*chuckle* Instead of more coverage, you get less. Government in a nutshell...

[VaticanAssassin]

July and Merc would make beautiful babies.....

 

[mercury14]

July and Merc would make beautiful babies.....

Someone has baby on the brain.

 

[julybaby04]

Well that is what you just implied. Now you're backpedaling when I called you on it, pretending you didn't make that implication.



Currently scads of people die unnecessarily because of lack of preventative care, lack of access to general or specific medical care, and lack of access to drugs. The new system isn't perfect by any means but this problem is greatly reduced.



No the opposite is true. You're thinking of the old system.

The new system "decides" that virtually everyone gets medical care regardless as to their ability to be productive.

If you'd like some facts to illustrate anything I said in this post please let me know.

Let me just share this. I bet you are very well versed on the obamacare thing. I would imagine you have read it. I am sure you could cite many places in it that state that what people say is incorrect.

But, the problem with that is, there is GREAT mistrust of the federal government. They can say, print, pass and bill, or do anything they want. It does not always make it so. To believe that every single thing in obamacare will be exactly as they suggest it will be, is just not something I can do.

I do not trust the POTUS. I think he will say whatever he needs to to cover his rear. I do not trust Pelosi. She showed her true colors when she bought off (in a very public way) the female senator from LA.....to get a bill passed (may have even been the obamacare thing).
I dont trust most of the republican leadership. They love power and will do what it takes to keep what little they have now.

I think the government wastes excessively....and see the obamacare as a HUGE opportunity to continue to do the same. I have friends in Canada who share their experiences with their heathcare.....may not be everyone's experience there, but it has been theirs. They have told me, personally, that we should be very wary of a government controlled healthcare.......having to wait for almost 6 months to see a doctor is very difficult for them. They actually come to the US for healthcare, and pay out of pocket, because they said it was better here. They will be not able to do that any longer.

The health care I have now is perfect for us. To be able to continue with healthcare, because I do not go through an employer, I will have to use an exchange. I will not have the option to purchase on my own (I checked with my health carrier). So it will affect me. Financially, and even on a stress level in that I will have to do something that I am being forced to do.........and will receive less for it.

I know you like the new system....many do. That is great for you. But please understand that it is truly not great for everyone.....and there are those who were doing just fine who will now suffer........ so everything is fair for everyone. (again...and again....and again......let those who needed it, buy it. Didn't have to destroy things for everyone for this).

 

[julybaby04]

Well that is what you just implied. Now you're backpedaling when I called you on it, pretending you didn't make that implication.



Currently scads of people die unnecessarily because of lack of preventative care, lack of access to general or specific medical care, and lack of access to drugs. The new system isn't perfect by any means but this problem is greatly reduced. We will see, I guess).



No the opposite is true. You're thinking of the old system.

The new system "decides" that virtually everyone gets medical care regardless as to their ability to be productive. Who will be the one's who are not going to receive health care? Who decides this?

If you'd like some facts to illustrate anything I said in this post please let me know.

curious to the question in bold

 

[julybaby04]

July and Merc would make beautiful babies.....

Im too old to have babies....

 

[Sean]

.having to wait for almost 6 months to see a doctor is very difficult for them.

Bullshit. Utter lies and bullshit.


There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
—Proverbs 6:16–19

 

[julybaby04]

Bullshit. Utter lies and bullshit.


There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
—Proverbs 6:16–19

Sweetie....I doubt you know every single person in Canada. As I mentioned, that may be every person's in Canada's experience....may not be anyone else....but it was theirs.

 

[kbate]

Bullshit. Utter lies and bullshit.


There are six things that the LORD hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.
—Proverbs 6:16–19

Quoting God now? On Thorsday?

 

[Sean]

Sweetie....I doubt you know every single person in Canada. As I mentioned, that may be every person's in Canada's experience....may not be anyone else....but it was theirs.

You're a liar.

 

[Sean]

Quoting God now? On Thorsday?

The Devil can quote scripture for his own ends.

 

[julybaby04]

You're a liar.

.....feel very sorry for you.....

 

[Sean]

.....feel very sorry for you.....

And I feel nothing but contempt for you.

 

[miles]

Someone give MercJerk a shovel so he can dig a deeper hole for himself. What a self-important schmuck.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Someone give MercJerk a shovel so he can dig a deeper hole for himself. What a self-important schmuck.

July is married, Miles. No matter how much you suck on her toes, she's not gonna give you any cyberpussy.

Because if she did, she'd be sinnin'. And sinnin's against the Lord. That's why she's here, on a liberal-created, liberal-based, liberal-run erotica/porn board, because she's a good conservative Christian family wife what don't wanna sin against the Lord.

Yup.

 

[BotanyBoy]

For all the money we pay....why in the fuck do we not have UHC? nope...we insist on paying 2-6x market price for the most chicken scratch HC system we could manage when we SHOULD have the most over the top amazing HC system on the planet comparable to how fucking bad ass our military is.

