Debating a Few Philosophies of BDSM - Love, Kink, Lust, Etc

[00Syd]

Character assasination.

Ridicule.

What else you got?

You just further proved my point.

 

[BLoved]

You just further proved my point.

Actually, this entire 'debate' proves the points I make in "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

 

[BLoved]

Control the medium, and you control the message.

The casual community has learned this lesson well.

By ensuring they are in positions of control: site owners, group owners, moderators, etc they are in a position to ensure only the message they want others to hear will be heard, and no other.

From this position they can make any claim, and as they have the authority to control what is heard, dissent is never heard.

And anyone who doesn't get with the program can be made an example of for others.

So now that we know what won't be heard, what do we hear?

We hear that everything is perfect in the casual community. Everything is a munch or a party. Everyone is safe, and to be doubly sure, there are dungeon monitors.

Safe and fun, that is what we hear about casual communities ... because that is what the casual communities who control the medium want us to hear.

We hear a lot about techniques, but no one talks about ethics.

---

From "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

 

[00Syd]

Actually, this entire 'debate' proves the points I make in "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

I don't see that as being the case at all, but would love if you explained what parts of this thread you see as proving the points you make in your writing.

 

[BLoved]

I don't see that as being the case at all, but would love if you explained what parts of this thread you see as proving the points you make in your writing.

Those more mature than you do not need me to point out the evidence.

Hopefully those less mature will give some thought to the consequences of placing themselves at the 'mercy' of the casual community.

 

[chy_girl]

What a revealing way in which to describe those with opposing views.

Is that your idea of 'encouragement'?

Oh, goodness no! Enough people have tried to cajoled you into joining the discussion. That was my subtle way of say shit or get off the pot.

And you didn't answer my question. Are you, or are you not implying that since I've not bowed down to your all-mighty unspoken opinion that I lack ethics in my submission and only engage in casual BDSM?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

 

[BLoved]

cajoled

Is that your word for character assasination, ridicule, vote-rigging?

 

[chy_girl]

Is that your word for character assasination, ridicule, vote-rigging?

No. That's my word for multiple invitations to join a discussion on the topic you felt necessary to vomit all over the Cafe.

And you still haven't answered the question:

Are you, or are you not implying that since I've not bowed down to your all-mighty unspoken opinion that I lack ethics in my submission and only engage in casual BDSM?

 

[rida]

One of the many words I'm not sure is being used correctly in this debacle.

Then again, I really don't see what is unethical about getting tied up and beaten by a friend with expectations of mutual satisfaction rather than happily every after. Guess I'll keep practicing until I figure it out!

Yep. "Ethic" seems to be a word often used but that very few bother to define.

As for your statement on "casual BDSM": you have it all wrong! (tongue in cheeck)

~smile~

I have a beloved. She lives with me. We are both quite happy and neither of us is looking.

I'm happy for you.

Any reply for my this post?

The only time he engages someone is when it will lead to a superficial off shoot of the main discussion, or if it will allow him to further explain how much of an embattled minority he is. He never responds to anyone who has a genuine question, or brings up any concrete issues for discussion. He only responds to what he perceives as personal affronts, so that he can talk about how he is being publicly "eviscerated" (talk about kinks, right?), or people who try to call him out on his lack of response to the genuine discussion (but never to the genuine discussion itself).

Case in point indeed.

 

[missy_me]

.....

 

[CeriseNin]

Character assasination.

Ridicule.

What else you got?

You assassinate your own alleged character every time you post in this thread. If I had known you refuse to engage in a discussion, I wouldn't have bothered to read your articles. I know better now.

Get off the cross, man, we need the wood.

 

[Netzach]

Control the medium, and you control the message.

The casual community has learned this lesson well.

By ensuring they are in positions of control: site owners, group owners, moderators, etc they are in a position to ensure only the message they want others to hear will be heard, and no other.

From this position they can make any claim, and as they have the authority to control what is heard, dissent is never heard.

And anyone who doesn't get with the program can be made an example of for others.

So now that we know what won't be heard, what do we hear?

We hear that everything is perfect in the casual community. Everything is a munch or a party. Everyone is safe, and to be doubly sure, there are dungeon monitors.

Safe and fun, that is what we hear about casual communities ... because that is what the casual communities who control the medium want us to hear.

We hear a lot about techniques, but no one talks about ethics.

---

From "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

This is proof positive that you're talking out your ass.

*everyone* talks about ethics and not just techniques. Everyone talks about emotional safety.

You just want to act like you personally invented the wheel.

 

[chy_girl]

This is proof positive that you're talking out your ass.

