Michigan, Workers must not have a choice! Vote Union

[chillywilly2]

You advocate for policies that lead to lower wages and lessened health care and retirement benefits.

Sounds like she is for companies not having to pay health care benefits.


So I guess that leaves the Government to handle it. Lets hear it for Obamacare

 

[jeninflorida]

You advocate for policies that lead to lower wages and lessened health care and retirement benefits.

Please, again this is your bias speaking. You are not seeing the forest through the trees

 

[CaptainKirk]

Okay, I've read enough.

My turn...

The proper response is that I always want to make just as much money as the worst worker on my crew because recognizing excellence with bonus pay is discrimination.

Really?

You want to tell us about your vast experience with unions?

I've been in more than one.

So have I, and the Sarge is right: no union has held this position... ever!

Union says it is not the result, but the intention of the worker.

Management cannot say boo. When I was steward, they had to come to me with any complaints about an individual worker at which point my job was to tell them that I would look into it which meant that I was going to ignore them and send a report to the union saying that management was harassing my "expert" crew...

Or they are a volume-based, low education level union, lord knows that was what my gig was; it was unionized alright, but the pay still sucked. The only benefit was a job that was immune to firing.

We spent a lot of time on the fourth floor getting stoned...

If management left their offices, we began filing safety grievances.

You would see them on Christmas for your niggardly bonus, and that was about it.

Well, I guess that made you a piss poor Union steward, didn't it? Not to mention hypocritical, considering you were one of those 'bad Union people' you and the rest of your cadre constantly complain about.

show me where being in a union guarantees that you make "more" money!

Where the Hell are you getting your information from? No Union guarantees this.

Should a worker have the right to refuse to join a union and still retain the benifits of the work the union has done?

ALL the work the union has done, not only the latest round of collective bargaining for wages and benefits.

Right-to-work would be fair, if those who don't contribute to the union don't get to enjoy, for instance, the workplace safety standards that the union lobbied for and won. No due? No helmet.

BINGO!

This is exactly what I, and others in our local, are pissed about. Workers are already guaranteed safety standard practices, that's Federal law now. But if they start getting pissed on by their employer for no good reason other than 'because we can', then those who don't join the Union shouldn't expect Union representation. No pay? No play. Period.

The anti-Union folks keep saying that regulations should protect workers from any type harm or foul; that was the main reason the Union was created. Do you guys honestly believe that companies won't pick up those unfair practices again once the Unions are gone, just because some government regs say so? Big business and mega-corporations practically own the government; you (the RW) of all people should know that!

"Government regulations will keep businesses in line and keep workers safe."

Oh, really? Tell that to the former employees of Enron who lost their jobs, benefits, and pensions. Tell that to the guys who got killed, and their families, when that oil rig exploded and dumped crude into the Gulf and paralyzed the fishing and tourist industries. How about just looking back five years and tell me how Wall Street did, and how the Union was at fault, when they tanked the economy by staying within the regulations.

You don't trust the government to run a national health care plan, but you do trust them to keep big business in check? Yeah, the government did a bang-up job keeping an eye on those guys the last time, eh? ...and look what happened.

Some folks have principles and believe in individual merit not the mediocre elevating "collective."

Let me tell you something, Sunshine...

I started working when I was 17, stocking grocery shelves on the graveyard shift for Meijer's supermarkets (this was before they opened 24 hours), and started at $2.25 an hour.

Since then, every job after that (running a bookstore- $4.35, cashier- $5.50, working as a DJ in a night club- $6.65, then driving a forklift for the above mentioned market) has given me a little more over the years. The last job I had (forklift driving) paid me $14.10 an hour after starting at $8.25 and working there for ten years.

A week after I got that last pay raise, General Motors called me and started my orientation and training for a job on the assembly line, starting at $15.65 an hour. I now earn $28.71 an hour after working in sweltering hot/frigid cold factories for going on thirteen years.

I worked my ass off to get where I am now, and I did it the hard way: through hard work and sweat for the past thirty-two fucking years! And you've got the nerve to tell me I didn't get there on my own merit?

All the people who complain and moan about Union workers, especially auto workers, are just jealous that I managed to nail down a job (after literally decades of hard work and climbing the ladder) with great pay, good benefits, and (hopefully) a pension at the end of it. And I did it all without a college degree... and you didn't! Tough tits! You would all jump at the chance for a job like mine if the chips were down, and I know you know it!

Given the choice of being an asshole about it and doing whatever it takes to make sure my family's provided for... or caving in to people like you and just 'settling for less' just to satisfy your sense of 'status quo'... I'm going to be an asshole about it!

...and if it came right down to it, given the same circumstances... so would you!

And I'd bet you clowns would be whistling a different tune if it was your paycheck, benefits, and pensions on the line! So put a sock in it!

 

[jeninflorida]

Sounds like she is for companies not having to pay health care benefits.


