The beauty of submissive men

[LucianDevine]

My guess, just based on what I have seen, is that female Dommes are in the minority. Male subs also are in the minority as society doesn't seem to support them. I have run into several males who have sub tendencies but they keep them quiet for that reason, or want to appear to be Dom in public so consider themselves switches at most, but typically Dom.

Things aren't quite as bad as they used to be on that front. Both female domination and male submission are more openly accepted than they used to be, but it is a really hard thing to express, for a few different reasons.

For starters, if you are curious about the lifestyle, and want to talk about it, you likely have no idea where forums like this, or other similar forums might be. Not having people to talk to can make you feel alone, or even potentially ashamed of what you're feeling and craving.

Society definitely doesn't help when it comes to men embracing their submissive side. I have always had to be the strong and stoic stereotypical male, even when I was a child. Fitting this stereotype is/was even harder for me, because I am on the smaller side. I am only 5'4', and I think I weight around 130 pounds.

I first got into interested in the lifestyle at 14, god bless the internet, lol. I always found myself gravitating towards lesbian threads at first, for obvious reasons. More than that though, I found myself always looking for bdsm, power exchange threads. I also found myself relating more to the submissive than anything else.

Even with my growing interest in the things that I was reading, it took me 7 years to finally work up the courage to do my first post on here. The rest of the story kind of speaks for itself. If anybody has any questions though, they may feel free to ask them.

 

[LucianDevine]

Someone has to be


I've realised that I *do* want input from a submissive man and I do want to know what turns him on and what his fantasies are .... And feedback about what he thinks about what I'm fantasising about.

It might be because I'm still fairly new to embracing dominance - but without that it feels a bit to me like I'm working in a vacuum.

One thing I did was that I discovered I like playing "Truth or Dare" - except it's only one way.
So I got my sub to admit that he had been thinking about me and fantasising about me .... And then got him to describe his fantasies.
There was no expectation that I would follow his fantasies... But it gave me ideas... And so I included some of the ideas that appealed to me along with things I felt like doing.

I don't have the time to give you the input that you are looking for at this exact moment. I have to go to work, but when I get home, I will be glad to give you some input, tell you some of my fantasies, etc, if you are interested.

 

[Erochic]

I don't have the time to give you the input that you are looking for at this exact moment. I have to go to work, but when I get home, I will be glad to give you some input, tell you some of my fantasies, etc, if you are interested.

I think you've misunderstood. I was meaning my own sub - somebody I am personally playing with IRL.
That's what I was talking about here... Getting input from him as I figure out where I want to go.

 

[pensivepoet]

Sorry to have been the always stupid post...

Perhaps you misread my comment.
I said there was nary a stupid post to derail the thread.
That means there hasn't been a stupid post.
Sorry for any misunderstanding
~pen

 

[policywank]

All of the comments about communication and being a couple first are quite right.

The challenge I have found is with men who claim to be Sub but really just want X. Whether that is a spanking or any other treatment they seize on that and pester me for it long after the point has been made. They see it as "punishment" even though it is what they crave then set about irritating me to get their punishment. In that scenario they are being intentionally disobedient at which point I feel compelled to withhold that which they want in order to exercise control.

I think this scenario amounts to something a bit different than Dom/Sub.

Of course everyone has their own flavour. But if after communicating and bonding with you Dom you still can't accept leadership - and at that point it is her prerogative to expect you to pipe down and follow - then you probably aren't interested in being submissive so much as pursuing some element that you perceive in that lifestyle.

 

[MsAmative]

All of the comments about communication and being a couple first are quite right.

The challenge I have found is with men who claim to be Sub but really just want X. Whether that is a spanking or any other treatment they seize on that and pester me for it long after the point has been made. They see it as "punishment" even though it is what they crave then set about irritating me to get their punishment. In that scenario they are being intentionally disobedient at which point I feel compelled to withhold that which they want in order to exercise control.

I think this scenario amounts to something a bit different than Dom/Sub.

