zipman
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Posts
- 38,552
Brilliant as always Miles.
You're a real intellectual force on these boards.
Always have been.
Barack Obama is lying about not being friends with Bill Ayers...
- Thread starter Cap’n AMatrixca
- Start date
Brilliant as always Miles.
You're a real intellectual force on these boards.
Always have been.
Ishmael
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2001
- Posts
- 84,005
If I were you I'd spend more time being concerned about the survival of Israel.
Ole Joe spoke with some authority about Obama being tested within the first 6 months of his presidency, assuming he's elected. I've spent some considerable time thinking as to what that test might be.
Hypothesis; Obama is elected. Israel launches a pre-emptive attack against Iran. Iran, not being able to retaliate directly against Israel, attacks US interests in and around Iraq. What would Obama do that would cause wide spread loss of support?
Prosecute a war against Iran with vigor?
Throw Iraq and Isreal under the bus? (He certainly has a track record of doing that to people and policies he finds inconvenient.)
Or some other action?
Quite frankly that's the only foriegn policy disaster I can think of that's tied inextricably to an Obama election. Certainly there are other events that might occur, but none with such an obvious and undeniable cause and effect association.
Ishmael
zipman
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Posts
- 38,552
My primary concern is and always will be this country.
Just because ole Joe said he thinks Obama will be tested doesn't necessarily make it true unless you believe he can see the future.
As for your hypothesis, I think he would do whatever the current capabilities and readiness of our military allows him to do. I have no fears that he will throw anyone under the bus.
M
miles
Guest
I can see it now....Israel responds to an attack from Iran, and Obama calls for restraint from both sides.
Ishmael
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2001
- Posts
- 84,005
Well Zip, it is not without coincidence that the two campaigns recieved their initial national security briefing just a few days before Joe shot off his mouth. It is no secret that Bush has worked diligently to withhold Israel from a pre-emptive attack. Youi'd have to be blind not to see the distinct possibility of an Obama election being the straw that broke the camels back.
Your concern for this country is laudible, but we aren't a self-supporting island nation surrounded by walls 200 miles high. It is a fact, one might even call it a regretable fact, that in many cases the well being of this country is tied to the continued well being of our allies. Sometimes even to nations that can't truly be called allies.
While it can be debated, and has been ad infinitum, whether we should have ever gone into Iraq, that debate is all based on second guessing. The fact of the matter is that we did, and there you go. There should be no debate as to the consequnces of throwing Iraq to the wolves, and indirectly Israel as well. Those actions will have severe, and negative, reprocussions for the US. Actions that will go much further to embolden those states that are actively working against our interests than will bring any peace of mind, or economic benefit, to this country.
It continually amazes me that there is a large segment of our population that believe that the leaders of these nations are rational, and that their populations all want the same thing we do. The facts are that they aren't necessarily rational and the populations don't necessarily want the same thing.
Ishmael
zipman
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Posts
- 38,552
I guess your post depends on what constitutes "throwing Iraq to the wolves" and whether or not the fate of Israel is linked to the fate of Iraq, which is certainly debateable.
I don't see Iran attacking Israel at all in the near future.
As for your last paragraph, you have argued that very point on these boards, although not for quite a while. I remember quite a few times that you and A_J said we don't have to do anything to Iran since their people are going to revolt and throw out their leadership and that the Iranian people are rational and do want the same thing as we do.
While I'm no Cheyenne, being and oldie here does have it's advantages.
Lancecastor
Lit's Most Beloved Poster
- Joined
- May 14, 2002
- Posts
- 54,670
MeeMie
No Spam Here
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2005
- Posts
- 7,328
A Link for Zipman
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm
Is Barack Obama a Muslim wolf in Christian wool?
By Reuven Koret March 27, 2008
The glib handling of criticism of his relationship with the anti-American ("God Damn America!") and anti-Israel ("a dirty word for Negroes") Reverend James Wright may have bought him a little time. But the legacy of dissimulation about his long-concealed identity is about to come crashing down around the ears of Barack Hussein Obama, courtesy of the assembled testimony of his family, friends, classmates and teachers.
Obama's official campaign site has a page titled "Obama has never been a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." The page states, "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ."
Yet the accumulated research from primary sources who knew Obama from his childhood indicate that he was a devout Muslim, the son of a devout Muslim, the step-son of a devout Muslim and the grandson and namesake ("Hussein") of a devout Muslim. He was registered in school as a Muslim and demonstrated his ability to chant praise to Allah in impressive Arab-accented tones even as an adult. Just as he has not disavowed his "uncle" Jeremiah, neither has he disavowed his Muslim faith that he was born into, raised with, celebrated and never abandoned. He just covered it over with a thin veneer of his own self-styled "Christianity."
