Unhappy Endings

[CalebZhass]

I agree with most of your points - but not this. Happiness can never be meaningless, even if it is lost. It gives characters something to live for, even if it's only glimpses, and a drive to find happiness again.

True, but I am not the character. I'm just wearing their skin, feeling their feelings. I don't have any agency in the story, so glimpses of happiness might give me hope, but when the story ends on a bleak note, I'll feel all the more bad, as unlike the character would be, I'm powerless to change the outcome.

In real life, you are right of course, even glimpses of happiness are worth it to offset an otherwise bleak and sad life. To give hope and motivation to carry on. For a reader of a story however, it is not the same dynamics at play. While I can value the artistic aspect of being true to reality and portraying how the characters can gain hope and motivation from these glimpses of joy, unless the whole proposition or the buildup of the story leads to a sad and negative ending, I'll definitely share their hope, feel their enthusiasm and then feel the letdown when all the efforts were in vain at the end. If I know where the story is going, I will still feel their pain, but I can better brace myself for the eventual fall.

The rest of what you wrote is spot on. The above, I guess it is highly subjective and depends on how deeply one immerses themselves in a story. I tend to be on the far side, living and breathing with the characters I read about, so I am very sensitive to their emotional turmoil. This is also why I prefer happier stories, as well.. who likes to be sad and depressed.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If I know where the story is going, I will still feel their pain, but I can better brace myself for the eventual fall.

No, not to the same depths, you won't. The highs won't be so high and teh lows won't be so low since you know where it's all headed.

If you want the story to go a certain way, write it yourself.

 

[CalebZhass]

No, not to the same depths, you won't. The highs won't be so high and teh lows won't be so low since you know where it's all headed.

If you want the story to go a certain way, write it yourself.

This is at least your second comment I see, where you for whatever strange reason confuse expectations with demands.

Expecting something is not the same as me demanding it.

Let me show you the difference:
- I expect stories to fall in a certain bucket for a genre. I don't mind if a story does not do that, but if its too far off the genre or my expectations, I might not enjoy it personally. I would still not judge the author or "complain" about it. What I'd do is provide constructive feedback on how I felt and why I felt that way. It is then on the author to decide what they do.
If they keep writing stuff I don't like, that's fine. I don't have to like everyone, nor does everyone have to please me personally.

- You telling me to shut up and do it myself if I don't like something is what a demand is. You just expect people to either like something or just shut up about it.

See, when I voice my opinion about someone's work, I do that with the utmost respect knowing how much effort they've put into it. Even for stuff I don't like, I try to be constructive and helpful in my comments. I never expect anyone to heed my advice. Heck, it is more than likely that some of my advice is crap anyway, not to mention it most certainly is subjective. I simply believe, that with enough comments and ratings, the writer can grow and improve.

I hope you too can see the value in that.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

This is at least your second comment I see, where you for whatever strange reason confuse expectations with demands.

Expecting something is not the same as me demanding it.

Let me show you the difference:
- I expect stories to fall in a certain bucket for a genre. I don't mind if a story does not do that, but if its too far off the genre or my expectations, I might not enjoy it personally. I would still not judge the author or "complain" about it. What I'd do is provide constructive feedback on how I felt and why I felt that way. It is then on the author to decide what they do.
If they keep writing stuff I don't like, that's fine. I don't have to like everyone, nor does everyone have to please me personally.

- You telling me to shut up and do it myself if I don't like something is what a demand is. You just expect people to either like something or just shut up about it.

See, when I voice my opinion about someone's work, I do that with the utmost respect knowing how much effort they've put into it. Even for stuff I don't like, I try to be constructive and helpful in my comments. I never expect anyone to heed my advice. Heck, it is more than likely that some of my advice is crap anyway, not to mention it most certainly is subjective. I simply believe, that with enough comments and ratings, the writer can grow and improve.

I hope you too can see the value in that.

First, I never told you to shut up. You imbued that yourself.

You were arguing that your reading experience of a sad story would be more enjoyable if the ending were spoiled or given away in some way to prepare you for the bad end. You can call it expectation or demand but the effect is the same. Even by just expecting the author to cater/pander to your expectations and spoil the ending, you are ruining the story for those who don't want the spoiler. If you need the spoiler, simply read the last page first, or go write your own story your own way with whatever spoiler/foreshadowing that you wish.

If one wants to give feedback to the author that he was disappointed with a bad end that didn't leave him warm and fuzzy that's fine, but one should not expect the author to give a spoiler just to spare his feelings and ruin the experience for everyone or anyone else just because he thinks that his expectations are more important.

 

[CalebZhass]

First, I never told you to shut up. You imbued that yourself.

You were arguing that your reading experience of a sad story would be more enjoyable if the ending were spoiled or given away in some way to prepare you for the bad end.

