Michigan, Workers must not have a choice! Vote Union

[SgtSpiderMan]

Don't be silly. The right to life trumps the right to a job in the minds of those who are still sane.

Does that same right to life apply to unarmed black teenagers minding their own business?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Their freedom of choice.

They were forced to go in an apply at a union shop by whom exactly?

 

[jeninflorida]

They were forced to go in an apply at a union shop by whom exactly?

were you dropped on your head as a baby? can you find someone to drop you on your head tonight?

dipshit, many jobs in MI one can only get by being in the terrorist group known as "Union"

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

were you dropped on your head as a baby? can you find someone to drop you on your head tonight?

dipshit, many jobs in MI one can only get by being in the terrorist group known as "Union"

So you agree that not ALL jobs in the Michigan area are like that. Hence the choice.

 

[jeninflorida]

So you agree that not ALL jobs in the Michigan area are like that. Hence the choice.

I have no fucking idea but you can NOT get a job at FORD, GM and most supermarkets unless you are a communist union party member

 

[Liar]

Their freedom of choice.

Why can't someone answer this very simple question:

Why were Michigan's cops and firefighters denied freedom?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Does that same right to life apply to unarmed black teenagers minding their own business?

That would depend on what their business is. Which unarmed teenagers do you have in mind? There have been many teenagers of all races who were killed while doing nothing wrong. The victims at Columbine come to mind, but there have been many others.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Well, duh, If a person has the freedom to kill or rape anybody he or she wants to, that would obviously be injurious to the community where that person lives. Therefore, no person has such a freedom, unless very well connected politically. But that's not what this is about. This is about an indiidual having the freedom to join an organization or refuse to join it or support it. If people believe the organization does not benefit them, they should not have to join. If people feel an organization will be acting contrary to those people's interests, they should not be compelled to support it.

However, if people believe they will benefit from membersip in the organization, they will have the freedom to join it. That part hasn't changed. Now, unions will have to show they will benefit their members, rather than themselves.

You don't even get to go that far. You don't get a choice about being a tax payer (well I guess you could leave the country) because you benefit from being part of the community. A union is functionally no different from being a tax payer in the company you chose to work for. Don't like it? GTFO.

If you gave people the choice they'd all or at least most of them would opt out. Just like everybody would opt out of paying taxes, the vast majority of people would opt out of a draft and certainly would sign up at age 18 just in case it became an issue. You're part of a community, deal with it.

As for your rape issue, lets step back a few notches. We believe in the fundamental right to own arms. Yet we don't even let our GOVERNMENT have certain weapons. Because at some point common sense kicks in.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You don't even get to go that far. You don't get a choice about being a tax payer (well I guess you could leave the country) because you benefit from being part of the community. A union is functionally no different from being a tax payer in the company you chose to work for. Don't like it? GTFO.

If you gave people the choice they'd all or at least most of them would opt out. Just like everybody would opt out of paying taxes, the vast majority of people would opt out of a draft and certainly would sign up at age 18 just in case it became an issue. You're part of a community, deal with it.

As for your rape issue, lets step back a few notches. We believe in the fundamental right to own arms. Yet we don't even let our GOVERNMENT have certain weapons. Because at some point common sense kicks in.

There are ways to avoid paying taxes. If you don't believe me, ask Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of General Electric and good friend of The Big O. He keeps his very pofitable corporation from paying taxes.

If a union is available and people believe it is in their best interests, they will join it. If they do not believe it is in their best interests, they will decline. Perhaps the new law will make the union bosses more responsive to their members and less concerned with their own agendas.

A union is nothing like a community. All people in the USA are members of several communities - a municipality, a county by whatever name it is known, a state and a nation. It's sort of lke being a mamber of the human race; you have to be one, whether you like it or not.

 

[Sean Renaud]

There are ways to avoid paying taxes. If you don't believe me, ask Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of General Electric and good friend of The Big O. He keeps his very pofitable corporation from paying taxes.