Of course everyone has their own flavour. But if after communicating and bonding with you Dom you still can't accept leadership - and at that point it is her prerogative to expect you to pipe down and follow - then you probably aren't interested in being submissive so much as pursuing some element that you perceive in that lifestyle.

I think that happens a lot and I have dealt with it in the past. I think sometimes part of that comes from one getting wrapped up in the net, and all the stories and day dreaming and pornography. They get stuck in this loop of how it wants to be or get obsessed with an act. they want it, try to top from the bottom or become bratty to try to get what they want and you are smart enough to realize what they are doing and withhold it. (I know there are people out there who live that dynamic, where they love the brattiness and it a way its almost a role play. I respect it but I don't really understand it..) You are talking about a sub topping from the bottom, and you are right that those actions aren't submission. Those behaviors are not a good pattern or skill or something you want to see and they are and can be a huge issue though.

From the s-point of view, those "subs" have to have it. that act or moment, it is a want, a need, its something they associate and need to have it (usually to feel fulfilled.) At least for the ones I have personally dealt with. IMO I don't know that I personally would call it a leadership issue. In my case I haven't found it a lack of actual submission but something that they desire that specific thing, it is an expectation they have, something that leaves them feeling fulfilled (or think they need to be fulfilled. ) Granted, if they need that to be fulfilled in every session and its not a big component that I get off on that is a problem... because then they need to find someone who wants the same things. I think many may realize that what they are doing on some level is wrong but just know that they want what they need and are trying to find it. To a certain extent I think it is important to listen to that.

To me submission is simply the act of yielding to my authority/judgement/opinion and treatment. (which is pretty much your dictionary definition.) But just like I have needs I expect to be met (to feel satisfied) they do as well. Sometimes that yielding (and that act alone) isn't enough for total satisfaction for a sub. I don't think that takes away from the submission itself. No, its not necessarily about what they want. But there has to be enough give and take to make it work. No matter how submissive you are, your d-type cannot just take, take, take. If the s-type doesn't get back what they want for what they offer the dynamic doesn't work.

You put that sub who "tops from the bottom for X" with someone who loves to do whatever X is and that would likely describe that person in an entirely different light. I think these situations beg the question... what really is submission.

 

[pensivepoet]

Seems to me, in the scenario PW describes, it's worse than topping from the bottom. In this case, i would contend the sub is truly Dom as he/she manipulates to get what they truly want.
And when the D allows it, they in fact become the submissive.
There's nothing inherently wrong with this, if it's just role play, kink, and both understand and enjoy it.
Just another aspect of the bdsm universe, but barely on the fringe of the true D/s world.
Again, seems to me

 

[just4friends]

I have learned ..

Not to try to argue with those who have deep convictions to the rules of bdsm.

Seems odd to me that a Domme would not want to know every possible tool she could use for whatever her goal was. Certainly the sub should probably not bring it up while in a session unless asked (?)... But as part of learning before and after .. Between... ? Unless it is their lifestyle and they never leave their roles. In that case, I pity the Domme that can not fathom her sub's perversity to try new things. Especially if the sub is seeking her pleasure... Sad. Power gone wrong. Granted a Domme may not be looking for pleasure... But that didn't seem to be the trend in this thread.

 

[pensivepoet]

I agree with your first line, J4F.
You mention further on "session" and therein lies the deep rub between lifestyle tpe 24/7's and role playing.
A session, yes, a Domme would most likely want to know what makes Her sub tick. But the hardcores would scoff at this.
There is no right or wrong, but as with all things, there are those that would insist otherwise.

 

[just4friends]

Good line to draw..

I agree with your first line, J4F.
You mention further on "session" and therein lies the deep rub between lifestyle tpe 24/7's and role playing.
A session, yes, a Domme would most likely want to know what makes Her sub tick. But the hardcores would scoff at this.
There is no right or wrong, but as with all things, there are those that would insist otherwise.

