Doms and Doormats

[Chiara_searches]

As you can tell from my join date, I'm new here. So if this topic has been beaten within an inch of its life, could someone post a link to that thread? Thanks!

I woke this morning thinking about a couple of different threads I read yesterday. Some were on the BDSM Cafe board and another couple were in the BDSM Personals. I can't recall which posts particularly gave me this impression, but they inferred a good portion* of doms on Lit are simply looking for doormats. There seemed to be some resentment against subs who can speak their mind and hold to their own opinions. I just don't understand. Could someone please explain it?

Submission doesn't require me to leave my brain at the door. I would expect it is a more engaging experience for both parties if there's a spark of intelligence that goes along with the spark of sexual attraction.

I almost felt like instead of writing dom/sub ever again, I should be writing dom/doormat. But I know it really is PYL/pyl.

*Please note the "good portion." I recognize not all doms here fall into my generalization, so let's not waste time scolding me about my generalization.

 

[rosco rathbone]

We are looking for subs who are a whore in the bedroom, a lady in the drawing room, an intelligent contributor on the message board, and a doormat when appropriate.

 

[ownedsubgal]

and by the by, i happen to be a "doormat" submissive who is intelligent, engaging, passionate, opinionated, and fortunate enough to have acquired the power of speech. but because my submissiveness is not a conscious choice on my part, nor sparked from inspiration or love or anything else, but is rather an innate personality trait which manifests in all aspects of my life, others give me the label of doormat, and view me as some inferior sort of submissive, and inferior sort of person altogether. for 10+ years i've read online and listened to people at meetings and clubs reviling my type of submissiveness, as well as any Dominant who would stoop so low as to find such a person appealing.

there will always be those who will find fault with you however you happen to be. so you must own who you are, and surround yourself intimately with those who accept you as you are.

 

[teknight]

It's really easy to be a dick online. Doms don't grow on trees, regardless of how "domly" they might feel about themselves.
The question is: how many get positive responses?

 

[chy_girl]

There are quite a few PYL-types here who have no visible issue with pyl-types speaking their mind. They tend to be the regulars. That being said, I've ran into more than a few dickDoms, but I think it's less about them having an issue with an opinionated pyl-type than it is that they tend toward the "misogynistic bastard" category. I'm sure the female PYL-types are similar, but I can't say much since I've never played with one online.

It's like the rest of the world. You have ass holes and they tend to spoil the fun. Part of my submission was learning when to open my mouth and stick to it when I wasn't being heard. Part of my ex-PYLs' Domination was learning when to listen and what to do about it.

And remember: you're online. Chances are pretty good (in my experience) that what you'll find in the personals is lees likely to be an actual PYL and more likely to be someone who wants to role play for wank-fodder. I could be wrong though.

 

[catalina_francisco]

And remember: you're online. Chances are pretty good (in my experience) that what you'll find in the personals is lees likely to be an actual PYL and more likely to be someone who wants to role play for wank-fodder. I could be wrong though.

So true. I can see why the OP gathered that impression from being on this forum briefly, but if you get to know everyone, you will begin to recognise when someone is having fun with posting, and basically who and what works for those who post regularly. That being said, variety is the spice of life...what suits me might not suit you, doesn;t mean either of us is wrong, just different.

Catalina

 

[boredVAwife]

I have no problem lying down at the feet of the right fem domme and if that makes me a doormat, so be it. Sadly I haven't found her yet.

 

[chy_girl]

I have no problem lying down at the feet of the right fem domme and if that makes me a doormat, so be it. Sadly I haven't found her yet.

My most favorite place in the world was at the feet of my ex-PYLs. Either sitting, kneeling or literally curled up next to them on the floor. It didn't make me a doormat. It was just a happy, safe place to be with the bonus of being next to one of them.

 

[boredVAwife]

wow that just about sums it up. I would be one content lady to experience what you describe dear.

 

[chy_girl]

wow that just about sums it up. I would be one content lady to experience what you describe dear.

It's the most amazing place to be. For a lot of the pyl-types I know. And some switches. It doesn't make us doormats, just content. Very, very content.

I hope you find yours soon, and that she is appreciates and respects what you have to offer.

 

[Chiara_searches]

and by the by, i happen to be a "doormat" submissive who is intelligent, engaging, passionate, opinionated, and fortunate enough to have acquired the power of speech. but because my submissiveness is not a conscious choice on my part, nor sparked from inspiration or love or anything else, but is rather an innate personality trait which manifests in all aspects of my life, others give me the label of doormat, and view me as some inferior sort of submissive, and inferior sort of person altogether. for 10+ years i've read online and listened to people at meetings and clubs reviling my type of submissiveness, as well as any Dominant who would stoop so low as to find such a person appealing.

there will always be those who will find fault with you however you happen to be. so you must own who you are, and surround yourself intimately with those who accept you as you are.