If a union is available and people believe it is in their best interests, they will join it. If they do not believe it is in their best interests, they will decline. Perhaps the new law will make the union bosses more responsive to their members and less concerned with their own agendas.

A union is nothing like a community. All people in the USA are members of several communities - a municipality, a county by whatever name it is known, a state and a nation. It's sort of lke being a mamber of the human race; you have to be one, whether you like it or not.

Yes there are ways to avoid paying taxes. It's not perfect but it works more often than not.

More likely the new law will do exactly what its designed to do, end the unions as bosses fire people for so much as thinking about joining a union. Not to mention people cannot be trusted to act in their own self interest certainly not when it involves long term thinking and not immediate self gratification. They simply aren't.

You failed to prove unions aren't a community, you simply listed off several other communities.

 

[jeninflorida]

There are ways to avoid paying taxes. If you don't believe me, ask Jeffrey Immelt, the CEO of General Electric and good friend of The Big O. He keeps his very pofitable corporation from paying taxes.

If a union is available and people believe it is in their best interests, they will join it. If they do not believe it is in their best interests, they will decline. Perhaps the new law will make the union bosses more responsive to their members and less concerned with their own agendas.

A union is nothing like a community. All people in the USA are members of several communities - a municipality, a county by whatever name it is known, a state and a nation. It's sort of lke being a mamber of the human race; you have to be one, whether you like it or not.

we give uncle obama $10 and uncle obama will spend $15
we just can't trust the obama

 

[jeninflorida]

so we all agree, workers do not have the right to chose!

 

[Boxlicker101]

Yes there are ways to avoid paying taxes. It's not perfect but it works more often than not.

More likely the new law will do exactly what its designed to do, end the unions as bosses fire people for so much as thinking about joining a union. Not to mention people cannot be trusted to act in their own self interest certainly not when it involves long term thinking and not immediate self gratification. They simply aren't.

You failed to prove unions aren't a community, you simply listed off several other communities.

The law will not end unions, althugh it will diminish their power, which is one of the reasons the law was passed. They have long been a major pressure group, and that will continuem, but not to such an extreme degree, because the union bosses will be held more accountable. If they want to keep their membership, the unions will need to actually do something for the members.

Like most liberals, you seem quite elitest. In other words, you consider yourself to be better than the hoi polloi and, therefore, required to guide them. The part of your comment I darkened proves that.

As for proving that unions are not a community, it is almost impossible to prove a negative. Therefore, when somebody makes a positive statement, as you did, it is incumbent on that person to prove it, which you have not done.

 

[Wyldfire]

I kind of dig the right to work thing...... Kind of gives an employer the right to run his company like he wants to..... You know, the way this country was founded? Not with an oppressive government telling him how to do his business?

 

[Sean Renaud]

The law will not end unions, althugh it will diminish their power, which is one of the reasons the law was passed. They have long been a major pressure group, and that will continuem, but not to such an extreme degree, because the union bosses will be held more accountable. If they want to keep their membership, the unions will need to actually do something for the members.

Like most liberals, you seem quite elitest. In other words, you consider yourself to be better than the hoi polloi and, therefore, required to guide them. The part of your comment I darkened proves that.

As for proving that unions are not a community, it is almost impossible to prove a negative. Therefore, when somebody makes a positive statement, as you did, it is incumbent on that person to prove it, which you have not done.

The law will most likely end unions, or at least any semblance of power within the union. The idea that employers are going to put up with unions when they can easily enough eliminate them is laughable.

I don't believe I'm in the elite. I believe history has shown time and time and time again that people do not make long term plans. We have social security and medicare because the vast majority of Americans were not saving enough to retire on. I can only imagine that must be truer now as pensions have all but vanished from the private sector than it was eighty years ago when the system was put into place. That's just a simple fact. Same goes for the way we handle health care, as poorly as we do it, we don't let people die in the streets because they didn't happen to plan ahead for cancer or pnemonia. Those aren't opinions, those are facts. People as a whole either can't or don't make long term plans. If it makes me elite that I can observe the world and when I see the same thing happening over and over and over again I come to the conclusion that this is the rule and not the exception then I guess I am in the elite. I'm fairly certain that's not the case though.