Although as an adult he would register as a Christian, and occasionally attend a Christian Church (but apparently not often enough to listen to the preaching of his pastor, or so he would claim) this was a necessary step for a man who from earliest boyhood has nurtured the precocious ambition to be President of the United States.
He was entered into the Roman Catholic, Franciscus Assisi Primary School, in Jakarta, Indonesia, on January 1, 1968, registered under the name Barry Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen whose religion was listed as Islam. Catholic schools accept non-Catholics worldwide. Non-Catholic students are typically excused from Catholic religious instruction and ceremony, but are expected to study their own faith.
In kindergarten, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled 'I Want to Become President.'"Iis Darmawan, 63, Senator Obama's kindergarten teacher, remembers him as an exceptionally tall and curly haired child who quickly picked up the local language and had sharp math skills. He wrote an essay titled, 'I Want To Become President,' the teacher said." [AP, 1/25/07]
Three years later, in 1971, Obama enrolled in the Besuki Primary School, a government school, as Barry Soetoro, Muslim. In third grade, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled 'I Want To Be a President.' His third grade teacher: Fermina Katarina Sinaga "asked her class to write an essay titled 'My dream: What I want to be in the future.' Senator Obama wrote 'I want to be a President,' she said." [The Los Angeles Times, 3/15/07]
All Indonesian students are required to study religion at school and a young Barry Soetoro, being a Muslim, would have been required to study Islam daily in school.
He would have been taught to read and write Arabic, to recite his prayers properly, to read and recite from the Quran and to study the laws of Islam.
In his autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," Obama mentions studying the Koran and describes the public school as "a Muslim school."
"In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies."
According to Tine Hahiyary, one of Obama's teachers and the principal from 1971 through 1989, Barry actively took part in the Islamic religious lessons during his time at the school. "I remembered that he had studied "mengaji" (recitation of the Quran)" Tine said.
The author of the Laotze blog writes from Jakarta: "The actual usage of the word 'mengaji' in Indonesian and Malaysian societies means the study of learning to recite the Quran in the Arabic language rather than the native tongue. "Mengagi" is a word and a term that is accorded the highest value and status in the mindset of fundamentalist societies here in Southeast Asia. To put it quite simply, 'mengaji classes' are not something that a non practicing or so-called moderate Muslim family would ever send their child to. To put this in a Christian context, this is something above and beyond simply enrolling your child in Sunday school classes."
"The fact that Obama had attended mengaji classes is well known in Indonesia and has left many there wondering just when Obama is going to come out of the closet."
"As I've stated before, the evidence seems to quite clearly show that both Ann Dunham and her husband Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo were in fact devout Muslims themselves and they raised their son as such."
The Obama Campaign told the LA Times he wasn't a "practicing Muslim." (3/14/2007). But his official website says: "Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian" (11/12/2007)
That's not what his friends and classmates have said. Classmate Rony Amiris describes young Barry as enjoying playing football and marbles and of being a very devout Muslim. Amir said, "Barry was previously quite religious in Islam. We previously often asked him to the prayer room close to the house. If he was wearing a sarong, he looked funny," said Rony.
Amiris, now the manager of Bank Mandiri, Jakarta, recently said, "Barry was previously quite religious in Islam. His birth father, Barack Hussein Obama was a Muslim economist from Kenya. Before marrying Ann Dunham, Hussein Obama was married to a woman from Kenya who had seven children. All the relatives of Barry's father were very devout Muslims"
Emirsyah Satar, CEO of Garuda Indonesia, was quoted as saying, "He (Obama) was often in the prayer room wearing a 'sarong', at that time."
"He was quite religious in Islam but only after marrying Michelle, he changed his religion."
So Obama, according to his classmates and friends was a Muslim until the confluence of love and ambition caused him to adopt the cloak of Christianity: to marry Michelle and to run for President of the United States.
In "Dreams," Obama sheds light on his formative years and the political views of his mother, an anthropologist and Islamophile who hated America and subsequently "went native." (It was her mother -- Barry's "other" grandmother who cared for him in his druggie teenage years -- that he would describe as a "typical white person" who was, he said scoldingly, fearful of black men and prone to making stereotypical racial remarks.)
Obama Senior also had three sons by another woman who are all Muslim. Although Obama claims Senior was an atheist, Senior was buried as a Muslim.
Barack Obama's brother Roy opted for Islam over Christianity, as the Senator recounted in his book when describing his 1992 wedding. "The person who made me proudest of all," Obama wrote, "was Roy. Actually, now we call him Abongo, his Luo name, for two years ago he decided to reassert his African heritage. He converted to Islam, and has sworn off pork and tobacco and alcohol."Abongo "argues that the black man must "liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture." He urged his younger brother to embrace his African heritage.
