When You're Not Feeling It

[perfect_curls]

I need attention to be happy. If that's not submissive, well, then, I just hate the hell out of it, but that's just how it is. I do not have the ability to sublimate this need in order to be the perfect little slave. Sorry. Too bad.

I feel stifled watching all of us try to box me into this little role that none of us are comfortable with. I feel like M/s is a dynamic based on deprivation and the word "no," and I'm just not cool with that. I don't feel all submissive and happy and owned when I'm told "no" over something perfectly reasonable. I had enough of that bullshit when I was growing up.

You're a profoundly intelligent woman, and this post was so poignant. I nearly cried when I read this bit. You really deserve Owners that want you to be happy and I very strongly hope that you won't settle for unhappiness. I don't think that needing attention to be happy is a "not submissive" thing, honestly. I think it's healthy and reasonable.

Please, please, please don't settle. If the relationship is not right, then leave.

 

[Homburg]

He doesn't mind me being mad at him though. As long as i'm his he doesn't care too much how i am.

I think, by default, you are doing what he wants you to do. It may be what he wants on the macro level, while the micro level is something he doesn't sweat all that much.

--

In this case it seems like these are not super-sensitive-to-nuance and organized people - I know that any profile I have out there is likely to be at least 100 years old. You are probably right, that is IS laziness, but it's also worth some scrutiny and consideration because it does send kind of a crap message, to update pics and not status in this regard. It's a fine line between being too sensitive and being in denial about things that are bothersome.

I would sweat it if it were discussed and not changed, but if the message of discomfort hasn't been offered, I would stick with laziness.

 

[Netzach]

I would sweat it if it were discussed and not changed, but if the message of discomfort hasn't been offered, I would stick with laziness.

Yep, probably. That's a good assessment.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I think, by default, you are doing what he wants you to do. It may be what he wants on the macro level, while the micro level is something he doesn't sweat all that much.

i don't think its so much that i do what he wants as much as i just am what he wants. i don't really have to try all that hard to be me. All i really have to do is stop trying to be something else (which was really hard for a good while).

i consider myself extremely fortunate to have been found by someone who has this wisdom and the patience to get me to a place of understanding it.

Sometimes you just have to let go, be yourself, and let the Dominance come out and reveal itself as well as your own submissiveness if it ends up being there. He usually finds mine in there somewhere.

 

[BiBunny]

I see no disconnect in this. I will happily keep someone for exactly as long as they do what I want. As I will continue to want what I want,t hat may well be forever and ever, but the minute you cease doing what I want, your worth begins to fall off.

And, honestly, it is a form of control. As Netz mentioned elsewhere, fear of dismissal is a solid thing.

I have a problem with conditional anything, and I think that's my issue with M/s. Either you want me or you don't. In my poor, crazy little mind, there's no in between.

Don't conflate laziness with disdain.

Laziness, sure. It's mildly obnoxious, too. I just don't want to bring it up simply because it looks fucking petty, even though it seems to me that if you can go in and update your pics and change your ages IN THE TEXT OF THE DAMN PROFILE, you can also say, "Oh, I reckon while we're in here changing other shit around, we should probably take this part in the very next paragraph about looking for a slave out."

Yeah, leave the part about looking for other play partners. Leave the part about being swingers looking for other swingers. That's cool, I don't care. Just at least pretend you're not trying to replace me.

As tot he rest of it, you've done what appears to be quality soul-searching. Maybe some quality communicating would be a good follow-up, no?

You'd think. Haven't really figured out how to go about it yet.

And we're gonna have to disagree about M/s being based on "no". I see the opposite. In my world, it's based on the largely unconditional "yes" that the s says to the M. This is probably just a half-full vs half-empty thing though.

But if you can get the unconditional "yes" without having to throw around the almighty "no," then why bother?

In this case it seems like these are not super-sensitive-to-nuance and organized people - I know that any profile I have out there is likely to be at least 100 years old. You are probably right, that is IS laziness, but it's also worth some scrutiny and consideration because it does send kind of a crap message, to update pics and not status in this regard. It's a fine line between being too sensitive and being in denial about things that are bothersome.

I'm sure it's laziness, and I really do feel like an ass most of the time for even letting it bother me. If that were the only problem, I doubt I'd even think about it. But as it is, it's just another of those things that eats at my self-worth.

