How is it that abuse is now king?

[Wifetheif]

It may seem odd coming from a member who mostly posts nonconsent stories but why is abuse suddenly king? It may have started with Stephanie Meyer's Twilight series where a century-plus immortal vampire goes from a creepy stalker who does stuff like sneak into Bella Swan's room while she is sleeping so that he can gaze upon her enchanting visage while she is dead to the world to an ideal romantic object of love. Despite the fact that Edward has seen every president since Teddy Roosevelt, he seeks intercourse with a woman young enough to be his great-great-grandaughter! Ick! Ick! Ick! Many commentators have pointed out that Bella is in a controlling abusive relationship. This may reflect the real-world situation of Meyer. A conservative Mormon, she is a woman very much without agency. Her brother controls all the profits that come from the Twilight franchise. It is also quite clear that despite having multiple kids Meyer hates sex and intimacy and likens even consensual sex in the bounds of matrimony as violent and life-threatening. For unknown reasons, the novels sold phenomenally well and inspired "Fifty Shades of Grey" Christian Grey is a manipulative jerk who abuses Anastasia and she comes to revel in it. Fifty Shades is NOTHING like an actual consensual BDSM relationship. Fifty Shades inspired "365 Days" where a mafioso kidnaps and abuses an innocent woman in an effort to make her fall in love with him over the course of a year.
Now we have Coleen Hoover who romanticizes abuse and manipulation in her novels. The plot of "September 9th" is so disgusting it makes me, a writer who regularly puts innocent women into collars, nauseous! If you don't believe me check out any synopsis or review on Youtube.
How did we get to this point where nonconsent stories on this site are gentler and more believable and give women more agency and affection than huge best-selling authors?
I could not live with myself if I put a character like that in one of my stories and tried to pass him off as the "good guy."
Most perplexing, these stories come from women. Are all men so bad that jerks, creeps, and manipulators are the only experience they know? If men wrote these books, angry feminists would be burning the bookstores that dared sell them. How did this perplexing and disgusting trend come to be? As a man I am often ashamed of my gender, but if these works of fiction are the result of reflecting modern manhood's reality our race may in fact be doomed.
Any ideas on where this school of literature is coming from? I am beyond perplexed.

 

[AchtungNight]

I don’t really enjoy any of these authors or series. Abuse is not king with me. It’s a despicable thing. I’m not going to define what should replace it. Let’s just step away from it, okay? Maybe romance in general will be more lasting and we can easily find something in that genre that can’t be characterized as abuse.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm no fan of abusive/controlling behaviour being portrayed as romantic, but I'm not seeing the "suddenly". That trope has been around for centuries, e.g.

https://www.folger.edu/explore/shakespeares-works/the-taming-of-the-shrew/read/

 

[Winter_Fare]

Yes! Can't credit Meyers. Her stuff is one long conglomeration of tropes.

I can't be bothered to reference all the stuff I read in the nineties but it was no big on female agency.

There was a standard pattern in many romance novels where the male protagonist was an absolute twat but the heroine still falls in love with him.

And age gaps, bondage, torture even, it was all there before.

 

[Bamagan]

There was a standard pattern in many romance novels where the male protagonist was an absolute twat but the heroine still falls in love with him.

Art imitates life, as they say. One of my best friends has married four such twats. Sequentially, of course.
First there was abusive twat, then wastrel twat (who more or less robbed her), then beard twat (who turned out to be gay but needed some marriage camo to stay in his church), and then abusive twat II, who also tried to rob her but was less successful than wastrel twat.

 

[AchtungNight]

Yeah, I know a woman who was on her fifth marriage when I knew her last. Thought this would be the one to make her happy finally. She’d cheated on the last spouse with him, they had similar narcissistic personalities… eight years and two kids later, they still split. Oh well, I don’t care, she’s a pretty sad person herself. Vicious cycle. Oh well, sometimes this kind of thing still sparks fun stories. 10 Things I Hate About You was a cool adaptation of Taming of the Shrew.

