M/s...why or why not?

[Keroin]

Excuse the hijack - but is Chuck still the penguin or is Chuck the codename for your PYL/significant other?

Both.

LOL.

I started using the name in quotes to denote my PYL/SO but the quotes started annoying me so I dropped them. So yes to the latter.

 

[Netzach]

that sounds too much like testing to me, as opposed to letting go and just living.

I just want to point out the pro-argument people have been three Jewish girls thus far.

If you're not arguing you're just not paying attention.

 

[Keroin]

Like Rosco, I'm a control freak, no question! I want things in my home the way I want them, have ZERO patience for pushback, arguing, or negotiation in day-to-day living, and absolutely must be the aggressor or one in control in order to become physically aroused.

Interesting. This is my idea of slavery.

 

[Netzach]

Interesting. This is my idea of slavery.

I'm going to sound really cuntive saying this, and Jmo knows I like him well enough. But in the abstract, I see that on paper and I'm getting off on perceptions of chinks in the armor. If someone's that tightwrapped, there's got to be a flaw there, yummy.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I just want to point out the pro-argument people have been three Jewish girls thus far.

If you're not arguing you're just not paying attention.

You guys lost the plot sometime between 1 Samuel and now. What happened to all the Abigail, "bowed herself on her face to the earth, and said, Behold, let thine handmaid be a servant to wash the feet of the servants of my lord." stuff.

 

[Keroin]

I'm going to sound really cuntive saying this, and Jmo knows I like him well enough. But in the abstract, I see that on paper and I'm getting off on perceptions of chinks in the armor. If someone's that tightwrapped, there's got to be a flaw there, yummy.

You crack me up.

Assuming I could cook well enough that others would want to eat it, dinner every night at 7pm? Cod, that's like the ninth circle of hell for me.

Do most people live this way?

(I've learned to like him too, or least what I know of him online.)

 

[ownedsubgal]

You crack me up.

Assuming I could cook well enough that others would want to eat it, dinner every night at 7pm? Cod, that's like the ninth circle of hell for me.

Do most people live this way?

(I've learned to like him too, or least what I know of him online.)

expecting dinner at a specified time is pretty normal in and outside of D/s i think. plenty of vanilla wives know to have food on the table when Hubby gets home from work, and strangely enough growing up my Dad (who did all domestic stuff) would always make sure to have dinner ready to sit down and eat at 6.30.

 

[graceanne]

expecting dinner at a specified time is pretty normal in and outside of D/s i think. plenty of vanilla wives know to have food on the table when Hubby gets home from work, and strangely enough growing up my Dad (who did all domestic stuff) would always make sure to have dinner ready to sit down and eat at 6.30.

It's better for kids, too, if you have meals at the same time every day. I don't always manage it, but I try.

 

[ownedsubgal]

It's better for kids, too, if you have meals at the same time every day. I don't always manage it, but I try.

very true. kids need consistency, stability. but heck, i need that too, so dinner M-Thu at 7, takeout or dinner out on friday, sunday brunch at 12.30, week after week year after year works for me.

 

[MisterSir]

I just want to point out the pro-argument people have been three Jewish girls thus far.

If you're not arguing you're just not paying attention.

That's what Jewish women do? Explains a lot about the only Jew I know well, believe it or don't. Can I expect anything else?

 

[graceanne]

very true. kids need consistency, stability. but heck, i need that too, so dinner M-Thu at 7, takeout or dinner out on friday, sunday brunch at 12.30, week after week year after year works for me.

I don't do so well at making sure dinner is at the same time, but that quite often ties into the whole 'license' thing - I'm running someone somewhere.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I don't do so well at making sure dinner is at the same time, but that quite often ties into the whole 'license' thing - I'm running someone somewhere.

sounds like something legitimate and sound to point out to K...just come up with a clear and concise list of maybe 4 more of those, and maybe he'll reconsider the whole driving thing. ya never know.

 

[Homburg]

I think our style is really more D as leader. Benevolent leader maybe? It's definitely not role play, since it's always there. Actually, come to think of it, M/s feels like role play to me, and I think that's not because it is role play but because to me, it's not a natural fit.

Yeah, this. I think that is why D/s didn't sit with me as well, but M/s does. With D/s, I felt bogged down by trappings, contracts, etc. M/s, and lack of trappings, is much more natural, less role-ish.