 

[Netzach]

I'm sure it's laziness, and I really do feel like an ass most of the time for even letting it bother me. If that were the only problem, I doubt I'd even think about it. But as it is, it's just another of those things that eats at my self-worth.

Just realize that you know, surely you know, that they have no clue. Now you can be angry that they're that clueless, but you can also accept that you're dealing with people who are not as *other minded* as you are. I mean, hell, you're kind of service oriented, right?

Don't feel like an ass for being bothered. You're entitled to be bothered. It is what it is.

The tragedy of service oriented people and D types is the strain that being wired differently can put on things as much as it is complimentary.

 

[Netzach]

But if you can get the unconditional "yes" without having to throw around the almighty "no," then why bother?

A valid question. I think "what do you get out of telling me no?" is a valid question when you're in communications mode.

Do all three people in the room know what the other two people believe the word "slavery" means? I realize that's not the label you groove to now, but I think backing up and looking at that might be some useful forensics to go forward on the same page.

 

[Homburg]

i don't think its so much that i do what he wants as much as i just am what he wants. i don't really have to try all that hard to be me. All i really have to do is stop trying to be something else (which was really hard for a good while).

This is what I was meaning in large part, but I understand the worth of making the distinction. It is less a manner of action and more a matter of being. There is quite a fine line between them, but, for you, that line is highly important.

--

I have a problem with conditional anything, and I think that's my issue with M/s. Either you want me or you don't. In my poor, crazy little mind, there's no in between.

What if he gets into a car accident, and suffers brain damage that alters his personality? Extreme case, but if a totally different person takes up residence in that skull, will your feelings remain unchanged?

And there is also the idea that I may want you, but if you don't want this, you are free to seek your happy elsewhere.

I think you are looking for reasons to be bothered here so as to better avoid your fear of success.

Laziness, sure. It's mildly obnoxious, too. I just don't want to bring it up simply because it looks fucking petty, even though it seems to me that if you can go in and update your pics and change your ages IN THE TEXT OF THE DAMN PROFILE, you can also say, "Oh, I reckon while we're in here changing other shit around, we should probably take this part in the very next paragraph about looking for a slave out."

Yeah, leave the part about looking for other play partners. Leave the part about being swingers looking for other swingers. That's cool, I don't care. Just at least pretend you're not trying to replace me.

Ask em. They are not mind readers.

You'd think. Haven't really figured out how to go about it yet.

Well, I would try "words". I hear they're handy for communication.

And stop rolling your eyes at me. My four year old does the same shit when I tell him that.

But if you can get the unconditional "yes" without having to throw around the almighty "no," then why bother?

Uh, I don't get the question. Please rephrase.

I'm sure it's laziness, and I really do feel like an ass most of the time for even letting it bother me. If that were the only problem, I doubt I'd even think about it. But as it is, it's just another of those things that eats at my self-worth.

Pfft, if it bothers you, it bothers you. Don't beat yourself up for having *gasp* insecurities. Work to do what is needed to handle those insecurities before they eat you up inside and drive you to forced failure.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Laziness, sure. It's mildly obnoxious, too. I just don't want to bring it up simply because it looks fucking petty, even though it seems to me that if you can go in and update your pics and change your ages IN THE TEXT OF THE DAMN PROFILE, you can also say, "Oh, I reckon while we're in here changing other shit around, we should probably take this part in the very next paragraph about looking for a slave out."

Yeah, leave the part about looking for other play partners. Leave the part about being swingers looking for other swingers. That's cool, I don't care. Just at least pretend you're not trying to replace me.

You know i'd throw a big ass tantrum over this but that isn't really my point in responding.