The way you articulated your position makes it clear you aren't a "doormat" in the sense I was trying to convey. I hope you did not take any offense. The sense I woke with this morning is that a good portion of the doms here don't care if you have opinions one way or another; they don't care if you are intelligent, engaging, etc. They wouldn't want a sub who can articulate her belief system as you just did. So, no, I wasn't meaning to revile what works for you; rather I was trying to understand better. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Chiara_searches]

It's really easy to be a dick online. Doms don't grow on trees, regardless of how "domly" they might feel about themselves.
The question is: how many get positive responses?

I think the question of "how many get positive responses" is what's bothering me. Yes, I fully comprehend what works for me does not work for others. But sometimes I feel really worried about people here. And, yes, I know some people are being playful. And, yes, I know we never reveal ourselves totally here (although I've seen some revealing pictures).

So I think, really, by my babbling here I just answered my own question: what works for me doesn't work for you, or you, or that person over there. We can only watch out and support one another in a limited capacity. Does this mean I have to stop worry about people here? If it does, tough, I ain't gonna do it.

 

[Chiara_searches]

We are looking for subs who are a whore in the bedroom, a lady in the drawing room, an intelligent contributor on the message board, and a doormat when appropriate.

I think the "lady, intelligent contributor" part gets lost in the mix of what I was reading yesterday. But to be frank, one of the posts that caused this concern looked like a PYL scolding a pyl for having an opinion about something. So he was, effectively, trying to squash her "intelligent contributor". Granted, she didn't sound squashed in the least; but it still bothered me for some reason.

 

[Chiara_searches]

I think it's less about them having an issue with an opinionated pyl-type than it is that they tend toward the "misogynistic bastard" category.

It's like the rest of the world. You have ass holes and they tend to spoil the fun. Part of my submission was learning when to open my mouth and stick to it when I wasn't being heard. Part of my ex-PYLs' Domination was learning when to listen and what to do about it.

And remember: you're online. Chances are pretty good (in my experience) that what you'll find in the personals is lees likely to be an actual PYL and more likely to be someone who wants to role play for wank-fodder. I could be wrong though.

Very good points that made me pull a Homer Simpson (smacking my hand to my forehead, saying "Doh" or whatever it is he says). It simply is like the rest of the world. You have to navigate carefully to find the quality. Thanks for pointing out a better perspective.

 

[Chiara_searches]

It's the most amazing place to be. For a lot of the pyl-types I know. And some switches. It doesn't make us doormats, just content. Very, very content.

I hope you find yours soon, and that she is appreciates and respects what you have to offer.

I think the crux of my concern was the mental doormat; not the physicality. I have never waited patiently at anyone's feet. I have envisioned doing so (sort-of-ish...but that's a topic for one of my stories). I was more concerned about people being berated for opinions...but as pointed out it's just like real world and the longer I hang out here, the more easy it will become to recognize the quality vs. the posers.

 

[ownedsubgal]

The way you articulated your position makes it clear you aren't a "doormat" in the sense I was trying to convey. I hope you did not take any offense. The sense I woke with this morning is that a good portion of the doms here don't care if you have opinions one way or another; they don't care if you are intelligent, engaging, etc. They wouldn't want a sub who can articulate her belief system as you just did. So, no, I wasn't meaning to revile what works for you; rather I was trying to understand better. Thank you for sharing.

oh i totally own the doormat label now, and don't find it at all offensive, no matter how others may intend it.

now the problem you seem to be having is just running into assorted online jerks, which is an entirely different subject than your OP. there is a difference between a Dominant and some dude with no life who just happens to have an internet connection. these bums are not looking for a submissive at all (they would be absolutely terrified of one in the flesh), they are looking for an anonymous subject to help them wank-off. just my humble opinion, of course.

 

[Chiara_searches]

now the problem you seem to be having is just running into assorted online jerks, which is an entirely different subject than your OP. there is a difference between a Dominant and some dude with no life who just happens to have an internet connection. these bums are not looking for a submissive at all (they would be absolutely terrified of one in the flesh), they are looking for an anonymous subject to help them wank-off. just my humble opinion, of course.

I'm laughing so hard that I'm crying...and writing a note to never write a post first thing in the morning when I'm half foggy from sleep.

 

[BiBunny]

oh i totally own the doormat label now, and don't find it at all offensive, no matter how others may intend it.

now the problem you seem to be having is just running into assorted online jerks, which is an entirely different subject than your OP. there is a difference between a Dominant and some dude with no life who just happens to have an internet connection. these bums are not looking for a submissive at all (they would be absolutely terrified of one in the flesh), they are looking for an anonymous subject to help them wank-off. just my humble opinion, of course.

I was just about to say that, but you beat me to it, LOL.

 

[JMohegan]

As you can tell from my join date, I'm new here. So if this topic has been beaten within an inch of its life, could someone post a link to that thread? Thanks!

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=668870

 

[KoPilot]

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=668870

You know, I have a good friend that I've been trying to figure out for years now, and I think that thread just about sums her up.

