Book-burning, BDSM and the "One True (Casual) Way"

[BLoved]

As promised, all of my material has been deleted.

I trust the "book burners" will be pleased.

 

[CutieMouse]

Are you implying *I* am a "book burner"? Seriously? Do you have any clue who you are lumping into that ginormous cesspool of generalization? LOL

By the way (and for the record) I don't believe you are a Troll, and support your right to write, post, say, or express whatever you wish - and have from the moment we began this non-conversation.

I am terribly sorry to hear you have deleted your writings. Actually I feel it to be a rather cowardly act - if you truly believe the seriousness of your warnings and advice to those submissives incapable of protecting themselves (or weeding out the idiots), then by deleting your writings how exactly did you solve your complaint about "mob rule" silencing the minority?

No one forced your to delete your writings - you chose to delete them. Which means you censored yourself.

For the third time -

I think this might be part of where I'm feeling a hiccup. I would sincerely ask you to please help me grasp what is unethical about my current relationship (for example).

We have been seeing one another for almost 3 months now. Neither one of us is married. After dating for a month or so we both decided to stop seeing anyone else (even casually). Prior to that decision, we discussed the fact that there may be other people in our lives, and made sure we each felt okay with that. On our fourth date he asked me if four dates was enough to get a goodnight kiss; I said no. If he was that interested he could wait until I felt comfortable/safe enough with him to be intimate - he was interested enough to wait until I felt comfortable and safe. Neither of us wants to marry or live together. When either of us has an emotional/mental/spiritual/physical "hiccup" - we talk openly and honestly about it. Neither one of us believes in "True Love" "The One" or anything like that. The idea of going to clubs and dungeons and such bores us to tears, so we don't. Fabulously laid back sort of thing, really... we're actually developing one hell of a fabulous friendship.

So from that description, could you please tell me what is unethical about my non-love based D/s relationship?

Although I should ad that the gentleman in question and I met through an online personals ad, placed on an "alternative" (although not BDSM based) website... which might even increase the "casual" meter a bit, come to think of it.

 

[Primalex]

http://www.zagura.ro/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/god-kills-kitten-troll.jpg

 

[MisterSir]

Dude, book burning is SO 1900s. We burn DVDs and CDs in the 21st century.

 

[FurryFury]

I'm against burning books and the "one true" anything. Casual sounds good. I prefer blue jeans, sneakers and a T most of the time myself.

 

[chy_girl]

*snip*
I prefer blue jeans, sneakers and a T most of the time myself.

I like the t-shirt that says "Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics."

I need to order another one soon. The last got worn apart. And let's face it, it would make the perfect subbie shirt for after the scene when my People take me out to play.

 

[the captians wench]

I like the t-shirt that says "Never do anything you wouldn't want to explain to the paramedics."

I need to order another one soon. The last got worn apart. And let's face it, it would make the perfect subbie shirt for after the scene when my People take me out to play.

I love it!

Of course I'm willing to tell people a lot more than most are willing to share with strangers, so that doesn't limit me much.

 

[chy_girl]

I love it!

Of course I'm willing to tell people a lot more than most are willing to share with strangers, so that doesn't limit me much.

LOL

99Volts.com - snotty-shirt headquarters, baby! Now if they'd just go back to giving black writing as an option it would be even better.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

http://www.stickycomics.com/wp-content/uploads/censorship_pencil.jpg

Self-censorship is infanticide. Please consider putting your stuff back up, BLoved.

I think what threw people was that you were so vehement in your views, at every opportunity, but completely unwilling to discuss them. If you're going to insist that yours is the only way, then I think it's reasonable to expect that people will want you to elaborate on and defend that position.

 

[CurlyKat]

Dude, book burning is SO 1900s. We burn DVDs and CDs in the 21st century.

*snort*

 

[eastern sun]

I hope you stay.

 

[where]

As promised, all of my material has been deleted.

I trust the "book burners" will be pleased.

the reason you were whining on the gb about getting your stuff deleted was because you got a bit of a critique?

fucking wimp. Man up, for god's sake!