You apparently don't know what proving a negative means. You made a claim it's technically your job to provide proof. Anyway I'm in a good mood so I'll do your homework.

Community as defined by Mirriam-webster.
1
: a unified body of individuals: as
a : state, commonwealth
b : the people with common interests living in a particular area; broadly : the area itself <the problems of a large community>
c : an interacting population of various kinds of individuals (as species) in a common location
d : a group of people with a common characteristic or interest living together within a larger society <a community of retired persons>
e : a group linked by a common policy
f : a body of persons or nations having a common history or common social, economic, and political interests <the international community>
g : a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered through a larger society <the academic community>

A union fits several of these definitions because it is in fact a community.

 

[PoppingTom]

Why can't someone answer this very simple question:

Why were Michigan's cops and firefighters denied freedom?

Real freedom means : not working, not getting money from somebody, not belonging to a community.

I think every MI cop and firefighter got that freedom.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I kind of dig the right to work thing...... Kind of gives an employer the right to run his company like he wants to..... You know, the way this country was founded? Not with an oppressive government telling him how to do his business?

Nothing stops a business from running exactly as they wish. The only time government passes laws restricting what a business can do is when businesses request they do.

 

[Wyldfire]

Nothing stops a business from running exactly as they wish. The only time government passes laws restricting what a business can do is when businesses request they do.

Rigghhhhttttt...... Businesses asked for affirmative action...... Suuuurrrrreeee they did....

No employer wants to be told they can't hire and fire as they see fit....

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Rigghhhhttttt...... Businesses asked for affirmative action...... Suuuurrrrreeee they did....

No employer wants to be told they can't hire and fire as they see fit....

There is no law that prevents any private business in the US from hiring exactly who they want.

If there is please cite it.

 

[Wyldfire]

There is no law that prevents any private business in the US from hiring exactly who they want.

If there is please cite it.

LMAO! You really are a prig for law aren't you? How many businesses are going to go against a presidential executive order? Really? JFreakingFK makes an executive order? Close enough to a law really. Oh, but wait, by the exact letter it's not a law so you win again. Your perfect little world is still intact sarge.....

You want me to go on to how Johnson and Nixon further enforced this with further executive orders?

Goddess bless executive orders..... What a president does when he doesn't think he can get a law through.....

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

LMAO! You really are a prig for law aren't you? How many businesses are going to go against a presidential executive order? Really? JFreakingFK makes an executive order? Close enough to a law really. Oh, but wait, by the exact letter it's not a law so you win again. Your perfect little world is still intact sarge.....

Show me the executive order JFK made that affected private businesses. I'll be waiting.

 

[Wyldfire]

Show me the executive order JFK made that affected private businesses. I'll be waiting.

LMAO! I told you you won Lawyerboy.... Face it though, this is an arguement made by soimeone that doesn't really understand how this society works.... If it's not a law then it's not true huh?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

LMAO! I told you you won Lawyerboy.... Face it though, this is an arguement made by soimeone that doesn't really understand how this society works.... If it's not a law then it's not true huh?

You made that claim. I never did.

 

[Wyldfire]

You made that claim. I never did.

Umm really? You're the one demanding we show where Affirmative action is a law.... You're the one demanding we show how an executive order holds water. Face it Bucky, you called it, I brought it, and you're still holding on to your CNN/Liberal media attitude.......

I'm done here. You're not intelligent enough for me to continue to waste time on.... Bye bye Sarge...

 

[Wyldfire]

And Sarge? Really? A Demon hunter? I should have read your profile before wasting time on you.....