When You're Not Feeling It

[Homburg]

you're not happy or fulfilled. they can't decide what or who they want. ergo there's no relationship here.

People that do not have completely formed opinions on exactly what they want can't have relationships?

 

[incubus'_sub]

that's not exactly what i meant. more that both sides in a relationship have needs.

bunny's needs are coming nowhere close to being met, nor is her financial, emotional or physical welfare even being considered.

the other side is pretty much ignoring the needs that they stated(advertised?) they had and expecting her to be an unpaid servant without ANY benefit whatsoever.

i can't see any master/pet/slave thing happening here, just a lazy couple who have found a way to get their shit done at no cost to themselves in any fashion.

maybe they are still sorting out what they want but i believe they've got it. they're still advertising because they know that no reasonable person will put up with it for long.

people have fantasies yes and they think they know what they want and enter a relationship. fantasies are refined and defined and if it all comes together a relationship grows and prospers.

that's not happening here.

 

[ataxia.girl]

they're still advertising because they know that no reasonable person will put up with it for long.

i highly doubt this is why they are still advertising. Who knows why they are but i don't think they are self aware enough of the situation for this to be the case. They may be lazy and a bit clueless but i don't believe they are intentionally taking advantage of Bunny knowing eventually she will leave and they'll need a new laundress.

The only real questions are can you eroticize the neglect enough to stay? Or are enough of your needs not being met that it is time to go?

 

[eastern sun]

The only real questions are can you eroticize the neglect enough to stay? Or are enough of your needs not being met that it is time to go?

Excellent questions.

But even if you're able to eroticize the neglect for long enough to establish the relationship, there will inevitably come a time when the erotic aspects evaporate. And it just feels like neglect.

I think choosing to be a slave requires pretty high tolerance levels for other people being themselves regardless of your needs and desires. And, by extension, a commitment to meeting your own needs on your own - both physically and emotionally. Even while you're actively working to satisfy their needs and desires.

Having to meet your own needs doesn't necessarily imply a bad relationship.

But knowing your own tolerance levels is crucial.

Bunny, it seems to me you are in the process of discovering who you are. That's a good thing.

 

[intothewoods]

People that do not have completely formed opinions on exactly what they want can't have relationships?

I think it's pretty darn necessary to having a long term relationship that lasts for life. It's possible you could be fuzzy on the details and hook up with someone else who is similarly fuzzy, and then by luck have it work out, but more often than not you'll need to have a solid idea of what you want. Of course, because a relationship isn't lifelong doesn't mean you don't get something out of it. What is it that Dan Savage says? Every relationship is going to end until one doesn't. Something like that. You live and learn, and really, you have to learn what works and what doesn't through your relationships.

Excellent questions.

But even if you're able to eroticize the neglect for long enough to establish the relationship, there will inevitably come a time when the erotic aspects evaporate. And it just feels like neglect.

I think choosing to be a slave requires pretty high tolerance levels for other people being themselves regardless of your needs and desires. And, by extension, a commitment to meeting your own needs on your own - both physically and emotionally. Even while you're actively working to satisfy their needs and desires.

Having to meet your own needs doesn't necessarily imply a bad relationship.

But knowing your own tolerance levels is crucial.

Bunny, it seems to me you are in the process of discovering who you are. That's a good thing.

Great post, es. I have to say, even though I have always known intellectually that I am responsible for my own happiness, it's been tough to really get this. Working on "your couple" as my former therapist used to say and myself is kind of an interesting balance.

 

[CutieMouse]

i highly doubt this is why they are still advertising. Who knows why they are but i don't think they are self aware enough of the situation for this to be the case. They may be lazy and a bit clueless but i don't believe they are intentionally taking advantage of Bunny knowing eventually she will leave and they'll need a new laundress.

This.

The only real questions are can you eroticize the neglect enough to stay? Or are enough of your needs not being met that it is time to go?

From watching the whole thread unfold (recognizing there are bits and pieces that are more complicated/involved/elaborate than what's in the thread)... I see young-ish people trying to write their own relationship and still be young-ish, bill paying, life living people.

Communication/needs/balance and respect are hard enough to get in a 1+1= couple relationship, much less a 1+1+1 = Master Mistress Slave sort of thing.

The bottom line is one leaves when the misery outweighs the joy. And everyone has a different misery/joy quotient.

Excellent questions.

But even if you're able to eroticize the neglect for long enough to establish the relationship, there will inevitably come a time when the erotic aspects evaporate. And it just feels like neglect.

Yep.

I think choosing to be a slave requires pretty high tolerance levels for other people being themselves regardless of your needs and desires. And, by extension, a commitment to meeting your own needs on your own - both physically and emotionally. Even while you're actively working to satisfy their needs and desires.

Having to meet your own needs doesn't necessarily imply a bad relationship.

But knowing your own tolerance levels is crucial.

Bunny, it seems to me you are in the process of discovering who you are. That's a good thing.

Very practical advice ES... very.

 

[ataxia.girl]

But even if you're able to eroticize the neglect for long enough to establish the relationship, there will inevitably come a time when the erotic aspects evaporate. And it just feels like neglect.

<snip>

Having to meet your own needs doesn't necessarily imply a bad relationship.

But knowing your own tolerance levels is crucial.

i have been able to eroticize it enough to put up with a fair amount of perceived neglect but there are offsetting factors. i may not get the kind of attention i want\need but i do get attention and i know i am a priority, enough of a priority that he drops everything else when i am in town, including any women he might be dating at the time.

