A Master's 'right' to play with others

[Cattypuss]

I'm agnostic. What I hate most is the assumption that people who don't claim to know the big answers are somehow devoid of integrity or ethical grounding.

Dude, move to the UK with Stella

I once had a convo with an (American) Christian who could NOT understand how an atheist could have a moral code. She actually said to me "If you know you're not going to get any reward in heaven, why bother doing good?". That question was an opening of a window into a moral viewpoint that frankly shocked me.

[obligatory disclaimer - I know that she was probably in a minority amongst Christians in her moral outlook]

 

[CutieMouse]

That's like when my last relationship ended, a coworker told me she was sad I was upset about it, but she'd been praying for things to not work out... Because I deserve better than an athiest.

 

[Cattypuss]

That's like when my last relationship ended, a coworker told me she was sad I was upset about it, but she'd been praying for things to not work out... Because I deserve better than an athiest.

LOL!!!!

 

[JMohegan]

Dude, move to the UK with Stella

I once had a convo with an (American) Christian who could NOT understand how an atheist could have a moral code. She actually said to me "If you know you're not going to get any reward in heaven, why bother doing good?". That question was an opening of a window into a moral viewpoint that frankly shocked me.

[obligatory disclaimer - I know that she was probably in a minority amongst Christians in her moral outlook]

What's funny is that you've got an officially sanctioned state church, topped by the Queen herself! Whereas we have legal separation of church and state, but an environment in which no openly agnostic or atheist person could dream of winning a national election.


ETA to CM - HAHAHA!!

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... I deserve better than an athiest.

But you do!

Unfortunately you aren't into poly.

 

[Homburg]

Dude, move to the UK with Stella

I once had a convo with an (American) Christian who could NOT understand how an atheist could have a moral code. She actually said to me "If you know you're not going to get any reward in heaven, why bother doing good?". That question was an opening of a window into a moral viewpoint that frankly shocked me.

[obligatory disclaimer - I know that she was probably in a minority amongst Christians in her moral outlook]

And it drives me crazy that the label "American" means I get lumped in with wackaloons like this. It would drive me rabidly crazy if it weren't for the fact that I can go outside, look around, and know immediately why people would see Americans this way.

This view is so blinkered that I sputter when faced by it. The ignorance is so intensely overwhelming that I don't know where to start.

 

[Cattypuss]

And it drives me crazy that the label "American" means I get lumped in with wackaloons like this. It would drive me rabidly crazy if it weren't for the fact that I can go outside, look around, and know immediately why people would see Americans this way.

This view is so blinkered that I sputter when faced by it. The ignorance is so intensely overwhelming that I don't know where to start.

S'okay... we know you're not all the same

 

[Stella_Omega]

Dude, move to the UK with Stella

I once had a convo with an (American) Christian who could NOT understand how an atheist could have a moral code. She actually said to me "If you know you're not going to get any reward in heaven, why bother doing good?". That question was an opening of a window into a moral viewpoint that frankly shocked me.

[obligatory disclaimer - I know that she was probably in a minority amongst Christians in her moral outlook]

She's among the majority, actually.

On my local main street, I count eleven churches of the kind that are built to be churches... you know, with the billboard out front with some inspirational thought that the minister changes when he gets a new notion.

And maybe another fifteen storefront ministries.

Oh, JM, I call myself queer because I am attracted to men... pretty damn often-- just-- not het men so much.

 

[Homburg]

S'okay... we know you're not all the same

I live in the Bible Belt. It is tough for me not to think that my country is chock slam full of religious nutjobs even if I'm not one.

Note - I'm totally fine with non-nutjob religious people, and there are plenty. And, honestly, I appreciate the conviction and good works done by the nutjobs. I just don't want their religion on me.

--

She's among the majority, actually.

On my local main street, I count eleven churches of the kind that are built to be churches... you know, with the billboard out front with some inspirational thought that the minister changes when he gets a new notion.

And maybe another fifteen storefront ministries.

The ones that make me sick are the megachurches what have spent millions of dollars on the building and then another $110K on the giant electronic video board outside to tell folks about thursday's pot luck. How many hungry people could be fed for the cost of that sign?

 

[Cattypuss]

 

[satindesire]

Yeah, exactly.

And what's even sadder is how many people respond to that church like it's a shiny new toy. The upper middle class folks will blindly start going there because God Forbid they park their BMW in front of a broken down old beat-up Church like the rest of the peasants in this city.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Yeah, exactly.

And what's even sadder is how many people respond to that church like it's a shiny new toy. The upper middle class folks will blindly start going there because God Forbid they park their BMW in front of a broken down old beat-up Church like the rest of the peasants in this city.

What's sad to me isn't that the new shiny new church is so popular, it's that there are so many of the things in the first place.

 

[FungiUg]

I wanna go to a dungeon... I don't think they even exist in Adelaide

Visit Melbourne or Sydney.

 

[sb2009]

I've seen a zillion arguments over the idea that atheists/agnostics/people who don't give a fuck and how they can't possibly be have MORALS because "morals come from God."

 

[FungiUg]

Move to the UK and cross one of those "labels" off your list - we think atheism is entirely normal over here

I've been a self-proclaimed atheist for at least 20 years and nobody here has ever batted an eyelid

New Zealand does okay. My best friend is an athiest, I'm agnostic. At one point my ex-partner was teaching religious education, and the two of us were her advisers.