That's the real mother fucking question....where it 2-2.6T a year going? The people are not getting it in the form of HC.....Not even remotely close.

 

[mercury14]

Let me just share this. I bet you are very well versed on the obamacare thing. I would imagine you have read it. I am sure you could cite many places in it that state that what people say is incorrect.

But, the problem with that is, there is GREAT mistrust of the federal government. They can say, print, pass and bill, or do anything they want. It does not always make it so. To believe that every single thing in obamacare will be exactly as they suggest it will be, is just not something I can do.

I do not trust the POTUS. I think he will say whatever he needs to to cover his rear. I do not trust Pelosi. She showed her true colors when she bought off (in a very public way) the female senator from LA.....to get a bill passed (may have even been the obamacare thing).
I dont trust most of the republican leadership. They love power and will do what it takes to keep what little they have now.

I understand that you lack faith in government and that you have reasons for it. And after over a decade with the USAF yeah Ive seen that there are some pretty big issues. The problem comes though when you come to believe sweeping generalizations that government can do nothing right. The fact is though that the government does a lot of things right and certain things even better than the private sector. Not most things but some things. Obamacare will do what it says because it's a law. If executors of the law do not follow the law they're subject to consequences.

I think the government wastes excessively....and see the obamacare as a HUGE opportunity to continue to do the same.

One of the strengths of Obamacare is that it has a relatively low potential for waste. Government waste tends to occur when government itself provides services or when fraud occurs (see: Medicare fraud enforcement). But subsidies for people to purchase their own care leave less potential for that - criminals would basically have to try to scam the private insurance company.

I have friends in Canada who share their experiences with their heathcare.....may not be everyone's experience there, but it has been theirs. They have told me, personally, that we should be very wary of a government controlled healthcare.......having to wait for almost 6 months to see a doctor is very difficult for them. They actually come to the US for healthcare, and pay out of pocket, because they said it was better here. They will be not able to do that any longer.

You have no rational reason to think Americans are going to wait 6 months to see a doctor. You're believing lies again. You have no rational reason to think Canadians wait 6 months either. Canadians spend 50% per unit of service as we do and have a longer life expectancy. If they're doing it while making folks wait half a year to get care, well I think that's a pretty neat trick!

The health care I have now is perfect for us. To be able to continue with healthcare, because I do not go through an employer, I will have to use an exchange. I will not have the option to purchase on my own (I checked with my health carrier). So it will affect me. Financially, and even on a stress level in that I will have to do something that I am being forced to do.........and will receive less for it.

The law requires you to have health insurance through any number of means. It does not force you to go to an exchange. There's no ban on insurance companies selling you an individual plan. In fact that's how (usually wealthy) folks who want really swank insurance plans will be getting them: through individual purchases that have nothing to do with exchanges.

What your insurance company may have told you was that they're not willing to provide your current plan through an exchange. Maybe they have reasons for not wanting to make your plan available on an exchange and that's their prerogative.

You realize that on an exchange you still purchase your own coverage, right? So what you're saying about not being allowed to purchase your own doesn't make sense.

I know you like the new system....many do. That is great for you. But please understand that it is truly not great for everyone.....and there are those who were doing just fine who will now suffer........ so everything is fair for everyone. (again...and again....and again......let those who needed it, buy it. Didn't have to destroy things for everyone for this).

I don't particularly like it but it's much better than what we had. Your family is going to benefit from it though. In fact, families in your situation will benefit more than any other group other than folks in the Medicaid expansion range.

May I ask what health insurance company you use?

 

[mercury14]

curious to the question in bold... Who will be the one's who are not going to receive health care? Who decides this?

Nobody decides who isn't going to get health care coverage, the elements behind it are mostly codified. Here are some of the folks who won't get coverage:

1) People who choose not to be insured and pay the tax.

2) People who have some small amount of income and fall just outside the Medicaid range but cannot afford to pay for exchange-subsidized insurance and can prove it. They can get a temporary waiver until their income increases and not have to pay the tax or be covered.


Would you like me to tell you how people end up without coverage in the old system?

 

[julybaby04]

I understand that you lack faith in government and that you have reasons for it. And after over a decade with the USAF yeah Ive seen that there are some pretty big issues. The problem comes though when you come to believe sweeping generalizations that government can do nothing right. The fact is though that the government does a lot of things right and certain things even better than the private sector. Not most things but some things. Obamacare will do what it says because it's a law. If executors of the law do not follow the law they're subject to consequences.




One of the strengths of Obamacare is that it has a relatively low potential for waste. Government waste tends to occur when government itself provides services or when fraud occurs (see: Medicare fraud enforcement). But subsidies for people to purchase their own care leave less potential for that - criminals would basically have to try to scam the private insurance company.



You have no rational reason to think Americans are going to wait 6 months to see a doctor. You're believing lies again. You have no rational reason to think Canadians wait 6 months either. Canadians spend 50% per unit of service as we do and have a longer life expectancy. If they're doing it while making folks wait half a year to get care, well I think that's a pretty neat trick!