 

[CyranoJ]

It may seem odd coming from a member who mostly posts nonconsent stories but why is abuse suddenly king?

It isn't sudden. The popular "mainstream" romance genre pioneered more NC/R filth in the last half-century than the dirtiest minds of Literotica could dream of. I ascribe my own fondness for that kink to a novel from 1987, and it should not be news to anyone, ever, that many romance novels revolve around women falling in love with abusive douches (it's been a core part of the milieu for fucking ever, and to whatever degree Colleen Hoover continues that trend, she's part of a well-worn tradition). What I suspect we're witnessing to the extent (and granting) that there's any change at all is that writers and their audiences are more willing to be frank about these kinks. If in fact that's a thing, I think it is probably a healthier thing than the (always-failed and disastrous) prior attempts to conceal them.

What disturbs me much more about the current cultural landscape isn't kink: it's the rising neo-puritanism of "clean fiction" and "clean media" movements that seek to erase these uncomfortable things. They're the signal of something far, far more dangerous.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Then let the race be doomed. We only benefit us anyway. They may reflect an aspect or minority group at best. I imagine some people don't see these men as villains, of course there are people that don't have the intrinsic thinking you're doing and think it's romantic. I think your issue with Edwards age is a bit petty, though. Plus he made her a vampire at the end. Would you be with a woman his age? Even you were a vamp? To clarify; human woman.

 

[AchtungNight]

The How It Should Have Ended fanfic depictions of Twilight and Breaking Dawn are way better than the actual plots. Haven’t seen those geniuses address the other media mentioned. My beef is when popular novels I like emphasize angst over happy endings. Example- why the heck did the Dresden Files have to ruin Murphy’s character and then kill her off? Were she and Harry doomed from the beginning? And what sort of crap will they put the hero through next?

 

[JaxRhapsody]

I'll take the ending genuine to the characters and situation over unrealistic levels of happiness every time. (including but not limited to the situation being dire, as in "everyone you love dies to save the world or the entire world blows up" and the person chooses to blow up the world because fuck the world if everyone they love dies regardless.)


Edit: Yeah, I'm a little cynical.

So am I, but my personal issues with relationships lend me being on accord with a nice happy ending, than somebody hurt. The Ozarks pissed me off with that kinda ending for that reason and others involving shit writing.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Hurt is more realistic.

I've never seen The Ozarks.

I was thinking more along the lines of Hallmark movies where the successful woman gives up everything for a guy in a town she fought hard to get out of. Not happening. More realistic for them to have a great fuck then end on good terms for the happier option. If you go full realistic, there's going to be bitterness and cheating at some point in their future.

...my personal issues with relationships...

 

[yibala]

It may seem odd coming from a member who mostly posts nonconsent stories but why is abuse suddenly king? It may have started with Stephanie Meyer's Twilight series where a century-plus immortal vampire goes from a creepy stalker who does stuff like sneak into Bella Swan's room while she is sleeping so that he can gaze upon her enchanting visage while she is dead to the world to an ideal romantic object of love. Despite the fact that Edward has seen every president since Teddy Roosevelt, he seeks intercourse with a woman young enough to be his great-great-grandaughter! Ick! Ick! Ick! Many commentators have pointed out that Bella is in a controlling abusive relationship. This may reflect the real-world situation of Meyer. A conservative Mormon, she is a woman very much without agency. Her brother controls all the profits that come from the Twilight franchise. It is also quite clear that despite having multiple kids Meyer hates sex and intimacy and likens even consensual sex in the bounds of matrimony as violent and life-threatening. For unknown reasons, the novels sold phenomenally well and inspired "Fifty Shades of Grey" Christian Grey is a manipulative jerk who abuses Anastasia and she comes to revel in it. Fifty Shades is NOTHING like an actual consensual BDSM relationship. Fifty Shades inspired "365 Days" where a mafioso kidnaps and abuses an innocent woman in an effort to make her fall in love with him over the course of a year.
Now we have Coleen Hoover who romanticizes abuse and manipulation in her novels. The plot of "September 9th" is so disgusting it makes me, a writer who regularly puts innocent women into collars, nauseous! If you don't believe me check out any synopsis or review on Youtube.
How did we get to this point where nonconsent stories on this site are gentler and more believable and give women more agency and affection than huge best-selling authors?
I could not live with myself if I put a character like that in one of my stories and tried to pass him off as the "good guy."
Most perplexing, these stories come from women. Are all men so bad that jerks, creeps, and manipulators are the only experience they know? If men wrote these books, angry feminists would be burning the bookstores that dared sell them. How did this perplexing and disgusting trend come to be? As a man I am often ashamed of my gender, but if these works of fiction are the result of reflecting modern manhood's reality our race may in fact be doomed.
Any ideas on where this school of literature is coming from? I am beyond perplexed.

