Molestation causing rape fantasies? Was it even molestation...?

[IrishRua]

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[warl0ck1]

I think that if is effecting your life now then you should seek professional help.someone who will listen to you an has the experience to help you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yes, this was absolutely molestation. And it still is-- your brother is abusive towards you and your mother. he is unwilling to give up anypower that he's gathered over you.

Your partner is quite correct, it was rape, and your brother may have raped other women as well. I am very glad that you have a partner who can see these things. Please, trust him, and let him help.

i wish you peace and for your brother-- i wish retribution.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

First, a huge hug to you! Brave to share your story and ask for help. I can't say that I think that the answers you are looking for can really come from anyplace other than from within you, because this is your experience. That said, sometimes we need help to get to a place to take a more honest view to find answer we need, so kudos to you for raising your hand. I believe that healing comes to us when we are ready to claim it, and it sounds like maybe you are in that time and place now. It is a wonderful thing that you are with someone who you have been able to be open with and can support you as you work through this. Huge hug to him as well.

That said, I can't say enough positive things about this group....and this one. I have seen the sense of community and compassion there bring support and comfort to the stories of people I love dearly that were struggling like you are now. I encourage you to continue to reach out and lean on those around you. You are worth the work of stripping this away from your sense of self and living vibrantly, no matter how tough it may be....so hang in there. You are beautiful and whole as you are, its just a process of remembering it....and you will.

As far as how this relates to your sexuality and fantasies...again it will be a sorting that only you can answer. I can not speak to your experience, but I will share that eventually the persitent "why's" of what I craved faded as I found a deeper acceptance for my desires as just one part of what makes me, me.

I wish you the very best on your journey... be proud, you are already on your way!

 

[eastern sun]

You are right to raise these questions. I encourage you to look for answers with people you trust, since we really don't know you and the circumstances of your life.

I know that incest in my own family has been identified as a loving relationship and the source of deep and abiding bonds. How can such love (genuinely felt) be considered shameful and abusive?

It can be very confusing to sort through the very complicated feelings that arise in these situations. But it is important to see clearly how childhood experiences influence your feelings and choices, because the lessons learned as a child will shape your adult life subconsciously if you don't take action to unlearn them.

And often, we are pretty tangled up inside, with ideas and beliefs that contradict each other. It's up to us to sort them out, and figure out what is best for our growth and development.

Enjoy the process, if you can. It's a good use of one's life, in my opinion.

 

[unregistered]

 

[BiBunny]

For some people, rape fantasies may be due to past sexual abuse. But I have rape fantasies and was never sexually abused in the past, so...yeah.

 

[fadetoblack2011]

Yea im with everyone else there, get prof help for your own good

 

[herfootrest]

If you were 11 then by definition it was rape. It doesn't matter if you tore your own clothes off and threw yourself on him, it's rape.

An 11 year old doesn't have the emotional capacity to decide to "consent". I've heard rape victims say they felt guilty because what took place felt good to them. Even if there was some small part that felt enjoyable to you, you were still raped and you should have no guilt or shame about it.

Please seek help.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

If you were 11 then by definition it was rape. It doesn't matter if you tore your own clothes off and threw yourself on him, it's rape.

An 11 year old doesn't have the emotional capacity to decide to "consent". I've heard rape victims say they felt guilty because what took place felt good to them. Even if there was some small part that felt enjoyable to you, you were still raped and you should have no guilt or shame about it.

Please seek help.

I think that it can be a bit more complicated than this when it is children raping or having sex with other children. Rape is defined as sexual act forced upon a person. In order for something to be forced, one has to consider consent. That said, I have to respectfully disagree with your belief that a child does not have the emotional capacity to determine their consent... I think that they do.

What they lack is the ability to ALWAYS protect themselves from more mature and/or coercive forces that prey upon a child's trusting nature and innocence and/or from plain old physical brute force. Yes, they are vulnerable, but they are also completely sentient beings in their own experiences and choices even when they can't quite grasp the consequences and rewards of many of them. Maturing is a slow process of development that occurs throughout childhood and for some WELL into adulthood. I do not believe that one lacks a sense of self, personal power, and boundaries until their 18th birthday, and often in the human animal, maturity has nothing to do with age.

That said, of course out of compassion for the OP who is clearly struggling one can easily default to vilifying the brother, especially because he is male and older. Maybe in this case it is completely appropriate, but given many more details that only the OP knows, one has to consider the possibility that it might not... it is something only she can decide for herself. This kind of exploring can be murky work, so an experienced guide is sometimes necessary or helpful to navigate it all if she feels she needs it.