In Kenya while he was a Senator, Obama stumped for his cousin, opposition leader Raila Odinga, the son of Senior's sister, a direct first cousin and nephew of Obama's father.
On August 29, 2007, Raila Odinga and Shiekh Abdullah Abdi, chairman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum of Kenya signed a Memorandum of Understanding in which it pledges the support of Kenyan Moslems for Raila's election. In return, as President of Kenya, Raila agrees ... within 6 months re-write the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Shariah as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared regions [and] within one year to facilitate the establishment of a Shariah court in every Kenyan divisional headquarters -- everywhere in Kenya, not just in "Muslim declared regions" -- and to popularize Islam, the only true religion ... by ordering every primary school in Kenya in the regions to conduct daily Madrassa classes.
In an interview with the New York Times, published on April 30th, Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's younger half sister, told the Times, "My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim."
Obama describes his new found "Christian" faith as: (1) Suspicious of dogma (2) Without any monopoly on the truth (3) Nontransferable to others (4) Infused with a big healthy dose of doubt, and (5) Indulgent of and compatible with all other religions.
On February 27th, speaking to Kristof of The New York Times, Barack Hussein Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset."
In an interview with Nicholas Kristof, published in The New York Times, Obama recited the Muslim call to prayer, the Adhan, "with a first-class [Arabic] accent."
The opening lines of the Adhan (Azaan) is the Shahada:
"Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet...."
According to Islamic scholars, reciting the Shahada, the Muslim declaration of faith, makes one a Muslim. This simple yet profound statement expresses a Muslim's complete acceptance of, and total commitment to, the message of Islam. Obama chanted it with pride and finesse.
An American Expat in Southeast Asia blog, written by an American who has lived in Indonesia for 20 years and has met with both the Taliban and al-Qaeda, contains the following:
"Barack Hussein Obama might have convinced some Americans that he is no longer a Muslim, but so far he has not convinced many in the world's most populous Muslim country who still see him as a Muslim and a crusader for Islam and world peace."
"Barack Hussein Obama's race, his staunch opposition to the war in Iraq, his sympathy to Islam and Muslims worldwide and his Muslim heritage receive the Indonesian media coverage. There is no mention of his apostasy."
"A good example of how some of the Indonesian media is reporting on Obama's religion can be found in the following."
"What I found interesting in the article was the use of the word 'mengaku' when refering to Obama's conversion from Islam to Christianity. The word 'mengaku' in Indonesian means "claimed" and as such leaves the insinuation to the native Indonesian reader being that Obama might actually still be a Muslim.
But this is how Indonesians see Obama, they don't see him as an apostate at all, they see him as a crusader for the cause of Islam."
Obama wants it both ways, has always wanted it both ways. Black and white, Indonesian and American, Muslim and Christian. He loves playing one off the other, using one to hide the other even as the traces of the truth may be assembled to reveal the whole cloth of deception and self-promotion he has been weaving so skillfully since his childhood. No wonder he is a man of change. He IS a changeling, a veritable chameleon, adapting and amending his life story to fit the circumstances.
The charm may have worked once. It still works on some. It won't work forever in the age of the Internet. The fog of ambiguity and dissimulation is dissipated by the harsh, unforgiving and scrutiny of the blogosphere and its unlimited access to historical facts and time-stamped testimony.
Many have been puzzled why Obama could claim not to be familiar with Wright's rants. It turns out the Trinity Church, like many African-American churches, happily accepts believing Muslims within its congregation. And evidently many Muslims have no problems surrounding themselves with an anti-American, anti-Israel preacher who week in and week out wins the amens of his adoring congregation.
On Feb 15/08, Usama K. Dakdok, President of The Straight Way of Grace Ministry called Obama's Church and reported the following conversation: " I then asked the person who answered what I needed to do to join. She told me that I needed to attend two Sunday School classes in a row and then I would walk the aisle. I replied, "That sounds easy. One last question please. If I am Muslim and I believe in the Prophet Mohammed, peace be unto him and I also believe in Jesus, peace be unto him, do I have to give up my Islamic faith to be a member in your church? She answered: "No, we have many Muslim members in our church."
Indeed.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_R-l1iejog...tUIG0w/s1600-h/Michael+Ramirez+--+ObaMarx.gif
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12745.htm
Is Barack Obama a Muslim wolf in Christian wool?
By Reuven Koret March 27, 2008
The glib handling of criticism of his relationship with the anti-American ("God Damn America!") and anti-Israel ("a dirty word for Negroes") Reverend James Wright may have bought him a little time. But the legacy of dissimulation about his long-concealed identity is about to come crashing down around the ears of Barack Hussein Obama, courtesy of the assembled testimony of his family, friends, classmates and teachers.
