The future is dense, walkable cities.

[BrightShinyGirl]

First of all, a helicopter isn't even close to what people assume a flying car would be. Secondly, you are the only person I have ever seen equate a helicopter with a flying car.

Trains are NOT cheap and that is why Amtrak is HEAVILY federally subsidized. In 2021 AMTRAK had $2.1 billion in revenue with $4.1 billion in expenses. Add to that is 2020 and 2021 AMTRAK received an additional $3.7 billion in pandemic aid. The vast majority of long distance rail routes lose money and the only truly profitable routes are in the north east. Riding the train sucks in many aspects, not running on schedule, it takes longer to get places than driving or taking a bus, and my number one complaint is getting stuck with loud mouthed assholes that won't sit down, shut up or behave. It will take a tremendous paradigm shift for rail to become close to a viable alternative to personally owned vehicles and since the government runs AMTRAK it simply won't happen soon or at all.

The interstate system has never come close to turning a profit. Private cars are only viable as transportation with massive government subsidies.

 

[TrailerHitch]

The interstate system has never come close to turning a profit. Private cars are only viable as transportation with massive government subsidies.

Nice diversion from your abysmally wrong comment about trains

You were the one that brought up trains were cheap. I proved you wrong, they are a money pit and always will be.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Nice diversion from your abysmally wrong comment about trains

You were the one that brought up trains were cheap. I proved you wrong, they are a money pit and always will be.

Trains move people more cheaply than helicopters or cars. For example, the interstate system wastes a lot more money than AMTRAK does because cars are so inefficient. It costs trillions to maintain roads that are hardly used.

 

[TrailerHitch]

Trains move people more cheaply than helicopters or cars. For example, the interstate system wastes a lot more money than AMTRAK does because cars are so inefficient. It costs trillions to maintain roads that are hardly used.

I gave hard, provable data, you gave an unsubstantiated opinion. Nothing more. Nice try, but no points will be awarded.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I gave hard, provable data, you gave an unsubstantiated opinion. Nothing more. Nice try, but no points will be awarded.

How much does a highway cost?

 

[TrailerHitch]

How much does a highway cost?

Not for me to prove your points. I proved mine and can give more info if you'd like. Roads are usually paid for by gas tax money, or tolls like in Illinois.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Not for me to prove your points. I proved mine and can give more info if you'd like. Roads are usually paid for by gas tax money, or tolls like in Illinois.

The gas tax only covers a small part of the cost of road maintenance. The rest comes out of the general fund. If drivers paid the full cost of maintaining automobile infrastructure, owning a car would be prohibitively expensive.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Not for me to prove your points. I proved mine and can give more info if you'd like. Roads are usually paid for by gas tax money, or tolls like in Illinois.

I'm asking you to prove your point. yes, I would like more info, which is why I asked the question. What you said about how roads are paid for isn't exactly true.

 

[Sparky74]

It's not the car's that are the problem in America it's the High Polluting Heavy industries.

Also there Justice System is completely Bonkers, although I love Watching Court TV on Sky here in the UK.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

It's not the car's that are the problem in America it's the High Polluting Heavy industries.

Also there Justice System is completely Bonkers, although I love Watching Court TV on Sky here in the UK.

Cars are a serious problem in the US. They raise the cost of housing, create traffic and deaths.

 

[Sparky74]

But not as serious as those filthy poulting industries like the Du pont scandal.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

But not as serious as those filthy poulting industries like the Du pont scandal.

Don't think this thread is about comparing them.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

It's not the car's that are the problem in America it's the High Polluting Heavy industries.

estimates that in 2022, U.S. motor gasoline and diesel (distillate) fuel consumption in the U.S. transportation sector resulted in the emission of about 1,023 million metric tons (MMmt) of carbon dioxide (CO2) and 464 MMmt of CO2, respectively, for a total of about 1,488 MMmt of CO2. This total was equal to about 81% of total U.S. transportation sector CO2 emissions and to about 30% of total U.S. energy-related CO2 emissions in 2022.

But not as serious as those filthy poulting industries like the Du pont scandal.

