I am prejudiced .....

[NewEnglandGirl]

Ellie and N.E.Girl, I am sick to death of these threads too. I just want to come here and chat not have to feel like I have to justify my existence. You both have good points. Everyone has bad life habits. People smoke, drink, don't eat enough fibre (that'll give you bowel cancer), don't get enough sleep (increased risk of heart disease). These threads reduce a large group of people to one type. I have a dozen of so overweight friends. I am the only one who has health problems as a result of their weight. Each of these women has a different life history and relationship to their body size.

You don't have to justify anything to anyone. Not here. Don't even try, it's like repeatedly bashing your head into the wall - all you'll end up with is a concussion. What you'll find over time is that there are people you enjoy talking with, people you don't enjoy but are still valuable posters, and people who you start to instinctively avoid - mental iggie, as it were.

But even among the more valuable posters (a highly charged and individualized concept) from time to time you'll find yourself coming down squarely on opposite sides of an argument. That is the nature of the beast.

I left here several years ago because the ratio of trolls, alts, and just generally nasty people outweighed that of the people I enjoyed. In short, it stopped being fun to be here. While I was gone, I spent some time on several moderated boards. We pretty much all got along at most of them, but even in the less moderated ones, there was a level of homogeneity that was sort of like mental instant oatmeal. For now, I am back. It may last, it may not, we'll see.

As for health problems, some are the cart, and some are the horse. Yes, obesity can cause a lot of health problems, absolutely. But sometimes the health problems cause the obesity. Thyroid issues, for example. Cardiac issues. Rheumatoid arthritis, and other conditions that impair movement. People who have to take steroids like Prednisone get bigger because that's what steroids do. How about many anti-psychotics? "Crazy" people don't necessarily get fat because they are stupid or don't care - some anti-psychotics make you feel hungry, 24/7, even if you've just eaten.

 

[vrosej10]

You don't have to justify anything to anyone. Not here. Don't even try, it's like repeatedly bashing your head into the wall - all you'll end up with is a concussion. What you'll find over time is that there are people you enjoy talking with, people you don't enjoy but are still valuable posters, and people who you start to instinctively avoid - mental iggie, as it were.

But even among the more valuable posters (a highly charged and individualized concept) from time to time you'll find yourself coming down squarely on opposite sides of an argument. That is the nature of the beast.

I left here several years ago because the ratio of trolls, alts, and just generally nasty people outweighed that of the people I enjoyed. In short, it stopped being fun to be here. While I was gone, I spent some time on several moderated boards. We pretty much all got along at most of them, but even in the less moderated ones, there was a level of homogeneity that was sort of like mental instant oatmeal. For now, I am back. It may last, it may not, we'll see.

As for health problems, some are the cart, and some are the horse. Yes, obesity can cause a lot of health problems, absolutely. But sometimes the health problems cause the obesity. Thyroid issues, for example. Cardiac issues. Rheumatoid arthritis, and other conditions that impair movement. People who have to take steroids like Prednisone get bigger because that's what steroids do. How about many anti-psychotics? "Crazy" people don't necessarily get fat because they are stupid or don't care - some anti-psychotics make you feel hungry, 24/7, even if you've just eaten.

I am on psych meds that will mess with your blood sugar over time. This is probably the reason I am diabetic so young. This place gets to you after a while.

 

[NewEnglandGirl]

I am on psych meds that will mess with your blood sugar over time. This is probably the reason I am diabetic so young. This place gets to you after a while.

That could be. And being diabetic means dancing a careful dance with intake and meds, especially if you are on insulin.

It does, yes. The GeeBee requires a thicker skin. Or a lot of time-outs. Or both.

 

[blunt_trauma]

You know, it's tough to break a habit of a lifetime.

and that's the real truth. it's just bloody hard work.
and that's why people fail. because it's just bloody hard work.
and there is no magic wand, and it's just you and your will power.
but you're not a quitter, so you'll get there in the end.
i honestly believe that.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

GIMME A BREAK. Obesity isnt a disease. Leprosy is a disease.

You are a disease.

 

[unregistered]

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

You aren't far behind.

LJ likes big butts, I cannot lie...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

A real man wants nuthin to do with homogenity or homogeniuses or homogenized milk (they even fuck with the milk).

 

[unregistered]

 

[English Lady]

and that's the real truth. it's just bloody hard work.
and that's why people fail. because it's just bloody hard work.
and there is no magic wand, and it's just you and your will power.
but you're not a quitter, so you'll get there in the end.
i honestly believe that.

It is bloody hard work, there's no 'trick' to it and you have to just dig in and get on with it. It's not simple at all. I wish more people would realise that, really, maybe they'd be a little supportive if they knew the efforts involved.