This in particular i think illustrates how very fundamental differences in D types necessitates different reactions from s types in order for said s types to stay in the relationship.

my Daddy has been known not to follow through on things he has said he would do. He forgets. He changes his mind but says nothing about it so i'm just left thinking he forgot or i'm not even worth it for him to explain to me why he isn't doing what he instructed me to prepare for only hours earlier (lets not even get into going to 2 stores to get the stuff to do this "preparation" or how uncomfortable it was). i don't think Daddy even knows i even did all this prep work last time. He probably forgot he told me too LOL. i used to get hot as hell over this stuff. At first i just swallowed it which never ever works. It festers and festers but eventually it is going to come out and its going to get pus everywhere.

my Daddy knows i like OTK spankings and baths and having my hair brushed. These are very simple things and he knows i love them because i have told him over and over and over. i don't nag him about it constantly or anything. Hell we will go 2 or 3 visits where i never even mention it mostly because i've largely given up hope that those things are going to happen unless he just happens to be in the mood one day. i'm lucky if i get a pretty weak attempt at one of them every other visit. i'm sure he would say i make it difficult for him to give me those things without it feeling contrived and he's likely right. In his defense i know he often brushes my hair when i'm in a drunken rage and i just don't remember in the morning but i digress.

i know my Daddy well enough to know he's not waiting for good behavior to reward me. i know because i've already tried it numerous times. my good behavior is no more likely to get me those things than my bad behavior, well at least with bad behavior i can sometimes get a spanking.

my point is my Daddy is still very Dominant. He still loves me very much and tells me so freely and often. He is very affectionate and very supportive. He's just kind of a clod when it comes to actually taking care of a little girl properly and bringing her up right. If i really was little i'd be dirty, my hair would always be tangled and my behavior would be pretty out of control but he and i would get along like 2 peas in a pod with the occasional tantrum by me anytime i saw a nice clean little girl and compared myself to her.

i don't think a sub\slave who is perfectly submissive would survive with my Daddy. She might try for a good while but with Daddy the squeaky wheel really does get the grease.

When i read stuff from Doms like Homburg or Prof Joe over on fetlife i sometimes get all bent out of shape over the whole obey or leave thing but then i read about how their sub\slaves are treated. They actually remember birthdays and do thoughtful things. They can be mean sure but overall i think they treat their property very well.

That's just not how it is with me and Daddy because he does forget and he doesn't know how to do the little thoughtful stuff a lot of the time. He sends me supportive and often poignant texts occasionally but a lot of the fluffier little girl stuff just either doesn't happen or takes so long to happen that by the time it does i'm really unreceptive to it. If i told you six months ago i really really wanted to be given a bath and you finally decide to give me one six months later i'm probably still going to be resentful over it because it's just such a freaking easy, simple thing to just get up off the bed when you hear the water running in the bathroom and come help me. When i'm brushing my hair and you're watching TV its really not that hard to just take the brush and do it for me, especially since you were the one that planted the desire\trigger for that in the first place.

When i go on about this stuff a lot of little magical thinker pyls will try to tell me that maybe he is doing it on purpose like he has some master plan. Uh yeah... no. i know he doesn't LOL. It doesn't even cross his mind.

It is now a joke between us that the last morning before i catch my flight to go home i sit on the plane before it takes off and send him angry texts of all the ways he failed me that visit. It took me doing that probably 6 months before he brought it up at breakfast the last day and said i may as well just tell him now thinking i couldn't possibly have anything on my list that time. The visible shock in his face when i listed off the same god damn things i list every fucking time was priceless.

Human beings have this tendency to love other people the way they want to be loved even when they have been given a very clear road map of how that other person really wants to be loved. my husband and i do this to each other constantly. Daddy thought because he took me out to dinner and bought me a present i would be all happy and warm and fuzzy inside. i just wanted a bath and my hair brushed, like i always want. To me its like.... Duh... and yet here we are still going around.

So what do i get out of it? i get unconditional love and acceptance and freedom of expression and that really is priceless. i also get someone who has infinite patience and compassion for my PTSD and Bi-Polar problems. i have in large part let go of my desires for some of the fluffy stuff and am mostly content with what i get. i'm not always content when we are together, we still have our little showdowns but i'm not fixated on it all the time. i'm not thinking about it when we aren't together. i don't really hold a grudge anymore partly because i don't hold it inside anymore.

Sometimes we have this idea of what our D/s relationship should be like but it just isn't compatible with the D and the s in the relationship. Daddy just isn't the guy that is going to do all that stuff i used to fantasize about and yet i know he is the right Daddy for me.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Hmm i've kind of painted my Daddy a bit inaccurately. He actually does do stuff for me its just in a weird way like bringing me candy that i've told him i don't like.