Obama's official campaign site has a page titled "Obama has never been a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." The page states, "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ."
Yet the accumulated research from primary sources who knew Obama from his childhood indicate that he was a devout Muslim, the son of a devout Muslim, the step-son of a devout Muslim and the grandson and namesake ("Hussein") of a devout Muslim. He was registered in school as a Muslim and demonstrated his ability to chant praise to Allah in impressive Arab-accented tones even as an adult. Just as he has not disavowed his "uncle" Jeremiah, neither has he disavowed his Muslim faith that he was born into, raised with, celebrated and never abandoned. He just covered it over with a thin veneer of his own self-styled "Christianity."
Although as an adult he would register as a Christian, and occasionally attend a Christian Church (but apparently not often enough to listen to the preaching of his pastor, or so he would claim) this was a necessary step for a man who from earliest boyhood has nurtured the precocious ambition to be President of the United States.
He was entered into the Roman Catholic, Franciscus Assisi Primary School, in Jakarta, Indonesia, on January 1, 1968, registered under the name Barry Soetoro, an Indonesian citizen whose religion was listed as Islam. Catholic schools accept non-Catholics worldwide. Non-Catholic students are typically excused from Catholic religious instruction and ceremony, but are expected to study their own faith.
In kindergarten, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled 'I Want to Become President.'"Iis Darmawan, 63, Senator Obama's kindergarten teacher, remembers him as an exceptionally tall and curly haired child who quickly picked up the local language and had sharp math skills. He wrote an essay titled, 'I Want To Become President,' the teacher said." [AP, 1/25/07]
Three years later, in 1971, Obama enrolled in the Besuki Primary School, a government school, as Barry Soetoro, Muslim. In third grade, Senator Obama wrote an essay titled 'I Want To Be a President.' His third grade teacher: Fermina Katarina Sinaga "asked her class to write an essay titled 'My dream: What I want to be in the future.' Senator Obama wrote 'I want to be a President,' she said." [The Los Angeles Times, 3/15/07]
All Indonesian students are required to study religion at school and a young Barry Soetoro, being a Muslim, would have been required to study Islam daily in school.
He would have been taught to read and write Arabic, to recite his prayers properly, to read and recite from the Quran and to study the laws of Islam.
In his autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," Obama mentions studying the Koran and describes the public school as "a Muslim school."
"In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies."
According to Tine Hahiyary, one of Obama's teachers and the principal from 1971 through 1989, Barry actively took part in the Islamic religious lessons during his time at the school. "I remembered that he had studied "mengaji" (recitation of the Quran)" Tine said.
The author of the Laotze blog writes from Jakarta: "The actual usage of the word 'mengaji' in Indonesian and Malaysian societies means the study of learning to recite the Quran in the Arabic language rather than the native tongue. "Mengagi" is a word and a term that is accorded the highest value and status in the mindset of fundamentalist societies here in Southeast Asia. To put it quite simply, 'mengaji classes' are not something that a non practicing or so-called moderate Muslim family would ever send their child to. To put this in a Christian context, this is something above and beyond simply enrolling your child in Sunday school classes."
"The fact that Obama had attended mengaji classes is well known in Indonesia and has left many there wondering just when Obama is going to come out of the closet."
"As I've stated before, the evidence seems to quite clearly show that both Ann Dunham and her husband Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo were in fact devout Muslims themselves and they raised their son as such."
The Obama Campaign told the LA Times he wasn't a "practicing Muslim." (3/14/2007). But his official website says: "Obama Has Never Been A Muslim, And Is a Committed Christian" (11/12/2007)
That's not what his friends and classmates have said. Classmate Rony Amiris describes young Barry as enjoying playing football and marbles and of being a very devout Muslim. Amir said, "Barry was previously quite religious in Islam. We previously often asked him to the prayer room close to the house. If he was wearing a sarong, he looked funny," said Rony.
Amiris, now the manager of Bank Mandiri, Jakarta, recently said, "Barry was previously quite religious in Islam. His birth father, Barack Hussein Obama was a Muslim economist from Kenya. Before marrying Ann Dunham, Hussein Obama was married to a woman from Kenya who had seven children. All the relatives of Barry's father were very devout Muslims"
Emirsyah Satar, CEO of Garuda Indonesia, was quoted as saying, "He (Obama) was often in the prayer room wearing a 'sarong', at that time."
"He was quite religious in Islam but only after marrying Michelle, he changed his religion."
So Obama, according to his classmates and friends was a Muslim until the confluence of love and ambition caused him to adopt the cloak of Christianity: to marry Michelle and to run for President of the United States.
