A Master's 'right' to play with others

[Black_Bunny]

I don't feel that he went overboard at all, possibly because it wasn't his first threesome. He always demonstrates a great deal of control so I don't think he'd ever go further than either of us are comfortable with. I think he knew that if he sat down with me and discussed it, me being given the choice, I would chicken out. But being gently thrown into it (with my wish regarding him and her to not have PIV sex being respected), I experienced a whole lot more than I would ever have done if it was up to me. He knows me well enough now to trust that I am not afraid to use the codeword and say "no, stuff this, I'm not doing this", and that I am depending on him to push my boundaries.

 

[praefect]

I'm curious to know how others view this. Is it an expected part of being a slave? Is it written into a contract? Do some set it as a definite 'no'? If it is practiced, how is it done? How does the pyl feel about it? How is she supposed to feel about it? And on a different tangent, what about introducing a third female when the pyl is not bi-curious?

My PYL and I are still sorting out how far our BDSM relationship is going to go (we were vanilla boyfriend and girlfriend first). I've told him I wanted a 24/7 D/s relationship, and may consider slavery in the future but not at this stage. I'm not one to feel pressured into doing anything I don't want to do, which is why I'm keen to set my limits now and then say "go for it". I'm sure things will change as the relationship progresses, so I guess I'm thinking more along the lines of, what will I allow now? Will I want to change that limit later?

I should maybe mention here that I'm divorced, and therefore not sure if I still believe in monogamy. If I was truly owned by someone, and knew for a certainty that he would come home to me and I was the only constant girl in his life, and that it was making him happy, maybe I could be ok with it...? Maybe it's a matter of, you're not a slave so you have your choice if it happens or not, or you are a slave so deal with it?

Please... I don't want to hear anything about 'committed versus casual BDSM' I'm thinking along the lines of a Master forever owning a slave, and having the right to occasionally play with other slaves... how does it work?

Yes, an expected part, one they know about. And she has a huge problem with it. It's the one thing left where no matter what, she will not seek surrender. If I slept with another woman I'd have to tie her up and then she would be a screaming and crying and oozing hatred from all her pores.

Not that this would stop me. What stops me is that I don't understand why she has this reaction, where that hatred comes from, and I'm not in the habit of messing with things I don't understand.

I promised her if it ever really became a problem for me I wouldn't let her freaking out stop me from doing what I wanted.

Well, I'm not in a hurry, and I'll get to the bottom of this yet.

It's not general jealousy. It's something that has to do with the power exchange somehow. Her husband is also my slave. She loves him. She really, really loves him. And if I would find a sub to somehow do a scene with him that involved him having sex with another woman while she watched, she'd be fine with that. She'd enjoy watching that. She would enjoy seeing him enjoy himself. If I would have her have sex with another woman it wouldn't be really pleasurable for her, but she'd do it, and she'd be fine doing it. So it's not a general hatred for all womankind either.

It's only the idea of me being involved with another woman that gives her crazy eyes. Somehow the rules applied to me are different because of my role, and as I said, I haven't got the slightest idea as to why. She has has no idea why either.

 

[rida]

*snip*
It's only the idea of me being involved with another woman that gives her crazy eyes. Somehow the rules applied to me are different because of my role, and as I said, I haven't got the slightest idea as to why. She has has no idea why either.

My take on it, as I'm familiar with a similar situation:

With her husband she knows she is the wife and that the other woman will not take her place.

With you she fears that the other woman will take her place as your sub or diminish her importance in your eyes are your sub.

 

[praefect]

I don't know. We're all committed to one another. We want to grow old together. A closed triad. In it for long haul. I'm not going anywhere, and she doesn't only know that intellectually, I have proven it by now that no matter what, I'm not leaving.

 

[rida]

I don't know. We're all committed to one another. We want to grow old together. A closed triad. In it for long haul. I'm not going anywhere, and she doesn't only know that intellectually, I have proven it by now that no matter what, I'm not leaving.

I'm sure you have proven it to her and that she understands it on an intellectual level. But it is still a pretty new arrangement, and it will take a little longer for her to truly internalize the fact that nobody will take her place.

But also, since you do not have a separate primary as she has a husband, I'm sure that sometime parts of her are wondering if she is not being selfish by not letting you have a "wife" of your own.

One step at the time, a little public play with another sub perhaps to show that at the end of the day you still "go home" with her might help her process her own fears a little bit at the time.

And if I'm totally out on left field with my assumptions, apologies.

 

[Etoile]

I can't tell if it's doubts about how he feels about me, or society's conditioning telling me it's not acceptable for my partner to be with another woman.

It could be either, of course, and it could be both. For me, I was okay with shaking off the conditioning, and we tried it. But the doubts smacked me in the face full-force, and I am NOT okay with it. Not everybody is built to be polyamorous. Those who are should definitely have the right/opportunity to be. Those who aren't, however, have the right not to be forced to be.

