Newsweek: "We are all Socialists Now"

[amicus]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/183663


COVER STORY: BUSINESS

We Are All Socialists Now

In many ways our economy already resembles a European one. As boomers age and spending grows, we will become even more French.

~~~

A poorly written article loaded and nuanced as to the 'inevitability' of the US, and the world in fact, tending to a command economy and a managed society.

Without accolades, most of this forum could be classified as 'closet' socialists, as the 'S' word is seldom bandied about in polite society.

Newsweek is just a news magazine, but still, it has been around a long time and one supposes, plays a role in the chit-chat of those in the know concerning Beltway politics.

So...how does this sit with the 'usual suspects' sitting around the table?

Amicus...

 

[Guest]

Ain't it cool?

 

[redpaint]

Not me, I'm an Old Marine

 

[manyeyedhydra]

I'd rather it was at least one thing or the other.

Privatising the profits while socializing the risks as has happened over the last few decades doesn't strike me as a particularly fair system.

 

[DesertPirate]

Obama's next project after signing Spendulous?

The deficit!

Does anyone else see the irony
Bend over here comes the tax man!

 

[Guest]

THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND
words and music by Woody Guthrie

Chorus:
This land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me

As I was walking a ribbon of highway
I saw above me an endless skyway
I saw below me a golden valley
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

I've roamed and rambled and I've followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

The sun comes shining as I was strolling
The wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice come chanting
This land was made for you and me

Chorus

As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

Chorus

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.

Chorus (2x)

 

[Huckleman2000]

Obama's next project after signing Spendulous?

The deficit!

Does anyone else see the irony
Bend over here comes the tax man!

I don't think irony means what you think it means.
In fact, I don't think anything you say makes any sense.

 

[amicus]

Ah, Sweets has been caught up in a time warp, whisked back to the dust bowl days of the thirties and the 'Kumbaiya)sp?)' of the times with that ole time socialist Woody Guthrie.

There was a 'Dickensonian' euphoria following the bolix of 'the great war', the war to end all wars', the failure of the League of Nations, the Great Depression and all the lil gramma's to Sweets & friends waving hammers and sickles preparing for mini-marx's to parade through the mainstreets of small town America.

The great power vacuum caused by the demise of Colonial Europe was quickly filled by two poisons of the identical nature, Fascists on the Left and Communists on the Left. Such a deal.

The poor lil Brit's with their tea stained teeth, whimpered and hustled back to the Island with tail between legs as Japan awoke and began gobbling up the left over colonists in Asia. Whooopee!

The Commie's took a chunk of China, the Nazi's a bite of Europe and the low countries and the stage was set, yet again.

It is difficult to judge the sadism or either the left or those of faith, both willing to sacrifice, altruistically of course, for the greater good or the powers that be, whichever offers the biggest piece of the pie.

Only innocent little girl childs and rosy cheeked old ladies, full of joy at the redemption of a nirvana for all, gaze with mesmerized eyes at the second coming.

When you hear the repetitive stomp of the jack-boots down Mockingbird Lane, Sweets, remember I told you so.

Amicus...

 

[DeeZire]

Obama's next project after signing Spendulous?

The deficit!

Does anyone else see the irony
Bend over here comes the tax man!

DP - do you see the irony? It was the conservatives, after all, who ran up a record deficit while they were in power. How else do we pay down the Bush deficit, if not with taxes?

You can't blame Obama for deficit spending while letting Bush off the hook. Oh, excuse me, you can, because you do it all the time.

 

[Guest]

"Solidarity Forever"
Lyrics by Ralph Chaplin
Written 1914-1915
Recorded by Almanac Singers, Pete Seeger, Joe Glazer
Performed by Utah Phillips

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run,
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun;
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one,
But the union makes us strong.

CHORUS:
Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
For the union makes us strong.

Is there aught we hold in common with the greedy parasite,
Who would lash us into serfdom and would crush us with his might?
Is there anything left to us but to organize and fight?
For the union makes us strong.

It is we who plowed the prairies; built the cities where they trade;
Dug the mines and built the workshops, endless miles of railroad laid;
Now we stand outcast and starving midst the wonders we have made;
But the union makes us strong.

All the world that's owned by idle drones is ours and ours alone.
We have laid the wide foundations; built it skyward stone by stone.
It is ours, not to slave in, but to master and to own.
While the union makes us strong.

They have taken untold millions that they never toiled to earn,
But without our brain and muscle not a single wheel can turn.
We can break their haughty power, gain our freedom when we learn
That the union makes us strong.

In our hands is placed a power greater than their hoarded gold,
Greater than the might of armies, magnified a thousand-fold.
We can bring to birth a new world from the ashes of the old
For the union makes us strong.

 

[amicus]

'ow nice of you..." with apologies to My Fair Lady, to dangle Pete Seeger as bait before this smarmy old nose.