Like others, I don't see popular romanticizing of abuse relationships as a new development, but I agree with your conclusions about the repulsiveness of Twilight and Fifty Shades. I read as much of Twilight as I could bear, which was the first part of the first book, and am familiar with Fifty Shades. But I would challenge you to investigate "the unknown reasons" those novels sold well, because I think at least some of those reasons were obvious. Bella was an unremarkable girl. Completely ordinary - and this is emphasized about her over and over again - and lacking in control over her life because the story starts with her being uprooted from her home and forced to move out to the boonies to go to a new school. But she attracts the attention of a powerful man, she has heretofore unknown qualities that make her special, she becomes powerful herself (within the framework of Meyer's imagined society, she's powerful even if her power is linked to men) and the central fulcrum of this fantasy world of vampires and werewolves. This is wish-fulfillment and escape, especially for the girls and women who enjoyed the story, and may have felt like they lacked agency, power or something that made them special in their own lives.

IMO the popularity of these stories is a reflection on a society which hasn't achieved gender equality, either for writers like Meyer or for the millions of readers who find themes in the stories that resonate with them.

-Yib
My stories

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think one should overinterpret the societal importance of twilight or 50 Shades. They're both juvenily written Gothic romances with extra bells and whistles. The type of story has been around for a long time. There's nothing new about female fantasies about mysterious, dominant men.

 

[MajorRewrite]

The popularity of Colleen Hoover is inexplicable. She’s terrible. The queen of contrived plots and cardboard characters.

Because she’s always on the bestseller list, I read a couple of her novels to see what the fuss is about. I was stunned by how bad the books are.

 

[AchtungNight]

Nothing new about wish fulfillment being a primary motivation of popular literature. Every writer has such motivation. It’s when you add arrogance and start acting like yours is the only good book that you have a problem.

 

[lovecraft68]

Abuse is king because its a man's world, but within it are women like Meyers and James who push the idea a POS stalker is somehow romantic and help men take advantage of women-good job ladies, may you meet your characters in real life-and of course there is no better example of abuse being king than this site where femdom is being forced out of BDSM because the category should only be bitch gets hers....Lit's infamous "we don't allow rape, now please check out our NON CONSENT category...and within that they push the idea women always enjoy being raped, so don't worry guys, no always means yes.

Then we have mind control which is pure rape as no consent can be given. And last and king of kings, LW an entire cesspool of misogynistic hate speech and BTB stories where women are raped and tortured for titillation, but hey, its okay! Its only women and they're all evil. Imagine a site that screens comments and let's that type of speech fly right through....wonder what they're fine with promoting?