 

[blunt_trauma]

It is bloody hard work, there's no 'trick' to it and you have to just dig in and get on with it. It's not simple at all. I wish more people would realise that, really, maybe they'd be a little supportive if they knew the efforts involved.

it's a long haul. that's the problem.
takes time to see results.
you need a neon sign over your head,
pointing out that you've lost # pounds already

 

[redheadedtxn]

Okay, how about this: are you certain you do not want to discuss how TMTFU dumped your ass? What did you do to deserve that? You were such an obedient servant.

I dumped him, for the record. The relationship had run it's course. But that has nothing to do with this thread, does it?

 

[Beco]

Ugh, totally. Especially when theres a line of them, lumbering like bloody elephants. And standing wherever they'll cause the most annoyance to everyine around them...

I'm always like, okay....I get it, thats why they're so fat, because they don't freak'n move!! Get off the couch people...

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

LJ likes big butts, I cannot lie...

But you're a big ass. Slight difference.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Ugh, totally. Especially when theres a line of them, lumbering like bloody elephants. And standing wherever they'll cause the most annoyance to everyine around them...

Maybe one of them will run you over. Or eat you. Om nom nom nom.

 

[Beco]

There's some truth in it. People in western countries spend more time than ever on diets yet as a whole we are getting fatter. The one thing diets do teach is eating disorder style behaviours, feast or famine approaches. Long term behavioural change is out of the reach of most people. It's fine in theory but it doesn't really work. In the short term most peole will lose weight on a diet but by five years most people have regained the wieght and a could chunk fo them will be fatter than when they started.

Diets don't work because we put out shit food, processed crap that will kill you, one way or another. We don't stress more vegetables, less meat or portion control. We produce McDonalds or Dortios in this country. God bless Michelle Obama!

 

[Joeybagadonuts]

and that's the real truth. it's just bloody hard work.
and that's why people fail. because it's just bloody hard work.
and there is no magic wand, and it's just you and your will power.
but you're not a quitter, so you'll get there in the end.
i honestly believe that.

true that

 

[Beco]

You know, it's tough to break a habit of a lifetime.

It's not that tough. You have to want it. You have to really want to quit smoking, or lose weight. If there is any doubt, it can't be done.

It's all about pain and pleasure. Associate enough pain to being overweight, and you can get busy with losing weight.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Mission accomplished. A great discussion on a - um - weighty subject. There are some excellent, thoughtful posts (Ellie, great to see you again).

My admitation goes to all who struggle with a weight problem, at least you're trying. I am not skinny and would not want to be but try to live a balanced life in both what I eat and how I exersize. I've never been to a McDonalds or any burger joint.

I'm sure I've made some enemies just by starting this thread but even you must admit it's caused some great responses.

 

[Peregrinator]

Pot. Kettle. Black!

And now to de-lame this thread because it is really and truly pathetic.

[Material prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

[Material prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

[Material prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

[Material prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

[Material prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

[Material prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

[Material prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

[Material prohibited per our forum guidelines.]

WTF? Are we not allowed to post naked chicks any more?

Ugh! Why, oh why do there always have to be regurgitated anti/pro-fat threads when I visit the GB?

And Tess? Is this the Tristesse I used to know and love? Holly D., is that you? Or are you pod-people versions?

Perhaps my memory is pulling a Reagan, but I don't recall you two having so much vitriol towards anyone, let alone whole groups within society.

*sigh*

You know what really sucks about commenting on "fat" threads? It's that everyone assumes you're fat if you stick up for fat people, and so they don't take you seriously- which in itself is a circular, sucky commentary on society's treatment of the obese. It's all but a requisite that you be "skinny" if you expect to be given credence.

I'm not skinny, never have been, and I hope I never will be. I mean, who really wants to be skinny? Think about that word. To me it conjures up the image of someone so dreadfully malnourished that their skin looks like it's clinging to their skeleton. *shudder* That's just as hideous as someone who's morbidly obese.

But I'm not fat either -although, since my very physical job is seasonal, there are a few months of the year when I definitely flirt with it. It doesn't help that my hobbies are sedentary, either (reading, writing, movies). And I hate exercise for exercise's sake. Fortunately, I'm a reasonable eater and I dig slow food, so I stay fit most of the year.

I dislike both extremes of this argument. On one side there are a bunch of snarksters who, for whatever reason, have decided they're comfortable selecting a group of society to be treated as lesser than themselves. On the other side are a bunch of mopes leading a crusade to make the unhealthy attractive.

