M/s...why or why not?

[rosco rathbone]

it is sooo sooooo not in the realm of "don't like." i would rather lick the toilet clean with my tongue than receive oral. i would gladly take a broken rib rather than receive oral. it is like Netz's M. with chickens in the slaughterhouse. a complete and utter psychological horror movie come to life.

but how many people would ache for me if i told them i had a horrible monster of a Master who ate my pussy all the time, making my life utter sh*t and i desperately wished i could leave? not too many, i'm guessing. but if i mention a broken bone or peeing blood from one too many kicks to the kidneys, a hundred angry strangers would come racing to the rescue if i let them. why?

we're all different, more folks have to recognize and accept that. someone with my personality, wiring, conditioning, whatever...can handle broken bones and bloody pee. i can't handle being eaten out or f*cking chicks or wearing a strap-on or a million other things a lot of the same folks would find to be nothing cruel or extraordinary.

I can top that for sheer horror... a master who licks your pussy every day and asks you "did you come yet? did you? Howm I doin?"

 

[intothewoods]

it is sooo sooooo not in the realm of "don't like." i would rather lick the toilet clean with my tongue than receive oral. i would gladly take a broken rib rather than receive oral. it is like Netz's M. with chickens in the slaughterhouse. a complete and utter psychological horror movie come to life.

but how many people would ache for me if i told them i had a horrible monster of a Master who ate my pussy all the time, making my life utter sh*t and i desperately wished i could leave? not too many, i'm guessing. but if i mention a broken bone or peeing blood from one too many kicks to the kidneys, a hundred angry strangers would come racing to the rescue if i let them. why?

we're all different, more folks have to recognize and accept that. someone with my personality, wiring, conditioning, whatever...can handle broken bones and bloody pee. i can't handle being eaten out or f*cking chicks or wearing a strap-on or a million other things a lot of the same folks would find to be nothing cruel or extraordinary.

Ok, I don't want to lick the toilet clean. But I really would be unhappy. Where's my pity party!

I can top that for sheer horror... a master who licks your pussy every day and asks you "did you come yet? did you? Howm I doin?"

 

[ownedsubgal]

I can top that for sheer horror... a master who licks your pussy every day and asks you "did you come yet? did you? Howm I doin?"

talk about a great reason to walk out into rush hour beltway traffic.

 

[Keroin]

Ownership is highlighted because JM searched the word "ownership" to find that link. I think.

As to the bold part, it's one tug of war. My experience in the bdsm world is limited to my local scene, this board and fetlife, but there seem to be many different camps and the camps butt heads from time to time. Eh, whadya gonna do.

I also had the "is that healthy" kneejerk reaction repeatedly for a period of time. The answer has been "no," plenty of times, but I'm not in charge of the world. At some point, I maybe became jaded at reading about nuttiness after nuttiness and it didn't faze me. And I finally came to feel that my life was healthy and so everyone else didn't really matter. Although I'm still not going to say "who are we to judge" to everything just because it's bdsm. But people will do what they want to do, regardless of whether it receives the ITW stamp of approval. (Shocking, I know!) If some people want to do batshit crazy stuff in their life, that's cool, we can chit chat at a party, but I'm not inviting them over for dinner. I'm not saying that is what's behind your reaction. Just sharing my experience.

Thanks for that. As for the part in bold - yes, shocking! LOL.

Now I understand the red text, I thought maybe there was some secret code I'd yet to be instructed in.

I'm human. I have opinions and gut reactions, I can't help that. I accept that everyone has to live their life the way they see fit. However I may interpret their actions, doesn't really change anything. But, yeah, I'll be honest, I read some stuff - and this is coming from someone who has engaged in many extreme activities - and my instant reaction is, "That's fucking nuts." Generally I keep my yap shut about it because, if it does not put anyone else in harm's way then it really is none of my business.

But, like I said, I'm human. Sometimes my reactions slip out.

 

[Keroin]

No, you are not the only one. I was thinking the same.