The law requires you to have health insurance through any number of means. It does not force you to go to an exchange. There's no ban on insurance companies selling you an individual plan. In fact that's how (usually wealthy) folks who want really swank insurance plans will be getting them: through individual purchases that have nothing to do with exchanges.

What your insurance company may have told you was that they're not willing to provide your current plan through an exchange. Maybe they have reasons for not wanting to make your plan available on an exchange and that's their prerogative.

You realize that on an exchange you still purchase your own coverage, right? So what you're saying about not being allowed to purchase your own doesn't make sense.



I don't particularly like it but it's much better than what we had. Your family is going to benefit from it though. In fact, families in your situation will benefit more than any other group other than folks in the Medicaid expansion range.

May I ask what health insurance company you use?

...just for the record......thank you for your service!

 

[badbabysitter]

I think the government wastes excessively....and see the obamacare as a HUGE opportunity to continue to do the same. I have friends in Canada who share their experiences with their heathcare.....may not be everyone's experience there, but it has been theirs. They have told me, personally, that we should be very wary of a government controlled healthcare.......having to wait for almost 6 months to see a doctor is very difficult for them. They actually come to the US for healthcare, and pay out of pocket, because they said it was better here. They will be not able to receive less for it.

Bullshit

How would I know?

I'm a Canadian..living in Canada.. I've never met a Canadian who has had to wait 6 months for a doctor.

Ever.

In my life.

The only time I hear about these Canadians waiting for six months is when Americans are discussing their Canadian friends

because these same Americans dont realize that Canadians can opt out of universal healthcare and pay their own way.. we even have medical insurance companies up here... of course these " Canadian friends" seem blissfully unaware of this

you're spouting meme's regurtitated on the internet

 

[mercury14]

The only time I hear about these Canadians waiting for six months is when Americans are discussing their Canadian friends.

A lot of it is distorted. Canada is a vast place and there are many stretches of it with few people and consequently few specialists. So if you need a pediatric orthopedist in rural Alberta there might only be one of them so the wait time could be a while. It's like that in Montana and Alaska as well.

I live in an American city with around a million people and it took me close to two months to get a new patient visit for dermatology. Most of the ones on my insurance panel weren't even taking new patients so I had to settle for a long wait.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

WhoSane Obama, DA COLORED, has turned normal "people".....INSANE

MAGIC!

Remember, zip is totally bipartisan.

In the past, he has voted for TWO RINOs for Sister Sarah...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Bullshit

How would I know?

I'm a Canadian..living in Canada.. I've never met a Canadian who has had to wait 6 months for a doctor.

Ever.

In my life.

The only time I hear about these Canadians waiting for six months is when Americans are discussing their Canadian friends

because these same Americans dont realize that Canadians can opt out of universal healthcare and pay their own way.. we even have medical insurance companies up here... of course these " Canadian friends" seem blissfully unaware of this

you're spouting meme's regurtitated on the internet

Is seeing a doctor exactly the same as getting treated?

Or is it possible that you do not really ask every Canadian you meet about their medical affairs...

 

[mercury14]

Is seeing a doctor exactly the same as getting treated?

Or is it possible that you do not really ask every Canadian you meet about their medical affairs...

The conservatives here can make all the sweeping claims they want because Julybaby has a single anecdote. And nobody can refute those claims without proving conducting 34 million patient interviews.

 

[Ishmael]

Is seeing a doctor exactly the same as getting treated?

Or is it possible that you do not really ask every Canadian you meet about their medical affairs...

Ahhh, there's the rub. In BC the wait time for an MRI after it's been ordered by a specialist is 12-18 months (shorter waits in the eastern provinces). And the average wait time to see a specialist after being referred by the GP is a little over 18 weeks. (Again, shorter waits in eastern provinces, longer waits in the western.)

Canada uses a 'triage' panel to determine your place on the waiting list for an MRI (or any other) procedure. That 'panel' determines whether it is 'critical' or elective and those that fall into the elective category can expect waits in excess of 3 years for a MRI.

If the results of the MRI indicate that a surgical procedure is required it's back to the triage panel to determine where you fall on the waiting list for surgery.

So far the research that I've done shows that wait times are more related to where one lives in Canada. None of the statistics that were gathered for the various reports reveal any data regarding wait times and age. ie. do older patients suffer longer wait times than the younger? That is not to say that the Canadian system discriminates, or doesn't for that matter, merely that there is NO age related breakdown of the wait times for any given procedure vs age of the patient.

Ishmael

 

[mercury14]

Ahhh, there's the rub. In BC the wait time for an MRI after it's been ordered by a specialist is 12-18 months (shorter waits in the eastern provinces). And the average wait time to see a specialist after being referred by the GP is a little over 18 weeks. (Again, shorter waits in eastern provinces, longer waits in the western.)

[citation needed]


Regarding the triage bit, the USA has those as well throughout its medical system.