We do get a few older people going on about how this was a "christian" country, but the reality is we have every religion under the sun knocking about.

Oh, and we have civil union, a legal alternative to marriage for gay couples (or poly groups.)

Sadly, just because we live in the most gorgeous country on earth doesn't mean the people aren't just as silly.

 

[satindesire]

I've seen a zillion arguments over the idea that atheists/agnostics/people who don't give a fuck and how they can't possibly be have MORALS because "morals come from God."

I don't believe that for a second. Religion comes from people and is inherently flawed, like everything that humanity does. As a Christian, I am no better off in the morals department than ANYONE else. Pretty much all religions have the same vein of truth in them anyway...be loving, compassionate and charitable, and you will be rewarded.

I can't stand people who act like they're somehow better than someone else because of what they believe is the right way of believing.

I totally understand how that kind of attitude can frustrate someone.

 

[KoPilot]

I'm deist. What's uuuup with that? /laughtrack

Anyways, I don't think I ever said my bit in response to what this thread is ACTUALLY supposed to be about, and that bit is this: I couldn't ever do it, because my emotions don't multi-task very well. I'm the kind of person to thrive when I've got ONE major project going on, a FEW of close friends versus a billion like some people are capable of, and ONE partner that gets my full attention and devotion.

That, and I've got abandonment issues too.

Some people are just wired differently, and so I think that having your own definition of what love is kind of goes hand in hand with that. Personally, being in a poly or open relationship (especially if it's one-sided) barely even computes in relation to how I mentally and emotionally operate in a way that's healthy for me. Who knows, though. I might not be saying this in 20 or 30 years, but right now, this is the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[unsettled]

Is this how threads usually evolve, I came in regularly about a month ago... *ahem* I love it!

I am new to this (BDSM, forums...) and have learned a lot in just this thread. I am trying to help my husband understand my interests in BDSM and have been talking about an open relationship for the four years we have been married. I guess when I told him all my interests before we got married he didn't think I was serious and is having a hard time accepting it.

Thank you for the book recommendations and the links, they are tremendously helpful.

Also, in regard to the crazy Christians... I grew up in a town with only Christians and didnt have any idea about other religions really until college. As I have expanded my knowlegde of the world around me, I have come to think there are many paths to God and we have no right to judge. Unfortunately, humanity will never learn, history continually teaches us that. The thing that disurbs me most about Christianity is the fact that it has been formed and altered by politicians and religious leaders to manipulate people and bend their will.

 

[Keroin]

New Zealand does okay. My best friend is an athiest, I'm agnostic. At one point my ex-partner was teaching religious education, and the two of us were her advisers.

We do get a few older people going on about how this was a "christian" country, but the reality is we have every religion under the sun knocking about.

Oh, and we have civil union, a legal alternative to marriage for gay couples (or poly groups.)

Sadly, just because we live in the most gorgeous country on earth doesn't mean the people aren't just as silly.

Kiwis are silly as.

Canada's pretty laid back in the religion department, too, and gay marriage is legal here as well.

When I lived in the Bahamas, the religion was full on crazy. They used to play fire and brimstone sermons over the loud speaker at the grocery store.

Announcer: "YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FIRE AND SUFFER ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!"

Me: I just want to buy some beans.

 

[FungiUg]

Announcer: "YOU WILL BURN IN HELL FIRE AND SUFFER ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!"

Me: I just want to buy some beans.

Chilli beans?

 

[Keroin]

Chilli beans?

Yeppers.

 

[Black_Bunny]

Visit Melbourne or Sydney.

I've definitely thought about going to Melbourne to visit a dungeon... but I worry that either it will be crap and I will have wasted my money, or it will be great and I won't have the money to keep visiting

 

[CutieMouse]

But you do!

Unfortunately you aren't into poly.

But he was a lower-case atheist, not an Upper-case Atheist. With 2 Masters degrees and an AbD in divinity.

And we could lay there in this tangled pile of post-sex nakedness and talk about evolutionary biology, and philosophy, and theology from a historical perspective, and cooking, and architecture... randomly interspersed with insanely rough sex... only man I've ever met who could keep up with me in bed, actually... *sigh*

 

[Black_Bunny]

Ok, so I'm posting this here because it has to do with an aspect in my opening post; about introducing a third person.

Last weekend we had our first threesome with one of my female friends. It wasn't planned, although we all had discussed it before. My friend was adamant that she wasn't going to do anything with my Dominant, since he is my boyfriend. He didn't push that either, so most (but not all) of the activity was him ordering me and my friend to do things to each other, which was fine. Some moments here and there though I thought to myself, hang on, we haven't really discussed this, I'm letting my boyfriend finger some other girl! I still feel like I am very much his only girl, and he didn't push me too far, just enough to get me past my inhibitions (as I'd never been with a girl before).

It still feels weird when I think about it (the parts involving him and her), it actually doesn't really bother me all that much, but I am struggling with a few niggling feelings - I can't tell if it's doubts about how he feels about me, or society's conditioning telling me it's not acceptable for my partner to be with another woman.

 

[Stella_Omega]

For me I tend to assume by default, that it's society conditioning you (and him as well) that monogamy is the only acceptable way. And because you've both accepted that conditioning, what I sometimes have witnessed, is one of the parties kinda going overboard when they get the chance to explore. Further than the other party is comfortable with, and sometimes further than they are comfortable with, as well.

Does that worry you, BB?