In "Dreams," Obama sheds light on his formative years and the political views of his mother, an anthropologist and Islamophile who hated America and subsequently "went native." (It was her mother -- Barry's "other" grandmother who cared for him in his druggie teenage years -- that he would describe as a "typical white person" who was, he said scoldingly, fearful of black men and prone to making stereotypical racial remarks.)
Obama Senior also had three sons by another woman who are all Muslim. Although Obama claims Senior was an atheist, Senior was buried as a Muslim.
Barack Obama's brother Roy opted for Islam over Christianity, as the Senator recounted in his book when describing his 1992 wedding. "The person who made me proudest of all," Obama wrote, "was Roy. Actually, now we call him Abongo, his Luo name, for two years ago he decided to reassert his African heritage. He converted to Islam, and has sworn off pork and tobacco and alcohol."Abongo "argues that the black man must "liberate himself from the poisoning influences of European culture." He urged his younger brother to embrace his African heritage.
In Kenya while he was a Senator, Obama stumped for his cousin, opposition leader Raila Odinga, the son of Senior's sister, a direct first cousin and nephew of Obama's father.
On August 29, 2007, Raila Odinga and Shiekh Abdullah Abdi, chairman of the National Muslim Leaders Forum of Kenya signed a Memorandum of Understanding in which it pledges the support of Kenyan Moslems for Raila's election. In return, as President of Kenya, Raila agrees ... within 6 months re-write the Constitution of Kenya to recognize Shariah as the only true law sanctioned by the Holy Quran for Muslim declared regions [and] within one year to facilitate the establishment of a Shariah court in every Kenyan divisional headquarters -- everywhere in Kenya, not just in "Muslim declared regions" -- and to popularize Islam, the only true religion ... by ordering every primary school in Kenya in the regions to conduct daily Madrassa classes.
In an interview with the New York Times, published on April 30th, Maya Soetoro-Ng, Obama's younger half sister, told the Times, "My whole family was Muslim, and most of the people I knew were Muslim."
Obama describes his new found "Christian" faith as: (1) Suspicious of dogma (2) Without any monopoly on the truth (3) Nontransferable to others (4) Infused with a big healthy dose of doubt, and (5) Indulgent of and compatible with all other religions.
On February 27th, speaking to Kristof of The New York Times, Barack Hussein Obama said the Muslim call to prayer is "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset."
In an interview with Nicholas Kristof, published in The New York Times, Obama recited the Muslim call to prayer, the Adhan, "with a first-class [Arabic] accent."
The opening lines of the Adhan (Azaan) is the Shahada:
"Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet...."
According to Islamic scholars, reciting the Shahada, the Muslim declaration of faith, makes one a Muslim. This simple yet profound statement expresses a Muslim's complete acceptance of, and total commitment to, the message of Islam. Obama chanted it with pride and finesse.
An American Expat in Southeast Asia blog, written by an American who has lived in Indonesia for 20 years and has met with both the Taliban and al-Qaeda, contains the following:
"Barack Hussein Obama might have convinced some Americans that he is no longer a Muslim, but so far he has not convinced many in the world's most populous Muslim country who still see him as a Muslim and a crusader for Islam and world peace."
"Barack Hussein Obama's race, his staunch opposition to the war in Iraq, his sympathy to Islam and Muslims worldwide and his Muslim heritage receive the Indonesian media coverage. There is no mention of his apostasy."
"A good example of how some of the Indonesian media is reporting on Obama's religion can be found in the following."
"What I found interesting in the article was the use of the word 'mengaku' when refering to Obama's conversion from Islam to Christianity. The word 'mengaku' in Indonesian means "claimed" and as such leaves the insinuation to the native Indonesian reader being that Obama might actually still be a Muslim.
But this is how Indonesians see Obama, they don't see him as an apostate at all, they see him as a crusader for the cause of Islam."
Obama wants it both ways, has always wanted it both ways. Black and white, Indonesian and American, Muslim and Christian. He loves playing one off the other, using one to hide the other even as the traces of the truth may be assembled to reveal the whole cloth of deception and self-promotion he has been weaving so skillfully since his childhood. No wonder he is a man of change. He IS a changeling, a veritable chameleon, adapting and amending his life story to fit the circumstances.
The charm may have worked once. It still works on some. It won't work forever in the age of the Internet. The fog of ambiguity and dissimulation is dissipated by the harsh, unforgiving and scrutiny of the blogosphere and its unlimited access to historical facts and time-stamped testimony.
