Michigan, Workers must not have a choice! Vote Union

[mercury14]

Well, thanks for the complete discounting then, and so much for you as well.

Fine dude. Your cabinets suck because union workers make sucky cabinets and if you'd only gone with non-union cabinetfolk you'd be sitting pretty.

 

[jeninflorida]

No union guarantees this.

Why are the RWingers here spamming straw man arguments?

you are using "straw man" crap

Sorry, but I do not see any value in or with the union

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

you are using "straw man" crap

Sorry, but I do not see any value in or with the union

You also see no value in getting a job or providing for yourself.

 

[jeninflorida]

You also see no value in getting a job or providing for yourself.

oh now, we all know that you need to be in a union as you could never survive in the open world where competition lives

 

[mercury14]

you are using "straw man" crap

Sorry, but I do not see any value in or with the union

Median wages in Right-to-Work states are -9.4% to -11.4% lower than in union states. Furthermore Right to Work states have lower rates of workers getting health care and decent retirement plans.

Again, if you were in one of these jobs and needed to support your kids and family would you choose to have a job that compensates you better or one that's much worse?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

You're still butt-hurt that they made your horse surrender, aren't you?

They could have let me go up to KANSAS with him instead of wallowing around in Misery on foot...

:sniff:



Did I not tell you that he is no more interested in civli discourse than any of the others, Throb, U_D, zip, KO, Petey? All they want is to abide by bromide and shout down the enemies of the tribe so that theirs are the only voices of reason that can be heard; they are always right, you are always wrong, and as Candi assured me, my life experience means nothing because it says otherwise in his "history books." I have to be lying or delusional because the history of the US begins with white slavers creating laws for them and their descendants and the world has gone to shit since then save for the lonely Monastic Cluniac fortress outposts of the Union Label...

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Or they are a volume-based, low education level union, lord knows that was what my gig was; it was unionized alright, but the pay still sucked. The only benefit was a job that was immune to firing.

We spent a lot of time on the fourth floor getting stoned...

If management left their offices, we began filing safety grievances.

You would see them on Christmas for your niggardly bonus, and that was about it.

I can't say much about whether this product would be better if it were produced in a non-union shop or not, since it is being used because it's the . . . wait for it . . . low bid.


Meanwhile, I am in my neither fish nor fowl position of providing labor as a biznessman, which I think is more a symptom of the times.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

you are using "straw man" crap

Sorry, but I do not see any value in or with the union

Yeah, even those of us involved with union activities are wrong.

We must be lying. Merc senses that because, well, we have caught him lying to provide the sophist argument of false expert.

 

[Wat_Tyler]

Fine dude. Your cabinets suck because union workers make sucky cabinets and if you'd only gone with non-union cabinetfolk you'd be sitting pretty.

Which is an extrapolation I did not make. Actually, because of the label "union-made", I would have expected components that at least fit.

 

[kbate]

The right to work law effectively prevents unions from securing meaningful labor agreements, thus unions become irrelevant. Nothing more than flaccid political lobbying groups. Workers have the right to not join unions by not taking union jobs.

When these laws are put into place, wages plummet. Retirement and medical benefits wither. America ends up with fewer good jobs, consumers spend less, and the greater economy suffers. But the few folks at the top of the pyramid? Well they make out like bandits, don't they?

Not taking union jobs? I didn't think the Union owned GM or Ford or the public school system or Boeing. I thought ordinary Americans (and others) through their retirement plans, 401k plans and their investment accounts owned these companies. I'm shocked to learn that they are actually "union owned".

What these laws do is force the union to become relevant again rather than exercise power without responsibility. If workers are oppressed, they will join and empower a union, if they are treated well they will ignore the unions.

How is that bad? Why do you hate freedom of choice?

I can guess. Perhaps it is because Unions empower Democrats that you care so deeply about keeping union membership mandatory. If unions spread their money evenly about the parties, you wouldn't care that they might be losing their mandatory dues.

 

[mercury14]

Yeah, even those of us involved with union activities are wrong.

We must be lying. Merc senses that because, well, we have caught him lying to provide the sophist argument of false expert.

I don't think there's anything wrong about your experience and I have no reason to question it. But your fallacious generalizing means your argument lacks a rational basis.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I can't say much about whether this product would be better if it were produced in a non-union shop or not, since it is being used because it's the . . . wait for it . . . low bid.


Meanwhile, I am in my neither fish nor fowl position of providing labor as a biznessman, which I think is more a symptom of the times.

That is about the only place where you can get quality control because unions are not about quality control but job security and wage negotiations.

I tell you honestly, I do not think I live far enough from Callaway having been in the nuclear construction union...

 

[Wat_Tyler]

http://xxxbunker.com/big_tit_porn_star_getting_fucked_hardcore.jpg

Is that my new labor agreement?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Not taking union jobs? I didn't think the Union owned GM or Ford or the public school system or Boeing. I thought ordinary Americans (and others) through their retirement plans, 401k plans and their investment accounts owned these companies. I'm shocked to learn that they are actually "union owned".

