FLDS compound

[isthisdesire]

It happens as a practical fact, frequently. There were multiple sealings in the early church, and that practice was never stopped. What was stopped was one man being sealed to two living women. As I said, polygamy is only prohibited in this life.

The following is taken from the Church Handbook of Instructions:


http://ldsfreedom.org/PAGES/TOPICS_PAGES/Church_Handbook/chi00.htm

I italicised the relevant portions. The Church makes no secret of these policies and practices.

so you consider it polygamy for a man to be married, his wife passes away and then he remarries?

I'm sorry, but that is not polygamy. what happens in Heaven is between Mormons and God. if they think they'll be reunited with their deceased wife and still live in glory with the woman he married after her, who the hell cares? our laws in America don't dictate what we have to do when we die.

you should have been more clear about what you meant. I see no problem with men remarrying if their wife dies. do you? really? Mormons shouldn't be allowed to do that?

besides the fact that, like you said, we could argue all day about what a "cornerstone" of a religion is and I take it to mean something you HAVE to do to be in good standing with the church. a widower doesn't HAVE to get remarried if he doesn't want to.

I don't see the problem at all.

 

[RoryN]

I'm not a Mormon. it's not my job to validate the Mormon church's doctrine or defend their "foundations."

You have an alterior motive. You just don't have the integrity to be up front about it.

 

[smartandsexy]

so you consider it polygamy for a man to be married, his wife passes away and then he remarries?

I'm sorry, but that is not polygamy. what happens in Heaven is between Mormons and God. if they think they'll be reunited with their deceased wife and still live in glory with the woman he married after her, who the hell cares? our laws in America don't dictate what we have to do when we die.

you should have been more clear about what you meant. I see no problem with men remarrying if their wife dies. do you? really? Mormons shouldn't be allowed to do that?

besides the fact that, like you said, we could argue all day about what a "cornerstone" of a religion is and I take it to mean something you HAVE to do to be in good standing with the church. a widower doesn't HAVE to get remarried if he doesn't want to.

I don't see the problem at all.

You're back-tracking and squirming like hell. I said we were talking about polygamy in the celestial kingdom, not in this life a number of times, and I've shown you exactly that. We're not talking marriage, we're talking sealings. If you don't understand the huge difference between those two concepts in relation to mormon spirituality, then we need to start at a far more basic level before we can debate this.

And hey, I'm not criticising mormons for doing this. I don't see a problem with it either - I wasn't aware we discussing the morality of plural marriage. I'm pro-honesty, not anti-polygamy.

 

[isthisdesire]

You have an alterior motive. You just don't have the integrity to be up front about it.

what is my motive? tell me. I'm dying to know.

 

[isthisdesire]

You're back-tracking and squirming like hell. I said we were talking about polygamy in the celestial kingdom, not in this life a number of times, and I've shown you exactly that. We're not talking marriage, we're talking sealings. If you don't understand the huge difference between those two concepts in relation to mormon spirituality, then we need to start at a far more basic level before we can debate this.

And hey, I'm not criticising mormons for doing this. I don't see a problem with it either - I wasn't aware we discussing the morality of plural marriage. I'm pro-honesty, not anti-polygamy.

if there is such a huge difference between marriage and sealings then we're not talking about polygamy at all. polygamy is about marriage alone.

your argument is over before it's started.

and you even said, "The Church makes no secret of these policies and practices." so where is the lack of honesty?

 

[RoryN]

what is my motive? tell me. I'm dying to know.

Sorry - typo above. Ulterior.

And I don't know what it is. That's why it's called an ulterior motive, kiddo.

 

[isthisdesire]

Sorry - typo above. Ulterior.

And I don't know what it is. That's why it's called an ulterior motive, kiddo.

what could it possibly be? I'm an undercover Mormon on a porn board trying to prove a point? come on.

 

[smartandsexy]

if there is such a huge difference between marriage and sealings then we're not talking about polygamy at all. polygamy is about marriage alone.

your argument is over before it's started.

and you even said, "The Church makes no secret of these policies and practices." so where is the lack of honesty?

You're absolutely wrong in regard to the mormon notion of polygamy - it is all about the sealings. If my argument had no merit, why did you not cut me off the first time I mentioned celestial marriage/sealings? Instead you asked me to prove my case. You asked me to provide evidence for an argument you felt to be completely irrelevant? Odd move.