I was thinking what a 'motley crue', all you little followers comprise,(but someone used that) a circus tent, with all the freaks welcome, no one excluded, no password required.

The hazy eyed old line socialists of the thirties, the folksie side of the sixties, and now harken back to the heyday of the power Union Mobsters than ran amuck.

Over in this corner we have the butchered babies corps, all wearing black, but to balance, adjunct are the dancing cross dressers and transgenders, strutting their stuff. In the middle, cuz they won't take a stand, are the huddled agnostics, shiftily glancing all ways at once.

Also near the center of the tent, a cadre of goose stepping educators, having left an empty class room of digital recorders recording a recording of an old Marxist chant long forgotten.

Then, scattered and tossed, all dressed in green, parading around a decked out Queen, are the eco nut and animal freaks, dancing like squirrels and fairies and faun's trying but failing to put a festive mood on the gathering.

A multitude of diversity, just as they claim...but lacking in central purpose...they have no aim and no shame.

Damn, I shudda rhymed the whole thing....

Amicus...

 

[past_perfect]

A multitude of diversity, just as they claim...but lacking in central purpose...they have no aim and no shame.


Amicus...

Purpose/Aim: Democratic socialism is an international movement for freedom, social justice, and solidarity. Its goal is to achieve a peaceful world where these basic values can be enhanced and where each individual can live a meaningful life with the full development of his or her personality and talents, and with the guarantee of human and civil rights in a democratic framework of society. (Declaration of Principles, 18th Congress of Socialist International in Stockholm, 1989).

Purpose/Aim: "The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that, by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create, for each of us, the means to realise our true potential, and, for all of us, a community in which power, wealth, and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few." (UK Labour Party 1995).

 

[amicus]

Thank you for taking the time to research, copy and paste those two statements.

Reading through each, twice, I see nothing that inspires anyone to achieve individual excellence, only bromides of cooperation and the same undefined hopes of past generations.

"...freedom, social justice, and solidarity. "

Freedom, undefined, as is social justice, vague concepts that lose value with the lack of definition, especially as concerned with individual human beings.

The UK Labour party statement is even less defined on the order of, 'now I lay me down to sleep', a soft squishy opaque utopian dream.

Since history has shown that socialism is the least likely to tolerate diversity, i.e. Soviet Russia, Communist China and several examples of Asian socialism, I fail to see why one would cast one's fate to such a belief.

This so called, 'democratic socialism' or modern Earopean nations seems unable to compete in the modern world, exists with heavy taxation, bloated welfare foles, high unemployment and increasing violence from imported labor from the middle east.

I would not be so enthusiatic or complimentary as these nations decline into abject failare and nanny state socialism.

Amicus...

 

[past_perfect]

Thank you for taking the time to research, copy and paste those two statements.

Reading through each, twice, I see nothing that inspires anyone to achieve individual excellence, only bromides of cooperation and the same undefined hopes of past generations.

Freedom, undefined, as is social justice, vague concepts that lose value with the lack of definition, especially as concerned with individual human beings.

The UK Labour party statement is even less defined on the order of, 'now I lay me down to sleep', a soft squishy opaque utopian dream.

Since history has shown that socialism is the least likely to tolerate diversity, i.e. Soviet Russia, Communist China and several examples of Asian socialism, I fail to see why one would cast one's fate to such a belief.

This so called, 'democratic socialism' or modern Earopean nations seems unable to compete in the modern world, exists with heavy taxation, bloated welfare foles, high unemployment and increasing violence from imported labor from the middle east.

I would not be so enthusiatic or complimentary as these nations decline into abject failare and nanny state socialism.

Amicus...

You were saying there were no aims or purposes. These are aims and purposes. Claiming that they haven't been achieved as yet, doesn't say that they aren't worthwhile pursuing.

I personally disagree with your assessment of Europe as it is and have the benefit of first-hand experience rather than rather abstruse views. I didn't want to inspire you or convince you of anything, I just refuted your statement.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Usual Suspects will profit from examining why 90% of the old socialist states no longer exist. Even Russia abandoned socialism. Read ANIMAL FARM.

Socialism in practice is the Old South plantation system. The elites live in the Big House and you live in a cabin. The elites take the hams and the bacon and the loins, and you get the chitterlings and the feet.

 

[jeninflorida]

Or, if we can have "Dot Com Ver. 2.0"

DP - do you see the irony? It was the conservatives, after all, who ran up a record deficit while they were in power. How else do we pay down the Bush deficit, if not with taxes?

You can't blame Obama for deficit spending while letting Bush off the hook. Oh, excuse me, you can, because you do it all the time.

 

[jeninflorida]

But we have Hillary Clinton and she will make socialism work! Call it Russia Ver. 2.0…

And if you vote for her she will give you Bill for a night! God, that would be one fun party

The Usual Suspects will profit from examining why 90% of the old socialist states no longer exist. Even Russia abandoned socialism. Read ANIMAL FARM.