 

[rosco rathbone]

Are you implying *I* am a "book burner"? Seriously? Do you have any clue who you are lumping into that ginormous cesspool of generalization? LOL

By the way (and for the record) I don't believe you are a Troll, and support your right to write, post, say, or express whatever you wish - and have from the moment we began this non-conversation.

I am terribly sorry to hear you have deleted your writings. Actually I feel it to be a rather cowardly act - if you truly believe the seriousness of your warnings and advice to those submissives incapable of protecting themselves (or weeding out the idiots), then by deleting your writings how exactly did you solve your complaint about "mob rule" silencing the minority?

No one forced your to delete your writings - you chose to delete them. Which means you censored yourself.

For the third time -



Although I should ad that the gentleman in question and I met through an online personals ad, placed on an "alternative" (although not BDSM based) website... which might even increase the "casual" meter a bit, come to think of it.

You are too easy, QT Mouse. This drama queen gets your knickers in a twist without breaking a sweat.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

the reason you were whining on the gb about getting your stuff deleted was because you got a bit of a critique?

fucking wimp. Man up, for god's sake!

Apparently he was downrated without being read.

Honestly, I tried to read the stuff, but the monotonous just wore me down and I gave up.

If it had actually been interesting to read, rather than a list of random statements, and he was willing to go to bat for his beliefs rather than assuming we're morons for not immediately bowing down to his point of view (because I don't know how 'please talk to us about your views' = 'we're trying to silence you"), we might have actually been able to have a decent discussion about it.

 

[where]

Apparently he was downrated without being read.

Honestly, I tried to read the stuff, but the monotonous just wore me down and I gave up.

If it had actually been interesting to read, rather than a list of random statements, and he was willing to go to bat for his beliefs rather than assuming we're morons for not immediately bowing down to his point of view (because I don't know how 'please talk to us about your views' = 'we're trying to silence you"), we might have actually been able to have a decent discussion about it.

well people can be harsh in their voting and it sucks to get low votes just because someone doesn't like the way a story ends. I still get hate mail about one story because I didn't fetishise the main character's disability and I think anyone writing in the loving wive's cat, must be a masochist.

However, given that he doesn't really seem able to stand by his statements or debate his points, I'll stick with him being a wimp.

 

[eastern sun]

Apparently he was downrated without being read.

Honestly, I tried to read the stuff, but the monotonous just wore me down and I gave up.

If it had actually been interesting to read, rather than a list of random statements, and he was willing to go to bat for his beliefs rather than assuming we're morons for not immediately bowing down to his point of view (because I don't know how 'please talk to us about your views' = 'we're trying to silence you"), we might have actually been able to have a decent discussion about it.

Check out his "Love" series, for a more interesting read. It's the fantasy-base that informs the essays. (At least, that's how I interpreted it.)

 

[Etoile]

I guess I missed a visit from the drama llama
Wait, there he goes now!

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

LOL

Even the GB called him a troll.

 

[BLoved]

Are you implying *I* am a "book burner"?

From Weakness

[hijack]

This is a whole thread topic in and of itself... actually we haven't had a good meaty discussion of this sort of thing (without derailing another thread) in a while.

I won't post my views of the opinions expressed here, and am off to work out before going into the shop, but I for one would be willing to discuss "casual BDSM/predators/True Love/etc" in a separate thread. And by separate thread I do not mean a posting of links of BL's writings. I mean a discussion.

(Posted publicly as BL apparently has PMs turned off.)

[/hijack]

~smile~

I'm in.

So start the thread and begin debating your position on the matter.

~smile~

Being the newcomer, and considering the response I've received so far, I'd rather not start up a thread where the primary focus will be the slinging of mud in my direction.

As it was your idea, I think it only fitting you start the thread.

A) Disagreement and debate is not the same as mudslinging.
B) I don't wish to put words in your mouth; however, if you insist I can gather your posts thus far (and reference your writings) to do so.
C) You've had no problem expressing your views in a thread not dedicated to your pet subject (True Love & BDSM as best I can tell); I am at a loss as to why you would find doing so in a place expressly dedicated to the task so onerous.