--

If the lack of this is an M/s relationship, then that's what K and I have. Not that we call it that.

I maintain veto rights on the kids, but I rarely use it. The only time I do is when K is so mad he's not thinking clearly. If he was a man who didn't ever lose his temper I'd never use my veto rights.

But, whether I agree with his decisions or not, if he makes one (even regarding the kids), and he's totally calm and rational when he makes it I'll tell them flat out that he's the boss. I might, later, talk to him about his decision, and we might hash it out in private, but that's as far as it goes.

To me, this makes sense. Kids are outside the dynamic, period.

I wasn't remarking on how things work with you and viv.

I was making a joke at my own expense. It just came off poorly. She is ten times the parent I am, and we both know it. So she really does handle the majority of parenty stuff. I assist.

For us, at one point, K and I tried a TPE and he became a total fucking asshole. We nearly ended up divorced. Suddenly he didn't have to convey common respect to anyone (please, thank you, etc). It lasted three months and it ended when his shitty attitude started conveying itself to the kids. If took me nearly six months to undo that bad decision on my part.

Yeach, that's horrible. I still say please and thank you, generally.

Honestly, if K wants something he usually gets it. Why? The whole 'submissive' thing, I guess. *shrugs* I think that when the kids get older we'll try the whole TPE thing again. For one thing every day he becomes a better man and learns to control his temper more. For another, I'd love to be in a TPE. It's just not gonna happen right now.

Another good point. Sometimes it's the right decision, just not right *now*.

--

I know that this has absolutely nothing to do with your post as a whole, but this made me think about how much I hate the implication that to push back, argue, negotiate, to have strong feelings about certain things, to express your opinions = brat. To me it just means that the power play within the relationship is more... dynamic. At least for me.

I see bratting as a very specific set of behaviours. There was a really great article that I found on it a while back. Interesting stuff, as it seems to be a particular subset of the personality archetype, and the behaviour pattern was remarkably consistent with someone that I was dealing with.

--

I just want to point out the pro-argument people have been three Jewish girls thus far.

If you're not arguing you're just not paying attention.

My jewish girl slave argues with me. It is respectful, and mindful of her place, but she'll still voice exceptions. And I'm perfectly happy with it, as I recognise that such things as physics and medicine are not interested in things like consent and BDSM dynamics, and I am not perfect.

--

I'm going to sound really cuntive saying this, and Jmo knows I like him well enough. But in the abstract, I see that on paper and I'm getting off on perceptions of chinks in the armor. If someone's that tightwrapped, there's got to be a flaw there, yummy.

--

You guys lost the plot sometime between 1 Samuel and now. What happened to all the Abigail, "bowed herself on her face to the earth, and said, Behold, let thine handmaid be a servant to wash the feet of the servants of my lord." stuff.

I always feel vaguely wrong when I find hotness in bible quotes.

 

[graceanne]

sounds like something legitimate and sound to point out to K...just come up with a clear and concise list of maybe 4 more of those, and maybe he'll reconsider the whole driving thing. ya never know.

Oh, he knows why things happen the way they do. His reasons for me having a license are legitimate, as much as I hate driving. Right now he's on his way to Iraq - I need to have a license. Maybe when he gets done with the army I can let it lapse. Or something.

 

[graceanne]

To me, this makes sense. Kids are outside the dynamic, period.

That's the point I was trying to make last night, but I was too tired.

I was making a joke at my own expense. It just came off poorly. She is ten times the parent I am, and we both know it. So she really does handle the majority of parenty stuff. I assist.

Also how things work with us. I've been parenting or assisting in parenting most of my life. I'm the oldest of six. I have more parenting experience in my right pinkie than he has in his whole body. But this is why I don't consider our relationship a TPE, because I maintain my power in that realm. Therefore we didn't exchange all the power, just most.

 

[intothewoods]

You crack me up.

Assuming I could cook well enough that others would want to eat it, dinner every night at 7pm? Cod, that's like the ninth circle of hell for me.

Do most people live this way?

(I've learned to like him too, or least what I know of him online.)

Dinner at a set time. Yep.

Both.

LOL.

I started using the name in quotes to denote my PYL/SO but the quotes started annoying me so I dropped them. So yes to the latter.

Thank you!

expecting dinner at a specified time is pretty normal in and outside of D/s i think. plenty of vanilla wives know to have food on the table when Hubby gets home from work, and strangely enough growing up my Dad (who did all domestic stuff) would always make sure to have dinner ready to sit down and eat at 6.30.

