Why do you even bother to try to be a good writer? Why?

[Stella_Omega]

Your opinion is irrelevant, too. But you know it already. Youre the Queen of Impotence around here.

If that were true you wouldn't have bothered to respond.

 

[3113]

Why not just write a plate load of bull crap cowpie with butter and brown sugar on top and kick it up to Lulu or some shit?

Believe me, I've tried to be a bad writer. I can't seem to do it. I'm just too good.

 

[TxRad]

Believe me, I've tried to be a bad writer. I can't seem to do it. I'm just too good.

When you start out with a bad idea and get a good story, then yes, you are a good writer.

As for Shades of Gray, I have no idea if it is plagiarized or not as I've never read any of the Twilight series. Werewolves and such are just not interesting to me. But then again, how many truly original ideas are there or were there? Everything is just a spinoff of something else in one way or another.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I'm pretty damn tired of the pejorative "mommyporn," as if mothers can't possibly know what real porn is-- or that any woman who gets wet reading cheap erotica is happiest staying barefoot and pregnant or something.

Oh for the love of God, that's such a petty thing to take offense over.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Why do you care

You don't have any work on this site.

That's because I deleted it. I put it up on Erotic Stories and a few other places. And this is not about people's stories on this site. It's about the utterly CRAPPY ASSED WRITING that is 50 Shades of Grey.

You could write the best stuff in the world (well, not you, since you're an idiot worthy only of being sneered at) and it would get rejected in favor of this 50 shades of assmunch bullshit.

 

[TxRad]

Ah, there is the LJ everyone has on ignore and Laurel usually boots back to the GB.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

That's because I deleted it. I put it up on Erotic Stories and a few other places. And this is not about people's stories on this site. It's about the utterly CRAPPY ASSED WRITING that is 50 Shades of Grey.

You could write the best stuff in the world (well, not you, since you're an idiot worthy only of being sneered at) and it would get rejected in favor of this 50 shades of assmunch bullshit.

http://www.demotivationalposters.or...amp-gtfo-demotivational-poster-1208138364.jpg

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

There is a segment of Master of the universe posted in the 50 shades of Gray thread in the BDSM forum. How convenient it has vanished from public view elsewhere, Head on over to that thread and you will see how identical it is.

I've been harping on this in the 50 shades thread in the BDSM forum.
As I said someone posted the previous work this hack wrote called Master of the UNiverse which was pure Twilight fan fic

Good old E.L. then went practically line by line though it and rewrote it as 50 shades.

It is frustrating to authors who work hard and attempt to come up with something new. Granted something that has never been done before is pretty hard these days, but people still try.

This person just shut off her mind and borrowed extensively from previously written material and cashing in on a ready made fan base.

Interesting that as much hype as it has gotten last I looked 1 in every ten reviews on book one was negative and many siting its fan fic influence.

Much of the paying public are lemmings and now that it has been hyped sales will soar driven by people who can now say "Yeah, I read it."

I guess some credit is due to her for being smart enough to manipualte the system.

There's nuthin new under the Sun, what matters is what the writing does to the reader. And what the reader wants is for your words to be the most compelling and important experience of all that compete for her attention.

 

[cfuhrer]

your words to be the most compelling and important experience of all that compete for her attention.

I don't think anyone would argue against that statement. They way I read LJ's argument is that he thinks the reader needs to raise the bar of what they find compelling and important. And I can't say that I think he is wrong.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't think anyone would argue against that statement. They way I read LJ's argument is that he thinks the reader needs to raise the bar of what they find compelling and important. And I can't say that I think he is wrong.

Since when is sexual gratification not compelling and important?



And who are we to judge who is worthy of such?

 

[cfuhrer]

Since when is sexual gratification not compelling and important?

I never said it wasn't.

And who are we to judge who is worthy of such?

I'm not judging anyone.

I'm merely stating my opinion that time and again a twinkie tops the best seller list while tiramisu is left to gather dust on library shelves.