Players... Vs hard core lifestyle...
As a switch... It could never be more than sessions... Learning how to turn things around on her for her next session as receiver

 

[MsAmative]

I agree with your first line, J4F.
You mention further on "session" and therein lies the deep rub between lifestyle tpe 24/7's and role playing.
A session, yes, a Domme would most likely want to know what makes Her sub tick. But the hardcores would scoff at this.
There is no right or wrong, but as with all things, there are those that would insist otherwise.

Always the voice of reason. in the end you always mention the thing that I love about all this...

Things varry from person to person and sometimes I think that is the beauty in all of this.

 

[coati]

My Domme would casually ask about my fantasies when we were going about our more mundane daily activities. It was understood that I was expected to answer these questions with total honesty. I liked being an open book with her at her request. There is something so liberating about having nothing to hide-- it's a tingling feeling that I can sense in my testicles.

It was also understood that I could have no expectation regarding her role in fulfilling these fantasies, but I did notice over time that several of the fantasies did come to fruition.

 

[pensivepoet]

My Domme would casually ask about my fantasies when we were going about our more mundane daily activities. It was understood that I was expected to answer these questions with total honesty. I liked being an open book with her at her request. There is something so liberating about having nothing to hide-- it's a tingling feeling that I can sense in my testicles.

It was also understood that I could have no expectation regarding her role in fulfilling these fantasies, but I did notice over time that several of the fantasies did come to fruition.

This seems to me like a very healthy, happy, stable relationship.
Complete understanding

 

[coati]

This seems to me like a very healthy, happy, stable relationship.
Complete understanding

It was for a while. The relationship fell apart when I violated one of the cardinal rules-- I insisted on communication during a vacation when she was not willing to communicate.

She realized then that the relationship would not work for her, and that was the end of that. It was a hard lesson for me to learn, because I have never met anyone with as much passion and intensity as this woman.

She also taught me to move on, if something does not work out.

 

[pensivepoet]

Hmm....sorry to hear about that, but not surprised.
The dynamics in an intense D/s relationship is a tightrope walk over a deep canyon.

 

[LucianDevine]

My Domme would casually ask about my fantasies when we were going about our more mundane daily activities. It was understood that I was expected to answer these questions with total honesty. I liked being an open book with her at her request. There is something so liberating about having nothing to hide-- it's a tingling feeling that I can sense in my testicles.

It was also understood that I could have no expectation regarding her role in fulfilling these fantasies, but I did notice over time that several of the fantasies did come to fruition.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what you describe. I actually feel that it's perfect. The two of you can live your daily lives, during which she asks something that she has every right to ask. You naturally respond honestly, as is expected, without any expectation that the things you tell her will happen that day, or any day for that matter. She learns something about you that she wants to know, and maybe use in the future, and you simply answer her questions. Good communication.

 

[ARoseSoSweet]

I agree with your first line, J4F.
You mention further on "session" and therein lies the deep rub between lifestyle tpe 24/7's and role playing.
A session, yes, a Domme would most likely want to know what makes Her sub tick. But the hardcores would scoff at this.
There is no right or wrong, but as with all things, there are those that would insist otherwise.

One of the biggest things I have learnt: What is normal for you, is not normal for someone else, and as long as it works for you and your dynamic, that is all that matters.

I am definitely one that would be asking my sub about what they want and their fantasies, but there would be no guarantee that they would happen. if they were within my power, they likely would happen though.

That said, any sub of mine would have the freedom to talk to me openly and honestly.. i would expect them to ask for permission to speak freely and go from there.

Limits and interests also change and evolve. i have even found that myself that things which may have been a hard limit have evolved into a soft limit based on how it would be carried out or what it involves. But not to push one into making this change, they have to become interested.

 

[pensivepoet]

That's so true about change and evolution, Ms Rose.
As with all things, stagnation and status quo can kill desire.
Both parties should be open and eager for new possibilities.
Nothing sparks like the unexpected.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Started a new thread in the cafe' with this subject in mind.