 

[eastern sun]

I think people sometimes use submission as a way to experience sexual activities and/or fantasies that they do not feel wholly comfortable owning/taking responsibility for/etc. i.e. I'm doing it because he's telling me to (not because I want to).

And it puts their partner in an awkward position, because it puts all the "potential for pleasing someone" in the submissive's role, and all the "potential for damaging someone" in the dominant's role.

I have struggled with this for years. And I still fail to take responsibility for my own desires. Because I am still uncomfortable with them.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I think people sometimes use submission as a way to experience sexual activities and/or fantasies that they do not feel wholly comfortable owning/taking responsibility for/etc. i.e. I'm doing it because he's telling me to (not because I want to).

And it puts their partner in an awkward position, because it puts all the "potential for pleasing someone" in the submissive's role, and all the "potential for damaging someone" in the dominant's role.

I have struggled with this for years. And I still fail to take responsibility for my own desires. Because I am still uncomfortable with them.

Smart masters know exactly what's going on with this.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I think people sometimes use submission as a way to experience sexual activities and/or fantasies that they do not feel wholly comfortable owning/taking responsibility for/etc. i.e. I'm doing it because he's telling me to (not because I want to).

And it puts their partner in an awkward position, because it puts all the "potential for pleasing someone" in the submissive's role, and all the "potential for damaging someone" in the dominant's role.

I have struggled with this for years. And I still fail to take responsibility for my own desires. Because I am still uncomfortable with them.

I've actually done a lot better in that regard after Mr shared some of his more distasteful fantasies with me.

It made me feel less alone, and more open in discussing mine, and my thoughts and feelings on them.

I still have a long way to go in that regard, but the window has been cracked open.

 

[Black_Bunny]

I think people sometimes use submission as a way to experience sexual activities and/or fantasies that they do not feel wholly comfortable owning/taking responsibility for/etc. i.e. I'm doing it because he's telling me to (not because I want to).

That's actually one reason I gave when I asked him to be my Dominant; because of my upbringing and past, I have always struggled with feeling guilty for enjoying sex, but when he controls me I am free of responsibility. I didn't see it as a bad thing, and he didn't seem to either. He is extremely aware of his responsibility in taking care not to damage me.

 

[FungiUg]

Sometimes I think we over-intellectualise this stuff.

Jealousy and insecurity are instinctual, emotional responses. Different people get them in different shapes and sizes. It's just how we're built as individuals that defines what happens there.

Deal with it on that level.

 

[Black_Bunny]

But "dealing with it" is different in a D/s relationship. If it were a vanilla relationship I doubt we would ever have a threesome, and if we did and he did things I felt uncomfortable with I would have had a go at him or something. Instead, I am submissive to him, and have requested him to push my boundaries, so how do I deal with the jealousy and insecurity then?

 

[eastern sun]

But "dealing with it" is different in a D/s relationship. If it were a vanilla relationship I doubt we would ever have a threesome, and if we did and he did things I felt uncomfortable with I would have had a go at him or something. Instead, I am submissive to him, and have requested him to push my boundaries, so how do I deal with the jealousy and insecurity then?

By overcoming your fear of jealousy and insecurity.

Most of the time, we are so uncomfortable with those feelings we try to avoid them at all costs. (By changing them into anger, defensiveness, or self-pity; by drinking, over-eating, or any other kind of numbing activity; or by avoiding any situation that will trigger them in the first place.)

If you sit down and feel the feelings thoroughly, you'll be able to see more clearly what their roots are (i.e. what you're scared of). If you can see what you're actually scared of (being alone, losing a competition, abandoning an idea that is linked to your self-integrity), it's easier to take action on your own to mitigate the potential problem.

I have found that one of the most fruitful results of playing with power exchange is the discovery of the very real power that I have, including its source, its potential and its limits.

 

[Etoile]

All "you" is the general you, not you as in Black_Bunny. Using "one" all the time gets clunky though.

But "dealing with it" is different in a D/s relationship. If it were a vanilla relationship I doubt we would ever have a threesome, and if we did and he did things I felt uncomfortable with I would have had a go at him or something. Instead, I am submissive to him, and have requested him to push my boundaries, so how do I deal with the jealousy and insecurity then?

I am a firm believer that decisions about opening a relationship to other partners should be made on equal territory. Polyamory can fuck your shit up if you're not on the same page. Dealing with it is NOT different just because one is submissive - this issue is so hard-wired you cannot get it out of you. If you allow things to happen that you're not comfortable with because "well, he is pushing my boundaries" or because "I'm the submissive, I have to let him do what he wants" then the relationship will sour very fast and you will be miserable.