So I guess that leaves the Government to handle it. Lets hear it for Obamacare

here is my issue with the union's....not everyone is worth $20/hr or $100/hr. The market needs to set the price not some union asshat

companies will use bennies as gold handcuffs to keep key workers

 

[QueenLevitra]

Okay, I've read enough.

My turn...





So have I, and the Sarge is right: no union has held this position... ever!





Well, I guess that made you a piss poor Union steward, didn't it? Not to mention hypocritical, considering you were one of those 'bad Union people' you and the rest of your cadre constantly complain about.



Where the Hell are you getting your information from? No Union guarantees this.



BINGO!

This is exactly what I, and others in our local, are pissed about. Workers are already guaranteed safety standard practices, that's Federal law now. But if they start getting pissed on by their employer for no good reason other than 'because we can', then those who don't join the Union shouldn't expect Union representation. No pay? No play. Period.

The anti-Union folks keep saying that regulations should protect workers from any type harm or foul; that was the main reason the Union was created. Do you guys honestly believe that companies won't pick up those unfair practices again once the Unions are gone, just because some government regs say so? Big business and mega-corporations practically own the government; you (the RW) of all people should know that!

"Government regulations will keep businesses in line and keep workers safe."

Oh, really? Tell that to the former employees of Enron who lost their jobs, benefits, and pensions. Tell that to the guys who got killed, and their families, when that oil rig exploded and dumped crude into the Gulf and paralyzed the fishing and tourist industries. How about just looking back five years and tell me how Wall Street did, and how the Union was at fault, when they tanked the economy by staying within the regulations.

You don't trust the government to run a national health care plan, but you do trust them to keep big business in check? Yeah, the government did a bang-up job keeping an eye on those guys the last time, eh? ...and look what happened.



Let me tell you something, Sunshine...

I started working when I was 17, stocking grocery shelves on the graveyard shift for Meijer's supermarkets (this was before they opened 24 hours), and started at $2.25 an hour.

Since then, every job after that (running a bookstore- $4.35, cashier- $5.50, working as a DJ in a night club- $6.65, then driving a forklift for the above mentioned market) has given me a little more over the years. The last job I had (forklift driving) paid me $14.10 an hour after starting at $8.25 and working there for ten years.

A week after I got that last pay raise, General Motors called me and started my orientation and training for a job on the assembly line, starting at $15.65 an hour. I now earn $28.71 an hour after working in sweltering hot/frigid cold factories for going on thirteen years.

I worked my ass off to get where I am now, and I did it the hard way: through hard work and sweat for the past thirty-two fucking years! And you've got the nerve to tell me I didn't get there on my own merit?

All the people who complain and moan about Union workers, especially auto workers, are just jealous that I managed to nail down a job (after literally decades of hard work and climbing the ladder) with great pay, good benefits, and (hopefully) a pension at the end of it. And I did it all without a college degree... and you didn't! Tough tits! You would all jump at the chance for a job like mine if the chips were down, and I know you know it!

Given the choice of being an asshole about it and doing whatever it takes to make sure my family's provided for... or caving in to people like you and just 'settling for less' just to satisfy your sense of 'status quo'... I'm going to be an asshole about it!

...and if it came right down to it, given the same circumstances... so would you!

And I'd bet you clowns would be whistling a different tune if it was your paycheck, benefits, and pensions on the line! So put a sock in it!

Extremely well said, sir.

I personally know atleast 20 people marching in Lansing right now. While I couldn't be there with them I am with them in spirit.

 

[chillywilly2]

here is my issue with the union's....not everyone is worth $20/hr or $100/hr. The market needs to set the price not some union asshat

companies will use bennies as gold handcuffs to keep key workers

You don't know what you are talking about Jenn.

I don't know of many union members that get $100.00 per hour for one thing.

Generally if a union negotiates a wage and benefit package with a company, the workers are worth it. I won't say that for government unions but in the private sector they are.

You just like to complain about unions because you want to be able to control and use single people. When they stand up against you as a group you lose some control. You are forced to treat them fairly instead of as slaves.

 

[koalabear]

Collective bargaining states have higher wages and lower unemployment. That's nice that you have a theory but it's squashed by reality just like the rest of your theories.

How's that worked out for Detroit, MORON.

 

[chillywilly2]

How's that worked out for Detroit, MORON.

I don't count auto workers unions.

Both the companies and the unions are so full of greed they barely count as part of the human race.

Fucking car dealers will cheat you as soon as look at you

 

[PoppingTom]

It's sometimes funny how - mostly American - people bitching about unions at all. I'ts just like bitching about politicians or counsels at all. The funny thing is: if you need them, you're happy to have them, but if they got YOU.....off course, we all must get rid of them.

United we-must-get-rid-of-everything of America......

 

[koalabear]

I don't count auto workers unions.