*everyone* talks about ethics and not just techniques. Everyone talks about emotional safety.

You just want to act like you personally invented the wheel.

It's that we aren't all bowing down to his ideas on ethics and his views of emotional safety...

And I wouldn't say it's so much about reinventing the wheel....

Too bad he's having such an issue keeping the curtain closed though.

*wonders off singing Somewhere Over the Rainbow*

PS
BLoved, you still haven't answered my question...

 

[eastern sun]

Ironically, from an outsider's perspective, the more you persist in attacking him the more you strengthen his argument. I urge you all to step back and re-read your own posts.

His actions speak for themselves. But, so do yours.

 

[BLoved]

No. That's my word for multiple invitations to join a discussion on the topic you felt necessary to vomit all over the Cafe.

Are you, or are you not implying that since I've not bowed down to your all-mighty unspoken opinion that I lack ethics in my submission and only engage in casual BDSM?

If you lack the ethics to call a spade "a spade" because your friends are responsible for the verbal abuse, what kind of ethics do you practice when it comes to bdsm and your friends are responsible for physical abuse?

Turning a blind eye to abuse because it would jeopardize your popularity has no basis in ethics.

 

[BLoved]

Ironically, from an outsider's perspective, the more you persist in attacking him the more you strengthen his argument. I urge you all to step back and re-read your own posts.

His actions speak for themselves. But, so do yours.

A little too late for that.

I'll be submitting delete requests for all of my material, given the degree of vote-rigging by the casual community and the effect a low rating has on material being read.

I can always re-submit when they're not looking.

I'll cite this thread as my reason for deleting the material, not that it will make a difference.

Obviously the rating system exists for this purpose: vote-rigging by the mob.

 

[BLoved]

I've submitted the delete requests for all of my material, stories, essays and poetry.

Control the medium, and you control the message.

The casual community has learned this lesson well.

By ensuring they are in positions of control: site owners, group owners, moderators, etc they are in a position to ensure only the message they want others to hear will be heard, and no other.

From this position they can make any claim, and as they have the authority to control what is heard, dissent is never heard.

And anyone who doesn't get with the program can be made an example of for others.

So now that we know what won't be heard, what do we hear?

We hear that everything is perfect in the casual community. Everything is a munch or a party. Everyone is safe, and to be doubly sure, there are dungeon monitors.

Safe and fun, that is what we hear about casual communities ... because that is what the casual communities who control the medium want us to hear.

We hear a lot about techniques, but no one talks about ethics.

---

From "Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

"Love and Respect"
4.25 8 votes

"Love, Part I: Endings"
4.22 46 votes

"Love, Part 2: Introductions"
4.60 45 votes

"Love, Part 3: Winter Interlude"
4.25 32 votes

"Questing for a Beloved"
4.33 12 votes

"The Little Things"
4.40 15 votes

I seriously doubt I'd have obtained these ratings if my point of view was not shared by many others.

That I am the only one with the courage to voice my point of view in public and thus subject myself to the ridicule of casual advocates in no way demonstrates that I am the only one to challenge the lack of ethics of casual 'bdsm'.

"Love and Respect"
3.80 10 votes

"Love, Part I: Endings"
4.15 47 votes

"Love, Part 2: Introductions"
4.52 46 votes

"Love, Part 3: Winter Interlude"
4.15 33 votes

"Questing for a Beloved"
4.08 13 votes

"The Little Things"
4.19 16 votes

Considering how long it actually takes to read all of the above, how likely is it anyone actually read the material they just down-rated in the last 30 minutes?

~smile~

I see the fanatics of the casual community are not above using the rating system to express their own personal animosity towards a writer, regardless of what he writes or how well he writes.

"Love and Respect"
3.55 11 votes

"Love, Part I: Endings"
4.08 48 votes

"Love, Part 2: Introductions"
4.52 46 votes

"Love, Part 3: Winter Interlude"
4.15 33 votes

"Questing for a Beloved"
4.08 13 votes

"The Little Things"
4.19 16 votes

The casual community continues to demonstrate their idea of 'ethical' use of the ratings system.

~smile~

When public character assasination, ridicule, and vote-rigging are considered 'ethical' by a community, what do they consider 'ethical' when it comes to bdsm?

When they are willing to display their lack of ethics in public, what kind of 'ethics' do they practice in private, where there are no witnesses?

And how do they treat their victims when their victims object to being abused?

"Casual 'BDSM' and Emotional Abuse: The Case for Love"

If you lack the ethics to call a spade "a spade" because your friends are responsible for the verbal abuse, what kind of ethics do you practice when it comes to bdsm and your friends are responsible for physical abuse?

