Consent contradiction

[VladPuptin]

Doms,

Have you ever been with a new sub and you're hashing out the details of what each other likes or wants. But they become - I'm not sure if impatient or indecisive - but demand you make a decision as the dom, only to be criticized later for doing it? It's like the whole girlfriend picking a restaurant thing. Thoughts. Answers?

 

[Acktion]

Ayup. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard, "oh, wait. I'm not into that."

It's not uncommon for a submissive freshly experiencing something new for the first time to not really know their own limits. And to assume that just because the Dom they chose was practiced with ten or twenty or fifty or a hundred submissives, they would automatically know this one before them to know what they didn't. To get impatient to move past the talking to the doing.

So, she's a self-proclaimed masochist who enjoys a good spanking... Ok. So, I should reach for the chain flail right now and etch the marks of my ownership in her flesh with no more than that to go on? Oh, so now she doesn't like blood. Okeydoke, then. I'll just use the ratan sword to give her a "corgi butt" with magnificent bruises. Okay, so now it's no bruises and no blood. And it's my fault, somehow, for not looking at her ass and reading her mind, because she damn sure wasn't saying anything other than "I'm a masochist who enjoys being spanked."

Although more often than not, wending my way through the on-line jungle for the first time, where all I had was the specific spoken words with no non-verbal cues that I had relied so much on, I would run up against one that would repeal consent, clearly and concisely, and then criticize me for not ignoring and going ahead against their clearly stated repeal of consent. For thinking of them as a person before a submissive and respecting them as such.

Nope. I don't work like that unless there is a clearly contracted CNC scenario with a clearly specified safe-word to use in lieu of "no" with a clearly specified beginning and end. In writing when possible. I guess there are plenty of others willing to. But, I don't. I won't. Unlike, apparently, others, I approached the whole on-line debacle under rules of engagement learned in the off-line world rather than as a fantasy film.

It's enough for some, but not for me. When I own her, truly own her, I own her tears and fears just as surely as her cum and pleasure. I am her safe place rather than what she has to seek safety and comfort from. And there are no shortcuts to that sort of primal knowledge of the jungle inside her as opposed to the jungles that were previously my habitat, no way to get past all the time and effort that is required to build a stable breeding bench to our exact specifications and measurements as a couple. And we don't play until I say. And I won't say until and unless she gives me what I need to feel she will be safe moving ahead. No matter how it embarrasses her to talk it out in every detailed nuance.

***shrug***

Fortunately, it is not my problem anymore. Only one gets the gift of my Dominance, of my time and consideration. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, I'm about as into BDSM as I am crotcheting merkins for cats other than when the odd thread captures my eye. And even there, my interest is hypothetical only anymore and possibly jaundiced by too many of the wrong experiences. So, take it with a grain of salt and don't believe a damn thing you read on the internet until and unless you confirm it through ten other sources. The actions one shows are always going to be a better indicator than empty words on a screen.

 

[cookiecat]

Doms,

Have you ever been with a new sub and you're hashing out the details of what each other likes or wants. But they become - I'm not sure if impatient or indecisive - but demand you make a decision as the dom, only to be criticized later for doing it? It's like the whole girlfriend picking a restaurant thing. Thoughts. Answers?

Isn't this just part of the process?

If you're with someone who's bugging the shit out of you because she keeps pulling this cliche of "picking a restaurant thing" then find someone else.

Geez.

What's with everyone here these days?

As a new sub, it's hard to know stuff. It's been a while since I've been new but -- I recall fantasizing about stuff. I wanted things I read about or saw online. I wasn't quite sure how to ask for it. Sometimes I DID want the Dom / Top to tell me what I wanted!! I didn't know how to negotiate.

Honestly though - if you're with someone who's criticizing you, take your cock or her panties or your fingers, stick in her mouth and tell her to shut the fuck up until she can talk to you respectfully.

Or, you know, stop the scene and sit down and talk about it. How criticizing isn't respectful. If she doesn't like what you're doing, that's fine. It can stop. As will everything else until she can figure out how to use her words in a respectful manner.

Teach her how to be a sub.

Or not.

How did you handle it?

Oh wait. LOL. I'm a sub.

 

[kiwi_submissive]

It could have anything to do with a number of reasons. These may include but are not limited to

They are new and don't know enough to be able to negotiate properly. After all you don't know what you don't know. I remember when I was new and was negotiating with someone I said that I was into electroplay without understanding how many different facets there were to it and getting annoyed with him because he wanted more information such as what types I was into it.

Are you negotiating too close to doing a scene? I find it best to negotiate much earlier rather than going straight into a scene after negotiation, everyone wants to get to the sexy fun times but having a handbrake of being sensible especially if you are in sub frenzy is a good thing. This also gives them time to really think things over and make sure there are no issues with communication.

