why I use such reviled terms. To be clear, they are also repulsive to me. I find I have a hard time putting them down in writing, much less saying them. The reason is when I mentally put myself in a black person's skin, and think of where those names and labels came from, how they were used and why, I can feel the anger building in me. If it's that way for me just doing a mental exercise, how is it for a real black person facing it?

One of my guiding principles, taught to me by the men I worked with as a kid (loggers) is exemplified in a quote from a movie, " I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." (The Shootist) Using words and terms meant to insult, demean or denigrate is part of that. I am not perfect at it, but I try very hard not to do to others what I insist they not do to me.

For those who have closed minds, such a myopic view of the world that they can't read and understand my reasoning, I'll neither try to explain in simpler terms, nor allow it to trouble my sleep. There will always be those kinds of people, from all points of the political compass. As for the media rewriting history, they may try, but it doesn't mean I have to buy into it or assist in that endeavor.

Comshaw

I'm with you in the sense I don't use those terms, I also don't like referring to a woman as a cunt, but have characters that use it. IN a sense its like the N word, I have female characters who call each other that word very casually and almost as a compliment, but also have men using it to refer to women in the derogatory sense.

Myopic is today's view and it works both ways 50% of this country spews hate about the other 50% spewing hate. Whatever you do, you're one of 'them' with them depending on what side of the lunatic asylum known as politics you sit on.

People used to understand we're not our characters, we are creating those personas to tell a story. No one understand anything now except their urge to be self righteous and judge someone. I believe in writing to true life and in life shitheads use shithead language, that doesn't make me that type of shithead, but if people want to think that, its fine. Unlike a way to large percentage of society, I don't care about the court of public opinion. What I know is most people squealing are guilty of something and its a matter of time before they slip up and get eaten by their own torch wielding mob.

As I said before, I won' sanitize and have no need to explain myself to a reader. Read it or don't, like me or don't and feel free to call me names, and make assumptions about me, somehow I'll sleep tonight.

 

[lovecraft68]

Wrong again. You make my point. You are what you write. Agatha Christy was the embodiment of 'cosy', and she wrote 'cosy'.

So you're a Bar Girl? A Sex Tourist and a TA named Bethany? Hard to see that based on the picture in your bio.

Cool try though.

I wrote a story from the perspective of a black female domme from the rural south. Amazing, that I never knew that's what I must really be under this white male East coast dwelling persona

 

[XerXesXu]

Christie most certainly was not the classic detective she created.

I laughed at the "authority" comment. You couldn't spell either the author's name or the genre correctly.

That said, I'm quite sure I'm more of an authority on mystery writing than you are.

I thought I got you spot on. The arrogance, the drizzling disdain, the childlike appeal for authority. After all, you are what you write. Thank you for reminding me also of your mangled grammar and the unintelligible sentences you frequently post. I'll make a point of using those as well, next time.

You appear even to be incapable of following a simple conversation. SimonDoom posits right-on progressive virtue signallers who obtain sexual gratification from degrading portrayals of black people and for whom racial stereotyping adds 'sizzle' to their fantasies. He says they're not racists because it's a fantasy. I say they're closet racists. You are what you write and you are what you fantasise about. Agatha was a nice person, a little post-colonial at times, but everyone was in those days. It is a question about what your writing and your fantasies reveal about your personality, not your job.

 

[XerXesXu]

So you're a Bar Girl? A Sex Tourist and a TA named Bethany? Hard to see that based on the picture in your bio.

Cool try though.

I wrote a story from the perspective of a black female domme from the rural south. Amazing, that I never knew that's what I must really be under this white male East coast dwelling persona

I refer you to my response to KeithD. You can omit the pot of piss in the first paragraph, that's intended for KeithD only. But the second paragraph should deserve your attention.

 

[Voboy]

Wow. This got even worse...

Arrogance is not in short supply, it seems.

I hope the OP got his/her question answered. I'd say the answer is "strongly."

 

[KeithD]

I thought I got you spot on. The arrogance, the drizzling disdain, the childlike appeal for authority. After all, you are what you write. Thank you for reminding me also of your mangled grammar and the unintelligible sentences you frequently post. I'll make a point of using those as well, next time.

You appear even to be incapable of following a simple conversation. SimonDoom posits right-on progressive virtue signallers who obtain sexual gratification from degrading portrayals of black people and for whom racial stereotyping adds 'sizzle' to their fantasies. He says they're not racists because it's a fantasy. I say they're closet racists. You are what you write and you are what you fantasise about. Agatha was a nice person, a little post-colonial at times, but everyone was in those days. It is a question about what your writing and your fantasies reveal about your personality, not your job.

You seem a little upset.

 

[XerXesXu]

You seem a little upset.

I'm enjoying this. I've done it professionally.

 

[KeithD]

I'm enjoying this. I've done it professionally.

Been an ass professionally. That I believe.