I hope McDonalds people get $15/hr

[4est_4est_Gump]

This thread is a gold mine of economic fallacies...



If wage floors are such a great idea, why not go back to Nixonian price ceilings?

If you want employers to pay more so their employees can spend more, how have they benefitted when the cost of goods and services go up to match their wage increase?

As far as the contention that life has gone on as normal with the increase of minimum wages, that cannot be true in the light of the same contention by the same contingent that the Middle Class is losing ground.

If Walmart is so detrimental to its employees, why do they stay?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

What will the $15 an hour worker do when he is replaced by a robot?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

This thread is a gold mine of economic fallacies...



If wage floors are such a great idea, why not go back to Nixonian price ceilings?

If you want employers to pay more so their employees can spend more, how have they benefitted when the cost of goods and services go up to match their wage increase?

As far as the contention that life has gone on as normal with the increase of minimum wages, that cannot be true in the light of the same contention by the same contingent that the Middle Class is losing ground.

If Walmart is so detrimental to its employees, why do they stay?

Actually WM employees don't stay long.

Assistant managers cut hours, then spread the rest around so that you cant get a 2nd job.

 

[dan_c00000]

No...welfare and the pension system both need to be terminated

Workers pay for their own pensions. I think you mean Social Security. You're getting closer!

Most community colleges offer a macroeconomics course you might want to look into it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

This thread is a gold mine of economic fallacies...

Indeed.

If you want employers to pay more so their employees can spend more, how have they benefitted when the cost of goods and services go up to match their wage increase?

In the real world that doesn't actually happen, sure it might go up a little but it's not going to negate the pay raise.

As far as the contention that life has gone on as normal with the increase of minimum wages, that cannot be true in the light of the same contention by the same contingent that the Middle Class is losing ground.

We aren't talking about the wage of the middlle class we are talking about the wage of the poorest workers in the country.

And the problem is that we haven't increased minimum wage along with the inflation of the economy, further exacerbating the ever widening income gap. Min wage is so low that now they are all welfare qualifiers and the big companies like that....why should they feed their workers when they can get the tax payer to do it for them?

Ol' John on 20/20 even has wal mart on camera passing out food stamp applications with their new employee packets. God lovin' republicanism at it's finest!!

BTW the companies that engage in this practice? Almost unanimously die hard Republican supporters. It would piss them off greatly if they could no longer get the public to take responsibility for their employees.

If Walmart is so detrimental to its employees, why do they stay?

It's not detrimental to the employees, it's detrimental to the middle/upper middle class that actually pays taxes, as they are the ones having to pay for all those employees food stamps and other public assistance, when it should be the consumers/owners of Wal Donalds that should be paying for that shit.

What will the $15 an hour worker do when he is replaced by a robot?

Like that hasn't already happened....have you been to a wal mart lately? How many cashiers did you see? They will always need a variety of human beings there to run shit but the robots will take the peoples jobs as soon as they become cheaper than the humans....every time...we can't stop that...and min wage has shit to do with it.

Workers pay for their own pensions. I think you mean Social Security. You're getting closer!

You must not get many paychecks....workers pay for SS too.

But your beloved gubbmint spent it all after they said they wouldn't so now it's just a giant gaping pit we will more than likely never fill back in. Enjoy!

Most community colleges offer a macroeconomics course you might want to look into it.

Indeed, you might want to hit up a industrial revolution ---> modern US history class while you're at it. Get yourself a little perspective on what a joke SS is and how our leaders over the past ohhh 70 years dropped a big ol' steamer in that punch bowl for the grand kids to deal with. It's more of that epic baby boomer 'personal responsibility' we keep hearing about.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

What will the $15 an hour worker do when he is replaced by a robot?

Clean the robot.

 

[contrifan32]

Indeed.BTW the companies that engage in this practice? Almost unanimously die hard Republican supporters. It would piss them off greatly if they could no longer get the public to take responsibility for their employees.

And just where did you get this interesting statistic?

 

[dan_c00000]

You must not get many paychecks....workers pay for SS too.

But your beloved gubbmint spent it all after they said they wouldn't so now it's just a giant gaping pit we will more than likely never fill back in. Enjoy!



Indeed, you might want to hit up a industrial revolution ---> modern US history class while you're at it. Get yourself a little perspective on what a joke SS is and how our leaders over the past ohhh 70 years dropped a big ol' steamer in that punch bowl for the grand kids to deal with. It's more of that epic baby boomer 'personal responsibility' we keep hearing about.

Based on what it wrote she was referring to pensions.