 

[GobletHolly182]

I don't try to be a good writer. I try to write good...stories, essays, letters, novels, vignettes, emails, whatever. I love writing, and part of writing, to me, is finding the perfect word, creating the most believable emotional breakthrough, nailing a character's caustic sense of humor, etc., etc.

Appealing to the masses is (large) part crap shoot, but also part skill and part conscious intent. I think a lot of excellent writers prioritize writing the best story as THEY see it over writing the story that will make them millions - this has to be related to the large crap shoot aspect. IMHO, there's eventually a tradeoff between a work's overall literary merit and its quantity of fanservice (meaning any sort of gratuitous titillation, not just nakedness), and a lot of fanfiction falls towards the fanservice end of the spectrum - where it is in good company with books like Breaking Dawn. Guess I'm an elitist

I haven't read 50 Shades yet, but I did read some excerpts on Jezebel and they were...worthy of Stephanie Meyer. I'm going to read the whole book so that I can hate on it with authority I'm mostly annoyed by my girlfriends who drool over it for the same reasons they drooled over Twilight: sex in the form of a dangerous monster grovels at the altar of unmeditated feminine beauty. I get that it's a sweet fantasy, but can you please not throw all your standards for plot, characterization, theme, and diction out the window?

Ultimately, I tell myself it's an endearing characteristic of humanity that every new generation thinks it discovered sex. Cause Mommies have never been kinky before now...

 

[Stella_Omega]

I never said it wasn't.



I'm not judging anyone.

I'm merely stating my opinion that time and again a twinkie tops the best seller list while tiramisu is left to gather dust on library shelves.

Nice aphorism!

 

[The_Maestro_Braddock]

Just to clarify, we all know that Master of the Universe and E.L. are one in the same, yes? And that she's been open about it starting as Twilight fanfic?

I don't disagree that the derivativeness of it is frustrating, I just want to make sure no one thinks E.L. stole 50 from Master of the Universe. If I misread what you were saying, Lovecraft, I apologize for my error.

There is a segment of Master of the universe posted in the 50 shades of Gray thread in the BDSM forum. How convenient it has vanished from public view elsewhere, Head on over to that thread and you will see how identical it is.

I've been harping on this in the 50 shades thread in the BDSM forum.
As I said someone posted the previous work this hack wrote called Master of the UNiverse which was pure Twilight fan fic

Good old E.L. then went practically line by line though it and rewrote it as 50 shades.

It is frustrating to authors who work hard and attempt to come up with something new. Granted something that has never been done before is pretty hard these days, but people still try.

This person just shut off her mind and borrowed extensively from previously written material and cashing in on a ready made fan base.

Interesting that as much hype as it has gotten last I looked 1 in every ten reviews on book one was negative and many siting its fan fic influence.

Much of the paying public are lemmings and now that it has been hyped sales will soar driven by people who can now say "Yeah, I read it."

I guess some credit is due to her for being smart enough to manipualte the system.

 

[beatrice_dreams]

I see no point in being jealous of any writer, whatever I may think of his or her work. The variables involved in getting published are too many to reduce to a simple formula. Most of the time, it comes down to having the right product at the right time, which means when a publisher is looking for something like what you're selling. All the rest is a crap shoot.

Anytime an author sells a ton of books, be happy for them. Their success fuels the market for the rest of us.

I have to say that I'm in agreement with you on this one. One of the things that bothers me most about British culture is the speed at which successful people are vilified and ridiculed. Success should be applauded and if we really want to be successful too we might better spend our time finding out what it was that they did right.

If the books truly are the result of plagiarism, I'm sure Stephanie Meyer will be seeing James in court, and major Hollywood studios wouldn't be running the risk of optioning the movie rights.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't think anyone would argue against that statement. They way I read LJ's argument is that he thinks the reader needs to raise the bar of what they find compelling and important. And I can't say that I think he is wrong.

I hold the opposite view. Something like 911 or a 10 foot tall prison cellmate commands your attention. Dont give your reader an option, craft compelling prose.

Iliterate street thugs are fascinated with Shakespeare when the story is costumed, choreographed, and audited to their station.

