Good Manners

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

it isn't the holidays that are making people angry in this thread.

I suppose it's polite to pretend so, though...

Meh. This is Internet Forums 101 stuff.

Nothing I haven't seen a million times before and will continue to see.

 

[KoPilot]

it would be cool to live in a world where female submissiveness outside the confines of yummy sexy fun was not regarded as a disease from which one needs to be cured

Replying to this, in conjunction with corroborating with what Netz said above that post.... yeah, it is entirely possible for someone's submissiveness to become a major fucking problem. And not just to them, but to the people around them.

Take my roommate for example. He is incapable of saying no to anybody. His girlfriend acts like a 12 year old twat and walks all over him. Yeah, sure, he's perfectly happy, but as soon as it becomes a problem for me (and it oftentimes does) I am going to harshly critique what I would consider a social dysfunction and berate the fuck out of him.

Guess where his doormat tendencies led? Let's see... he hosted a party in my apartment 2 years ago while subletting, and let his friend set a pile of garbage on fire in the unit because he couldn't muster the courage to tell him to GTFO.

He was preparing to let his girlfriend live with us (as in... 4 of us, in a unit designed for 3) without asking. He was under so much pressure by her, that he ended up lying to his parents about it, and lying to us about it, in order to sell the idea. She did not intend on paying any rent, bills, or contributing in any way. He was fine with this.

And now, the 4th tenant here wants to move out to go live with HIS girlfriend. The doormat roommate didn't think to discuss the notion any further than saying "okay", despite the fact that the 3 of us are still on the lease for another 6 months, and will either have to scramble to find another 4th, or absorb the costs of his flippant immaturity. This is the same roommate whom doormat ABSOLUTELY INSISTED live with us, because they were good friends, and he couldn't bear to have him look for a place on his own. He is the only reason we are in the apartment that we're in currently, and the only reason we all consented to pay what we're paying.

So, when you say that it's everyone else's fault for the negative repercussions of your "submissiveness", I don't buy it. Not one cent. Own your shit, please.

 

[Stella_Omega]

OK. Serious question for a second. It feels to me as if when we're taught to be polite it's only as a result of some good action occurring. We're never really taught to deal with the opposite kind of behavior. We're supposed to show we're the bigger person by letting others insult us...and get away with it. I dunno if it's my id talking (Freudian type id, not identification) but why is that polite and proper?

Mostly because it slows down the fire by not fueling it. If someone insults you, they have already shown themselves to be outside the pale, and your response won't make much difference-- in theory, but we all know that bullies will often back down if you return in kind.

In any case, I feel that not acknowledging someone's anger-- belittling it as D2MLG did just now, pretending it's not actually focused on anything legitimate-- is very bad manners. And that's true on and off forums.

it would be cool to live in a world where female submissiveness outside the confines of yummy sexy fun was not regarded as a disease from which one needs to be cured

It would be cool to hear you speak of submissiveness without the "female" qualifier.

And in my personal opinion-- outside of yummy sexy fun, "female submisiveness" is an insult to all the rest of the women of this world who battle daily for autonomy.

 

[JMohegan]

JMohegan, i do exist, and despite it being for some reason offensive to you, i am a submissive person. i have no earthly idea what you could you mean by "in the generalized D/s sense," of course. but i do know the definition of the word, i have a pretty good awareness of my own personality, and i understand D/s as a way of life, and for those reasons it is a place where i fit. the only place readily available to me as a modern non-religious american, though i absolutely recognize that there are various cultures and regions on this planet where being submissive (or Dominant for that matter) isn't such a terrible or remarkable thing.

you really seem to find a great deal of pleasure in painting me with the "disabled, dysfunctional" brush, in order to invalidate my opinions and viewpoints. i will admit without any shame whatsoever that i do battle a mental health disorder...major depression. it's been a sidekick most of my life.

but my submissiveness is not a disorder or dysfunction. and yes, i would define my drive to please others and extreme difficulty with rejecting others from early childhood onward as submissiveness. it is certainly not submissive in the kinky sense, but then i didn't think that kink defined such concepts. i have also known more than a few other submissive women...in the D/s lifestyle no less...with similar backgrounds. and they too have felt unaccepted by others in the lifestyle, and appreciate someone, anyone, from their side of the fence speaking up.

as for "board drama"...i hate it. if the attention isn't positive and productive, i don't want it. perhaps if yourself and certain others did not react with such disgust and vitriol every time i attempted to express a thought or opinion, then productive discussion could rule the day.