Turning a blind eye to abuse because it would jeopardize your popularity has no basis in ethics.

And once again the casual community silences opposition so as to portray itself as the "One True Way".

 

[MisterSir]

And once again the casual community silences opposition so as to portray itself as the "One True Way".

I fucking wish, if they'd done their job properly and silenced you, I wouldn't have been exposed to any of your mindless witterings and I'd be much happier for it.

 

[chy_girl]

If you lack the ethics to call a spade "a spade" because your friends are responsible for the verbal abuse, what kind of ethics do you practice when it comes to bdsm and your friends are responsible for physical abuse?

Turning a blind eye to abuse because it would jeopardize your popularity has no basis in ethics.

I have no problem calling a spade a spade. Nor do I have a problem acknowledging that there is an interpersonal equivalent to Newton's third law.

You want people to here to admit they went over the top, you're going to have to own your part in it too. And btw, I'm not friends with everyone here.

As for determining the ethics one presents in BDSM being based on this conversation... Perhaps you should reexamine some of your own behaviors before you go making such blanket assumptions.

 

[Keroin]

Character assasination.

Ridicule.

What else you got?

Full house, aces over tens!

 

[intothewoods]

Ironically, from an outsider's perspective, the more you persist in attacking him the more you strengthen his argument. I urge you all to step back and re-read your own posts.

His actions speak for themselves. But, so do yours.

It seems impossible to have a substantive debate here, because he is saying, play parties are x, and everyone else here is saying play parties are y. I don't know what else to say.

I'm happy to discuss the issue of predators in the kink world, but the notion that we are all in cahoots is difficult to rebut. He says we are - we say we aren't. We're at a standstill.

I think you've made a valiant effort. I am also happy to engage in a substantive discussion, but I don't know what else to say at this point.

 

[Primalex]

I've submitted the delete requests for all of my material, stories, essays and poetry.

And once again the casual community silences opposition so as to portray itself as the "One True Way".

So 3 people were bored enough to vote.

Three.

We are really an incredible mighty mob!

~smiles~

Today Literotica, tomorrow the White House!

 

[sb2009]

all that ruckus over three votes? really? A mob of three?

 

[Netzach]

It seems impossible to have a substantive debate here, because he is saying, play parties are x, and everyone else here is saying play parties are y. I don't know what else to say.

I'm happy to discuss the issue of predators in the kink world, but the notion that we are all in cahoots is difficult to rebut. He says we are - we say we aren't. We're at a standstill.

I think you've made a valiant effort. I am also happy to engage in a substantive discussion, but I don't know what else to say at this point.

I'm not entirely sure how one is supposed to have a substantive debate with someone who came in and decided that anyone who doesn't agree with them is immature and worthy of sighing tolerance because they're so brilliant and enlightened.

I'm not entirely sure how someone is supposed to debate someone with fixed ideas about something they clearly have no aggregate experience with based on your experience with it - when they have expressed total unwillingness to consider the validity of anyone's thoughts with more experience.

I'm not entirely sure how someone is supposed to have a rational discussion with someone who has assigned them a place in a bogeyman subculture.

There are more of us here - but shift context one tiny bit and we're not the majority in ANY stretch of the imagination and BLoved is, with his full on persecution complex as response. A lot of people like him. They've decided what sex is for and everything that doesn't look like it is bad. I don't have to fabricate this, if I don't accept it as reality my rights and life and safety are in question.

I'm not here to make that point of view comfortable and I hope other people aren't either. I don't care if you think that I'm a psychotic hedonist who needs help, but if you think I'm going to pat your head and say "wow that's great" and not defend myself you're insane. The only reason we're able to discuss BDSM at all is because of people insisting on their right to be unacceptable to majority notions of love and sex.

At least WriterDom has the nads to have some convictions and be a sport about the fact that a lot of people don't agree. No one guarantees that you get a lot of people agreeing with you all the time, and most people are able to cope with that reality.

 

[eastern sun]

It seems impossible to have a substantive debate here, because he is saying, play parties are x, and everyone else here is saying play parties are y. I don't know what else to say.

I'm happy to discuss the issue of predators in the kink world, but the notion that we are all in cahoots is difficult to rebut. He says we are - we say we aren't. We're at a standstill.

I think you've made a valiant effort. I am also happy to engage in a substantive discussion, but I don't know what else to say at this point.

I agree, but given the number of un-substantive threads on this forum that just peter out without much attention, it's rather surprising to see so much vehemence directed against him.

It happens from time to time. People just start getting really mean. I'm still sad that osg got such harsh treatment a couple of months ago. I miss her.