Its not that he doesn't think about me and do stuff for me. He just doesn't cater to what i think i want. He is thoughtful in the ways he wants to be. He goes shopping for me because he enjoys thinking about owning me and keeping me captive and bringing me small gifts when he does it. He's not shopping to make me happy.

He did buy me a backpack for all my shit and he keeps it with him and he got me a pacifier..... 5 months after it occurred to him i would probably love one. Hey at least it was his idea. i had never said anything but i certainly was hoping

 

[BiBunny]

Ataxia, is your Daddy related to my Master and Mistress?

I can really relate to a lot of the things you say. Not necessarily the tantrumming parts, but a lot of the other stuff. I'm stuck in this very weird area between little girl/pet and service submissive, and I feel like nobody, even me most of the time, gets it.

I mean, really, everyone here can call me not submissive if they want, but sometimes it hurts like hell to always do your best to be thoughtful and giving and attentive to someone else's needs when it feels like they never even bother to do the same for you.

When I go to bed and ask if you could please come snuggle with me for a few minutes before I fall asleep, and you won't do it because you're too fucking busy playing World of Warcraft (yes, true story, and it was her, not him), then does that make me overly sensitive, or does that make you an asshole?

That particular thing has happened on multiple occasions. And pretty much any variation of me asking for something and then being blown off has happened, too.

Ok, so I'm not a good sub. But can you really treat someone that way for an extended period of time and then expect them not to get upset? Especially if you have the balls to act confused about why they're so upset and then try to always turn it around and blame it on them.

I have never in my life questioned my own sanity as much as I do now. Am I being too sensitive? Do they really mean this the way it seems like they do? Do they fucking want me or not? Am I just crazy?

I don't have the answers.

 

[Netzach]

Hmm i've kind of painted my Daddy a bit inaccurately. He actually does do stuff for me its just in a weird way like bringing me candy that i've told him i don't like.

Its not that he doesn't think about me and do stuff for me. He just doesn't cater to what i think i want. He is thoughtful in the ways he wants to be. He goes shopping for me because he enjoys thinking about owning me and keeping me captive and bringing me small gifts when he does it. He's not shopping to make me happy.

He did buy me a backpack for all my shit and he keeps it with him and he got me a pacifier..... 5 months after it occurred to him i would probably love one. Hey at least it was his idea. i had never said anything but i certainly was hoping

While my relationship couldn't be more different with T in its dynamic, this aspect is similar. When I was doing "let's switch round 1" I stopped because I couldn't deal with the reality of part/time relational stuff without being in control of the on and the off and everything else, because I had specific fantasies that were you know NNNEEEEEDS or whatever.

After about 5-8 years whatever of saying "you know what, let's just I top you" and trying it again, it was totally different for me. I was just in a different place. I don't get the candy I actually like, metaphorically, but I like the candy I get now, infinitely more. I ask for things. I sometimes nag for things, mildly, but drop it easily. I get some of them. I get some stuff I didn't ask for, too.

 

[ataxia.girl]

While my relationship couldn't be more different with T in its dynamic, this aspect is similar. When I was doing "let's switch round 1" I stopped because I couldn't deal with the reality of part/time relational stuff without being in control of the on and the off and everything else, because I had specific fantasies that were you know NNNEEEEEDS or whatever.

After about 5-8 years whatever of saying "you know what, let's just I top you" and trying it again, it was totally different for me. I was just in a different place. I don't get the candy I actually like, metaphorically, but I like the candy I get now, infinitely more. I ask for things. I sometimes nag for things, mildly, but drop it easily. I get some of them. I get some stuff I didn't ask for, too.

Me too. In fact compared to what i do get the candy i wanted seems pretty superficial.

 

[Netzach]

When I go to bed and ask if you could please come snuggle with me for a few minutes before I fall asleep, and you won't do it because you're too fucking busy playing World of Warcraft (yes, true story, and it was her, not him), then does that make me overly sensitive, or does that make you an asshole?

That particular thing has happened on multiple occasions.

That kind of thing is lame if it's a total consistent pattern in either direction. For example, if EVERY time you go to sleep you need to be cuddled, they might be feeling a bit trapped into a weird parental non-adulty thing they don't like (even if they like it at other times) - however if EVERY time you ask for it gaming takes precedence that's, IMO, lame.