I am dead serious about this. You are either okay with it, or you are not. If you are only okay with it because he's the dom then you are asking for a fuckton of heartache down the line.

Voice of experience here, but also common sense. Going along with any practice that you don't like just for his sake is going to cause a lot of misery. I fully expect any couple would give it the old "college try" to see how it works...who knows, maybe a girl who hates anal will turn into an ass slut with enough work. But if you've tried it out and you don't like it, and you keep going, kiss your happiness goodbye.

Added: Consider non-preferred sexuality instead of polyamory, if you want. If you really are not interested in girls, and he wants to watch you do it with a girl, then you can do it, but your dislike of the practice is going to eat away at you and make you miserable unless you talk about it and come to an agreement.

 

[rida]

I think people sometimes use submission as a way to experience sexual activities and/or fantasies that they do not feel wholly comfortable owning/taking responsibility for/etc. i.e. I'm doing it because he's telling me to (not because I want to).

And it puts their partner in an awkward position, because it puts all the "potential for pleasing someone" in the submissive's role, and all the "potential for damaging someone" in the dominant's role.

I have struggled with this for years. And I still fail to take responsibility for my own desires. Because I am still uncomfortable with them.

I think that for me submission is a way to fully embrace my insecurities, my fears and jealousy. It is not because I need an excuse to experience sexuality outside of "light off, fully clothed, missionary sex", but more to allow myself to experience "emotional suffering".

The bolded part is actually one of the appeal for me of the M/s dynamic, and also one of the reason I'm realizing I cannot have M/s within the marriage. And why I cannot do without my outside Sadist.

Within the marriage, as a submissive I can have the "potential for pleasing someone", but I have to go out of it and with the Sadist to be able to have the "potential for damaging" part (with a stress on "potential" in this latest statement).

All "you" is the general you, not you as in Black_Bunny. Using "one" all the time gets clunky though.

I am a firm believer that decisions about opening a relationship to other partners should be made on equal territory. Polyamory can fuck your shit up if you're not on the same page. Dealing with it is NOT different just because one is submissive - this issue is so hard-wired you cannot get it out of you. If you allow things to happen that you're not comfortable with because "well, he is pushing my boundaries" or because "I'm the submissive, I have to let him do what he wants" then the relationship will sour very fast and you will be miserable.

I am dead serious about this. You are either okay with it, or you are not. If you are only okay with it because he's the dom then you are asking for a fuckton of heartache down the line.

Voice of experience here, but also common sense. Going along with any practice that you don't like just for his sake is going to cause a lot of misery. I fully expect any couple would give it the old "college try" to see how it works...who knows, maybe a girl who hates anal will turn into an ass slut with enough work. But if you've tried it out and you don't like it, and you keep going, kiss your happiness goodbye.

Added: Consider non-preferred sexuality instead of polyamory, if you want. If you really are not interested in girls, and he wants to watch you do it with a girl, then you can do it, but your dislike of the practice is going to eat away at you and make you miserable unless you talk about it and come to an agreement.

QFT

 

[FungiUg]

But "dealing with it" is different in a D/s relationship.

Can't imagine why. You still have to deal with the issues of communication, drama, coordination, safety (safe sex, safe play, etc), learning each other... the D/s aspect is in there somewhere, sure, but I'd say the other factors outweigh it.

Yeah, D/s may help prompt you to get out and do stuff, but the things you need to deal with are the people and how they interact on all levels, not just D/s.

 

[Etoile]

Can't imagine why. You still have to deal with the issues of communication, drama, coordination, safety (safe sex, safe play, etc), learning each other... the D/s aspect is in there somewhere, sure, but I'd say the other factors outweigh it.

Yeah, D/s may help prompt you to get out and do stuff, but the things you need to deal with are the people and how they interact on all levels, not just D/s.

Er...yeah. That's what I meant when I got all long-winded.

 

[FungiUg]

Polyamory can fuck your shit up if you're not on the same page.

Too damned right!

I've seen too many people claim that BDSM and polyamory go hand in hand. Not in my experience. They are different things entirely.

Tread cautiously here. Just because you are into D/s doesn't mean polyamory is right for you.

Relationships are made up of people, and every person (whatever colour or creed or D/s status) is inherently equal. The whole point of a relationship is to give the participants what they need and want from each other. One of those needs is security. For some people, polyamory can blow that right out of the water.

 

[FungiUg]

Er...yeah. That's what I meant when I got all long-winded.

Yeah, but if you weren't, we wouldn't get to boggle in amazement at words like "fuckton".

 

[Black_Bunny]

Most of the time, we are so uncomfortable with those feelings we try to avoid them at all costs. (By changing them into anger, defensiveness, or self-pity; by drinking, over-eating, or any other kind of numbing activity; or by avoiding any situation that will trigger them in the first place.)