The Du pont "scandal" is not on carbon emissions, but forever chemicals. I can't find their exact emission in tons,but between 2019 and 2023 Du Pont has reduced GHGE's by 50%.

The leading emmiters of GHG's are:Electrical Generation (coal/natural gas/oil), Heating, and Transportation.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

But not as serious as those filthy poulting industries like the Du pont scandal.

The two leading killers of children in the United States are cars and guns. Polluting industries may be dangerous, but they don’t come anywhere near the carnage caused by cars.

 

[Sparky74]

The two leading killers of children in the United States are cars and guns. Polluting industries may be dangerous, but they don’t come anywhere near the carnage caused by cars.

Laughable cars

 

[Chernosoth]

I have seen some older people in rapid decline when they couldn't drive anymore. When my neighbor's car needed repairs she couldn't afford, she became dependent on her son and me for rides. Strokes and death soon followed. Becoming unable to drive can affect mental health, unless they live where they don't need cars and never become car dependent.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

I have seen some older people in rapid decline when they couldn't drive anymore. When my neighbor's car needed repairs she couldn't afford, she became dependent on her son and me for rides. Strokes and death soon followed. Becoming unable to drive can affect mental health, unless they live where they don't need cars and never become car dependent.

When I ride the train I regularly see older people who are too disable to drive. Walkable cities are more friendly to the disabled as long as the infrastructure is accessible. Poorly maintained or uneven sidewalks don't just inconvenience the able-bodied, they can form an impassible barrier to people on wheels or with vision problems.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I have seen some older people in rapid decline when they couldn't drive anymore. When my neighbor's car needed repairs she couldn't afford, she became dependent on her son and me for rides. Strokes and death soon followed. Becoming unable to drive can affect mental health, unless they live where they don't need cars and never become car dependent.

Happens a lot. Senior living residences can be an excellent option for folks that reach that age. My mom moved into one in her early 80s and loved it. There was a shuttle service to the local shopping center, planned day trip excursions, social activities, musical performances, and interesting speakers.

 

[dmallord]

My not-so-sly doctor hinted that I might think about looking into a place like that, not just yet, but in case, he said as he reviewed my heart catheter procedure results. Many folks wait until it's, too late to plan, he said.

Perhaps. Still, at eight-six, I'm thinking maybe one should spend a bit of time checking them out. Living alone doesn't have any benefits when you get told to stay home, stay flat and not lift over five pounds for a few weeks, and for damn sure not get in a car and drive. My new car's odometer registered about 1,350 miles in fourteen months - mostly doctor trips.

Hell, that isn't too hard not to do the latter. I've found out how to get groceries delivered, my tenant next door takes care of my grass, the nurses come to check on me, and I've got one of those 'Help I've fallen and can't get up buzzers.'

Every day, my eyes open - it's a good day.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The two leading killers of children in the United States are cars and guns. Polluting industries may be dangerous, but they don’t come anywhere near the carnage caused by cars.

https://abc7news.com/amp/west-porta...an-not-in-police-custody-child-dies/14551317/

An elderly driver in San Francisco killed a family of four waiting at a bus stop. This is what happens when cities prioritize drivers over pedestrians.

 

[MajorRewrite]

https://abc7news.com/amp/west-porta...an-not-in-police-custody-child-dies/14551317/

An elderly driver in San Francisco killed a family of four waiting at a bus stop. This is what happens when cities prioritize drivers over pedestrians.

750 people in Queens since 2014.

 

[Rightguide]

The interstate system has never come close to turning a profit. Private cars are only viable as transportation with massive government subsidies.

It was never supposed to. The information is at your fingertips yet you assert a fantasy as if it were a goal:

The Interstate Highway System was not specifically designed to turn a profit. Instead, its primary purpose was to enhance transportation infrastructure, promote economic growth, and improve connectivity across the United States. Here are some key points:

1. Creation and Purpose:
   • The concept of an Interstate system was first described in a 1939 report to Congress called “Toll Roads and Free Roads.”
   • The report rejected the idea of a toll superhighway network, as revenue from tolls would not adequately support the bonds issued for construction.
   • Instead, the report emphasized the need for a toll-free express highway network to facilitate efficient travel and commerce.
2. Decentralization and State Involvement:
   • Although it was a federal program, the Interstate Highway System was planned, designed, built, and maintained by state highway departments.
   • State involvement allowed for flexibility in tailoring the system to regional needs and conditions.
3. Private Investment and Public Concern:
   • While private companies were involved in building and operating highways in the past, the Interstate System was not primarily driven by profit.
   • Automobile interests, including car companies, tire manufacturers, gas station owners, and suburban developers, aimed to convince state and local governments that roads were a public concern.
   • The focus was on improving transportation efficiency, safety, and national connectivity.