Also social security is not broke and not everyone pays into.

I saw in another of your bullshit posts you claim to be a CEO (what happened to the PhD?). You should have known this. Good job.

 

[Skiddles2014]

Old people are funny and stupid at the same time.

They think 100 bucks will pay the bills and buy food.

 

[badbabysitter]

Iwas going to retort to something I said... but Botany Boy beat me to it

 

[BotanyBoy]

And just where did you get this interesting statistic?

There are like 40 fucking documentaries/news specials about these practices....google the shit, the evidence is overwhelmingly damning.

It's on camera....the businesses themselves admit to these practices and lobby republicans openly to keep min wage where it is or lower, but they NEVER lobby to get rid of welfare. Not fucking once.

Awwwww himz LIMBAUGH bubble bursteded???

Wal Donald's is fucking the tax payer to increase their profit margins, and you along with the rest of the republican wankers support it.

Based on what it wrote she was referring to pensions.

Also social security is not broke and not everyone pays into.

Ok..workers still pay into it or there is nothing.

Fine it can't run out of money ever...SS is the magic money machine.

I saw in another of your bullshit posts you claim to be a CEO

That's right.

(what happened to the PhD?).

Abandoned for the moment b/c well, I like giant piles of cash more than a GPA with a fat bill attached to it.

Research continues however....mostly for commercial reasons though. I'll finish it school probably never, I really like this whole money and living beach front in usually sunny, sometimes foggy CA. Way more fun than academia that's for sure. but not nearly as many 20 y/o women who don't know any better.

You should have known this. Good job.

Know what? I can grow more each year than most make in 10? No shit I would have never joined the Army and started farming long ago. But then again I probably wouldn't be as good at what I do if I hadn't had several years worth of biology/botany/horticulture/agriculture class's that the GI bill and I paid for now would I?

All works out for a reason...I put the classroom down to start learning in the real world, deff not the first and I wont be the last, sue me.

 

[contrifan32]

There are like 40 fucking documentaries/news specials about these practices....google the shit, the evidence is overwhelmingly damning.

It's on camera....the businesses themselves admit to these practices and lobby republicans openly to keep min wage where it is or lower, but they NEVER lobby to get rid of welfare. Not fucking once.

Enlighten me...and show me one documentary/news special (no, MSMBC does not count) where a business that says they want to keep the minimum wage low so they can keep workers on food stamps and welfare... oh yea and that they declare their party affiliation too.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Enlighten me...and show me one documentary/news special (no, MSMBC does not count) where a business that says they want to keep the minimum wage low so they can keep workers on food stamps and welfare... oh yea and that they declare their party affiliation too.

I'm not catering to your willful ignance...if you can't fucking use google then too fucking bad for you. Just sit there telling yourself Limbaugh is right, and cheer companies passing out welfare applications to new employees while lobbying to keep min wage down (pssssssst.....that's not the democrats).

And if you can't connect those dots...you belong in the tea party, we don't want or need you.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfmbpuMjHM1qazidjo1_500.jpg

 

[dg]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfmbpuMjHM1qazidjo1_500.jpg

When I saw this picture I caught just the faintest whiff of vagina and barbecue sauce in the air. I'm now fully aroused.

 

[contrifan32]

I'm not catering to your willful ignance...if you can't fucking use google then too fucking bad for you. Just sit there telling yourself Limbaugh is right, and cheer companies passing out welfare applications to new employees while lobbying to keep min wage down (pssssssst.....that's not the democrats).

yea, just the response I expected. Is that PCP you mix with that shit? That would explain some things.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Indeed.

In the real world that doesn't actually happen, sure it might go up a little but it's not going to negate the pay raise.

We aren't talking about the wage of the middlle class we are talking about the wage of the poorest workers in the country.

And the problem is that we haven't increased minimum wage along with the inflation of the economy, further exacerbating the ever widening income gap. Min wage is so low that now they are all welfare qualifiers and the big companies like that....why should they feed their workers when they can get the tax payer to do it for them?

Ol' John on 20/20 even has wal mart on camera passing out food stamp applications with their new employee packets. God lovin' republicanism at it's finest!!

BTW the companies that engage in this practice? Almost unanimously die hard Republican supporters. It would piss them off greatly if they could no longer get the public to take responsibility for their employees.

It's not detrimental to the employees, it's detrimental to the middle/upper middle class that actually pays taxes, as they are the ones having to pay for all those employees food stamps and other public assistance, when it should be the consumers/owners of Wal Donalds that should be paying for that shit.