You can't have it both ways.

You can't post, on one thread, about how your life is "isolated," and "very protected and small," and how you are literally unable to say no to anyone, ever, and how you are so much of a walking target that your Daddy can't even leave you alone to go the bathroom in a restaurant for fear you'll wander off with some nefarious character..... and then turn around on another thread and expect to give plausible commentary on mainstream dating behavior, or the challenges of submissive and traditional women who not only CAN, but DO venture out unaccompanied.

It's as if you're paralyzed from the waist down, and offering commentary on preventing shin splints, or running with aging knees, or competing in the NY Marathon.

Further - it's as if you're assuming that said paralyzation is a natural part of the design of your gender.

It's not.

What you're saying is just plain wrong. That's why you get challenged on it. Whether you're saying it because you honestly just don't know what you don't know, or because you come here deliberately to stir up shit, it doesn't matter. If you say stuff that sounds outrageous, people will call you on it.

Particularly since many of your conclusions (e.g., husbands should be allowed to open bank accounts without spousal permission, but wives should not) align with attitudes that oppressed women for centuries, and against which women are still fighting.

 

[JMohegan]

I've always wanted things to go my way. I like being in control of things. I remember being like this since I was 3.

If I were to come on here and explain that because of this, I'm writing from jail after assaulting a police officer, I beat up a desk clerk with his phone at a hotel, and I flunked out of school because I would not tolerate the dictates of sitting at a desk quietly since kindergarten - would people rightfully assert that I had a fucking problem? Would my "inherent Dominance" be discussed or a pathological inability to navigate context?

If we're saying that it's tragic that the inherently deeply submissive people have to shape themselves the eensiest to mange a culture - and that means pretty much any culture, sorry - afghanistan you're good till your man gets killed by a mortar- there is no culture in the world in which you can survive with no personal boundaries or assertions.

But the degree to which a Dominant person - ANY Dominant person - needs to figure out how to cool their jets and deal with the world is - what, exactly?

Thank you.

 

[rosco rathbone]

, I beat up a desk clerk with his phone

ahaha classic

 

[ownedsubgal]

Just a nice short example of how osg likes to attempt to get a rise out of people by using the word "normal" in a highly inappropriate way.

um sorry, but in the sense of being something proven to commonly occur, female ejaculation is not normal. and in my personal opinion, which surely shouldn't mean a hill of beans to you, the idea of something like that is quite disgusting. that's not intended to be inflammatory, it's nothing more than the expression of an opinion on a topic which i would never respond to if not for boredom (and the fact that it was started by one of my idols). in other words, nothing more than you or anyone else who posts on internet message boards does on a daily basis.

 

[Netzach]

ahaha classic

Haha, I was thinking more Russel Crowe, but this too.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Haha, I was thinking more Russel Crowe, but this too.

Lord, I don't ask for fame or fortune, but just once, before I go to my grave, I would like to phone-whip some handjob in a public place and walk away scott free.

 

[Netzach]

Replying to this, in conjunction with corroborating with what Netz said above that post.... yeah, it is entirely possible for someone's submissiveness to become a major fucking problem. And not just to them, but to the people around them.

Take my roommate for example. He is incapable of saying no to anybody. His girlfriend acts like a 12 year old twat and walks all over him. Yeah, sure, he's perfectly happy, but as soon as it becomes a problem for me (and it oftentimes does) I am going to harshly critique what I would consider a social dysfunction and berate the fuck out of him.

Guess where his doormat tendencies led? Let's see... he hosted a party in my apartment 2 years ago while subletting, and let his friend set a pile of garbage on fire in the unit because he couldn't muster the courage to tell him to GTFO.

He was preparing to let his girlfriend live with us (as in... 4 of us, in a unit designed for 3) without asking. He was under so much pressure by her, that he ended up lying to his parents about it, and lying to us about it, in order to sell the idea. She did not intend on paying any rent, bills, or contributing in any way. He was fine with this.