I mean pro-honesty in that the Church is happy to make broad pronouncements against polygamy without clarification. When challenged they will admit the things I've pointed out, but I feel their wholehearted condemnation of polygamy (without qualification) to be intellectually dishonest. Let's not fudge the issue, the honest truth that the LDS church is against earthly polygamy but still embraces spiritual polygamy.

 

[Lavared]

A brief commercial break

One of the below pictured groups practices polygamy.

http://images.artnet.com/artwork_images_113308_235881_mark-laita.jpg

Is it a) the group on the left, or b) the group on the right? Both groups show one man with three women. What makes you certain that the group you choose is correct?

 

[isthisdesire]

You're absolutely wrong in regard to the mormon notion of polygamy - it is all about the sealings. If my argument had no merit, why did you not cut me off the first time I mentioned celestial marriage/sealings? Instead you asked me to prove my case? You asked me to provide evidence for an argument you felt to be completely irrelevant? Odd move.

I mean pro-honesty in that the Church is happy to make broad pronouncements against polygamy without clarification. When challenged they will admit the things I've pointed out, but I feel their wholehearted condemnation of polygamy (without qualification) to be intellectually dishonest. Let's not fudge the issue, the honest truth that the LDS church is against earthly polygamy but still embraces spiritual polygamy.

it seems it's not the same thing. it's not like men get "sealed" to multiple women while they're here on earth and then don't live with them or get married. you make it sound like they're hiding their multiple wives until they get to heaven. that's not what's happening.

what needs clarification? a Mormon man can remarry if his wife dies. yes, that means he's "sealed" to more than one woman, but she's not here. there is no polygamy.

as for my asking for proof, I misunderstood what you were referring to because you were unclear. if you were talking about remarriage, you should have said so. that's the only case where this supposed "polygamy" takes place. kind of a relevant bit of info, no?

 

[smartandsexy]

it seems it's not the same thing. it's not like men get "sealed" to multiple women while they're here on earth and then don't live with them or get married. you make it sound like they're hiding their multiple wives until they get to heaven. that's not what's happening.

what needs clarification? a Mormon man can remarry if his wife dies. yes, that means he's "sealed" to more than one woman, but she's not here. there is no polygamy.

as for my asking for proof, I misunderstood what you were referring to because you were unclear. if you were talking about remarriage, you should have said so. that's the only case where this supposed "polygamy" takes place. kind of a relevant bit of info, no?

I said right from the start that a man can't be sealed to more than woman while they are alive. How on earth did you get the suggestion of hiding multiple wives from that?

No, you clearly still don't get it. Marriage does not equal sealing. A widow can remarry. It's not the same.

Here's my first post in this thread:

Rory's right in that it is a cornerstone of the doctrine. Yes, the church condemns having two concurrent wives in this life. However, the LDS church also still teaches that polygamy will be practised in the celestial kingdom. Within the LDS church a man can still be sealed to more than one woman 'for time and all eternity'.

I've bolded the 'relevant bit of info' for you. But in case that wasn't entirely obvious, here's what I wrote in my second post:

It is a common practice for a man to be sealed to another woman after his first wife has died (and theoretically to an unlimited number of women as long as each one dies before the subsequent marriage, so that polygamy doesn't occur in this life). Each of those sealings is valid for time and all eternity.

I can't get much clearer than that. If you didn't understand that I was referring to remarriage, then I really don't think that's due to any lack of clarity in that post.

 

[RoryN]

what is my motive? tell me. I'm dying to know.

what could it possibly be? I'm an undercover Mormon on a porn board trying to prove a point? come on.

Maybe it has something to do with people you know:

Mormons are the BEST. my roommate first semester of college was Mormon and those are the nicest people you'll ever meet. seriously. they're great.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=13665271&highlight=mormon#post13665271

my mother became a lds when she was very young... mostly because the church was the only thing that helped her family. they were on welfare and my grandfather had left. she credits her turning out so well to the Mormon church. they do good work. there are good people there.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=13665517&highlight=mormon#post13665517

 

[isthisdesire]

I said right from the start that a man can't be sealed to more than woman while they are alive. How on earth did you get the suggestion of hiding multiple wives from that?