Last year I injured my tail bone and my sacral bone. The pain was intense and sitting was basically unbearable. I wouldn't have been able to concentrate on driving.

And then there were two. LOL.

 

[Keroin]

That's a really good point. I have no idea what driving conditions are where they were. It's entirely likely that no one else was at substantial risk and they were in the middle of remote Pyrenees or who knows what, too.

Endangering and exposing other people is kind of a dick move, and if this is crowded city conditions, I think this kind of exposure merits at least as much consideration as other people's children staring up your pantiless minidress kinds of worries, which most of us would neeeeever do.

I'm trying to decide if you're being sarcastic. *But ITW thinks you're not and now I think I see that*I would think that endangering other people is slightly more serious than some kid catching a peek of free roaming cootch.

I did a little searching on Lit but only found snippets of the event. It seems the initial drive was for 14 hours. I find it hard to believe that you can drive anywhere for 14 hours without encountering any kind of traffic, even where I'm from, and that's a big, bunch of empty in lots of places. I don't want to beat up on someone in absentia but my gut tells me this action was a tad irresponsible.

Yes, I've done tons of crazy shit that most other people would never consider but...

1. I never exposed non-participants to my crazy shit, in any way.

2. There was always a first aid person/paramedics/firefighters standing by.

3. I was fiscally prepared so that if anything happened to me I knew a nice fat cheque would come in every month to pay for the people who would have to change my diapers and so that responsibility would not fall on the shoulders of someone I loved.

Again, *just me*, but I could never get my thrills knowing someone else might have to pay the price for it.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't think she was being sarcastic.

 

[graceanne]

i just do not like the classifications of Masters as "bad" or "good" based on how gentle and fairy-tale like they treat their slaves...nor do i like this idea that a Master must be ever-flawless and fair.

I agree, but I think the same should be awarded to sub/slaves. You might try really hard to be good, but people are people and fuck up's happen.

I have, at one point, gotten some flack for staying with K when he has the temper issues he has. Some people consider it abusive. What I said was something along the lines of when I'm perfect person I'll find myself a perfect mate, but so far that hasn't happened so I'll stick with the one I've got.

Beyond that, there are things that happen on this board (like sharing) that would SERIOUSLY fuck with me. I don't tell people who do that to toss the relationship. And I don't really care if people think that K's abusive.

 

[nh23]

you make a good point and i don't argue this. everyone has a breaking point. just because i am a slave who accepts whatever he decides to dish out, does not mean that i cannot understand or relate to those slaves who will not, who will draw a line at some point even if it means breaking their heart.

i just do not like the classifications of Masters as "bad" or "good" based on how gentle and fairy-tale like they treat their slaves...nor do i like this idea that a Master must be ever-flawless and fair.

That's fair. How should I word it then?

 

[MisterSir]

And for those who would say "how horrible such things are, that's abuse, blah blah blah" - so don't pick a Master like osg's. If you can't handle the examples she gave, don't pick a Master who's going to use them. If you want someone who IS thoughtful, kind, etc. all the time, then don't partner up with someone who won't be.

Note I was careful not to use the word "abuse". I'll remove the complain about being thrown down the stairs because, while I think it's stupid as you've got no control over what happens once gravity, it is between the two of you, but even the most hardened slave has to acknowledge that doing something like the driving examples is reckless and bloody dangerous - not just to the slave, but to the other users of the road. They haven't consented to being part of this game, and a driver involved in an accident caused by the slave who's probably in serious pain isn't going to be too pleased with the explanation "but master told me to do it".

 

[Keroin]

I don't think she was being sarcastic.

Thanks. Yes, reading again, post-afternoon nap, I can see that. Sometimes I find it hard to decipher Netz, especially if I'm very tired, as was the case this morning.

 

[Homburg]

I'm curious about how much M's consider the legal implications. I mean what if you were to "break your toy" and said toy or the family of the toy went after you legally?

I do.

Can't say it better than that.