Like that hasn't already happened....have you been to a wal mart lately? How many cashiers did you see? They will always need a variety of human beings there to run shit but the robots will take the peoples jobs as soon as they become cheaper than the humans....every time...we can't stop that...and min wage has shit to do with it.

You must not get many paychecks....workers pay for SS too.

But your beloved gubbmint spent it all after they said they wouldn't so now it's just a giant gaping pit we will more than likely never fill back in. Enjoy!

Indeed, you might want to hit up a industrial revolution ---> modern US history class while you're at it. Get yourself a little perspective on what a joke SS is and how our leaders over the past ohhh 70 years dropped a big ol' steamer in that punch bowl for the grand kids to deal with. It's more of that epic baby boomer 'personal responsibility' we keep hearing about.

Okay, let us say that you get your way and the poorest people get their wage doubled. These were the unskilled (and often unmotivated). Then you say their employers will then raise their prices slightly and that is acceptable. How acceptable will it then be for a skilled worker to make less than they earn? Will not these workers than ask for a better wage? Will their inclination be to keep up?

What happens to the mom and pops?

If everything at "Walmart/McDonald's" goes up "slightly" in price will not then each shopper lose a little buying power and will this not effect other purchases and, more importantly, savings?

If they are contributing to "Republicans" instead of Democrats (from what I've been looking at it is about 60-40) then perhaps Democrats should stop treating them like enemies and trying to keep them out of their constituent communities.

When Government gets so powerful that its purchase price is cost effective, even imperative, to business, then business will purchase government indulgences.
A_J, the Stupid

The economy has not been inflated, the money supply has been. Money is not Capital.

Yes, I have been to Walmart. The number of cashiers varies pretty much directly with the number of shoppers. If you raise prices then you will decrease shoppers, especially at Walmart. It becomes a hidden tax.

When you raise the cost of labor, you hurt the poorest workers for they are the first to be squeezed out of their jobs. Then Walmart will work harder to reduce the number of employees and squeeze productivity out of the workers who remain. And, in a tough job market, many of them will remain even if they are being abused because of the competition than that arises for jobs. Who is going to feel this pain the most? The young? Minorities?

I find it hard to believe that so many do not see the link between benefits and the economy. Those benefits have to be paid by taxes on those engaged in Capital growth or in pure fiat inflation. All taxation falls upon the Middle Class and economic floors and ceilings are taxes, so what you are arguing is that you do not like where the Middle Class is being taxed as if we had no choice other than raising taxes by either adding benefits or adding, by force, wages.

The only economic way for a Walmart employee to raise his wage is through competition, not the elimination of competition. That means that if they want their largess in Capital and not inflation, then they must do something other than "work hard and play by the rules" because you are never, ever going to get ahead by working hard and playing by the rules; that is the equivalent of being a C student in High School. You get ahead by taking risks, by investing in yourself.

 

[BotanyBoy]

yea, just the response I expected.

Fine I'll be a good socialist and give you your hand out you corporate welfare cheerleader....apparently google is too complicated for republicans.


"Walmart PAC, Walton Family Political Contributions Favor Conservatives"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/18/walmart-political-contributions_n_3461267.html

Clear cut Republican favoritism by Wal Mart.
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000367

The retail giant has poured $425,000 into the Senate GOP’s campaign coffers since the start of 2010 — including a $100,000 donation last March as Republicans were pushing for a controversial tax credit that could mean millions for Walmart.

Shady Wal Mart contributions to GOP...
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...ire-donations-article-1.1528067#ixzz2mjXme4vJ

One Walmart's Low Wages Could Cost Taxpayers $900,000 Per Year

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/31/walmart-taxpayers-house-report_n_3365814.html

Study: Wal-Mart Could Cost Taxpayers Millions Per Year in Employee Subsidies

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013...yers-millions-per-year-in-employee-subsidies/

Wal-Mart's low wages cost taxpayers

http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/04/news/companies/walmart-medicaid/

Forbes says 900k -1.7m per year per store...god damn you pubs love that corporate welfare don't you??
http://www.forbes.com/sites/laurahe...es-a-drag-on-the-economy-new-report-says-yes/

Is that PCP you mix with that shit? That would explain some things.

CNN, CBS, HP, OS, Forbes...No PCP though.

I'm sorry, it doesn't explain how wrong you are, how badly I just fucked your shit up with regard to this argument, nor how fucking stupid I just made you look for being a lazy and stupid. Now be a good teapublican welfare cheerleader, tuck tail and run like a good bitch.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Okay, let us say that you get your way and the poorest people get their wage doubled. These were the unskilled (and often unmotivated). Then you say their employers will then raise their prices slightly and that is acceptable.