.. however, given that you've been given ample time (IMO) to create a thread that could genuinely contribute to the forum, and haven't done so I'll see what I can do. I'm generous that way.

(I do feel regardless of outcome the topic has some potential to be interesting/enlightening.)

From Debating a Few Philosophies of BDSM - Love, Kink, Lust, Etc

The OP (and keeping in mind that when you presented the idea to me you said "And by separate thread I do not mean a posting of links of BL's writings."):

Reference BLoved's writings for the anti-"casual BDSM" view -

Casual BDSM and Emotional Abuse

... and his other writings for the "True Love" view -

Love and Respect

So... debate away my dears... debate away.

(And full disclaimer - I've only briefly skimmed the writings above. I might eventually read them for the sake of debate, or I might not. I haven't decided yet.)

"Parties"

...

Bullshit.
Bullshit.
Bullshit.

... and I'm off for ice cream with the roommate. Possibly back later; I've not yet decided.

I have triple chocolate cheesecake ice cream now, and the energy to continue point by point has gone "poof!"

I just... this stuff isn't black and white. I don't do one night stands. I tried it a time or two and the sex was horrible because there wasn't any connection. But at the same time, there was a mountain of emotionally abusive bullshit thrown at me in my last D/s relationship - all in the name of "True Love".

I read all these statements, written as if Universal Truths, sitting here as a (pardon the immodesty) a seriously kick ass desirable submissive, who assesses situations from an ethical standpoint instead of a moral one... and keep thinking WTH? This does not apply. This is not reality. This viewpoint is not automatically safe just because it sounds authoritative.

Possibly... maybe the tone I read into the writings set me off. I freely admit whenever someone tosses out a BDSM = Love / Love = BDSM (capital "L") blahblahblah argument I get irritated. Actually I get pissed off. Old baggage.

I want to understand where those views come from (the ones opposite of mine). I want to be able to wrap my head around them on some level, or argue the counterpoint, or reach a place of understanding or compromise or something... or maybe I'm getting worked up and having an argument that I can't have in real life.

Hmmm... how enlightening.

In response to Eastern Guru's questions:

My first exposure to casual 'bdsm' was through conversations with the victims, of which there were quite a few. Their stories were remarkably similar and always involved casual players taking advantage of their naivete.

My wife was one of those victimized, as was my current beloved.

Through participation on forums such as this I witnessed the players in action first-hand. It did not take long to determine their disinterest in ethical considerations of any kind, and their willingess to victimize anyone to get what they want.

Their immaturity and disregard for the well-being of others is obvious.

Their inability to tolerate those with opposing views, their insistence that everyone must condone their practice, their need to silence opposition and the manner in which they achieved this have been demonstrated to my satisfaction far too often. This thread itself is essentially an effort to demonize me, hidden under the guise of a 'debate'.

~shrug~

Casual players are intent on portraying casual 'bdsm' as the "One True Way" and anyone who disagrees with casual 'bdsm' should be publicly eviscerated as an example to anyone with similar views.

You will note, for example, this thread is not properly labelled, nor does it occur in BDSM Cafe where CM made the suggestion of starting a "discussion":

"This is a whole thread topic in and of itself... actually we haven't had a good meaty discussion of this sort of thing (without derailing another thread) in a while.

I won't post my views of the opinions expressed here, and am off to work out before going into the shop, but I for one would be willing to discuss "casual BDSM/predators/True Love/etc" in a separate thread. And by separate thread I do not mean a posting of links of BL's writings. I mean a discussion."

Obviously what CM had in mind was a 'let's bash BLoved because he doesn't agree with us' and those whose immaturity has already been noted in threads in BDSM Cafe have demonstrated their eagerness to participate.

...

I have found that a lengthy interview process is required before determining whether someone is capable of sustaining a bdsm relationship. Such processes do not occur in casual 'bdsm', and thus the potential for damage is much greater. The ethics of players in public venues such as discussion forums demonstrates their disregard for others and their inability to tolerate dissent.

If they are so unconcerned in public, it is not difficult to imagine how unconcerned they are for others in private where there are no witnesses to their abusive behaviour.