 

[AchtungNight]

The above poster is arguing the many instances of women being abusers and this is somehow tolerated. Sex denial gambits, the idea that people are entitled to sex or certain things in exchange for sex, these things are as bad for men as they are for women. Not to mention the idea that all men are bad and want sex. Spoiler- yes, we do, but the good people among us want you to also enjoy it and honestly show us that. And not waste both our time and yours playing games around it or making it a manipulative tool. We’re smarter than you think we are. And we’re tactically adept too. And not necessarily malicious. I hope everyone who reads this post understands that message.

Then we have mind control which is pure rape as no consent can be given. And last and king of kings, LW an entire cesspool of misogynistic hate speech and BTB stories where women are raped and tortured for titillation, but hey, its okay! Its only women and they're all evil. Imagine a site that screens comments and let's that type of speech fly right through....wonder what they're fine with promoting?

what if your mind control powers don’t work but someone is willing to humor you by playing a victim and then setting you up for a table flip? I’ve done that with con artists, cult members, internet trolls… it’s fun seeing their faces when they realize their tactics aren’t working on me.

 

[cdstefi]

A lot of factors play into it.

Poisonous misogynist crap as peddled by the likes of Andrew Tate, MRAs, PUAs etc (this shite has real pull on teenage boys; my wife's a secondary school teacher and is horrified by how many of them lap it up).

The lads and ladettes culture of the 90s and 00s, now boiling to a head with the Russell furore.

The dangerous idea peddled to women by the likes of Cosmo etc that bad boys may be no good for you as husband material but they sure know how to fuck (note: it's entirely possible for guys to know how to fuck but also do the dishes, take out the trash, cook dinners and do the laundry).

Personally I've never had a problem with genuinely loving and respecting a partner, but also wanting the hardest kinkiest sex with them we can have, but stopping short at shit like choking or physical/psychological abuse or anything non-consensual. It's supposed to be fun for both after all.

 

[cdstefi]

Because she’s always on the bestseller list, I read a couple of her novels to see what the fuss is about. I was stunned by how bad the books are.

I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged for the same reasons, and came to the same conclusion

 

[AchtungNight]

Lots of people use hate speech to manipulate others. I’m in a bookstore right now and I just saw a title on the bestseller rack called “The Democratic Party Hates America”. News flash- whichever person wrote that title probably hates America also.

In better news, Lisbeth Salandar and Stephen King have new books out. These heroes of mine know how to properly treat abusers. I can hardly wait to read their latest work.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Like others, I don't see popular romanticizing of abuse relationships as a new development, but I agree with your conclusions about the repulsiveness of Twilight and Fifty Shades. I read as much of Twilight as I could bear, which was the first part of the first book, and am familiar with Fifty Shades. But I would challenge you to investigate "the unknown reasons" those novels sold well, because I think at least some of those reasons were obvious. Bella was an unremarkable girl. Completely ordinary - and this is emphasized about her over and over again - and lacking in control over her life because the story starts with her being uprooted from her home and forced to move out to the boonies to go to a new school. But she attracts the attention of a powerful man, she has heretofore unknown qualities that make her special, she becomes powerful herself (within the framework of Meyer's imagined society, she's powerful even if her power is linked to men) and the central fulcrum of this fantasy world of vampires and werewolves. This is wish-fulfillment and escape, especially for the girls and women who enjoyed the story, and may have felt like they lacked agency, power or something that made them special in their own lives.

IMO the popularity of these stories is a reflection on a society which hasn't achieved gender equality, either for writers like Meyer or for the millions of readers who find themes in the stories that resonate with them.

-Yib
My stories

They technically aren't werewolves.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

Abuse is king because its a man's world, but within it are women like Meyers and James who push the idea a POS stalker is somehow romantic and help men take advantage of women-good job ladies, may you meet your characters in real life-and of course there is no better example of abuse being king than this site where femdom is being forced out of BDSM because the category should only be bitch gets hers....Lit's infamous "we don't allow rape, now please check out our NON CONSENT category...and within that they push the idea women always enjoy being raped, so don't worry guys, no always means yes.