What these laws do is force the union to become relevant again rather than exercise power without responsibility. If workers are oppressed, they will join and empower a union, if they are treated well they will ignore the unions.

How is that bad? Why do you hate freedom of choice?

I can guess. Perhaps it is because Unions empower Democrats that you care so deeply about keeping union membership mandatory. If unions spread their money evenly about the parties, you wouldn't care that they might be losing their mandatory dues.

As usual, you are right on the money.

Merc sensed a threat to the tribe from the white man...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

http://xxxbunker.com/big_tit_porn_star_getting_fucked_hardcore.jpg

Is that my new labor agreement?

lol... $.07 over three years???

 

[mercury14]

Not taking union jobs? I didn't think the Union owned GM or Ford or the public school system or Boeing. I thought ordinary Americans (and others) through their retirement plans, 401k plans and their investment accounts owned these companies. I'm shocked to learn that they are actually "union owned".

What these laws do is force the union to become relevant again rather than exercise power without responsibility. If workers are oppressed, they will join and empower a union, if they are treated well they will ignore the unions.

How is that bad? Why do you hate freedom of choice?

I can guess. Perhaps it is because Unions empower Democrats that you care so deeply about keeping union membership mandatory. If unions spread their money evenly about the parties, you wouldn't care that they might be losing their mandatory dues.

Nope you're wrong. It's a race to the bottom. Whenever there's substantial unemployment workers will be unable to bargain without union agreements. Do you think in RTW states that Wal Mart cares if its workers have a hissy and try to unionize and strike? Nope, they just get new workers from the pool of desperate unemployed people to take their place making to change to benefits at all.

My argument has nothing to do with campaign contributions, sorry.

 

[jeninflorida]

Median wages in Right-to-Work states are -9.4% to -11.4% lower than in union states. Furthermore Right to Work states have lower rates of workers getting health care and decent retirement plans.

Again, if you were in one of these jobs and needed to support your kids and family would you choose to have a job that compensates you better or one that's much worse?

I have challenges with a lot of these studies as everyone knows statistics tell great lies.

people should make as much money as they are worth. unions like to put this number at an artificial level

union's offer little flexibility and protect workers that should be fired. just look at the number of "teachers" that became administrators due to being "unfit" to be in the classroom. a company must have the right to fire dead weight and unfit workers

union were great 100 years ago. but the mind set of union leaders is still that of someone living in 1900

 

[Wat_Tyler]

lol... $.07 over three years???

Wages and increases I would never hold still for.


Of course, that is said with the coal-black heart of a capitalist.

 

[jeninflorida]

Nope you're wrong. It's a race to the bottom. Whenever there's substantial unemployment workers will be unable to bargain without union agreements. Do you think in RTW states that Wal Mart cares if its workers have a hissy and try to unionize and strike? Nope, they just get new workers from the pool of desperate unemployed people to take their place making to change to benefits at all.

My argument has nothing to do with campaign contributions, sorry.

the union will not go away in schools, government, or the auto world.

also companies must have the right to move the business to where ever they see fit. not like the obama that has blocked Boeing from moving. then again, we all know that obama is a terrorist. in time, I hope obama is tried for crimes against America

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My union stole our pension fund, and working for the state I never once saw our bizness agent in 20 years. Its all about dues and thefts.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Merc spent a month assuring me that I knew jack-shit about the troubles small business people have firing minorities based on his experience with government so big that it has an HR department and all that one does is simply file some paperwork with the HR department and your worker gets "fired."


lol

Even though between the two of us, only one of us owned a small business, only one of us fired a minority and only one of us faced the wrath of the EO wing of the government and its ability to hire lawyerS to go after the evil oppressive business owner...

Why have unions unless you are white and need protection from the Government?

Ish posted within the last two days about the redundancy of the Union in an age where government has subsumed all of their functions and duties from workplace safety to technical education; all they do is make life more expensive and keep willing workers unemployed while creating a panacea for workers unwilling to work. With the auto industry "bailout" of the unions, we see the logical conclusion of this unholy marriage of power.

And the Left wonders why so much fucking cash is sitting on the sidelines!

It is what they vote for!!!

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Wages and increases I would never hold still for.


Of course, that is said with the coal-black heart of a capitalist.

I prefer to negotiate with myself...

Hell, my new employer negotiated with themselves and the first three time I showed up I got promotions and raises. I'm already management and I really haven't even shown up to work yet...

lol

 

[Wat_Tyler]

I guess that unions now are a great get-out-the-vote tool.


I think they have probably served their purpose, rather like the village blacksmith.


I think I shall carry my capitalist ass to work and oppress it now . . . .

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

My union stole our pension fund, and working for the state I never once saw our bizness agent in 20 years. Its all about dues and thefts.

Money laundering for the Democrat party like Sallie Mae, Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae and Michelle's six-figure no show job in Chicago...

 

[jeninflorida]

I guess that unions now are a great get-out-the-vote tool.


I think they have probably served their purpose, rather like the village blacksmith.


I think I shall carry my capitalist ass to work and oppress it now . . . .

they are a great "thug" machine