In summary, the Interstate Highway System prioritized public benefit, economic development, and efficient travel over profit generation12.

Learn more​

1highways.dot.gov2history.com3ti.org4transportgeography.org

In addition, the system also had a strategic military value as well as President Eisenhower envisioned.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

It was never supposed to. The information is at your fingertips yet you assert a fantasy as if it were a goal:

The Interstate Highway System was not specifically designed to turn a profit. Instead, its primary purpose was to enhance transportation infrastructure, promote economic growth, and improve connectivity across the United States. Here are some key points:

1. Creation and Purpose:
   • The concept of an Interstate system was first described in a 1939 report to Congress called “Toll Roads and Free Roads.”
   • The report rejected the idea of a toll superhighway network, as revenue from tolls would not adequately support the bonds issued for construction.
   • Instead, the report emphasized the need for a toll-free express highway network to facilitate efficient travel and commerce.
2. Decentralization and State Involvement:
   • Although it was a federal program, the Interstate Highway System was planned, designed, built, and maintained by state highway departments.
   • State involvement allowed for flexibility in tailoring the system to regional needs and conditions.
3. Private Investment and Public Concern:
   • While private companies were involved in building and operating highways in the past, the Interstate System was not primarily driven by profit.
   • Automobile interests, including car companies, tire manufacturers, gas station owners, and suburban developers, aimed to convince state and local governments that roads were a public concern.
   • The focus was on improving transportation efficiency, safety, and national connectivity.

In summary, the Interstate Highway System prioritized public benefit, economic development, and efficient travel over profit generation12.

Learn more​

1highways.dot.gov2history.com3ti.org4transportgeography.org

In addition, the system also had a strategic military value as well as President Eisenhower envisioned.

Apply this reasoning to AMTRAK.

 

[Rightguide]

Apply this reasoning to AMTRAK.

Why?

Amtrak, established under the Congressional Rail Passenger Service Act of 1970, was designed to address the challenges faced by passenger railroads in the United States. Here are the key points:

1. Purpose and Creation:
   • Amtrak aimed to consolidate struggling private passenger railroads into a single, government-owned corporation.
   • By the mid-20th century, rail travel had declined due to the rise of cars and airlines. The federal government’s focus on the interstate highway system and automotive industry further impacted railroads.
   • Amtrak’s goal was to preserve essential passenger routes while shifting the financial burden from rail companies to the government.
2. Initial Challenges:
   • Amtrak faced skepticism and opposition. Some railroad companies hoped for total abolition of passenger rail service, favoring freight travel.
   • Due to lobbying by freight rail CEOs, Amtrak received insufficient subsidies to launch successfully.
   • Many expected Amtrak to fail within a few years of its creation.
3. Profitability and Viability:
   • Throughout its history, Amtrak has never turned a profitable year.
   • However, before the COVID-19 pandemic, it showed greater economic viability. In the 2019 fiscal year, Amtrak lost only $29 million on operations and was on track to become profitable in 20201.
4. Legal Perspective:
   • The 1970 law that created Amtrak did mention operating like a for-profit company, but it was more aspirational than a strict requirement.
   • In 1978, lawmakers recognized this and modified the law, acknowledging that profitability was not the sole objective2.

In summary, Amtrak’s primary purpose was to provide essential passenger rail service, and its financial viability has been challenging despite its crucial role in connecting the nation12.

Learn more​

1econreview.berkeley.edu2bing.com3railpassengers.org4investopedia.com5railroad.net

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Why?

We tolerate the the interstate system running at a loss because it's a public good. The same is true of AMTRAK.