I believe in cases like this that it is our job as fellow compassionate humans to simply trust her to gauge it and decide for herself, and then when she does determine her own truth about it to just listen and then believe her.

 

[herfootrest]

Rape is defined as sexual act forced upon a person. In order for something to be forced, one has to consider consent. That said, I have to respectfully disagree with your belief that a child does not have the emotional capacity to determine their consent... I think that they do.

.

You're saying there are situations where an 11 year old may be mature enough to consent to sex?

I understand if the other person is also 11 that makes them both victims and the whole situation needs to be investigated. But in my mind, and in the law there is no such thing as consentual sex with an 11 year old.

 

[His_pet_slut]

You're saying there are situations where an 11 year old may be mature enough to consent to sex?

I understand if the other person is also 11 that makes them both victims and the whole situation needs to be investigated. But in my mind, and in the law there is no such thing as consentual sex with an 11 year old.

If it was two children of the same age and as you assert, they are both victims, who are they victims of? Who would you be investigating? Even in the most balanced upbringings, children of this age have questions, are experiencing the beginnings of hormonal urges, etc.

When you assign someone the role of victim, you are placing a label that carries potentially life altering and harmful baggage, quite possibly without reason. How does one have a victim without a perpetrator? Are two 6 year old children that play doctor and explore one another's body also victims? Of whom? Their own curiosity?

 

[DVS]

You're getting enough good advice to think about, so I won't get into that. What I might bring up is your brother. If he was about the same age as you were at the time he was "teaching you how to kiss", then he was the instigator of the situation. In that sense, you were the victim. But, he might not have known for sure what he was doing and if you didn't resist, he may have thought that you were enjoying it.

It's difficult to understand what a childhood mind thinks in certain situations. I was very young, when I found BDSM. In fact, I was younger than 11. I was confused, and I thought I was weird. But, when I found a young neighbor girl who would let me do things to her, I think I thought she was maybe like me and she enjoyed everything I did, just because she never resisted. Thinking back, I don't remember if I even asked if she enjoyed it. I just did things and she didn't resist. So, was I a molester? I don't know the answer to that.

She was only a couple years younger than me, but I wasn't aware of anything about power, sex or the right and wrongs of childhood. I was just experimenting with something that was in my mind. I had no outside stimulation. We lived in a very small town, I was too young to read any magazines and there was no Internet. I was a bit shy so if she had resisted, I know I wouldn't have forced her into it. But just because she didn't resist, I assumed she enjoyed it.

Maybe, your brother had similar thoughts and because you were there, he thought he could educate you into something he might already know was enjoyable. I'm not saying that's what happened, but I'm just trying to put myself into his place, because I did things to a young neighbor girl when I was about that age.

You don't mention exactly what happened between you and your brother, so I can't say if anything I did was the same or different. And there is the difference that he was your brother, and while I had a sister that was younger than me, I chose to select a neighborhood girl. Again, if both parties are young kids, how can you say there was a victim and an aggressor? I'd say it's possible that both were victims of their own vulnerable minds.

Now, I'm going to take this in a different direction. If your brother knew what he was doing was wrong, or if at some point in his life he realized what he had done was wrong, he should have at least said something to you once he knew he had been aggressive with you. Sure, it's not easy for him to do that, but if he was as much a victim at the time as you were, he could have helped you from a lot of mental suffering if he had just told you he was experimenting and since you didn't resist, he thought you enjoyed what he was doing. Again, I'm not sure what actually happened between you two, so this is only a scenario.

If he knew at the time, or if he knew later in life what he had done was wrong, he might feel guilt of his own. It's not easy to express guilt for something, let alone for something you did when you were very young and maybe not so sure of right and wrong, yourself. Guilt can cause someone to hate themselves and hate can sometimes come out as rage against others. He might be hurting inside for what he did to you, and yes, he might have done the same thing to others.

But, if he doesn't do something to help himself, he might want to keep you humble to him, and fearing that he might harm you if you get too much power. So, his rage could be his way to keep you under control, so you won't ever gain the power to confront him with the past. I know that's a difficult life to lead, but once he starts with it, the longer it goes on, the more difficult it is for him to change.

You first step is talking about your past with someone. Sure, it could be a professional, but just talking about what you remember to a trusted friend is enough to get some understanding of your feelings. It's good that you have a partner that is so understanding and he seems to feel like you were a victim and your brother was a rapist. I'd keep from going that far for now, unless you know he forced you and you resisted his force. And even if did happen that way, is an 11 year old boy really a rapist, if he doesn't even understand?