If they are in such need to stamp out any and all opposing views such that they rely on censorship to achieve a situation where their point of view is the only point of view heard, they are aware of how weak their position is.

It won't stand up to scrutiny, which is why they do not argue the ethics but rather resort to character assasination as their weapon of choice to convince others and silence anyone who would object.

This 'discussion' is a fine example.

In response to the OP:

~smile~

I must be one hell of a threat to warrant an entire thread to attack me.

At least now I know why the rating for "Love and Respect" dropped.

For those of you who wish to demonstrate your immaturity at the polls, I offer the links which CM failed to provide:

The "Love" trilogy ("1", "2", "3"), "The Little Things" and "Questing for a Beloved".

And now I'll leave you to your little festival celebrating your mutual immaturity. Once again you've made the forums safe from those who disagree with the lack of ethics practiced by casual players.

Safe, that is, from everyone but lil ol' me.

~smile~

...

No. This was CM seeing a lot of misinformation being thrown around, and wanting to either understand how there might be some grain of truth buried in there, or dispel some flat out (IMO) dangerous bullshit. Or throw the cold clean light of day on all of it so people can decide for themselves what reality is.

...

Doesn't a "debate" require an advocate for an opposing point of view?

It would appear you've been unable to recruit anyone with whom you can "debate".

If preaching to the choir was what you intended, congratulations on your 'accomplishment'.

~smile~

You are refusing to defend your position. You refused to start the discussion. You are criticizing me for using your writings to present you position on lieu of your participation in the thread. I was trying to mount both pro and con, because you abdicated that responsibility, and have yet to being anything of consequence to the discussion at hand.

It is quite difficult to have a debate when the opposing viwer (you) refuses to support, defend, expoundob, or otherwise explain his position. Jesus Nan, I've given you a graveyards worth of bones here and you're still bitching? Ye gods.

Do what you want with the thread for the rest of the evening... I'm off to enjoy a delicious dinner cooked by my lover, music, and several hours of mind blowing sex.

Against what? Character assasination?

For the benefit of whom, your Rent-a-Mob?



You were the one who felt the need for a dedicated thread without reference to my writings, a "discussion" about the topic of ethics. When did it become my responsibility to start it for you?



You were the one who said you wanted a "discussion" without reference to my writing. I told you I was interested. So look at your OP and tell me how that worked out.

Has anyone whose ethics oppose yours stepped forward to "debate" or "discuss" the issues you said you want to "discuss"? I see only those who advocate casual 'bdsm'. And each of them believes he or she derives some benefit from their advocacy: popularity.

I see no defense of the lack of ethics involved in casual 'bdsm'. Only personal attacks directed at me.

~shrug~

You obviously wanted to give everyone a chance to flame me and hoped I'd start the thread myself. Instead you had to take on the responsibility for setting this thread on fire and I've just sat back and watched you.

If this be a mature and responsible effort to discuss the issues without reference to my writing, you've obviously failed. You haven't even encouraged anyone else with similar views to speak out.

Once again we hear the casual advocates sing the praises of casual 'bdsm' for the sake of their popularity, if not their next victim.

Since this is what I told people to expect, you've only provided me with more credibility while discrediting yourself, considering the thread you initially said you wanted.

You've proven nothing but that you can and will shout down anyone whose ethics disagree with yours. Dissent is not permitted and should anyone be so bold as to voice them they can expect much the same as you've attempted to pull on me.



~smile~

And when you return you will still be left singing to the choir.

You have only demonstrated how touchy casual advocates are about a practice they cannot justify through ethics.

They are no better than a howling mob when faced with someone who challenges their unethical practices.

~smile~

Your disappointment is showing.

Rather obvious you and your friends were eagerly anticipating a flame-fest with me as the target.

Instead you and your friends get to parade around on your own, protesting that anyone should have values that differ from yours.

So much for 'diversity' in your perfect 'bdsm' world.

Your intolerance for beliefs and ethics which disagree with you is made manifest.

I notice your failure to 'encourage' anyone with ethics similar to mine to participate. They exist, of course. My essays and stories would not be as highly rated by so many if they didn't.