Many have been puzzled why Obama could claim not to be familiar with Wright's rants. It turns out the Trinity Church, like many African-American churches, happily accepts believing Muslims within its congregation. And evidently many Muslims have no problems surrounding themselves with an anti-American, anti-Israel preacher who week in and week out wins the amens of his adoring congregation.
On Feb 15/08, Usama K. Dakdok, President of The Straight Way of Grace Ministry called Obama's Church and reported the following conversation: " I then asked the person who answered what I needed to do to join. She told me that I needed to attend two Sunday School classes in a row and then I would walk the aisle. I replied, "That sounds easy. One last question please. If I am Muslim and I believe in the Prophet Mohammed, peace be unto him and I also believe in Jesus, peace be unto him, do I have to give up my Islamic faith to be a member in your church? She answered: "No, we have many Muslim members in our church."
Indeed.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_R-l1iejog...tUIG0w/s1600-h/Michael+Ramirez+--+ObaMarx.gif
hogjack
Permanent Pause
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Posts
- 35,617
Brilliant as always Miles.
You're a real intellectual force on these boards.
Always have been.
Miles is the intellectual equivalent of yeast.
On the plus side Miles is usually brief. The part we miss is him staring down at his shoes while simultaneously mumbling under his breath. That's gotta be priceless to see in person.
The_Trouvere
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2008
- Posts
- 11,189
Brilliant as always Miles.
You're a real intellectual force on these boards.
Always have been.
The competition for the title of "Most Impressive Republican Intellectual on Main Literotica Forums > General Board" is fairly mild.
B_Gus_Richards
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2006
- Posts
- 848
Good. Let Israel fight its own battles. We've got enough problems of our own that Obama and co. will need to fix.
Israel always relying on the U.S. is kind of like an unemployed guy that surfs the Net all day because he can rely on his wife to be the primary breadwinner. It's really that sad and pathetic.
The_Trouvere
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2008
- Posts
- 11,189
MeeMie, stop copying and pasting Republican hot air and do some of your own thinking.
MeeMie
No Spam Here
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2005
- Posts
- 7,328
It's IS about Associations and Influences
A Candidate's Associates and Influences ARE reflective of the Candidate personally. Many would prefer to ignore, or pretend that it doesn't matter, but the fact of the matter is that one's associates, especially when so many are likeminded, do present a pretty clear picture of the candidate's ideals, beliefs and goals. In Obama's case, his associates say more about his truths than his own words.
Frank Marshall Davis (whose identity Obama tried to hide when referencing him in his book). Davis had some considerable influence on the young Obama when they both lived in Hawaii. Obama himself says as much in his book, referring to his early mentor merely as "Frank." Davis has also been identified as a member of the Communist Party. When the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee in 1956 asked him to affirm or deny his membership in the party, he refused to respond, citing the Fifth Amendment. Davis began his communist career in Chicago and was a friend and associate of the singer Paul Robeson and the longshore union official Harry Bridges, both secret Communist Party members
Saul Alinsky was a radical socialist organizer. His main book was "Rules for Radicals." His methodology was you go in as a community organizer. Alinsky had change as his mantra. And by it, he meant radical socialist redistribution of income from the haves to the have-nots. That was the primary purpose. A very condescending view that he has of the middle class as people who are lost, who -- he says that they turn bitter, because they cling to certain fixed points that are elusory, but very real to them. Much like those Obama sees as clinging to bibles and guns.
Reverend Wright`s black liberation theology is a fairly radical left-wing approach to Christianity. It`s what some people would call a political religion, in a sort of black power ideology that is pretty closely tinged with Marxism. Barrack Obama’s pastor not only spews anti-American rhetoric from the pulpit but favors shaking down U.S. taxpayers for “reparations” for slavery. When questioned about reparation,Obama's sound bite that`s always played is, "I`m against reparations." The real story is, his full statement is, "because it doesn`t go far enough."
William Ayers, the Weather Underground bomber. And Obama began his career, his coming out party in 1995, and Ayers and Bernadine Dorns home. For some 20 years, Obama has been working with Ayers, certainly since 1995, on a series of foundations: the Annenberg Foundation and the Woods Foundation. The boards of directors together, or in the Annenberg Foundation, Ayers created it, and Obama was on it. And together they spent the money of these foundations to implement their radical socialist agenda.