Ladies, it would be lovely if you would take a minute and post on it.


Also, I think it would be great if one of the fellas would start a companion thread...

 

[policywank]

I think that happens a lot and I have dealt with it in the past. I think sometimes part of that comes from one getting wrapped up in the net, and all the stories and day dreaming and pornography. They get stuck in this loop of how it wants to be or get obsessed with an act. they want it, try to top from the bottom or become bratty to try to get what they want and you are smart enough to realize what they are doing and withhold it. (I know there are people out there who live that dynamic, where they love the brattiness and it a way its almost a role play. I respect it but I don't really understand it..) You are talking about a sub topping from the bottom, and you are right that those actions aren't submission. Those behaviors are not a good pattern or skill or something you want to see and they are and can be a huge issue though.

From the s-point of view, those "subs" have to have it. that act or moment, it is a want, a need, its something they associate and need to have it (usually to feel fulfilled.) At least for the ones I have personally dealt with. IMO I don't know that I personally would call it a leadership issue. In my case I haven't found it a lack of actual submission but something that they desire that specific thing, it is an expectation they have, something that leaves them feeling fulfilled (or think they need to be fulfilled. ) Granted, if they need that to be fulfilled in every session and its not a big component that I get off on that is a problem... because then they need to find someone who wants the same things. I think many may realize that what they are doing on some level is wrong but just know that they want what they need and are trying to find it. To a certain extent I think it is important to listen to that.

To me submission is simply the act of yielding to my authority/judgement/opinion and treatment. (which is pretty much your dictionary definition.) But just like I have needs I expect to be met (to feel satisfied) they do as well. Sometimes that yielding (and that act alone) isn't enough for total satisfaction for a sub. I don't think that takes away from the submission itself. No, its not necessarily about what they want. But there has to be enough give and take to make it work. No matter how submissive you are, your d-type cannot just take, take, take. If the s-type doesn't get back what they want for what they offer the dynamic doesn't work.

You put that sub who "tops from the bottom for X" with someone who loves to do whatever X is and that would likely describe that person in an entirely different light. I think these situations beg the question... what really is submission.

Just to clarify......I am very much interested in what my Sub wants and desires and that clearly involves communication. It should not be take, take, take for the Dom. To lead I must put my focus on him. As I have said in many postings being in authority is not license to be self indulgent. It comes with an enormous responsibility to properly treat those that you lead whether as a Dom or any other leader in society.

However, being a Sub comes with the responsibility to follow. If I don't listen or understand what my Sub wants I am not being a good Dom. But once I understand his needs and desires it is up to me to determine how to lead him and that most certainly does not involve an obligation to respond where, when and how he wants.

The frustrating Subs I am referring to are the ones who have had the ear of their mistress, know that she understands what they want, but won't let it go. For me the protocol is to raise the request, issue or whatever politely and clearly (he can speak freely). I may respond right away or at a later time in my sole discretion, but once that has been communicated to him that is the end of it. If a long time passes and there is reason to think I have forgotten he may raise it again, but that period is usually counted in days and weeks not minutes or hours.

So when I say he is expected to shut the fuck up when I tell him to, the presumption is that I have already heard him, not that I am refusing to hear him. Or it may be that I am distracted and that particular moment is not conducive to discussion in which case he is expected to shut the fuck up and wait, not shut up indefinitely. If he obeys I will come back to the discussion, usually fairly quickly and he usually gets what he wants - but always in relation to obedience, not impatient pestering. And in general he knows that I don't want to be inundated with suggestions and wants. Obviously that is a question of judgment as to how much is too much, but when in doubt I expect him to err on the side of caution.