--

most Owners with any common sense know their toys. that is why the trust thing goes both ways. if anything, my Master needs to trust me far more than i need to trust him. if i don't trust him, or don't trust him completely, i'm still a slave, life still goes on, it's just not quite as comfy. if he doesn't trust me, he does not have the freedom and peace of mind required to truly live and just be himself. He has to wonder and worry and second guess.

Quoted for truth.

--

Have you come across many M/s unions that were similar to each other?

Though the external details of our lives differ greatly, I have identified with many of the feelings and internal experiences you have expressed. By definition, I think the shape of the relationship depends on the nature of the master in an M/s relationship. But I find it very interesting that the feeling-experience of the slave no matter what the circumstances are often bear striking similarities.

I'd be curious if masters feel the same way.

This is probably a topic for a whole thread.

I've honestly come across very few males in M/f M/s that I identified with. Respect, yes, and even like on occasion, but very few that I identify with. But, honestly, I'm the same way with male dominants in general. I just don't get them all too often.

--

Did cat's M have a medical background?

F has a combat background, and, from what I vaguely recall, training at least equivalent to what we would call Combat Lifesaver. I don't remember if it was anything beyond that though.

--

I don't consider a D/s or M/s relationship to be only about how we fuck.

It was a euphemism. I got tired of typing "dynamic" again and again.

I would think that you would know me better than that.

--

BTW, it was interesting reading Homburg pre-MIS and at the beginnings of his entry into M/s (or whatever he chooses to call it). Also his declaration that poly is "damn hard work". LOL

It is damned hard work. And I am the first person to call myself a Work In Progress.

--

Sorry, I know that sounds harsh but in the world I came from you just didn't fuck around with automobiles except under controlled circumstances. So, this is my personal thing. It's likely I'm the only person here who feels this way and that's fine. To each his own, etc.

*Raises hand*

Insurance guy. I see wrecked and destroyed cars, trucks, etc on a daily basis, and deal with the wrecked lives associated with those wrecked autos.

So, no. Not the only one.

--

but those Masters, they are such independent creatures. i don't think there is usually that same desire for belonging or kinship with them. i do not think that Daddy would care if he were the only Master, the only Dominant, the only Graphic Designer, the only Musician, the only Man on earth...he is just so comfortable and confident in who he is and his own path. at least, that's the way it looks from this end.

As I said above, I don't usually get on like wildfire with most male dominants. I'm too unlike them to find common, or we grate for whatever reason, or just don't click.

There are some on here that I get on well enough with, and have corresponded with by PM or other methods. It's not like I dislike other Mdoms. Just, eh. It's the cat and duck theory. When a cat sees a duck, the first thought is "Hey, that's a bird. I could eat it." Then the cat realises, "Fuck, that's a big bird." The next step is for the cat to decide that the duck has no bearing on its' reality. The duck is not relevant. Other Mdoms are that way for me. If their personalities are such that we get on simply as people, cool. But I'm not interested in interacting with someone because they share my specific orientation.

 

[Keroin]

*Raises hand*

Insurance guy. I see wrecked and destroyed cars, trucks, etc on a daily basis, and deal with the wrecked lives associated with those wrecked autos.

So, no. Not the only one.

Thanks for the input - sorry for all the thread jacking, osg. I had a vague suspicion, considering your line of work, that you might be with me on this. Looks like there are a few others, too.

P.S. - we're all works in progress, it was just interesting to read you at a different point in the progression, that's all.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Essentially I'm not into the literal property thing but more than that Mister Man isn't really into talking about bdsm. He doesn't like workshops. Doesn't like Fetlife. Doesn't like literotica. Doesn't like kink events. He likes kinky sex and considers himself dominant and in charge of me and the relationship. At this point, I feel like call it what you will. I could call myself whatever I want for my own entertainment, but it doesn't really matter.

Think we can identify with Mister MAn. Talking and mixing is all very good, but living it is way better and some of those who talk about it or get into public venue areas do not actually do much or anything associated with it at home. I have known a few people who are all for getting into something (flogging, caning etc.,) at a club (or workshop or party etc.), but once home and the doors are closed, couldn't care less and don't do anything.