How can we account for your failure to encourage them to join in?

Couldn't be the character assasination, the eagerness to flame, the need to eviscerate those who disagree, now could it.

Couldn't be your animosity for those who do not share your fanatical views regarding the "One True Way": casual 'bdsm'.

Couldn't be how easily you target a single individual for your vitriol.

No, it must be something else. Some other reason why you haven't attracted any opposition to your 'debate'.

Whatever could that reason be ... hmmmm?

And here I thought "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love" was a cohesive expression of my opinions.

I must assume research is not required on this board before flaming.

By the way, I notice no one here has managed to recruit anyone with an opposing point of view to participate so as to actually have a "debate".

Wonder why so many of you find that so difficult. Surely such a 'mature' mob as is represented here can encourage discussion from various opposing points of view.

~smile~

~smile~

And deny them the opportunity to show one and all just how intolerant they are towards those who oppose the lack of ethics in casual 'bdsm'?

The fact they cannot encourage anyone with opposing views to participate in this 'debate' demonstrates more clearly than my words just how intolerant they are.

So why should I be the one who starts a thread where their intolerance will be just as obvious?

The number of "5" ratings my essays and stories have received amply demonstrate there are more than a few in agreement with my views. I do not see anyone stepping forward to be publicly eviscerated by the fanatics of casual 'bdsm' in this thread.

To date I'm the only one to go public with my views, and for this I'm called "coward". Why should anyone participate in a 'debate' whose sole purpose is character assasination?

~smile~

It is quite obvious from the weapons they use that the casual advocates are more than aware they have no ethical basis upon which to stand. To shut down discussion and discourage all dissenting points of view the casual advocates use character assasination as their weapon of choice. Thus we have a 'debate' where only one point of view is heard.

That's the casual community's idea of 'diversity': One True Way.

Anyone who disagrees with them is ridiculed.

Would that there were mature adults within the casual community with whom one could debate. Instead there are immature fanatics seeking to silence any and all opposing views by staging a sham 'debate' amongst themselves where only their viewpoint is worthy of praise.

~smile~

They discredit themselves by their inability to demonstrate an openness that encourages participation from opposing points of view.

"Love and Respect"
4.25 8 votes

"Love, Part I: Endings"
4.22 46 votes

"Love, Part 2: Introductions"
4.60 45 votes

"Love, Part 3: Winter Interlude"
4.25 32 votes

"Questing for a Beloved"
4.33 12 votes

"The Little Things"
4.40 15 votes

I seriously doubt I'd have obtained these ratings if my point of view was not shared by many others.

That I am the only one with the courage to voice my point of view in public and thus subject myself to the ridicule of casual advocates in no way demonstrates that I am the only one to challenge the lack of ethics of casual 'bdsm'.

"Love and Respect"
3.80 10 votes

"Love, Part I: Endings"
4.15 47 votes

"Love, Part 2: Introductions"
4.52 46 votes

"Love, Part 3: Winter Interlude"
4.15 33 votes

"Questing for a Beloved"
4.08 13 votes

"The Little Things"
4.19 16 votes

Considering how long it actually takes to read all of the above, how likely is it anyone actually read the material they just down-rated in the last 30 minutes?

~smile~

I see the fanatics of the casual community are not above using the rating system to express their own personal animosity towards a writer, regardless of what he writes or how well he writes.

"Love and Respect"
3.55 11 votes

"Love, Part I: Endings"
4.08 48 votes

"Love, Part 2: Introductions"
4.52 46 votes

"Love, Part 3: Winter Interlude"
4.15 33 votes

"Questing for a Beloved"
4.08 13 votes

"The Little Things"
4.19 16 votes

The casual community continues to demonstrate their idea of 'ethical' use of the ratings system.

~smile~

When public character assasination, ridicule, and vote-rigging are considered 'ethical' by a community, what do they consider 'ethical' when it comes to bdsm?

When they are willing to display their lack of ethics in public, what kind of 'ethics' do they practice in private, where there are no witnesses?

And how do they treat their victims when their victims object to being abused?

"Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

Character assasination.

Ridicule.

What else you got?

Control the medium, and you control the message.

The casual community has learned this lesson well.

By ensuring they are in positions of control: site owners, group owners, moderators, etc they are in a position to ensure only the message they want others to hear will be heard, and no other.

From this position they can make any claim, and as they have the authority to control what is heard, dissent is never heard.

And anyone who doesn't get with the program can be made an example of for others.

So now that we know what won't be heard, what do we hear?

We hear that everything is perfect in the casual community. Everything is a munch or a party. Everyone is safe, and to be doubly sure, there are dungeon monitors.

Safe and fun, that is what we hear about casual communities ... because that is what the casual communities who control the medium want us to hear.

We hear a lot about techniques, but no one talks about ethics.

---

From "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

Ironically, from an outsider's perspective, the more you persist in attacking him the more you strengthen his argument. I urge you all to step back and re-read your own posts.

His actions speak for themselves. But, so do yours.

In response to a post from chy_girl:

If you lack the ethics to call a spade "a spade" because your friends are responsible for the verbal abuse, what kind of ethics do you practice when it comes to bdsm and your friends are responsible for physical abuse?

Turning a blind eye to abuse because it would jeopardize your popularity has no basis in ethics.

In response to Eastern Guru:

A little too late for that.

I'll be submitting delete requests for all of my material, given the degree of vote-rigging by the casual community and the effect a low rating has on material being read.

I can always re-submit when they're not looking.

I'll cite this thread as my reason for deleting the material, not that it will make a difference.

Obviously the rating system exists for this purpose: vote-rigging by the mob.

I've submitted the delete requests for all of my material, stories, essays and poetry.

And once again the casual community silences opposition so as to portray itself as the "One True Way".

I agree, but given the number of un-substantive threads on this forum that just peter out without much attention, it's rather surprising to see so much vehemence directed against him.

It happens from time to time. People just start getting really mean. I'm still sad that osg got such harsh treatment a couple of months ago. I miss her.

Now back to CM's most recent post in this thread:

I am terribly sorry to hear you have deleted your writings. Actually I feel it to be a rather cowardly act - if you truly believe the seriousness of your warnings and advice to those submissives incapable of protecting themselves (or weeding out the idiots), then by deleting your writings how exactly did you solve your complaint about "mob rule" silencing the minority?

No one forced your to delete your writings - you chose to delete them. Which means you censored yourself.

With nearly 6000 posts under her belt, I am sure it is obvious CM knew exactly what the consequences would be for starting the thread the way she did, which is not the way she proposed the idea to me.

It should also be abundantly obvious why she wanted me to start the thread, despite the fact she was the one proposing the discussion and despite the obvious character assasination that others were prosecuting against me.

My own response to her suggestion that I start the discussion shows that I knew what to expect.

So here we are, with CM in full denial while continuing the character assasination by suggesting I am a coward.

She ignores the fact that a writer without the ratings to stay on the top list is but one of thousands in the general list, waiting for the one or two readers who randomly select a story rather than choosing a top-rated story from the top list.

Not that she wouldn't know this, but refusing to acknowledge the situation as it is demonstrates her intent.

As is obvious in her OP in Debating a Few Philosophies of BDSM - Love, Kink, Lust, Etc she placed no burden upon the casual community to defend its lack of ethics. The sole purpose of the 'discussion' was to attack me.

A mob of casual players willing to invent any factoid so as to gain say anything I said.

Meanwhile the less mature individuals were encouraged to down-rate anything I wrote on sight because, as CM puts it:

... I freely admit whenever someone tosses out a BDSM = Love / Love = BDSM (capital "L") blahblahblah argument I get irritated. Actually I get pissed off. ... This was CM seeing a lot of misinformation being thrown around, and wanting to either understand how there might be some grain of truth buried in there, or dispel some flat out (IMO) dangerous bullshit. Or throw the cold clean light of day on all of it so people can decide for themselves what reality is.

Obviously such a dangerous, threatening individual such as myself deserves to be down-rated as an act of 'conscience'.