No, I wasn't arguing that. I don't want the ending to be spoiled, but in general I prefer to know what kind of piece I am watching. If it is a war drama, I'll approach it differently, than if its a comedy. Also if a war drama ends up in comedy, I will be disappointed as I expected something else. Likewise, when I watch comedy and feel my gut wrenched, I will be disappointed, as I expected something else. Should I go on? I don't give a fuck what you think "I should do". Your whole notion that I should care about your preferences is exactly the kind of entitled demanding attitude you accuse others of. Chew on that for a moment.

You can call it expectation or demand but the effect is the same. Even by just expecting the author to cater/pander to your expectations and spoil the ending, you are ruining the story for those who don't want the spoiler.

Man, I wish I would have that kind of pull in life.
A) I don't give a fuck about how others feel about the work I am reading. It is not my job. My job is to enjoy it. To share my feelings about it after having read it.
B) The author might care how people feel about their work and might even decide to change it based on feedback. Is it really my fault for giving feedback if they decide to take some action? You surely can't be serious.
C) The author doesn't have to care. I sure as hell don't. I write the way I like, what I like and for my own reasons. If someone likes my work, cool. If not, they can fuck off.

following me so far?

If you need the spoiler, simply read the last page first, or go write your own story your own way with whatever spoiler/foreshadowing that you wish.

If you want me to do something, I can be your bitch, but I'm an expensive one, so you better be prepared to pay through the nose, especially for dumb, disgusting things like this. In the absence of a business relationship, you stick to what you do, and leave it to me to decide what I do. Thank you.

If one wants to give feedback to the author that he was disappointed with a bad end that didn't leave him warm and fuzzy that's fine, but one should not expect the author to give a spoiler just to spare his feelings and ruin the experience for everyone or anyone else just because he thinks that his expectations are more important.

Everyone think that their expectations are the most important. You yourself are the living proof of that. Me? I can live with you staying the way you are. You don't have to change on my account.

Have a wonderful evening.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Everyone think that their expectations are the most important. You yourself are the living proof of that. Me? I can live with you staying the way you are. You don't have to change on my account.

No I am not. I am simply arguing that if a story does not spoil the ending for those who need some sort of guarantee for a certain ending, those who need that spoiler still have a recourse of going to the last page and spoiling it for themselves. If a story does contain a spoiler warning or some other giveaway, those who wish to enjoy the story as it unfolds regardless of the ending do not have such recourse. For them the story is ruined.

Have a wonderful evening.

No problems here. Hope that you can control your anger enough to do same.

 

[AG31]

I've always liked an unhappy ending. Happiness is more beautiful when things are sad.

Less philosophically, though, how careful should I be about posting a story in Romance that doesn't conclude happily ever after?

It's a story about a couple on the verge of divorce who spend one last night together, in sex and reminiscence of their relationship and lives. They were hoping somewhere that this night would fix things, but it doesn't. The story ends with them following through with the divorce. So it's a sad ending, but not wholly so: they mature, and find closure in their relationship and the joy it brought, and realise the value of moving on.

I feel like people are more expectant of happy endings in the Romance category, but it still definitely fits best for this story. The sex is not centre stage enough for Erotic Couplings to work. And it's definitely not non-erotic. Any advice?

I don't post in or read the romance category (with minor exceptions), but I have very much liked romantic stories outside of erotica and a sad ending would be fine. Think Love Story with Ryan O'Neil and Ali McGraw. That tells you how popular a sad ending can be. (If you're too young, Google it. Then read the book!)

 

[sexsutra]

I read a May/December story recently where the older woman died at the end. Her condition gave her the courage to take a chance with the young man and they had a terrific summer.

I was very torn at the end, which I'm sure was the writers goal. Sweet but sad. I've thought about doing it, but haven't yet.

Would you please be kind and mention that story link here? Thank you

 

[orangecurious]

I wrote this why'd you ever have to say goodbye with the ending as the start for me... I knew what would happen and it wouldn't be good, but tried to arrive there with as much diversion as possible - hence one reason why it was so long (the other being I didn't feel it could be split up and didn't really want to do that)

When it came to the ending, I really struggled as I didn't want that ending to happen, but then, the story wouldn't happen without it.

One other of mine has a surprise ending, but not sad (not overly happy either)

 

[Rob_Royale]

Would you please be kind and mention that story link here? Thank you

I'm sure I commented so I might be able to find it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

No, not to the same depths, you won't. The highs won't be so high and teh lows won't be so low since you know where it's all headed.

If you want the story to go a certain way, write it yourself.

And don't plan it .

 

[pink_silk_glove]

And don't plan it .

Nevar! : P

 

[Rob_Royale]

Would you please be kind and mention that story link here? Thank you

I'm sorry, I'm unable to find it.

 

[onehitwanda]

I'm not sure if it's strictly an unhappy ending, as such, but As You Wish remains at the top of the Romance hall of fame, and The Rehab is still on page 1.

Neither of those are happy endings by any possible description. Hopeful, maybe, but not happy.