If it exists somewhere in the middle, it can probably be negotiated logically and unemotionally. "Hey, guys, if I ask for it three times it means it's VERY important, I at least need to hear "I'm not going to do that right now, but I love you very much and it doesn't mean I don't, I just am choosing to do this, and I'd like to do that with you at this particular time (which they do not then forget)"

 

[ataxia.girl]

i tried to be perfect little slave girl at first too. i did it for 3 or 4 months before i just snapped and ever since then we have been the way we are and it works. He doesn't love me any less. i still don't get a lot of the things i thought i wanted or still think i do but i will tell you being accepted unconditionally makes all that stuff not matter.

 

[BiBunny]

That kind of thing is lame if it's a total consistent pattern in either direction. For example, if EVERY time you go to sleep you need to be cuddled, they might be feeling a bit trapped into a weird parental non-adulty thing they don't like (even if they like it at other times) - however if EVERY time you ask for it gaming takes precedence that's, IMO, lame.

If it exists somewhere in the middle, it can probably be negotiated logically and unemotionally. "Hey, guys, if I ask for it three times it means it's VERY important, I at least need to hear "I'm not going to do that right now, but I love you very much and it doesn't mean I don't, I just am choosing to do this, and I'd like to do that with you at this particular time (which they do not then forget)"

Right. If I asked either of them to do that even on a semi-regular basis, I'd understand them being annoyed and saying not tonight. But I rarely ask. I'd always hoped that the fact that I rarely ask for anything would tip them off that when I DO ask, it's kind of a big deal.

Maybe I expect too much.

i tried to be perfect little slave girl at first too. i did it for 3 or 4 months before i just snapped and ever since then we have been the way we are and it works. He doesn't love me any less. i still don't get a lot of the things i thought i wanted or still think i do but i will tell you being accepted unconditionally makes all that stuff not matter.

I've tried for the better part of the year. I'm on strike now. I think if I can ever get to that point of knowing I'm accepted unconditionally, things will be much better.

In their defense, they aren't total shits. Just clueless at the worst possible times.

Like today, I was being kind of obnoxiously whiny and needy to him on IM. He called me just so I could hear his voice for a little while, listen to him talking to me like a little girl. It helped a lot.

If they could just be more consistently thoughtful and more consistently accepting of me, I'd be fine.

 

[ataxia.girl]

I've tried for the better part of the year. I'm on strike now. I think if I can ever get to that point of knowing I'm accepted unconditionally, things will be much better.

In their defense, they aren't total shits. Just clueless at the worst possible times.

Like today, I was being kind of obnoxiously whiny and needy to him on IM. He called me just so I could hear his voice for a little while, listen to him talking to me like a little girl. It helped a lot.

If they could just be more consistently thoughtful and more consistently accepting of me, I'd be fine.

Who's idea was this expectation that you never whine for what you want? Is that what they want or do you put that expectation on yourself out of fear of not being accepted?

Testing is actually a very important part of the whole process. i'm a firm believer in it. Testing and then being reassured that they still accept and love you but that you are NOT the boss can actually take things to a more comfortable level.

This is just what has worked for me. When i was being all perfect and obedient i was riddled with insecurity. After i started testing and testing and testing and figured out there was NOTHING i could do that was going to change how he treated me or his desire for me the insecurity went away and i now test much less.

i can see how you would have a really hard time doing this when they have already thrown out the obey or leave thing. Its hard to test and figure out just how firm the ground you are standing on really is in that framework.

 

[ataxia.girl]

Right. If I asked either of them to do that even on a semi-regular basis, I'd understand them being annoyed and saying not tonight. But I rarely ask. I'd always hoped that the fact that I rarely ask for anything would tip them off that when I DO ask, it's kind of a big deal.

Maybe I expect too much.

If you desire and expect them to accept you unconditionally at some point that is going to have to go both ways. i don't think it means you have to do it first just that if they aren't the type to follow through or remember or do thoughtful things they probably never will be.

It might be a good exercise to try to articulate exactly what it is you DO get out of the deal.

my Daddy accepted and loved me unconditionally long before i began to reciprocate on any level. i accept him now and i love him very much and i no longer troll collar me for a better Daddy but i still reserve the right to get mad at him

We've reached a very comfortable place but it was not painless and insecure feeling free getting here. Love is usually a gamble but you have to take risks if you are going to get what you need\want\desire\don't know you need\want\desire yet but know it when you get it.