Then we have mind control which is pure rape as no consent can be given. And last and king of kings, LW an entire cesspool of misogynistic hate speech and BTB stories where women are raped and tortured for titillation, but hey, its okay! Its only women and they're all evil. Imagine a site that screens comments and let's that type of speech fly right through....wonder what they're fine with promoting?

I agree... it and along with RomComs imply a bad standard on trying to court women.

 

[AchtungNight]

Some RomComs entertain me, bad standards or no. Depends on the skill of the writers, actors, and other people involved.

 

[gunhilltrain]

It may seem odd coming from a member who mostly posts nonconsent stories but why is abuse suddenly king? It may have started with Stephanie Meyer's Twilight series where a century-plus immortal vampire goes from a creepy stalker who does stuff like sneak into Bella Swan's room while she is sleeping so that he can gaze upon her enchanting visage while she is dead to the world to an ideal romantic object of love. Despite the fact that Edward has seen every president since Teddy Roosevelt, he seeks intercourse with a woman young enough to be his great-great-grandaughter! Ick! Ick! Ick! Many commentators have pointed out that Bella is in a controlling abusive relationship. This may reflect the real-world situation of Meyer. A conservative Mormon, she is a woman very much without agency. Her brother controls all the profits that come from the Twilight franchise. It is also quite clear that despite having multiple kids Meyer hates sex and intimacy and likens even consensual sex in the bounds of matrimony as violent and life-threatening. For unknown reasons, the novels sold phenomenally well and inspired "Fifty Shades of Grey" Christian Grey is a manipulative jerk who abuses Anastasia and she comes to revel in it. Fifty Shades is NOTHING like an actual consensual BDSM relationship. Fifty Shades inspired "365 Days" where a mafioso kidnaps and abuses an innocent woman in an effort to make her fall in love with him over the course of a year.
Now we have Coleen Hoover who romanticizes abuse and manipulation in her novels. The plot of "September 9th" is so disgusting it makes me, a writer who regularly puts innocent women into collars, nauseous! If you don't believe me check out any synopsis or review on Youtube.
How did we get to this point where nonconsent stories on this site are gentler and more believable and give women more agency and affection than huge best-selling authors?
I could not live with myself if I put a character like that in one of my stories and tried to pass him off as the "good guy."
Most perplexing, these stories come from women. Are all men so bad that jerks, creeps, and manipulators are the only experience they know? If men wrote these books, angry feminists would be burning the bookstores that dared sell them. How did this perplexing and disgusting trend come to be? As a man I am often ashamed of my gender, but if these works of fiction are the result of reflecting modern manhood's reality our race may in fact be doomed.
Any ideas on where this school of literature is coming from? I am beyond perplexed.

I never knew or cared that Stephenie Meyer was a practicing Mormon, and I know little about her works. I guess when somebody that tightly wound goes off the deep end, well . . . Instesting that her husband's first name is Christian. Anybody do handwriting analysis, assuming there is any validity in it?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...e.svg/150px-Stephenie_meyer_signature.svg.png

I've never read Fifty Shades either, but I've read enough reviews of it to write - a re-imagining of it? Christian does take a few "lumps," but they are not too bad. I think Anastasia is actually offering a new basis for their relationship if he is willing to take it. At least she's funny:

Instead of arguing with him, I said, "You do remember our safe phrase, don't you?"

"Of course, I remember it, it's Dinty Moore." I smiled; I was the one who had chosen that. It was the brand of canned beef stew I had sometimes been served by my mother.

https://classic.literotica.com/s/fifty-shades-of-dark-pink

 

[lovecraft68]

If anyone wants to see how abuse themes rule here, go hangout for awhile in the story ideas forum. Not only do many of the 'ideas' start out with NC themes, but even when they're just simple fun ideas within a few posts someone puts a non con take on it, and many of the ideas are pure NC which is sometimes called out by posters, but never the sham mod there.

But it is a good indicator of the crowd here.