So how sincere can we believe her to be when she says:

I am terribly sorry to hear you have deleted your writings.

As I said in Debating a Few Philosophies of BDSM - Love, Kink, Lust, Etc:

~smile~

And of course, now that I've announced I've submitted delete requests for all of my material, everyone needs to repair the damage they did to themselves in the first six pages.

So we get another four pages of semantics explaining how character assasination and other assorted verbal abuse isn't really "abuse".

Meanwhile, debts are paid off in the form of acceptance for support rendered.

What I find most intriguing is the desperation for popularity, that abusers should be chosen by newcomers to be 'friends' simply because the abusers represent the dominant clique in the forum and obviously wield the largest voting bloc when it comes to material published here.

And thus all demonstrate their investment in abusive behaviour and their need to ignore it.

Not a complete waste, CM, considering how easy it was to rip away the carefully-manicured public personae to reveal the monsters that lurk beneath the surface.

Much like a muslim appearing on a religious board, announcing his faith in Allah when everyone else is a christian.

That none of you can handle anyone whose ethics differ from yours is manifest.

That none of you can be civil with someone who does not share your belief is a trademark of the casual community and its advocates.

Thus it becomes the "One True Way".

By way of evidence I offer the following quotes from Eastern Guru, which followed my announcement of my intent to delete my writings:

...
I think you have made excellent points in support of the "casual" scene. And I am glad you did, because you made me see the safety issues from a different perspective than I would be aware of. The best thing about a forum like this is the opportunity to read perspectives different than my own.

I think the paucity of his experience with the casual scene quickly cast light on the breadth and depth of his perspective, but I don't think he's representing any "mainstream" here.

I think he's quite isolated, in fact, having embraced BDSM but not the BDSM community. If he's living as a master, and I guess I've taken him at his word there, he's engaged in more BDSM than many of the readers on this board.

(Isn't it that isolation, coupled with the fixation, that makes him feel like a predator?)

I responded to subish's first post before I read her second one. . . .

I'm just struck by the vehemence with which the group turned on him. Either he was deeply threatening. Or a huge target. Or both.

Since I'm the one using the word vehemence, I took a look back to see why.

It was based on my impression of a relatively short period of time (towards the beginning of this thread and peppered throughout a few others) in which a number of posts were written with a fair amount of contempt laced with strong emotions and some name-calling. Even though I could see how it was generated, I was surprised by the strength of the energy that was being focussed on him.

vehement - showing strong feeling, forceful, passionate, intense

I must be quite naive, then. A tender flower.

(Actually, I have very little experience of the internet beyond the range of a few well-worn paths. And flame wars have never been my favorite part of this virtual world. It's a consequence of the anonymity that has always bugged me.)

So yes, I consider CM a book burner, along with all those who contributed to her flame-fest, as well as those who sat by and did nothing and those who sought acceptance from those who engaged in verbal abuse.

As the only public advocate of a love-based bdsm, vote-rigging has ensured no one would read my material, and thus I was effectively censored by CM and her friends.

And so we end up with a forum where there is no advocate for a love-based bdsm.

Only those who advocate casual 'bdsm' are welcome here. No one who opposes it spoke up, nor will they without suffering a similar fate to mine.

The casual community's "vehemence" will continue to intimidate writers, whose works are just as vulnerable to vote-rigging as mine. It would be a rare mature, intelligent individual who could articulate his/her point of view who would step forward and subject themselves to the immature attacks of a mob.

And for that they will be called "coward", "troll", "predator" and many other delightful names as the casual community invents one factoid after another to fool the novices.

And the novices won't have a clue there is any other way of engaging in bdsm without the casual community ...

And the novices will never learn why casual 'bdsm' should be avoided, until they've been sufficiently abused to learn for themselves.

If there is a coward here, it is CM and her crew who cannot abide an opposing point of view to the point they must act as bullies in the playground picking on one kid they know they can beat up with impunity.

And those are the people whom Eastern Guru seeks to befriend.

There is no shame in acknowedging a hopeless situation and choosing another path which provides more of a chance to make a difference.