Socialism in practice is the Old South plantation system. The elites live in the Big House and you live in a cabin. The elites take the hams and the bacon and the loins, and you get the chitterlings and the feet.

 

[Guest]

Dear ami -

How quickly you forget!

You're the one who keeps promoting the virtues of a simpler time, where financial things were not so bad, where men were men and women knew their place. Right?

Well, here ya go. Songs from that era, m'dear. The second, a bit of a joke, but the first? That's good old American folk song history, and it was very popular during that simpler time over which you pine.

 

[past_perfect]

The Usual Suspects will profit from examining why 90% of the old socialist states no longer exist. Even Russia abandoned socialism. Read ANIMAL FARM.

Socialism in practice is the Old South plantation system. The elites live in the Big House and you live in a cabin. The elites take the hams and the bacon and the loins, and you get the chitterlings and the feet.

I think a lot of people have a rather loose and haphazard use of the term socialism, which makes any meaningful discussion useless. I hope you don't seriously associate the UK Labour Party or the Social Democrats in Germany with those regimes.

A good deal of Europe is actually governed by parties like those. And, contrary to amicus' unique perspective on things, we are doing fairly well - strongest currency, no. 1 in GDP, the unemployment rate was dropping from an average of 8.7 to 6.2 over the last eight years, until a certain financial crisis abroad fucked all that up - no reproach there though, we bought into this with our eyes open and brains suspended as everyone else. The forecasts for the next two years are rather dire though.

 

[Guest]

Jen -

You are aware that the election is over, right?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Egg Plant Pie.

The current hysteria for socialism reminds me of a tale my mother told about egg plant pie.

She lived with her grandmother, and on one occasion the old lady brought a pan of egg plants into the kitchen from the garden, and my mom thought they were sooo pretty she just had to have a pie made of egg plants. So she pestered the old lady and annoyed her and kept on till the grandmother relented and made the goddamned pie. It tasted like shit.

This is where we are, SARAH and the Usual Suspects wont relent until they have a mouthfull of socialism shit.

 

[manyeyedhydra]

Purpose/Aim: "The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that, by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create, for each of us, the means to realise our true potential, and, for all of us, a community in which power, wealth, and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few." (UK Labour Party 1995).

Bad example.

The current British Labour party has brought in a raft of proposals that take away civil liberties and pretty much sold the country down the river.

It's going to take decades to undo the damage they've done to Britain.

(admittedly this is because they somehow managed to combine the worst aspects of both socialism and capitalism)

 

[past_perfect]

Bad example.

The current British Labour party has brought in a raft of proposals that take away civil liberties and pretty much sold the country down the river.

It's going to take decades to undo the damage they've done to Britain.

(admittedly this is because they somehow managed to combine the worst aspects of both socialism and capitalism)

I know, it was just to illustrate aims and goals - I lived in the UK during the nineties. The German Social Democrats had quite a few not overly bright moments as well - especially when doing the egg-dance with opening up to the oh so successful free market ideas from abroad.

 

[gauchecritic]

Vague. MiAmico hit it. The article is vague, very much in the vogue of his own anti-European maundering.

I had to read all the article before I came across a supposed fact.

The catch is that more government intrusion in the economy will almost surely limit growth (as it has in Europe, where a big welfare state has caused chronic high unemployment)

Or rather a concatenation of two supposed facts without a shred of evidence in support because as it happens the largest single employer in Europe is... the NHS.

Then of course there's the abdication of reason and arguement with an almost immediate breach of Godwin's law.

As per usual the gang of four (three? five?) jump in their time-machine to espouse the anti-communism line of the fifties "If communism is so great why don't you..." but then they remember the so-called communism of a warped personnel engaged in a life long power struggle for its own sake have all disappeared. Fortunately for them this then becomes an excellent vehicle of denial of principle. (conveniently forgetting that their own free market has most recently bitten exactly the same dust but with more extensive fallout)

Once more (never for the last time obviously) Communism is a movement rather than an answer. It is a struggle towards never an end in itself.

While ever there is class there will be inequality. This inequality is that which the freedom loving right cannot conceive. Indeed the principle of the free market and consumerism demand and require a class system and will always espouse 'individualism' because it is the simplest method of ensuring a class system.

This ties in completely and infectively with those that perceive difference as a method of accounting, consciously and wilfully distorting Darwin's most famous strapline; survival of the fittest.

If, once again, you don't understand Jimmy, just ask.

 

[off2bed]

Socialism in practice is the Old South plantation system. The elites live in the Big House and you live in a cabin. The elites take the hams and the bacon and the loins, and you get the chitterlings and the feet.

Very good analogy.

Didn't Newsweek, back in the '70s, proclaim there was an ice age coming?

But if they happen to have got this correct, and the US is now socialist, can you lefties please stop bashing us when we call you socialists?