To the latter: I'm sorry folks, but rolls of fat and ridges of puckered cellulite are flat-out unhealthy and unattractive. Labeling yourself a "BBW" and getting garment manufacturers to adjust sizing numbers to flatter you isn't going to change that. Ultimately, you're doing yourself a disservice by creating this illusory world to convince yourself that being obese is a good thing. And it's a mistake to dismiss people who declare they're not attracted to obese people as shallow. Granted, some people are saying that for shallow reasons, as demonstrated in this thread. However, what you look like on the outside sometimes is an indicator of certain things about you as a person. When you're looking at a morbidly obese person, it's a safe bet that you're looking at someone who's got some depressive problems, who doesn't take care of themselves and neglects their health, who has poor impulse control and is literally wearing their emotional baggage. These are not attractive things- but that doesn't excuse ill-treatment in any form.

Obesity is genuine problem in this country. I'm concerned by how many 300 lb.+ people I see rolling around in electric wheelchairs. It used to be that most people in wheelchairs would've loved nothing more than to get up and walk away from them; now most of their occupants are there by choice.


That said, the folks who are tossing around the phrase "lifestyle change" are doing so thoughtlessly. You say it like the decision to change is just a matter of snapping your fingers, and everything in one's life and psyche tidily rearranges into practicality and health and, gee, what's so tough about that? Have any of you ever completely changed your entire lifestyle? I haven't, but I can imagine what it encompasses, and I hope I never have to do it. To change everything about the way you live every second of the day, and even change the way you think... it's so drastic that you'd practically become a different person. What makes you think you should treat such suggestions so cavalierly?

I would take people who have a bee in their bonnet about the obese more seriously if they used words like fit or trim to describe the ideal, but they don't. It's always "skinny" and "thin,' which are all about appearances, not having a healthy body.

Another thing that bugs me is the sheer lack of empathy in such attitudes. You act as if obese people are offending you on purpose. Can't you see them? This sweaty, large person next to you is probably pleasant (as many larger people tend to be), painfully self-conscious, and anxious not to offend. He or she obviously goes to extremes not to dump on other people. They've internalized their problems so severely that they're destroying their own bodies. And all you see is someone who ought to hand you money as penance?

Shame. On. You.

And the argument about how the obese cost us all money is hypocritical unless you're going to demand compensation for all costly idiotic behavior. Millions are spent every year rescuing:

- inexperienced idiots who scramble up Rainier and McKinley and get themselves stuck or injured
- idiots who stay put after the hundredth warning about the incoming hurricane
- idiots who go "extreme" skiing in remote valleys and get buried under avalanches they triggered (surprise! not.)
- idiot hikers who get lost for really absurd reasons
- idiot boaters who have no clue how to operate their capsizing boat

...and all number of dim-witted messes that cost big bucks to get people out of.

People make stupid decisions all the time. And, yes- caving in to laziness and/or depression and stuffing your face is a frequently-made poor choice. But it's no more or less stupid than many others.

You know, sometimes I just don't get people. And when it comes to subjects like this, sometimes I don't want to.

Disappointed in the Deli,
Ellie

Ellie, this is a great post. I really like the way you think things through.

That said, you're posting in what I can only hope is a slightly uninformed fashion about rescue costs for that list of people who supposedly cost anyone a lot of money. I invite you to look at the first few pages of my thread "Because it's there..." where there's a discussion of rescue costs. You could also look at a Killswitch thread from a couple years ago about Mt Hood.

The headline is that people who require rescue from the backcountry don't cost taxpayers much at all.

Which doesn't take away from your point at all; there are all manner of demographics that do in fact raise healthcare and infrastructure costs for everyone, and some of them are either all choice or partially choice.

 

[Byron In Exile]

WTF? Are we not allowed to post naked chicks any more?

Doesn't matter what it is if it's just flooding a thread to disrupt it.

 

[Peregrinator]

Doesn't matter what it is if it's just flooding a thread to disrupt it.

Ah. Cheers. I was worried there for a second.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

I like this smooth segue from

"A fat person's sweaty arms pressed against me on the elevator today as he/she wheezed her elephantine body out the door and he/she was smelly like four-day-old fish and OH GAWD THEY'RE SO DISGUSTING!!! Don't you agree? Whadda you think?"

to

"Excellent discussion and concourse on an important and sensitive issue, folks. Thanks for everyone's participation!"

ahhh, human beings...we're all just a big-ass barrel of goal post-shifting incongruities, ain't we?

Unanswered question: What was the thread being "parodied" here?

 

[Byron In Exile]

My admitation goes to all who struggle with a weight problem

Did you mean "admiration" or "agitation"?

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Unanswered question: What was the thread being "parodied" here?

This one Perhaps "parody" is the wrong word - inspiration would be better.