In our freshman year, I was chatting online with her one evening. She and I lived in separate dorms a few blocks away from each other, and just to be silly, I told her to go get me a soda (it's something of an injoke between another set of friends I have). She said okay, and said "lol I was just kidding". No reply. "No really, I was kidding you don't have to go get me a soda." Nothing. Lo and behold, about 10 minutes later, I get a call from her, saying she's in the foyer with a can of Dr. Pepper for me. "You gotta be fucking kidding me."

All in all, she's constantly being taken advantage of by her old friends from high school, unknowingly dating guys, and an extremely depressed person beyond her eerily chipper exterior. One of her life goals is to be a maid.

Hm.

 

[CutieMouse]

We are looking for subs who are a whore in the bedroom, a lady in the drawing room, an intelligent contributor on the message board, and a doormat when appropriate.

You rang?

 

[ownedsubgal]

You know, I have a good friend that I've been trying to figure out for years now, and I think that thread just about sums her up.

In our freshman year, I was chatting online with her one evening. She and I lived in separate dorms a few blocks away from each other, and just to be silly, I told her to go get me a soda (it's something of an injoke between another set of friends I have). She said okay, and said "lol I was just kidding". No reply. "No really, I was kidding you don't have to go get me a soda." Nothing. Lo and behold, about 10 minutes later, I get a call from her, saying she's in the foyer with a can of Dr. Pepper for me. "You gotta be fucking kidding me."

sounds depressingly familiar. i couldn't tell you how many times i've run off to instantly obey a command from someone which wasn't even serious. i was never able to sense when someone was joking around, or worse, just being cruel because they knew about my nature. still remember the junior high school bully who asked me to tie her shoe. i thought it was a strange thing to ask someone, and especially to ask me whom i knew she hated, but i put my books down and squatted on the floor and started tying. she kind of shrieks, and goes, "ugh, get off my feet! what is wrong with you?" with the most repulsed look on her face..and of course everyone thought it was soooo hilarious and laughed their butts off.


if only that crap had ended with junior high.

 

[chy_girl]

I think the crux of my concern was the mental doormat; not the physicality. I have never waited patiently at anyone's feet. I have envisioned doing so (sort-of-ish...but that's a topic for one of my stories). I was more concerned about people being berated for opinions...but as pointed out it's just like real world and the longer I hang out here, the more easy it will become to recognize the quality vs. the posers.

I know. But there's also a mental factor to physically kneeling before one's PYL(s) or sitting at their feet. It took me a long time to come to the conclusion inside myself that kneeling before my PYL(s) was not the same as bowing down to them. Sitting on the floor at their feet was not because I was less than. It was simply a physical expression of allowing them their control over me. Something that would demonstrate my deference to them. And, most importantly, it was where they wanted me. It became a source of comfort for me. A very safe spot that granted me the space to take one of those soul deep breaths for even just a minute. An external manifestation of an internal submissive desire, so to speak. Much like wearing my ex-Mistress' collar and leash, now that I think about it.

There are a surprising number of people who tend to confuse the physical acts of submission as allowing oneself to be a doormat and many think we do so because we pyl-types feel intrinsically inferior as human beings. And while that might be true for some, I've not seen it to be true for most. The submissive desire is a funny thing. One I've yet to figure out in any indepth way. It just feels right. And with the right PYL(s) it can feel amazing.

oh i totally own the doormat label now, and don't find it at all offensive, no matter how others may intend it.

now the problem you seem to be having is just running into assorted online jerks, which is an entirely different subject than your OP. there is a difference between a Dominant and some dude with no life who just happens to have an internet connection. these bums are not looking for a submissive at all (they would be absolutely terrified of one in the flesh), they are looking for an anonymous subject to help them wank-off. just my humble opinion, of course.

QFT! Especially when you start correcting their BDSM vocabulary and talking about the edgier play.

Who ever would have thought that a bunch of sweet, polite, meek little submissives could ever be so scary?

*snip*
if only that crap had ended with junior high.

 

[vegetablelamb]

removed

 

[Veroe]

There are a surprising number of people who tend to confuse the physical acts of submission as allowing oneself to be a doormat and many think we do so because we pyl-types feel intrinsically inferior as human beings. And while that might be true for some, I've not seen it to be true for most. The submissive desire is a funny thing. One I've yet to figure out in any indepth way. It just feels right. And with the right PYL(s) it can feel amazing.

I sometimes think that's the case, especially in this modern age where people are taught to cherish their freedom and independence and to be a slave is a fate worse than death. It's just hard to understand anyone willingly giving those up and handing control of their lives to someone else. The only asnwer some of the people in the world can come up with is that there's something deeply wrong with the person doing it either emotionally or mentally. Also to revile and villify the dominant as an overbearing, controlling, despotic sociopath.

Of course things and people especially are rarely ever so easily defined. I think its alot like what you just said for both submissive and dominant its tough for them to figure out in totality but the roles they've chosen one to give up their freedom and independence and the other to safekeep it just feels right to them.