 

[rida]

Right. If I asked either of them to do that even on a semi-regular basis, I'd understand them being annoyed and saying not tonight. But I rarely ask. I'd always hoped that the fact that I rarely ask for anything would tip them off that when I DO ask, it's kind of a big deal.

Maybe I expect too much.

The bolded part? I think I've said that same thing to Hubby like ... oh, a thousand times? LOL

The fact is that just because I know that I ask only once every 100 times, he does not know that I kept from asking the other 99 times. So to him is just one little request, and if he is busy or not feeling like it, he just does not see the big deal in ignoring/blowing it off. It has nothing to do with whether he loves me or not, he wants me or not. It is just he does not understand it.

So I've learned to word it differently. Explaining that I really really really need it right now. And since we have introduced D/s into our marriage, it made it easier to accept what I don't get as part of the fact his needs and desires come first (this works for me because I'm wired for emotional masochism of the abnegation/annihilation of self desires type ... ).

 

[ultramarineblue]

There are so many things I identify with in this thread that I would bore everyone, myself included, responding to them.

The picture/status thing I get. It's something I've struggled with too. It's made me wonder if he was still searching just in case he found something better. I haven't been able to talk about that one yet.

I've had to set some limits lately that really made me uncomfortable because again I don't feel that I have the right to set those limits. Without them, I wouldn't do well emotionally. It also fed into the what I was worth to him thing. When I was discussing the problems with him, the world felt like it was turned upside down.

Rida, as usual, you take something and show me the other side. I had not considered that since I only request things rarely, the fact that it doesn't happen often could make it seem inconsequential.

 

[incubus'_sub]

well, i haven't been on lit for ages and this is the 1st thread i've read through.

bunny, get out with your sanity and self respect. these people are ignorant, lazy, inconsiderate arseholes who don't want a sub, a pet or a slave but simply an unpaid servant to do their boring shit.

they could care less about your wellbeing or your income. that much is obvious and lengthy discussions won't make it better.

you're not happy or fulfilled. they can't decide what or who they want. ergo there's no relationship here.

sorry, but trying to "save" this awful situation is not worth your time and effort.

 

[BiBunny]

well, i haven't been on lit for ages and this is the 1st thread i've read through.

bunny, get out with your sanity and self respect. these people are ignorant, lazy, inconsiderate arseholes who don't want a sub, a pet or a slave but simply an unpaid servant to do their boring shit.

they could care less about your wellbeing or your income. that much is obvious and lengthy discussions won't make it better.

you're not happy or fulfilled. they can't decide what or who they want. ergo there's no relationship here.

sorry, but trying to "save" this awful situation is not worth your time and effort.

Thank you for your input.

 

[C Stephen]

Thank you for your input.

I second incubus'_sub's opinion. A D/s relationship needs to serve the needs of all the parties involved just like any other type of relationship. If you are unable to communicate and are feeling lessened or both parties can not agree on expectations, everyone stands to get hurt.
If you have tried to communicate your needs and feelings without being heard it is time to get out. Respect your self and keep an open heart and it is amazing how much better things work when you least expect them to.

 

[Sweetdaisymae]

I would agree with the two above posters, any relationship that is screwing with your head this much is not a viable long term option.

You as an individual have certain needs that this situation is not fulfilling. Communication sounds poor to non existant and without communication any relationship is pretty empty and destined for failure.

Don't stay somewhere that u feel is not good/healthy for you, sometimes you have to think about number 1.

 

[BiBunny]

I second incubus'_sub's opinion. A D/s relationship needs to serve the needs of all the parties involved just like any other type of relationship. If you are unable to communicate and are feeling lessened or both parties can not agree on expectations, everyone stands to get hurt.
If you have tried to communicate your needs and feelings without being heard it is time to get out. Respect your self and keep an open heart and it is amazing how much better things work when you least expect them to.

I would agree with the two above posters, any relationship that is screwing with your head this much is not a viable long term option.

You as an individual have certain needs that this situation is not fulfilling. Communication sounds poor to non existant and without communication any relationship is pretty empty and destined for failure.

Don't stay somewhere that u feel is not good/healthy for you, sometimes you have to think about number 1.

Thank you for your input.