As a writer with some skill I am never without that hope.

To those of you who are novices and have yet to be abused by the casual community, keep in mind who you have to thank for keeping you from reading any point of view not sanctioned by the casual community: CM and her friends and all those like her who populate this forum and every 'bdsm' online forum.

There is another way ... Love.

From Love is unethical:

The Case for Love

Love strengthens self-respect, in the lover and the one loved.

Love respects consent and the lack of consent.

Love tolerates no deception.

Love is patient and thorough.

Love never places a beloved at risk.

Love delights in the sharing of discovery and exploration.

Love needs no previous experience.

Love heals.

Love has meaning, not just for one night, but night after night after ...

Love isn't lonely.

Love is much more than lust.

Love challenges us to be our best, because it demands of us that we care for another as much as we care for ourselves.

As we would not deny ourselves our best, so too do we not deny our best to those we love.

To be our best we must be willing to grow, to learn, to explore and discover, always respecting our selves and each other.

Love offers all of this to those who have the courage to believe in themselves, to respect themselves, to respect others.

Love offers itself to those who turn their backs on Fear.

Love offers itself to those who choose to be what they were born to be.

Human.

--

excerpt from "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

Love is not an easy path.

Love takes away the freedom to not care, to be disrespectful, to harm another, to be thoughtless, to be less than we are capable of being.

Love isn't satisfied with us being lazy.

Love demands the best from each of us, all the time.

Love demands we learn to do better, so we can be better lovers for those we love.

Love doesn't have room for egotism.

Love is a group dynamic.

Love is cooperative.

Love is the ultimate challenge.

Love requires we find the courage to be vulnerable, to reveal ourselves completely and to trust another with our hearts.

Love is its own reward.

---

excerpt from "The Little Things: Excerpts from the notebook of a romantic BDSM master"

Love is ...

Love is the ultimate confirmation.

In Love we do not live for ourselves alone.

We live for another as well.

We are needed, essential to the well-being of another.

Those who have never known this may scoff.

Those who have loved and been loved will never forget it

And no substitute will ever provide satisfaction.

Love is incomparable.

Only through Love can we learn to be all that we can be.

Only Love provides the necessary motivation to strive for perfection.

Beside Love everything else is mundane, trivial, inconsequential.

We only have one life with which to make a choice.

I choose Love.

I need to be all I can be.

I need to discover my full potential.

Without Love, it will never happen.

---

excerpt from Ibid

Promises to Live By

I will hope for the best from you.

I will have faith in you.

I will believe you.

I will trust you.

I will respect you.

I will discuss with you.

I will listen to you.

I will teach you.

I will learn from you.

I will cherish you.

I will care for you.

I will heal you.

I will need you.

I will be there for you.

I will stand up for you.

I will understand you.

I will love you ...

... Always ...

---

excerpt from Ibid

And good luck ... the more you hang around people like this, the more you're going to need it.

 

[MisterSir]

...

Four letters and a piece of punctuation that have never been more appropriate: tl;dr

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/aaaaaa1983/bdgfss/crybaby-1.jpg

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/aaaaaa1983/bdgfss/crybaby.png

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/aaaaaa1983/bdgfss/crybaby8.jpg

http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m366/aaaaaa1983/bdgfss/dkqoboro.jpg

Seems about right.

 

[Primalex]

Nobody cares about cute kittens these days

 

[Netzach]

Kitten slaughter in here. Yep.

 

[where]

From Weakness
<snip>

And good luck ... the more you hang around people like this, the more you're going to need it.

it looks to me like you aren't so much an advocate of bdsm and true love, but that you have rubbished people into bdsm who are NOT into true love. what did you expect when you go around telling people that their personal lives are crap?

 

[eastern sun]

it looks to me like you aren't so much an advocate of bdsm and true love, but that you have rubbished people into bdsm who are NOT into true love. what did you expect when you go around telling people that their personal lives are crap?

You know my favorite part of this whole story?

It all started in a thread called "Weakness."

It only seems right that all our weaknesses would be laid on the carpet, eh?

(I think it's important not to lose sight of everyone's strengths in the process.)