Both the companies and the unions are so full of greed they barely count as part of the human race.

Fucking car dealers will cheat you as soon as look at you

MERC! Is that you!

 

[chillywilly2]

MERC! Is that you!

No, its not.
I just see unions having a place.

Most companies would put profits ahead of workers any day.
Something has to keep them under control.
Be it the union already in place, or the threat of one forming if they don't treat people properly.

Look at nthe current fiasco here.

The government is in debt, the teachers will be a scapegoat.

The government has taken wages and benefits from teachers, said here is your contract, you will take it because we are passing a LAW that says you have to take it and can't strike for 4 years...done

What kind of shit is that

 

[jeninflorida]

You don't know what you are talking about Jenn.

I don't know of many union members that get $100.00 per hour for one thing.

Generally if a union negotiates a wage and benefit package with a company, the workers are worth it. I won't say that for government unions but in the private sector they are.

You just like to complain about unions because you want to be able to control and use single people. When they stand up against you as a group you lose some control. You are forced to treat them fairly instead of as slaves.

Please, look at Ford and GM and most of those workers are not worth what they demand. However, companies are too afraid of a strike...

Teachers, many in Chicago, NJ, NYC are WAY way over paind

 

[koalabear]

No, its not.
I just see unions having a place.

Most companies would put profits ahead of workers any day.
Something has to keep them under control.
Be it the union already in place, or the threat of one forming if they don't treat people properly.

All the foreign car company employees in Indiana seem perfectly happy to be non-union. None of them are starving either.

 

[jeninflorida]

No, its not.
I just see unions having a place.

Most companies would put profits ahead of workers any day.
Something has to keep them under control.
Be it the union already in place, or the threat of one forming if they don't treat people properly.

union's put the union first, then workers, then the company

the union mentality is that they have no issues killing a company if they can't get what they want.

care for a twinkie? oh wait

 

[chillywilly2]

Please, look at Ford and GM and most of those workers are not worth what they demand. However, companies are too afraid of a strike...

Teachers, many in Chicago, NJ, NYC are WAY way over paind

The companies are afraid of a strike because it will cut into profits more than a couple bucks an hour will

 

[CaptainKirk]

Extremely well said, sir.

I personally know at least 20 people marching in Lansing right now. While I couldn't be there with them I am with them in spirit.

Thank you, my dear.

I was there. I got back a couple hours ago, I could only stay for a short time; I have to work tonight (night shift, so I have to get some sleep).

Over 10,000 people showed up, and most are still there. The Capitol building is full to capacity. And some knuckleheads tore down a 'Right to Work' supporters' tent. There's always got to be at least one or two asshats in the crowd that make the rest of us look bad. As if we don't have enough bad publicity as it is.

I only got a glimpse, but I didn't recognize them. I don't know if they were with the UAW or not. I'd like to think they weren't, but you never know; I'm not a mind reader and don't know what everyone's up to at any given moment.

I, and my group, was on my (our) best behavior. We can be forceful, but we're not animals, contrary to popular belief.

 

[chillywilly2]

All the foreign car company employees in Indiana seem perfectly happy to be non-union. None of them are starving either.

Yup, they are paid just about the same as the union companies and they don't have to pay dues...whats not to be happy about.

But get rid of all the union companies and outlaw unions and see where their wages go

 

[koalabear]

Yup, they are paid just about the same as the union companies and they don't have to pay dues...whats not to be happy about.

But get rid of all the union companies and outlaw unions and see where their wages go

There would be no change.

 

[chillywilly2]

union's put the union first, then workers, then the company

the union mentality is that they have no issues killing a company if they can't get what they want.

care for a twinkie? oh wait

Umm, little lady, the people are the union...if they don't like what is going on they can run for leadership and run the union the way they see fit

 

[chillywilly2]

There would be no change.

Right, get rid of cops and the crime rate won't go up

 

[koalabear]

Right, get rid of cops and the crime rate won't go up

You think the unions are cops.

 

[chillywilly2]

You think the unions are cops.

In this scenario, if not them, then who

 

[koalabear]

In this scenario, if not them, then who

I'm union, have been going on 40 years. Unions are far from cops these days.

 

[CaptainKirk]

Please, look at Ford and GM and most of those workers are not worth what they demand. However, companies are too afraid of a strike...

Teachers, many in Chicago, NJ, NYC are WAY way over paind

Oh, really? And you would know this... how, exactly?

You've never even set foot inside an auto factory, let alone worked in one.

$100 an hour? No blue collar worker, Union or not, on this entire planet makes that kind of money. Quit exaggerating; you're not impressing anyone with your bullshit.

 

[PoppingTom]

Please, look at Ford and GM and most of those workers are not worth what they demand.

It's not you who decides this.

And every one of them is 100$ per hour more worth than you, because they're WORKING !