This is also not my only relationship and that is a big factor. i'm not looking to Daddy to meet ALL of my wants\needs. In fact, he has taught me its okay, good in fact, for me to meet my own wants\needs. i was unable to do this before. i didn't think i deserved for them to be met unless someone else decided i was by meeting them.

my personal opinion, and its just my opinion, is that you should not give yourself to this couple for ownership and that you should be looking for a more suitable primary relationship\owner, one where you will be a priority. i don't think it is possible for this couple to meet your needs, even if they wanted to.

Are you as important to either of them as they are to you? Important enough for anything to fundamentally change?

 

[JMohegan]

The bottom line is one leaves when the misery outweighs the joy. And everyone has a different misery/joy quotient.

True. But this is where I find the concept of masochism to be most confusing.

When an otherwise intelligent and reasonably self-sufficient adult puts up with multiple years of a cycle that looks like: "Yay, he's fantastic, I love our relationship!..... I hate this; he treats me like shit...... Yay, he's making me so happy, I'd jump off a cliff for this guy!...... Fuck, I'm in agony, he just betrayed me in the worst possible way...... Yay, he and his new wife want me!...... God, this sucks, they treat me like shit....." - it seems to me that one possibility is that the person on the emotional roller coaster actually enjoys the ride.

 

[ataxia.girl]

True. But this is where I find the concept of masochism to be most confusing.

When an otherwise intelligent and reasonably self-sufficient adult puts up with multiple years of a cycle that looks like: "Yay, he's fantastic, I love our relationship!..... I hate this; he treats me like shit...... Yay, he's making me so happy, I'd jump off a cliff for this guy!...... Fuck, I'm in agony, he just betrayed me in the worst possible way...... Yay, he and his new wife want me!...... God, this sucks, they treat me like shit....." - it seems to me that one possibility is that the person on the emotional roller coaster actually enjoys the ride.

It's the i hate you don't leave me syndrome and i don't think we necessarily "enjoy" it. Some of us have a really hard time seeing gray. Since human beings are flawed our inability to see gray necessitates that sometimes the person is white and sometimes they are black. No one stays in either camp permanently. Its just not possible. Sometimes they will do\not do things that make us feel bad and sometimes they will do\not do things that make us feel good.

Even knowing you are this way doesn't necessarily make it go away. i have to be on guard and battle against this kind of thinking all the time and i am unsuccessful fairly often.

 

[subish2009]

I think it's pretty darn necessary to having a long term relationship that lasts for life. It's possible you could be fuzzy on the details and hook up with someone else who is similarly fuzzy, and then by luck have it work out, but more often than not you'll need to have a solid idea of what you want. <snip>

Yes, especially when you're young...Bunny, do I remember correctly that you're in your 20s? Or do I have that wrong? I don't know....for almost every woman I know, her 20s was a major time of upheaval and figuring one's self out, what one needs from a partner, life goals, etc. But ITW makes a point that is sometimes obvious when you're outside the situation, sometimes not so obvious when you're in the middle of it: IF this relationship is nearing an end, you will have doubtless gained some great experiences from it that will, hopefully, help you make a better match in your next relationship.

Bunny, it seems to me you are in the process of discovering who you are. That's a good thing.

This. Yes. I second this.

True. But this is where I find the concept of masochism to be most confusing.

When an otherwise intelligent and reasonably self-sufficient adult puts up with multiple years of a cycle that looks like: "Yay, he's fantastic, I love our relationship!..... I hate this; he treats me like shit...... Yay, he's making me so happy, I'd jump off a cliff for this guy!...... Fuck, I'm in agony, he just betrayed me in the worst possible way...... Yay, he and his new wife want me!...... God, this sucks, they treat me like shit....." - it seems to me that one possibility is that the person on the emotional roller coaster actually enjoys the ride.

Yeah, that's a fair point, and a good one. Masochism is confusing...but, Bunny, are you even getting those ups anymore? It's so hard to know what's really going on when we only have the glimpses you give us, and most people vent more about the bad stuff than they publicly rejoice about the good stuff, but it does sound like the bad is outweighing the good for you. Is that fair to say?

Hugs, by the way. I hope things are feeling a little better lately.

 

[Homburg]

I think it's pretty darn necessary to having a long term relationship that lasts for life. It's possible you could be fuzzy on the details and hook up with someone else who is similarly fuzzy, and then by luck have it work out, but more often than not you'll need to have a solid idea of what you want. Of course, because a relationship isn't lifelong doesn't mean you don't get something out of it. What is it that Dan Savage says? Every relationship is going to end until one doesn't. Something like that. You live and learn, and really, you have to learn what works and what doesn't through your relationships.

I think that most people, vanilla or kinky, are either incapable, or simply unwilling, to do the introspection, searching (self and other), and experimentation necessary to really know what they want.

 

[CutieMouse]

True. But this is where I find the concept of masochism to be most confusing.

When an otherwise intelligent and reasonably self-sufficient adult puts up with multiple years of a cycle that looks like: "Yay, he's fantastic, I love our relationship!..... I hate this; he treats me like shit...... Yay, he's making me so happy, I'd jump off a cliff for this guy!...... Fuck, I'm in agony, he just betrayed me in the worst possible way...... Yay, he and his new wife want me!...... God, this sucks, they treat me like shit....." - it seems to me that one possibility is that the person on the emotional roller coaster actually enjoys the ride.

It is possible to be so comfortable with/used to the roller coaster [drama], that the flatland ahead [no drama] can be more terrifying than the steepest dip on the track.

 

[BiBunny]

Lots of good questions to answer. They're food for thought, and I will think on them, but I'm not going there here. Too easy for the peanut gallery to sit back and think they've got all the answers and label me a crazy drama queen who gets what's coming to her.

I believe I'll let this one die a natural death. Thank you to everyone for all your thoughtful responses. I really do appreciate it, probably more than you know.