And now, the 4th tenant here wants to move out to go live with HIS girlfriend. The doormat roommate didn't think to discuss the notion any further than saying "okay", despite the fact that the 3 of us are still on the lease for another 6 months, and will either have to scramble to find another 4th, or absorb the costs of his flippant immaturity. This is the same roommate whom doormat ABSOLUTELY INSISTED live with us, because they were good friends, and he couldn't bear to have him look for a place on his own. He is the only reason we are in the apartment that we're in currently, and the only reason we all consented to pay what we're paying.

So, when you say that it's everyone else's fault for the negative repercussions of your "submissiveness", I don't buy it. Not one cent. Own your shit, please.

This is a really good post. See also: overgrown boy douche passive aggro control stated above.

 

[Netzach]

Lord, I don't ask for fame or fortune, but just once, before I go to my grave, I would like to phone-whip some handjob in a public place and walk away scott free.

Yah. Preferably with his own iphone.

Sadly we will never have our way, being non celebrities. I guess the douches I want to phone whip are the alphas of the world.

 

[neci]

um sorry, but in the sense of being something proven to commonly occur, consensual slavery is not normal. and in my personal opinion, which surely shouldn't mean a hill of beans to you, the idea of something like that is quite disgusting. that's not intended to be inflammatory, it's nothing more than the expression of an opinion on a topic which i would never respond to if not for boredom (and the fact that it was started by one of my idols). in other words, nothing more than you or anyone else who posts on internet message boards does on a daily basis.

fyp

 

[ownedsubgal]

I've always wanted things to go my way. I like being in control of things. I remember being like this since I was 3.

If I were to come on here and explain that because of this, I'm writing from jail after assaulting a police officer, I beat up a desk clerk with his phone at a hotel, and I flunked out of school because I would not tolerate the dictates of sitting at a desk quietly since kindergarten - would people rightfully assert that I had a fucking problem? Would my "inherent Dominance" be discussed or a pathological inability to navigate context?

If we're saying that it's tragic that the inherently deeply submissive people have to shape themselves the eensiest to mange a culture - and that means pretty much any culture, sorry - afghanistan you're good till your man gets killed by a mortar- there is no culture in the world in which you can survive with no personal boundaries or assertions.

But the degree to which a Dominant person - ANY Dominant person - needs to figure out how to cool their jets and deal with the world is - what, exactly?

i don't shirk personal responsibility, and in fact i blame myself for most of the misfortune i've experienced in life...in the early part of my life it was plain ignorance...ignorance of my own nature and how that required making necessary adjustments in the way i went about daily life. but later, even after the lightbulb moment, the same types of things would still happen every now and again because i had it in my mind that if i set my brain to it i could be just like anybody else. like, i could go to work and go to the store and just keep my head down, the way a jillion other folks do all day everyday without difficulty. i didn't want to accept the fact that it was different for me. if i hadn't been so darn stubborn, i would have made those adjustments and workarounds a lot sooner, and a heck of a lot of crap never would have happened. but it was hard to accept that...kind of like the way a diabetic with a sweet-tooth has to accept the fact that they can't scarf down the double chocolate cheesecake although their buddies can, because for them it could mean a coma. and like they have to give up sweets, i had to give up any illusions about being able to live an independently functioning life. forget whether i even wanted such a life or not...it was a door closed, you can't have it, the end.

yeah, them's the breaks, i get that. is there something inherently wrong or selfish about wishing it just didn't have to be that way?

 

[ownedsubgal]

You can't have it both ways.