The may be caught up in the fantasy that a "twue" Dom knows and understands their every need and that saying that they don't like something either during negotiation or during a scene is topping from the bottom. You need to make them feel comfortable enough to say hey can we pause for a minute and talk about what they are feeling or maybe even take time to stop during a scene and check in with them. Some subs hate using safe words as it makes them feel like a failure so I recommend not just relying on safewords with someone new that you are playing with.

Did you bring something new into the play that was not discussed? Was their assumption that they would be partially clothed but they somehow ended up naked?

Did you fail take into account their experience level and go further than what you should have especially for a new play partner? There is a huge difference between asking to be beaten until you are a sobbing mess on the flood and actually being beaten until you are a sobbing mess on the floor.

They could have subdrop or are feeling morning after regret and are shamed that they enjoyed what they did. Were they drunk, high or otherwise impaired when you negotiated and played?

Long story short is there are so many things that could cause it that it is impossible to answer.

One important fact that many people seem to forget is that negotiation is to keep you safe as well as the sub. If you do not feel comfortable with their answers then don't play with them. It's much better to say sorry I don't feel comfortable playing with you than violating their consent or dealing with consent allegations.

 

[edontario559]

It's hard enough to find someone that you are compatible with...

Then add BDSM to the mix...

...then add "the kind of BDSM that I like?"

Yeah, it's not easy.

"I like being tied up, but not spanked."
"I like being spanked, but not tied up."
Plus, she snores.
"I want you to figure it out"
"I'll tell you what I want"
Plus, she watches TV shows that you hate, or she is a political opposite of you.
"I don't scream"
"I don't like gags"
Plus, she can't cook, and isn't an adventurous eater.
"Only mild nipple clamps, and only for a while"
Plus, her idea of visiting Europe is "Euro Disney"

Yeah, all of the normal pitfalls, plus the BDSM ones.

I've never met a sub that didn't swallow, but that's as far as I'd venture as far as "All subs _________." And I am quite sure that there are plenty of subs who insist that they won't swallow, too.

As has been pointed out and debated for a zillion years, there is as much diversity in subs as there is in people. Doms, too, of course.

I've found that making a good check, being very confident, being funny, and being decisive has helped me stay sane. I've also gotten very good at being able to say "this ain't gonna work," when the signs are obvious... but it's still hard to say goodbye for a very simple reason:

All women are nuts, but submissive women are "Nuts Times Ten..."

 

[AnnieLit]

Doms,

Have you ever been with a new sub and you're hashing out the details of what each other likes or wants. But they become - I'm not sure if impatient or indecisive - but demand you make a decision as the dom, only to be criticized later for doing it? It's like the whole girlfriend picking a restaurant thing. Thoughts. Answers?

Are you talking about the negotiations stage when it is words only or about actual play time?
For negotiations I love lists. There are few ready made online, take any, add to it whatever you are into that is not already there, have her fill it in. These checklists ask to rate BOTH the experience level and the enjoyment of every activity. So, assuming that she is telling you the truth, you will be able to see items that are enjoyment=5, experience=0. Careful with those! That are things from the dream land -- she have read about them, seen them in pictures, and thinks that she likes them. But she has absolutely no idea how it will actually feel. So, go very slow with these. Start easy and turn the heat up if you see that she is OK with it.

With the items where she marks having some experience, ask follow up questions. Because she might easily think that there is only one way of doing something, but you must know that there are many different ways and just because she liked one does not automatically mean that she will like another. And, again, for real play start from easy things and go up, not the other way around.

Oh, forgot the disclaimer: I am no dom either, in all situation where I had to negotiate anything, I was on the sub side

 

[UsuallyPresent]

I'm late posting on this but - if you use something like a 0-5 scale, before you give the sub the list, define what each level on the scale means. Even then, don't trust the higher numbers.

If a prospective sub says they've got a '5' in experience in, say, being spanked, that really gives the PYT little info. It may mean they've been spanked with just a bare hand, but lots and lots of times. It may mean they've been spanked with everything in the kitchen. It may mean they've tried everything - except the PYT's preferred method of spanking.

A '0' is actually easier to deal with than a '5' in my opinion.

So while lists are AWESOME at starting the conversation, please don't stop there. There's a lot more landmines in the potential relationship that are not covered by any list I've ever seen than are covered.

As for subs being nuts - Yep! Ain't it great?

 

[Lascivity]

People can change their mind in the moment, or discover that they don't want something they thought they did. That's just people. But, as someone who's in charge of the scene or relationship or whatever arrangement you have, there are definitely things you can do to make it less likely.

If you think they might be agreeing to something that they'll later change their mind about, press them on it. Give them more detail about what is involved. You can steer them, help them, give them the information they need to make informed calls on what they do and don't like... which, in turn, will reduce changes of mind later on.

 

[Ginlover]

All women are nuts, but submissive women are "Nuts Times Ten..."

Wish I could say, so cynical but its something I've been told by too many dominants I respect. I hang my head in shame as I agree - I'm at least 20 times more nuts lol