Catalina

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

I am in a Master/slave, Dom/sub, Daddy/little girl, Boyfreind/girlfriend, and Best friend/best friend relationship with My girl.

To me, labels are overrated in BDSM. Yes, they help newbies to find an identity and a direction in the lifestyle. But after you get some experience they become more of a nuisance than a help.

I also think people can get a little too philosophical at times with trying to capture the emotions and feelings behind being Dom or sub. Sometimes it just ain't that deep.

I like to take control and My girl likes to give up control. For Us, 1 + 1 = 2. Its as simple as that.

No disrespect to anyone. Just stating my opinion.

 

[ataxia.girl]

eh, it's a slave life, no further explanation really required. sometimes our Masters/Owners may push us to extremes. but i certainly wouldn't label Catalina as someone who is abused and absolutely would not label Francisco as an abuser...they are a very loving and devoted M/s couple. but they are M/s. there's a higher likelihood of extremes popping up when you are talking about Owner/property vs. ward and june. does it have to be that way? as nh stated, of course not. some Masters would never ever go there. but they can go there, that is a major distinction between M/s and D/s.

This is where i get really confused and befuddled when trying to classify myself which i realize isn't really necessary. my Daddy is mostly always gentle and loving except when i am throwing a fit but even then he is not very severe, at least not in my eyes... i've still been dry raped in the ass over the bathroom counter till there was blood dripping down my legs and onto the floor and we're not talking about a few drops we're talking it took awhile for it to stop when everything was over and going potty wasn't so fun for a few days. These things happen. They aren't negotiated or discussed. Daddy isn't really a sadist but sometimes he has to make a point i guess. Because i am so willful and often uncooperative and obstinate i hesitate to call myself a slave or even a sub and yet i set no limits and am thought of as owned property.

Always i have had this fascination with being owned and yet not necessarily submitting. To resist and be so easily overwhelmed is just so fucking hot to me. i hear Doms complain about not wanting to deal with willful subs but honestly my Daddy makes it look so easy its hard for me to relate to their irritation.

i don't want to be a slave but i like being thought of as owned. i don't know what that is or what it is about.

As for Masters having to be good i think i am with osg on that one. i used to have a fairytale ideal of what my "Daddy" should be but Daddy has shown me another far more realistic way. He knew i was going to fight, be inconsistent, rail against him and hate him at times. That will likely never change but in the end he is simply far more Dominant than i am. i try to leave him every other month because i've decided he's thoughtless, doesn't give me enough attention, forgets to do what he said he would, etc. but i can't. He offers too much stability, emotional security and unconditional love. He would not be a good Master for a lot of women but he is a very good Daddy for me.

In the end his will is simply stronger than mine and i am comforted that a man with a stronger will than my own wishes to keep me. There is basically only one line in our conceptual "contract"... he will never leave me. This again is where we are very Daddy/girl with more incestuous overtones versus M/s or D/s. Most Daddies do not disown their daughters over bad behavior. Some do but i know mine will not and i need that security because i know eventually i will behave badly, sometimes very badly.

 

[graceanne]

It was a euphemism. I got tired of typing "dynamic" again and again.

I would think that you would know me better than that.

.

Ok. I have to admit I was a bit surprised to hear that from you, but evidnelty I was being too literally. lol

 

[Homburg]

Ok. I have to admit I was a bit surprised to hear that from you, but evidnelty I was being too literally. lol

I figured that was the case.

 

[intothewoods]

I figured that was the case.

Ok. I have to admit I was a bit surprised to hear that from you, but evidnelty I was being too literally. lol

I still think the question of what your dynamic looks like in non-private moments, vis-a-vis your kids, is an interesting one. Your relationship, whatever it is, serves as a model, even if your kids reject it entirely. I'm not suggesting this is some terrible thing. I am just mindful of it in my own life. They are such little sponges. It's fascinating.