 

[Loring2]

I'm pretty damn tired of the pejorative "mommyporn," as if mothers can't possibly know what real porn is-- or that any woman who gets wet reading cheap erotica is happiest staying barefoot and pregnant or something.

Not to mention the laughable corollary that of course, the speaker and audience are smarter and more speshul in their own porn consumption because they are not mommies.

Why Stella, that has the downright ring of statesmanship (statewomanship?) to it as well as a forthright call to arms. The alarum has sounded. Not !

The fact is Stell... many, if not most men sanctify their mothers, some are fortunate enough not to do this but Stella, if a man's mother is a goddess, how can she read porn. It's simply unthinkable

 

[Stella_Omega]

well... Loring... maybe that's one of the reasons why some women are irritated by the phrase.

At SOME point, a woman has to enjoy herself, no matter what her children think.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I don't think anyone would argue against that statement. They way I read LJ's argument is that he thinks the reader needs to raise the bar of what they find compelling and important. And I can't say that I think he is wrong.

I just don't want America turning into an Idiocracy. 50 Shades of Grey is doing just that. It's plagiarism and illiteracy, glorified.

 

[lovecraft68]

I just don't want America turning into an Idiocracy.

Hate to break it to you, but its way to late for that.

The US is rapidly becoming a laughing stock and it has nothing to do with writing turning into bubblegum pop.

But back to Shades. Upon thinking about it, I have realized what this really reminds me of and that is music.

Back in the fifties when do-wop was hitting big and then in the sixties when the Beatles and the British invasion came about. American producers were not discovering bands they were making them.

They would pick people based on a particular look and sound over talent, then stick them together, write songs for them and put them out there. The album would make some money, but the band had no staying power because they had no real talent, but the producers cashed in and moved on.

Shades is not E.L's brainchild or creative "baby" it is a manufactured book. It is totally formulaic and strategically aimed at an already established market. Hell it was even handled by the same editors that did Twilight.

Same thing with TV. CSI hit it big and spawned how many shows based on the concept?

Sadly this is what the market wants, they want same old same old. They want comfortable and predictable and they want happy endings.

Girl with The Dragon tattoo is twenty times the series shades is and although it has done very well, Shades will eventually eclipse it because Dragon was disturbing and not vanilla. Shades is "happily ever after"

again perfect marketing. Shades is not a book it is a product.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Hate to break it to you, but its way to late for that.

The US is rapidly becoming a laughing stock and it has nothing to do with writing turning into bubblegum pop.

But back to Shades. Upon thinking about it, I have realized what this really reminds me of and that is music.

Back in the fifties when do-wop was hitting big and then in the sixties when the Beatles and the British invasion came about. American producers were not discovering bands they were making them.

They would pick people based on a particular look and sound over talent, then stick them together, write songs for them and put them out there. The album would make some money, but the band had no staying power because they had no real talent, but the producers cashed in and moved on.

Shades is not E.L's brainchild or creative "baby" it is a manufactured book. It is totally formulaic and strategically aimed at an already established market. Hell it was even handled by the same editors that did Twilight.

Same thing with TV. CSI hit it big and spawned how many shows based on the concept?

Sadly this is what the market wants, they want same old same old. They want comfortable and predictable and they want happy endings.

Girl with The Dragon tattoo is twenty times the series shades is and although it has done very well, Shades will eventually eclipse it because Dragon was disturbing and not vanilla. Shades is "happily ever after"

again perfect marketing. Shades is not a book it is a product.

I have yet to read Shades, but I have read twilight and seen three of the movies. They do not disturb me in the way that the books disturb many of my friends, or indeed, the people here.

There will always be good 'fringe' fiction. With the internet, that makes it easier, cheaper, and more available then ever before. The entertainment industry has always been about 'products', and if we are going to continue with the music metaphors, a lot of groundbreaking famous songs that are remembered today, were not popular at the time they were written.