Alice Palmer announced at the Ayers/Dohrn residence that she was stepping down to make a run for Congress and introduced Obama as her chosen successor. Alice Palmer was an official of a notorious Communist Soviet front group (so identified by the FBI), wrote an article for the People's Weekly World, a house organ for the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). In that dispatch, Palmer favorably recounted her experiences attending the 27th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
Former Obama advisor, Robert Malley, suddenly cut his advisory ties to the Obama campaign after he was forced to acknowledge that he had talked with Hamas, which is on the State Department list of terrorist organizations. You also may recall that Hamas advisor Ahmed Yousef was quoted as saying, "We like Mr. Obama. We hope he will win the election." Malley is Program Director for the International Crisis Group, lavishly funded by billionaire George Soros, whose number one aim in life is to steer America and the world sharply leftward. He reportedly would like to see a national convention by 2020 to write a new constitution for the United States. Robert Malley's father, Simon Malley, was an important figure in the Egyptian Communist Party, was pro-Soviet, passionately anti-Israel, and anti-West. He was booted out of Egypt and later out of France for awhile, to be welcomed back later when the more leftwing government of the socialist Francois Mitterrand took over in Paris. Martin Peretz, in the New Republic, described Malley as "a rabid hater of Israel," and described several of Malley's articles in the New York Review of Books as "deceitful." Yet, he was an officially annointed Obama advisor. Is anyone paying attention?
Herbert Romerstein, whose professional background in security and intelligence matters knows where the bodies are buried, released two documents that are chockablock with names, dates, places — page after page detailing the "Obama connection" to communists, socialists, and violent radicals. One deals with Obama's associates in Hawaii, the other is focused on his background in Chicago.
Obama campaign’s official blogger, Sam Graham-Felsen, has spent time in France participating in labor riots, has written for a socialist magazine, hung a communist flag in his home, and was a fan of Marx while at Harvard.
Not to mention this group listed on his own website:
Marxists/Socialists/Communists for Obama
To what extent do these people influence him — the communist Frank Davis, the neo-communists Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, the anti-Semitic pro-Arab terrorist groups that he met with in Chicago, the anti-American/racist sermons of Rev. Wright. To what extent do they influence his thinking, and will he repudiate those people?"
Just as American voters seemed to be willing to anoint as their messianic savior a junior senator just one half-step to the political right of Dennis Kucinich, some light is shown on Obama's REAL change for the United States of America is not what our country is founded on.
A Candidate's Associates and Influences ARE reflective of the Candidate personally. Many would prefer to ignore, or pretend that it doesn't matter, but the fact of the matter is that one's associates, especially when so many are likeminded, do present a pretty clear picture of the candidate's ideals, beliefs and goals. In Obama's case, his associates say more about his truths than his own words.
Frank Marshall Davis (whose identity Obama tried to hide when referencing him in his book). Davis had some considerable influence on the young Obama when they both lived in Hawaii. Obama himself says as much in his book, referring to his early mentor merely as "Frank." Davis has also been identified as a member of the Communist Party. When the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee in 1956 asked him to affirm or deny his membership in the party, he refused to respond, citing the Fifth Amendment. Davis began his communist career in Chicago and was a friend and associate of the singer Paul Robeson and the longshore union official Harry Bridges, both secret Communist Party members
Saul Alinsky was a radical socialist organizer. His main book was "Rules for Radicals." His methodology was you go in as a community organizer. Alinsky had change as his mantra. And by it, he meant radical socialist redistribution of income from the haves to the have-nots. That was the primary purpose. A very condescending view that he has of the middle class as people who are lost, who -- he says that they turn bitter, because they cling to certain fixed points that are elusory, but very real to them. Much like those Obama sees as clinging to bibles and guns.
Reverend Wright`s black liberation theology is a fairly radical left-wing approach to Christianity. It`s what some people would call a political religion, in a sort of black power ideology that is pretty closely tinged with Marxism. Barrack Obama’s pastor not only spews anti-American rhetoric from the pulpit but favors shaking down U.S. taxpayers for “reparations” for slavery. When questioned about reparation,Obama's sound bite that`s always played is, "I`m against reparations." The real story is, his full statement is, "because it doesn`t go far enough."
William Ayers, the Weather Underground bomber. And Obama began his career, his coming out party in 1995, and Ayers and Bernadine Dorns home. For some 20 years, Obama has been working with Ayers, certainly since 1995, on a series of foundations: the Annenberg Foundation and the Woods Foundation. The boards of directors together, or in the Annenberg Foundation, Ayers created it, and Obama was on it. And together they spent the money of these foundations to implement their radical socialist agenda.