Engaging in faux acts of submission isn't the same as actually doing what your Dom wants. If I tell him to kneel at my feet and he does so he is being submissive. If I tell him to go do the laundry and he just stays kneeling at my feet he is adopting a submissive stance but he is not submitting to my instructions and therefore being disobedient. It is an interesting question of whether he is still being submissive in that scenario. Maybe he is confused or just aching to be at my feet and not quite able to pull himself away in which case I would say he is being a disobedient Sub but still a Sub. If he is testing my will and hiding behind the fact that his stance is submissive while he is disobeying me then he is trending into insubordination and arguably no longer submissive.

Of course what the hell do I know. We must all define our own parameters. My approach is to listen and pay close attention to his needs, but expect full compliance when I tell him to leave things to me. Whatever the parameters are in a given relationship I think that being Sub involves a substantial degree of obedience, not just engaging in acts that we think of as submissive without regard to the instructions of the Dom.

 

[eroticspank]

Hello, great thread!

http://prettykinkythings.tumblr.com/tagged/male-submission

http://facesittingfanatic.tumblr.com/archive

Hi to everyone, here are a few links that I like. I do think this pictures in general do depict Submissive men and Dominant women in a beautiful way.

I agree that being Dominant or Submissive is not about the outfit you wear, or even the acts, it is more about what is inside the mind.

I think it is a perfectly natural thing to put someone else's pleasure and satisfaction over your own. In this case I am talking about a man putting the pleasure of his gf or wife over his.

The part that is hard to describe is HOW the woman takes over and enjoys herself. Each woman is different on what turns her on and gets her off. I see physical satisfaction a part and emotion satisfaction a part of the overall satisfaction of the woman or Domme. It is all about pleasing her and along the way that MAY include teasing and playing with him. However, I feel the Media, Porn, etc makes it all about teasing, playing with the sub and all about him. I think that is where they go wrong and why I feel some of us find those videos cold and boring.

The beauty to me is about the woman taking over and truly enjoying herself as the sub and the rest of the audience enjoy the scene.

ES

 

[jonthechaosman]

These pictures from http://prettykinkythings.tumblr.com/...ale-submission I found particularly wonderful. The first because it resembles my wife's body and I love just holding her like that. It looks about as tender and loving as you can get. The second because it shows love and aftercare, something seriously missing in most D/s images. The third because...Just look at how proud he is. He knows those clothespins are coming off. He knows it will hurt. He knows he is strong enough to hold position as he was ordered to do. He is strong and bold in his service to Her desire. He WILL be strong for Her. Wow. Were I capable of being a sub, that's what I would strive for. I think it's beautiful.

 

[eroticspank]

These pictures from http://prettykinkythings.tumblr.com/...ale-submission I found particularly wonderful. The first because it resembles my wife's body and I love just holding her like that. It looks about as tender and loving as you can get. The second because it shows love and aftercare, something seriously missing in most D/s images. The third because...Just look at how proud he is. He knows those clothespins are coming off. He knows it will hurt. He knows he is strong enough to hold position as he was ordered to do. He is strong and bold in his service to Her desire. He WILL be strong for Her. Wow. Were I capable of being a sub, that's what I would strive for. I think it's beautiful.

Wow those are nice pictures. I have seen the second one before and it does show love and aftercare. In my case, I am not into marks or blood but that picture still does show a lot of emotion and is a turn on. A Domme can be caring and nurturing too.

ES

 

[Saucyminx]

These pictures from http://prettykinkythings.tumblr.com/...ale-submission I found particularly wonderful. The first because it resembles my wife's body and I love just holding her like that. It looks about as tender and loving as you can get. The second because it shows love and aftercare, something seriously missing in most D/s images. The third because...Just look at how proud he is. He knows those clothespins are coming off. He knows it will hurt. He knows he is strong enough to hold position as he was ordered to do. He is strong and bold in his service to Her desire. He WILL be strong for Her. Wow. Were I capable of being a sub, that's what I would strive for. I think it's beautiful.

That first one is absolutely gorgeous.

 

[SovereignShe]

Yes, you're right dommes can be caring and nurturing. Submissive men are oh my...so very lovely!

Aftercare is a necessity with me.