For example, 1969, a lot of good music was from that year, honky-tonk woman by the rolling stones, heartbreaker and whole lotta love from led zeppelin, and many others that people still love and still listen to.

But in 1969, the song that topped the charts for the longest was 'sugar, sugar' by a fictional band, the archies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9nE2spOw_o

That's one thing that is great about the arts, whether it's books or cinema or music. The great stuff (usually) gets remembered, the popular crap (usually) gets forgotten.

One more thing, a lot of the time, the popular stuff is popular for a reason.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

well... Loring... maybe that's one of the reasons why some women are irritated by the phrase.

At SOME point, a woman has to enjoy herself, no matter what her children think.

Females are always pissed about something, when a guy finally gets this and stops trying to fix what cant be fixed his emancipation has arrived.

 

[lovecraft68]

I have yet to read Shades, but I have read twilight and seen three of the movies. They do not disturb me in the way that the books disturb many of my friends, or indeed, the people here.

There will always be good 'fringe' fiction. With the internet, that makes it easier, cheaper, and more available then ever before. The entertainment industry has always been about 'products', and if we are going to continue with the music metaphors, a lot of groundbreaking famous songs that are remembered today, were not popular at the time they were written.

For example, 1969, a lot of good music was from that year, honky-tonk woman by the rolling stones, heartbreaker and whole lotta love from led zeppelin, and many others that people still love and still listen to.

But in 1969, the song that topped the charts for the longest was 'sugar, sugar' by a fictional band, the archies. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9nE2spOw_o

That's one thing that is great about the arts, whether it's books or cinema or music. The great stuff (usually) gets remembered, the popular crap (usually) gets forgotten.

One more thing, a lot of the time, the popular stuff is popular for a reason.

Who are you telling? When I discovered Lovecraft at age 10 he was far from a household name, and of course the guy died a pauper. Back when he was writing the pulps were sticking him in the back of magazines while Tarzan rip offs made the covers.

Now everything is "cthulhu" this and that, some how some way HP got "popular"

For Twilight my only opinion there is that I dislike the wussy vampires that it made popular as I am a horror purist. But Meyers did some original work there and has become the "archies" of writing, but at least she had the nucleus of some original things.

Shades is a cheap rendition of it and now there will be a series of stuff that rip offs shades.

I've spent parts of two years completing a BDSM novel that should hit amazon early this summer. There is nothing in it that is terribly unique on its own, but I have strung together the hardcore sex that would appeal to BDSM purists, but also admittedly have put in enough storyline and characterization to possibly strike it with the "mommy porn" audience.

It will be interesting to see if the romance pisses off the sex freaks and the hard sex scares away the mommy's/. There is also quite a bit of humor in it.

All in all I am billing this as a Hardcore soap opera. I put the first chapter up here on lit for two weeks to get some feedback and then pulled it. While here the story had a 4.92 rating, but that's lit, not a paying market.

Maybe I'll get lucky and do okay with it, but I doubt it.

The frustration with things like Shades lie in me(and many other authors) knowing that if I stopped wasting my time attempting to write my concept and write it as "me" and just started reworking vanilla pop like this I would have a better chance of success.

BTW Happy Easter C2BK.

 

[lance gt]

well... Loring... maybe that's one of the reasons why some women are irritated by the phrase.

At SOME point, a woman has to enjoy herself, no matter what her children think.

I think that's the hardest thing for kids to do, is imagine their parents being sexual beings. Who can sit here now and picture their Mom with a sexy story and a vibrator buzzing away?

 

[GobletHolly182]

One more thing, a lot of the time, the popular stuff is popular for a reason.

That's the heart of it. I know you're implying the reason is that it's good, but philosophers, anthropologists, economists, culturalists, etc. have debated that reason for centuries. Lovecraft summarized Marx's take on culture succinctly:

Shades is not a book it is a product.

Culture itself is a product to Marxists, and one controlled by those who control the means of production. Critics have moved the emphasis from production to consumption, and suggest that the consumer plays a crucial role in determining a product's meaning.

And, I'm late for Easter brunch. (Easter is a product, too!)