Alice Palmer announced at the Ayers/Dohrn residence that she was stepping down to make a run for Congress and introduced Obama as her chosen successor. Alice Palmer was an official of a notorious Communist Soviet front group (so identified by the FBI), wrote an article for the People's Weekly World, a house organ for the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). In that dispatch, Palmer favorably recounted her experiences attending the 27th Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
Former Obama advisor, Robert Malley, suddenly cut his advisory ties to the Obama campaign after he was forced to acknowledge that he had talked with Hamas, which is on the State Department list of terrorist organizations. You also may recall that Hamas advisor Ahmed Yousef was quoted as saying, "We like Mr. Obama. We hope he will win the election." Malley is Program Director for the International Crisis Group, lavishly funded by billionaire George Soros, whose number one aim in life is to steer America and the world sharply leftward. He reportedly would like to see a national convention by 2020 to write a new constitution for the United States. Robert Malley's father, Simon Malley, was an important figure in the Egyptian Communist Party, was pro-Soviet, passionately anti-Israel, and anti-West. He was booted out of Egypt and later out of France for awhile, to be welcomed back later when the more leftwing government of the socialist Francois Mitterrand took over in Paris. Martin Peretz, in the New Republic, described Malley as "a rabid hater of Israel," and described several of Malley's articles in the New York Review of Books as "deceitful." Yet, he was an officially annointed Obama advisor. Is anyone paying attention?
Herbert Romerstein, whose professional background in security and intelligence matters knows where the bodies are buried, released two documents that are chockablock with names, dates, places — page after page detailing the "Obama connection" to communists, socialists, and violent radicals. One deals with Obama's associates in Hawaii, the other is focused on his background in Chicago.
Obama campaign’s official blogger, Sam Graham-Felsen, has spent time in France participating in labor riots, has written for a socialist magazine, hung a communist flag in his home, and was a fan of Marx while at Harvard.
Not to mention this group listed on his own website:
Marxists/Socialists/Communists for Obama
To what extent do these people influence him — the communist Frank Davis, the neo-communists Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn, the anti-Semitic pro-Arab terrorist groups that he met with in Chicago, the anti-American/racist sermons of Rev. Wright. To what extent do they influence his thinking, and will he repudiate those people?"
Just as American voters seemed to be willing to anoint as their messianic savior a junior senator just one half-step to the political right of Dennis Kucinich, some light is shown on Obama's REAL change for the United States of America is not what our country is founded on.
zipman
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2002
- Posts
- 38,552
B_Gus_Richards
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2006
- Posts
- 848
I disagree.
Yeast rises.
And serves some kind of useful purpose. Don't forget that.
Lancecastor
Lit's Most Beloved Poster
- Joined
- May 14, 2002
- Posts
- 54,670
I think it'll be good for the USA to have a multi-ethnic muslim-born former christian agnostic President who for once admits to having ultra-radical hippy friends, smoking pot, snorting coke, criminal funding and buying the election Chicago-style.
All the other crooked Presidents tried to pull a Nixon and kept denying what everyone knew.
At least this Obama guy is honest about his dishonesty.
I like him!
All the other crooked Presidents tried to pull a Nixon and kept denying what everyone knew.
At least this Obama guy is honest about his dishonesty.
I like him!
The_Trouvere
Literotica Guru
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2008
- Posts
- 11,189
MeeMie, Barack Obama is a liberal with a lot of radical leftist friends. That's one of the reasons for his popularity, especially among the well educated. Get used to it.
MeeMie
No Spam Here
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2005
- Posts
- 7,328
Maybe his popularity among the "educated" radical leftist crowd, but not middle America.
But, thank you, for repeating Obama's sentiments about the ignorant people clinging to their Bibles and guns.
Cade Is Here
Troll Magnet
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Posts
- 25,253
America is over with if obama gets in.
RobDownSouth
BoycotDivestSanctio
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2002
- Posts
- 78,368
hogjack
Permanent Pause
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Posts
- 35,617
Liquidating America's merchandise is going to take months.
I'm waiting until the going-out-of-business sale is at 75% off. That's when the deals are fantastic!!
G
Guest
Guest
Dude, has anyone ever told you that you're a full-blown, closet-racist, conspiracy-theory-addled nut job? More importantly, would it make a difference if they did?
hogjack
Permanent Pause
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2002
- Posts
- 35,617
Cap’n AMatrixca
Copper Top
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2005
- Posts
- 59,697
I guess your post depends on what constitutes "throwing Iraq to the wolves" and whether or not the fate of Israel is linked to the fate of Iraq, which is certainly debateable.
I don't see Iran attacking Israel at all in the near future.
As for your last paragraph, you have argued that very point on these boards, although not for quite a while. I remember quite a few times that you and A_J said we don't have to do anything to Iran since their people are going to revolt and throw out their leadership and that the Iranian people are rational and do want the same thing as we do.
While I'm no Cheyenne, being and oldie here does have it's advantages.
Who is running Hizbollah and who won the last conflict agains the Leftist Olmert?
Hizbollah.
Got their prisoners.
Where's the Jew?
"Oh, we should have mentioned, he escaped. He didn't get back?"
OH!Bama and OH!Biden think they can talk to these guys...
Similar threads