You can't post, on one thread, about how your life is "isolated," and "very protected and small," and how you are literally unable to say no to anyone, ever, and how you are so much of a walking target that your Daddy can't even leave you alone to go the bathroom in a restaurant for fear you'll wander off with some nefarious character..... and then turn around on another thread and expect to give plausible commentary on mainstream dating behavior, or the challenges of submissive and traditional women who not only CAN, but DO venture out unaccompanied.

what's having it both ways? yes, in comparison to most folks...my life is rather isolated and small. but it is still a life, and i am still a visible part of society (as stated before, i'm not on some commune). and because i am still a part of society...you know, going out in public, interacting with "normal" folks, etc...i don't see why my opinions are deemed irrelevant. i'm taken out to eat with perfectly vanilla men on a fairly regular basis. not men that see me as "crazy/weird/doormat/loser" and treat me accordingly, but men who actually see me as just a regular chick, and treat me accordingly. besides that i do actually keep abreast of so-called social "norms" by reading, observing, talking with people, etc.

also it shouldn't be forgotten that i am far from the only submissive person who deals/has dealt with the challenges of enforcing personal boundaries and staying safe. do you find the voice of certain types of submissive women valid and important, while others are not? because hey...challenge my beliefs and opinions, say i'm wrong, whatever...that's all part and parcel of this whole discussion board thing...but to say or imply that someone doesn't even have a valid perspective or opinion to offer, period, is just too far.

 

[where]

At some point in there, I know I qualified my statement. "A half dozen camp queens" is silly...I'm talking about tens of thousands of efeeminized upper-middle class men.

but again, you haven't given much evidence of this as it being something that is new and different.

Yeah, I'm unsure if others are keeping up with the exact implication. That said, it's a small upper income mainly white boy phenom. But it's definitely larger scale than Kybele seems to be willing to acknowledge.

I also think it's infantilized not eefeminized.

infantilization is a whole other ball game and yeah, I'll go along with society becoming infantilized.

OSG is giving her opinions, no theories, no plans of world domination, just her perspective. Why you feel you have to rip that to pieces I don’t understand. You may as well tell a kid that no, red is not your favorite balloon color, its green, and if you can’t see that then you’re discredited.

No, she very clearly stated that a particular behaviour was 'normal' in a vanilla context that's not an opinion. an opinion is her saying that she thinks the idea of eating cunt is so repulsive she'd rather eat vomit. Now that is not an opinion I share at all, but as she was making it a preference, then fair enough. I find scat repulsive. again opinion only and I'd not ridicule someone for being into it. Just not likely to want to hang with them is all.

Maybe you can show me this cutting and highly insulting remark in which she "misinterpret so-called 'vanilla' traditions".

can't be arsed to trawl the thread, but you have clearly been following and noting my dreadful bullying of the poor little thing, so you'll know it's her assertion that a man choosing and ordering a woman's food in a restaurant is perfectly normal.
If you absolutely must challenge her perspective, whatever, but the following was not the way to do it.



Not to mention when OSG attempts to better explain herself, you throw out comments such as.



And my favorite.



I find it rather ironic that bullying is the outcome of a discussion on manors, and with another discussion and passive aggressive behavior not too far in the distance. And yes, I see you bullying her.

You should really try out your own advice some time. That is “If you want respect, then maybe you should try respecting other people's opinions, hmmm?”

I really think you step over the line here. It was simply totally unnecessary.

It's ok, I have no problem with it being your opinion that I'm bullying osg. I do see that I am the lone voice in thinking that she's making absolutely ridiculous statements and not backing them up in any way whatsoever, but it is your opinion only. And when she makes opinion, I leave it go, it's when she states 'fact' that I challenge.

The thing is I didn’t catch OSG making any extreme suggestions. She just said how she perceives the word. That’s not an opinion on anything that has any consequence to anyone at all, that was just a picture of her little world.

maybe you should read more of her posts more clearly, particularly within the context of current western social mores and habits. But that is just my opinion. I do think an awful lot of her comments are so extreme that I wonder if it's deliberate hence my opinion that she's basically attention seeking.

 

[JMohegan]

do you find the voice of certain types of submissive women valid and important, while others are not? because hey...challenge my beliefs and opinions, say i'm wrong, whatever...that's all part and parcel of this whole discussion board thing...but to say or imply that someone doesn't even have a valid perspective or opinion to offer, period, is just too far.

I've addressed that question already.

http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=36048726&postcount=567

Repeatedly asking won't prompt me to change my answer.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's ok, I have no problem with it being your opinion that I'm bullying osg. I do see that I am one of several voices in thinking that she's making absolutely ridiculous statements and not backing them up in any way whatsoever, but it is your opinion only. And when she makes opinion, I leave it go, it's when she states 'fact' that I challenge.