 

[Homburg]

I still think the question of what your dynamic looks like in non-private moments, vis-a-vis your kids, is an interesting one. Your relationship, whatever it is, serves as a model, even if your kids reject it entirely. I'm not suggesting this is some terrible thing. I am just mindful of it in my own life. They are such little sponges. It's fascinating.

About the only thing they see of our dynamic is when viv or MIS will ask me if it is okay that they do some thing. And that is rather uncommon, as we've been together long enough that they don't need to ask for guidance. They just act in accordance with how I want them to. There are no shows of deference or any sort of stilted behaviour.

It is obvious who is in charge, but it is not blatant, if that makes sense.

It's not that the dynamic is bedroom-only, more like the reverse of that. Instead of being limited to one area, it is just excluded from one area, and that area is anywhere near the kids.

That said, even in private we're not stilted and unnatural. The girls call me master, but it is more of term of endearment than title. And I don't go for kneeling and posturing and all that. My attitude is that we all have lives to live. M/s is just how we relate to each other.

 

[graceanne]

About the only thing they see of our dynamic is when viv or MIS will ask me if it is okay that they do some thing. And that is rather uncommon, as we've been together long enough that they don't need to ask for guidance. They just act in accordance with how I want them to. There are no shows of deference or any sort of stilted behaviour.

It is obvious who is in charge, but it is not blatant, if that makes sense.

It's not that the dynamic is bedroom-only, more like the reverse of that. Instead of being limited to one area, it is just excluded from one area, and that area is anywhere near the kids.

That said, even in private we're not stilted and unnatural. The girls call me master, but it is more of term of endearment than title. And I don't go for kneeling and posturing and all that. My attitude is that we all have lives to live. M/s is just how we relate to each other.

I'm seriously considering restarting the quotable thread, cause there's so much in this post that's quotable. But I'm in Georgia, and about to lay down and take a nap, so I just bolded the best parts.

 

[Homburg]

I'm seriously considering restarting the quotable thread, cause there's so much in this post that's quotable. But I'm in Georgia, and about to lay down and take a nap, so I just bolded the best parts.

Thank you. I wasn't trying to be quotable. Just trying to express how we live.

 

[graceanne]

Thank you. I wasn't trying to be quotable. Just trying to express how we live.

I know. Those are the best quotes, the ones that are on accident.

 

[ownedsubgal]

That's fair. How should I word it then?

no need to reword anything, your feelings are more than valid. that's just my own personal hang-up really. the idea of there being some standardized acceptable and appropriate model of behavior for Masters/Owners really bothers me, but i realize it's comforting for most. part of my issue also has to do with self-defense...i'm not quite as strong as Grace in that area, it bothers me when others think of my Master as "bad," especially for doing no more than acting within his rights as an Owner.

 

[ownedsubgal]

About the only thing they see of our dynamic is when viv or MIS will ask me if it is okay that they do some thing. And that is rather uncommon, as we've been together long enough that they don't need to ask for guidance. They just act in accordance with how I want them to. There are no shows of deference or any sort of stilted behaviour.

It is obvious who is in charge, but it is not blatant, if that makes sense.

It's not that the dynamic is bedroom-only, more like the reverse of that. Instead of being limited to one area, it is just excluded from one area, and that area is anywhere near the kids.

Homburg, if this isn't too rude or inappropriate a question, may i ask why this is the case? why have you chosen to completely hide the authority dynamic that exists in your household from your children? i ask because that seems like a great deal of effort, keeping under cover both who you are and the reality of the relationship you have with your girls. this would be absolutely impossible for Daddy and i, as it is only natural that i defer to him in all things and he naturally treats me in a very authoritative and somewhat condescending manner. so it is crystal clear to his son that i am very submissive to his father and that i am not an authority figure. we also see nothing wrong with this model, as it is basically a traditional male HOH type of thing.

do you feel that such a model would somehow provide an unhealthy or negative example for your children?