No, you clearly still don't get it. Marriage does not equal sealing. A widow can remarry. It's not the same.

Here's my first post in this thread:


I've bolded the 'relevant bit of info' for you. But in case that wasn't entirely obvious, here's what I wrote in my second post:

I can't get much clearer than that. If you didn't understand that I was referring to remarriage, then I really don't think that's due to any lack of clarity in that post.

then I misunderstood.
that's it.

 

[isthisdesire]

Maybe it has something to do with people you know:



http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=13665271&highlight=mormon#post13665271



http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=13665517&highlight=mormon#post13665517

how dare I enjoy people who are Mormons? clearly that means I can't argue with someone about doctrine.

...what is your point? my mom was a Mormon so I'm a Mormon trying to take over Lit with my pro-Mormon rhetoric?

little Rory, give it up. s&s is doing a MUCH better job. you're just making yourself look silly.

 

[Slowlane]

what could it possibly be? I'm an undercover Mormon on a porn board trying to prove a point? come on.

Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to say that - but it's how you come across. You are very into hair splitting.

 

[RoryN]

...what is your point? my mom was a Mormon so I'm a Mormon trying to take over Lit with my pro-Mormon rhetoric?

Nope. My point is the following:

You have an ulterior motive. You just don't have the integrity to be up front about it.

To which your response should have been something akin to:

Well, my mother was a Mormon, and I have a high opinion of Mormons, but those facts alone aren't motivating my position on this issue.

Instead, your response was:

what is my motive?

what could it possibly be?

Which proves my point about your lack of integrity.

Seems you only like proof and facts when they suit you; my proof of your bias doesn't seem to be making you content.

 

[isthisdesire]

Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to say that - but it's how you come across. You are very into hair splitting.

yep, that's me. a secret Mormon here with all the whores trying to convert everyone.

anyone Mormon yet?

no? I guess I'll have to try harder.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

One of the below pictured groups practices polygamy.

http://images.artnet.com/artwork_images_113308_235881_mark-laita.jpg

Is it a) the group on the left, or b) the group on the right? Both groups show one man with three women. What makes you certain that the group you choose is correct?

Since everyone looks to be of age - I don't care which group is polygamous. But if I HAD to guess it would be the group on the left.

 

[isthisdesire]

Nope. My point is the following:



To which your response should have been something akin to:



Instead, your response was:




Which proves my point about your lack of integrity.

Seems you only like proof and facts when they suit you; my proof of your bias doesn't seem to be making you content.

all right dear, let me make this clear for you.
the only reason I began speaking to you in this is thread was because you made an outrageous claim ("Mormons secretly endorse polygamy!") and provided NO proof. you then REFUSED to prove what you were saying.
that was my motive. end of story.

I'm going to class now. I know how you hate it when I leave Lit for any real life activity so I thought I'd let you know beforehand so you don't have some sort of breakdown in my absence.

 

[FrankNFurter]

She further testified that at least five girls who under the age of 18 are currently pregnant.[/B]

It would be easy find girls under the age of 18 who are in pregnant in most American cities. Let's remove everyone's children

 

[RoryN]

all right dear, let me make this clear for you.
the only reason I began speaking to you in this is thread was because you made an outrageous claim ("Mormons secretly endorse polygamy!") and provided NO proof. you then REFUSED to prove what you were saying.
that was my motive. end of story.

As I've demonstrated above, your motive extended beyond that. You weren't forthcoming about your mom and your strong pro-Mormon stance. I had to dig up 3-year-old posts to keep you honest.

*shrug* You fucked up.

 

[smartandsexy]

then I misunderstood.
that's it.

Fair enough. An apology for twisting my words and accusing me of being less than upfront about my position from the beginning would have been a nice touch, but at least we're not wrangling about established church positions anymore, which is good.

 

[Barabbas]

As I've demonstrated above, your motive extended beyond that. You weren't forthcoming about your mom and your strong pro-Mormon stance. I had to dig up 3-year-old posts to keep you honest.

*shrug* You fucked up.

Shame on you.
The Avenging Angels are going to get you.

 

[killallhippies]

redd kross

 

[RoryN]

Shame on you.
The Avenging Angels are going to get you.

Dun dun duuuuun!
*paranoia ensues*