Yep, that's the most rational option available. The other option is to continue bidnizz as usual and keep subsidizing all these uber corp's labor forces.

How acceptable will it then be for a skilled worker to make less than they earn? Will not these workers than ask for a better wage?

How acceptable is it that you're forcing tax payers to support a private for profit company they may or may not like?

The skilled worker needs to ask for more.

Will their inclination be to keep up?

Not my fucking problem.

What happens to the mom and pops?

What happens to them? If your employees are on public assistance you need to reduce the number of employees you have and pay them so they aren't bleeding the tax payer.

If everything at "Walmart/McDonald's" goes up "slightly" in price will not then each shopper lose a little buying power and will this not effect other purchases and, more importantly, savings?

It will....guess they will have to cut the fuck down on shit they can't afford....oh noes

If they are contributing to "Republicans" instead of Democrats (from what I've been looking at it is about 60-40)

Actually Wal Mart is more like 75/25 I'm sure it varies by report and company but the trend is strongly right wing= pro corporate welfare.

then perhaps Democrats should stop treating them like enemies and trying to keep them out of their constituent communities.

Perhaps the republicans should stop trying to fuck the tax payer for every penny they can to the brink of legality.

The economy has not been inflated, the money supply has been. Money is not Capital.

Whatever.....these companies are getting over for BIG...nay HUGE money...on the tax payer.

If you raise prices then you will decrease shoppers, especially at Walmart. It becomes a hidden tax.

It's not a hidden tax, it's the end of subsidy, that's the cost of doing fuckin' business without ripping the tax payer for it. God damn you sound like a whiny socialist.

"ohhhhh woes is me, how dare that evil freedumb hating liberals make me pay my own employees!!! WOES!!" fuck that bullshit. Those assholes need to take some personal responsibility and pay their fucking employees....not give them a food stamp application with their work uniform.

When you raise the cost of labor, you hurt the poorest workers for they are the first to be squeezed out of their jobs.

And witches weigh as much as a duck!!

Then Walmart will work harder to reduce the number of employees and squeeze productivity out of the workers who remain. And, in a tough job market, many of them will remain even if they are being abused because of the competition than that arises for jobs. Who is going to feel this pain the most? The young? Minorities?

Well if wal mart is too big for it's britches they going to have to downsize aren't they?? Welcome back maw n' paw!!

I find it hard to believe that so many do not see the link between benefits and the economy.

You mean benefits that are being paid to float these companies workers?? Yea I see the link every time they put a big fat check in the GOP coffer and the GOP wants to keep min wage as low as they can!!

as if we had no choice other than raising taxes by either adding benefits or adding, by force, wages.

Name another option......other than adding benefits (helping wal mart/republicans out) or by upping min wage (forcing wal mart consumers to pay for walmart, instead of tax payers).

The only economic way for a Walmart employee to raise his wage is through competition, not the elimination of competition. That means that if they want their largess in Capital and not inflation, then they must do something other than "work hard and play by the rules" because you are never, ever going to get ahead by working hard and playing by the rules;

No one is getting ahead on 15 fucking dollars an hour...get fucking real.....but it will get them off public assistance and make companies pay for their labor, not let the tax payer feed/house them.

 

[BotanyBoy]

contrifan32 where did you go??



We know...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You have an annoying posting style.

It is the continual demand for the subsidization of those "victims of Capitalism" that drains the economy of Capital. Then you get more demand for the service of the government. It is a vicious cycle, just look at our numbers of workforce participation, food stamp use and disability rolls. The benefits we give to them have to come from somewhere. That somewhere is the Middle Class.

It also comes at the expense of the young, for the borrowing that we are incurring to effect the social state will be paid by them. They will have great need of relief. One wonders where it will come from...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

"No one is getting ahead on 15 fucking dollars an hour...get fucking real.....but it will get them off public assistance and make companies pay for their labor, not let the tax payer feed/house them."

It will get some off. It will put more on.

Either way, either by direct theft or indirect taxation, the tax payer, the Middle Class still foots the bill for all of these Utopian economic sophisms and systems. The proof is before us every day, some just reach a horrid conclusion, that Capitalism causes inequalities when what it actually does is create opportunities. The warts of Capitalism are not the successful, but those who simply choose not to participate. Using government to assist them will not abrogate their basic nature. 10% of the people are always going to suffer. There is simply no reason to take it out on the other 90%.