In my opinion, it all comes down to both of you deciding for yourselves. What did you know and when did you know it. It's just a place to start, but in your talks with a trusted friend, this is a way to understand both points of view. It's not easy to think of our painful past and even more difficult to talk about it. But once you start, I think it will all start to pour out and you'll feel so much better about yourself.

If you do want to confront your brother, you should first get your own feelings understood first. You will become stronger, and be able to stand up to him. The anger he's spewing out now is hurtful to both you and your mother. Like I said, it could all be just a strange product of his hurting inside. But, don't worry about him right now. Worry about yourself. First things first. And I think you are on the right path to that.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

You're saying there are situations where an 11 year old may be mature enough to consent to sex?

I understand if the other person is also 11 that makes them both victims and the whole situation needs to be investigated. But in my mind, and in the law there is no such thing as consentual sex with an 11 year old.

I simply meant to suggest that when considering sexual acts between children that it is possible that it is not rape. It may be something else that makes many people uncomfortable depending on ones views of sex in general, but that does not make it rape.

DVS, your situation is exactly the kind of thing I was trying to allow for. It is possible that there is no victim. Thank you.

 

[slutclaire]

I agree with a previous post -- speaking with a therapist or a counselor would likely be helpful. A therapist can help you deal with thoughts or flashbacks about the experiences and learning to cope with the experiences you had with your brother can help in understanding your thoughts and desires now.

It sounds like molestation to me. He has consistently used fear -- when you were eleven and now -- to exert power over you and apparently your mother, too. When you were young, he used sex to feel a sort of power over you.

The rape fantasies you have, while linked to your brother, are a result of all of your experiences. They're part of you. I'd be hesitant to say that these fantasies are a direct result of your brother, especially since these fantasies bring pleasure to you, and the experiences with your brother are unpleasant.

It's weird how we can go years without feeling noticeable emotional turmoil about an experience and then, for one reason or another, it begins to take a toll on us. I really hope you speak to a professional because therapy is such an amazing way of coping.

It requires a lot of personal strength to be able to put bad experiences into words, particularly experiences that you're not in the habit of talking about and I hope you find what you're looking for here.

 

[herfootrest]

If it was two children of the same age and as you assert, they are both victims, who are they victims of? Who would you be investigating? Even in the most balanced upbringings, children of this age have questions, are experiencing the beginnings of hormonal urges, etc.

It depends on how severe. If two kids want to see what each other has down below I wouldn't freak out. Well I would if it was my kid. But if they're doing things little kids shouldn't be doing I would begin the investigation with the family, by child protective services. Maybe they find no evidence of anything going on at home.

I was an accountant for a national day care chain and was aware of many investigations. The overwhelming majority of the time if kids were tying to do crazy things at daycare, or drawing crazy sexual type pictures, it was later found that there was some sexual abuse at home.

Two grown people can do whatever they want I don't care. But it's wrong for an 11 year old to have sex. If they are having sex it's time to find out what's going on at home.

We live in a world where increasingly people want to make issues a gray area, and often they are. Children having sex is wrong and it's not a gray area. And more than likely if an 11 year old is having sex, there is an adult in their lives that has acted inappropriately.

 

[His_pet_slut]

It depends on how severe. If two kids want to see what each other has down below I wouldn't freak out. Well I would if it was my kid. But if they're doing things little kids shouldn't be doing I would begin the investigation with the family, by child protective services. Maybe they find no evidence of anything going on at home.

I was an accountant for a national day care chain and was aware of many investigations. The overwhelming majority of the time if kids were tying to do crazy things at daycare, or drawing crazy sexual type pictures, it was later found that there was some sexual abuse at home.

Two grown people can do whatever they want I don't care. But it's wrong for an 11 year old to have sex. If they are having sex it's time to find out what's going on at home.

We live in a world where increasingly people want to make issues a gray area, and often they are. Children having sex is wrong and it's not a gray area. And more than likely if an 11 year old is having sex, there is an adult in their lives that has acted inappropriately.

I spent a couple of decades as a pediatric nurse and have extensive education and training in the field.

I can assure you that mutual masturbation, experimental kissing and perhaps even fondling by age appropriate cohorts does occur on a regular basis. Always has and is no actual indicator of any abuse or neglect in the home or elsewhere. In this era of highly sexualized media content that is seen from an early age, it is even more prevalent.