Fixed that for you.

maybe you should read more of her posts more clearly, particularly within the context of current western social mores and habits. But that is just my opinion. I do think an awful lot of her comments are so extreme that I wonder if it's deliberate hence my opinion that she's basically attention seeking.

I agree with this opinion.

yeah, them's the breaks, i get that. is there something inherently wrong or selfish about wishing it just didn't have to be that way?

What's wrong and selfish is wishing it were that way for every woman.

You say you DON'T wish it for every woman-- better try real hard to write your posts more carefully, so you don't make people think that.

 

[teknight]

Fixed that for you.

I agree with this opinion.

I like Stella's version better, Kybs.

 

[00Syd]

fyp

Win

 

[bhndblueyes88]

um sorry, but in the sense of being something proven to commonly occur, female ejaculation is not normal. and in my personal opinion, which surely shouldn't mean a hill of beans to you, the idea of something like that is quite disgusting. that's not intended to be inflammatory, it's nothing more than the expression of an opinion on a topic which i would never respond to if not for boredom (and the fact that it was started by one of my idols). in other words, nothing more than you or anyone else who posts on internet message boards does on a daily basis.

Well it's a good thing that's not the definition of normal. When you're speaking about medical/biological "norms", then it's something that is natural to a body, although it might not be something all bodies have, that is not harmful to the body, or the result of a mutation.

There are biological and anatomical explanations for female ejaculation, if you bothered to look it up. Even if it is something that is rare, that doesn't make it ABNORMAL. When I ejaculate (I do, not that it's any of y'all's business ), my body suffers no harm. It is NOT urine (I know this because at one point I was on a medication that changed the color of my urine quite visibly).

By YOUR definition of "normal", redheads would be abnormal. So would people with green eyes. By YOUR definition of "normal", diabetes is also "normal", as is asthma, cancer and arthritis.

From a social definition, "normal" can mean usual (I think that works better than "common"), but female ejaculation is not a social phenomena. It is biological, so keep your social definitions away from my science. They are incorrect and misleading.

However, if you find it gross, that's your prerogative. Honestly, it sometimes grosses me out too I'm not a huge fan of messes, particularly if I have to sleep in them.

 

[teknight]

Well it's a good thing that's not the definition of normal. When you're speaking about medical/biological "norms", then it's something that is natural to a body, although it might not be something all bodies have, that is not harmful to the body, or the result of a mutation.

There are biological and anatomical explanations for female ejaculation, if you bothered to look it up. Even if it is something that is rare, that doesn't make it ABNORMAL. When I ejaculate (I do, not that it's any of y'all's business ), my body suffers no harm. It is NOT urine (I know this because at one point I was on a medication that changed the color of my urine quite visibly).

By YOUR definition of "normal", redheads would be abnormal. So would people with green eyes. By YOUR definition of "normal", diabetes is also "normal", as is asthma, cancer and arthritis.

From a social definition, "normal" can mean common, but female ejaculation is not a social phenomena. It's is biological, so keep your social definitions away from my science.

However, if you find it gross, that's your prerogative. Honestly, it sometimes grosses me out too

I'm gonna have to start wearing an overcoat around these threads! Kudos!

And your comment's not gonna make a lick of difference, I'm sorry to say.

 

[rosco rathbone]

but again, you haven't given much evidence of this as it being something that is new and different.

*shrug*

I know the evidence of my own two eyes; if you're not convinced I'll have to live with it. Netx calls it "infantilized", I call it efeeminized.

 

[teknight]

*shrug*

I know the evidence of my own two eyes; if you're not convinced I'll have to live with it. Netx calls it "infantilized", I call it efeeminized.

It's not that she's not convinced...it's that you've offered not a single statement as evidence for this feminization of society.
What have your own two eyes seen?

 

[rosco rathbone]

It's not that she's not convinced...it's that you've offered not a single statement as evidence for this feminization of society.
What have your own two eyes seen?

This isn't a deposition, babe.

 

[teknight]

This isn't a deposition, babe.

You're right. It's being difficult and obfuscating... but thanks for calling me a "babe." I don't get that often, what with being a man.