If a person will not take a risk and will not better better their position in life, the sobeit. That is why there is charity. Charity is the caring voluntarily making a difference. Government is you putting a gun to my head so that you can make a difference.

Raising the minimum wage, any minimum wage at all, is just that.

Theft.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You have an annoying posting style.

It's called being right.

It is the continual demand for the subsidization of those "victims of Capitalism" that drains the economy of Capital.

Bullshit....the people we are asking to pay their employees have so much fucking money they couldn't spend it all in 1,000 life times if they tried. They are literally the wealthiest people who have EVER EXISTED, BY A FUCKING LANDSLIDE.

Then you get more demand for the service of the government. It is a vicious cycle, just look at our numbers of workforce participation, food stamp use and disability rolls.

If min wage were 15/hr none of them would qualify for any of the welfare of which you speak. McD's and wally world CONSUMERS would have to foot that bill....not the public funding that you support.

The tax payer is subsidizing the company's payroll....that's why, the rich are using the government to force the public to feed their employees and you just keep defending it 4est with rambling about free market that doesn't exist and can fix EVERYTHING because...magic!!

Bullshit.... and ya got nothing to back it up either otherwise Somalia would be the richest most powerful nation on the planet, but it's not it's a shit hole.

The benefits we give to them have to come from somewhere. That somewhere is the Middle Class.

They would come from the Wal Mart consumer if we raise the min wage out of welfare qualifying poverty.

Either way, either by direct theft or indirect taxation, the tax payer, the Middle Class still foots the bill for all of these

I like how you call making the consumer foot the bill instead of the tax payer....taxation, not the cost of hiring employees and doing honest buisness.

You got it backwards man....the companies are using the gov to tax the citizenry into feeding/houseing their employees so they can save that money instead. That's why in the past 30 years the top 10% has accrued for all intents and purposes every fucking bit of wealth in the nation....

That's not healthy and that's not capitalism, it's corrupt and it's got crony written all over it.

And you keep cheering for it, and blaming the employees for it....in what universe does this make sense to you??

Utopian economic sophisms and systems.

Says cpt. free market magic

The proof is before us every day, some just reach a horrid conclusion, that Capitalism causes inequalities when what it actually does is create opportunities.

Capitalism doesn't...CRONY capitalism does, and when companies are using the gov to reach into the public's pocket to cover the cost of doing bidnizz...that's CRONY capitalism.

The warts of Capitalism are not the successful, but those who simply choose not to participate.

No it is the successful who have purchased a DC lawyer to rob the public and convinced you to cheer them along the way.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You think they keep that money in the basement and swim in it like Scrooge McDuck?


It gets invested and pooled and fuels the economy.


It is not your purpose in life to dictate what is enough money even if you do it through the brute tyranny of Democracy based upon a Socialist morality that makes you sound like a noble knight coming to the rescue of the downtrodden.


There will be no medieval magic when one turns to government to be their champion. Government is not a shining knight on a strong horse; it is a night mare.
A_J, the Stupid

 

[dg]

You think they keep that money in the basement and swim in it like Scrooge McDuck?

If you have a basement full of money you can in fact swim in it like Scrooge McDuck.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Cronies only buy government when it is an essential investment.

When Government gets so powerful that its purchase price is cost effective, even imperative, to business, then business will purchase government indulgences.
A_J, the Stupid

Obama has many cronies...

Many of them we watch in amazement as they soak up indulgences.

And he's supposed to be the one President fighting injustice and inequality, but he's in it for himself. So is his wife.

“We’ve got a structural problem in this country. ”What you’ve got is middle class and working class Americans who are being squeezed and working longer hours for less pay; it’s harder for them to find jobs that pay a living wage. And it’s those structural long-term issues that I think Democrats are going to be debating on because that points to whether or not my children… are going to have the same standards of living we had growing up.”
Barack Hussein Obama, 2004 (Discussing a jobs report of 300,000 new jobs.)

I always tell Malia and Sasha, look, you guys, I don't worry about you. I mean, I worry the way parents worry, but they’re on a path that is going to be successful, even if the country as a whole is not successful.”
President Barack Obama, November 2011

We are going to have to ask everybody to sacrifice. And if we’re asking community colleges to sacrifice, if we’re asking people who are going to see potentially fewer services in their neighborhoods to make a little sacrifice, then we can ask millionaires and billionaires to make a little sacrifice.
President Barack Obama

We left corporate America, which is a lot of what we're asking young people to do. Don't go into corporate America. You know, become teachers. Work for the community. Be social workers. Be a nurse. Those are the careers that we need, and we're encouraging our young people to do that.
Michelle Obama