Yep.

It's better for kids, too, if you have meals at the same time every day. I don't always manage it, but I try.

Also yes.

that sounds too much like testing to me, as opposed to letting go and just living.

That's actually why I said not bratty, to make the distinction. Since I'm paid to be an advocate, I know there are many ways to argue, negotiate, make a point, etc. I can stomp my feet and be obstinate. I can put forth the information and clearly state my point of view. I can argue and bicker about every little thing. Or I could choose my battles and stick to the facts.

 

[intothewoods]

I just want to point out the pro-argument people have been three Jewish girls thus far.

If you're not arguing you're just not paying attention.

I have red hair, am Irish and Jewish.

 

[00Syd]

I don't even see it as that. I like information gathering.

Periodically M even....has a better idea than I did. OMG.

Listening is pretty awesome.

I just can't imagine my opinions not being considered, much less not being able to express them. I know that it works for some people to defer to their PYLs opinions/wants/whatever but for me that seems like it would be living my entire life in the high school classroom of the most frustratingly know-it-all, condescending teacher EVER. 9th circle of hell.

that sounds too much like testing to me, as opposed to letting go and just living.

It seems much more like "letting go and just living" to me. To self-censor seems like some sort of half-life. In what way does it seem like "testing" to you? Like as in, testing boundaries?

I just want to point out the pro-argument people have been three Jewish girls thus far.

If you're not arguing you're just not paying attention.

*snicker*

 

[nh23]

Listening is pretty awesome.

I just can't imagine my opinions not being considered, much less not being able to express them. I know that it works for some people to defer to their PYLs opinions/wants/whatever but for me that seems like it would be living my entire life in the high school classroom of the most frustratingly know-it-all, condescending teacher EVER. 9th circle of hell.

These are the same misconceptions I had about M/s relationships. I'm allowed to give my opinions, I'm allowed to speak up. He just has final say. And at times I'll speak up and he'll say yeah, you're right, we can do it your way.

 

[Keroin]

Wow. So am I abnormal?

None of my meals happen at set times. Is there anyone else out there who just eats when they're hungry?

 

[intothewoods]

These are the same misconceptions I had about M/s relationships. I'm allowed to give my opinions, I'm allowed to speak up. He just has final say. And at times I'll speak up and he'll say yeah, you're right, we can do it your way.

To be fair, this was sort of in response to JM's post about not liking arguing, negotiating or pushing back. He's not into M/s. On the other hand, in defense of JM, he has always said he appreciated and expects his partner to provide her point of view.

BDSM aside, I think many people view arguing and yelling differently depending on where they're from, cultural background, etc. I used to invite friends over for dinner who would say, wow, your family is LOUD.

We are not quiet or shy people. Ahem.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Wow. So am I abnormal?

None of my meals happen at set times. Is there anyone else out there who just eats when they're hungry?

that's the way i would roll if i were on my own, unowned, un-partnered, single and free. but i don't think that way is really practical when you live with others.

 

[intothewoods]

Wow. So am I abnormal?

None of my meals happen at set times. Is there anyone else out there who just eats when they're hungry?

I eat lunch when I'm hungry, and I'm always hungry by dinner time, but I can't get kidlet into bed by bedtime if there isn't a routine.

 

[JMohegan]

Interesting. This is my idea of slavery.

If the front door's wide open? Everybody understands that each partner is free to walk on out, at any time?

That's not slavery, it's willing participation by someone with a certain personality type. Some people are just naturally relaxed and satisfied when the other person is in charge in the day-to-day living of a personal relationship.

I understand your negative reaction, because I wouldn't last 3 minutes in a relationship with a person like me! I'm just disagreeing with your use of the slavery label to describe it.

And Netzach - I didn't find your comment "cuntive" at all.

You crack me up.

Assuming I could cook well enough that others would want to eat it, dinner every night at 7pm? Cod, that's like the ninth circle of hell for me.

You know, if you're not in the mood to cook, it's fine if you just pick up some sushi on the way home.

 

[graceanne]

that's the way i would roll if i were on my own, unowned, un-partnered, single and free. but i don't think that way is really practical when you live with others.

Yep.

I eat lunch when I'm hungry, and I'm always hungry by dinner time, but I can't get kidlet into bed by bedtime if there isn't a routine.

and yep.