If you sit down and feel the feelings thoroughly, you'll be able to see more clearly what their roots are (i.e. what you're scared of). If you can see what you're actually scared of (being alone, losing a competition, abandoning an idea that is linked to your self-integrity), it's easier to take action on your own to mitigate the potential problem.

I have found that one of the most fruitful results of playing with power exchange is the discovery of the very real power that I have, including its source, its potential and its limits.

Thank you, that is some great advice. Lots to think about.

All "you" is the general you, not you as in Black_Bunny. Using "one" all the time gets clunky though.

I am a firm believer that decisions about opening a relationship to other partners should be made on equal territory. Polyamory can fuck your shit up if you're not on the same page. Dealing with it is NOT different just because one is submissive - this issue is so hard-wired you cannot get it out of you. If you allow things to happen that you're not comfortable with because "well, he is pushing my boundaries" or because "I'm the submissive, I have to let him do what he wants" then the relationship will sour very fast and you will be miserable.

I am dead serious about this. You are either okay with it, or you are not. If you are only okay with it because he's the dom then you are asking for a fuckton of heartache down the line.

Voice of experience here, but also common sense. Going along with any practice that you don't like just for his sake is going to cause a lot of misery. I fully expect any couple would give it the old "college try" to see how it works...who knows, maybe a girl who hates anal will turn into an ass slut with enough work. But if you've tried it out and you don't like it, and you keep going, kiss your happiness goodbye.

Added: Consider non-preferred sexuality instead of polyamory, if you want. If you really are not interested in girls, and he wants to watch you do it with a girl, then you can do it, but your dislike of the practice is going to eat away at you and make you miserable unless you talk about it and come to an agreement.

I understand and agree with what you say Etoile. For M/s relationships, meaning an owned slave in the way that ownedsubgal is, I would think that no actually she doesn't have a say in the matter. And I guess that's one of the reasons I choose not to enter that type of slavery, so yes I do have a say in it, in fact my Dominant has said I must have a say in it. I have no doubt that if I said to him, "ok, we've tried it, I don't want to do it again" then he would absolutely respect that. Of my experience, there were only a few things here and there that I felt uncomfortable with, the rest of it was fine. I suppose it's like I want to allow him to have other partners, I want to be able to have a threesome without a twinge of jealousy. I want to have that absolute certainty that I am his constant girl, but my jealousies and insecurities always get the better of me.

From what he told me, it's highly unlikely that he will ever want to play with someone else, so now I'm just dealing with my issues raised from having the threesome.

 

[Etoile]

For M/s relationships, meaning an owned slave in the way that ownedsubgal is, I would think that no actually she doesn't have a say in the matter.

I agree with you. However, osg's relationship is the exception to pretty much every rule.

 

[Black_Bunny]

You still have to deal with the issues of communication, drama, coordination, safety (safe sex, safe play, etc), learning each other... the D/s aspect is in there somewhere, sure, but I'd say the other factors outweigh it.

Yeah, D/s may help prompt you to get out and do stuff, but the things you need to deal with are the people and how they interact on all levels, not just D/s.

I've seen too many people claim that BDSM and polyamory go hand in hand. Not in my experience. They are different things entirely.

Tread cautiously here. Just because you are into D/s doesn't mean polyamory is right for you.

Relationships are made up of people, and every person (whatever colour or creed or D/s status) is inherently equal. The whole point of a relationship is to give the participants what they need and want from each other. One of those needs is security. For some people, polyamory can blow that right out of the water.

I know being in a D/s relationship doesn't equal polyamory. I just want to allow my partner to have some damn fun, with me as well, as part of a threesome, without me getting all emotional about shit that I shouldn't be worrying about. I want freedom from my own fucking emotions!

Dammit, where's the crying emoticon.

 

[FungiUg]

I know being in a D/s relationship doesn't equal polyamory. I just want to allow my partner to have some damn fun, with me as well, as part of a threesome, without me getting all emotional about shit that I shouldn't be worrying about. I want freedom from my own fucking emotions!

Dammit, where's the crying emoticon.

Gotcha.

Um... you could practice by chopping onions? When you can chop an onion without crying, you're ready.

For myself, I've discovered there's what I want, and there's who I am. The two don't always equate, and I find I have the best successes where I take into account my own limitations and realities.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I agree with you. However, osg's relationship is the exception to pretty much every rule.

heyyyyy now! lol

i actually don't think my relationship is so unusual in the non-BDSM M/s world. it's just that here on lit we've never had many voices coming from that side.

 

[Black_Bunny]

heyyyyy now! lol

i actually don't think my relationship is so unusual in the non-BDSM M/s world. it's just that here on lit we've never had many voices coming from that side.

That's what I thought too - after my research I came on here with all this slavery stuff in my head, to be told that actually majority of people don't practice it that way.